Is universal healthcare a basic right for Thai people?

[halloween]

AFAIK the FHF doesn't charge. The $25 is the cost to them, covered by donations.

BTW cough, cough, $NZ? Please, this is an Australian charity.

I seriously, seriously, seriously doubt the actual cost is only $25. That may be what they ask/advertise for donation purposes which draws in many, many, many $25 donations along with other incoming charity donations...end result is a lot of dollars to cover cataract operations for the poor.

You need to discount the unnecessary add-ons like hospital charges, inner city consultation surgery, the 6 or more staff to man it, the compulsory Jag or Benz to get to work, and the doctors 7 figure income. As frequently explained by Fred himself before his death, the surgery is quite a simple procedure, and the lens worth cents.

[nithisa78]

as we are not included in any scheme I don't care. It will not have any impact on my life

yes it will. even malingers will be impacted. especially you.

[scorecard]

Since the universal healthcare scheme started, people exercising their rights under the scheme feel assured that seeking treatment for their health condition was not going to ruin their family or their children's chances of further education. As a result they are not forced to wait until their condition turns to serious.

This summarizes perfectly why the universal healthcare scheme was so badly needed in Thailand. The government should only take action to make sure the costs do not keep rising and get completely out of control.

The way it works now should be improved though, because too many resources are completely wasted. Patients come to the hospital for a common cold, hickups, not being to fall asleep within 5 minutes, and a basic head ache. They should find a way to keep these people away from the hospital as they only contribute to longer waiting lines.

People with money should also pay a pat of their medical bill. ONly those who cannot afford it should get free medical care. Problem is how you know if someone can afford it as 80% of the country does not pay taxes and therefore the government has no clue if they are billionaires or poor rice farmers with a daily budget of 200 baht for the whole family.

IMHO this is a good summation.

It seems that the whole scheme needs some rethinking and reorganization, and that seems to be standard for most countries which have introduced such schemes.

Seems to me that such a scheme for Thailand (any country) is a good concept but always remembering that Thailand is still a third world country therefore funding it will be difficult but the government of the day must keep trying to: improve the overall scheme, try to push wealthier people away from the scheme, prevent corruption of the funds of the scheme and keep trying to find ways to fund it.

Not easy but very worthwhile.

[elgordo38]

Good to see this now being debated ! It was needed when the 30-Baht scheme was first introduced, IMO.

On the one hand, free public health-care has the proven potential to absorb vast sums of money, as seen in many other countries with some form of social medicine. And there will always be some treatments/medicines which are too expensive to be provided. So there will always be a place for private-medicine, for those who can afford it.

On the other hand the public have to be willing to pay for what they get, whether by increased VAT or income-tax, or some sort of medical-insurance contributions. I suspect this may be difficult to introduce. But TANSTAAFL !

Whatever the future, the money raised needs to be spent efficiently,& effectively so that it generates the greatest possible benefit to the greatest number of people.

A healthy population is a productive one. Quote A group of doctors has warned that if the government does not abandon the project and opts for a co-payment system soon, the country will succumb unquote. Wow a doctor, economist and accountant all rolled into one. I did not know that they taught all 3 in medical schools in Thailand or is this part of the ruling elite speaking. Of course with a co-payment scheme they would no doubt get a big increase in wages.

[elgordo38]

A few months ago, wifey takes a phone call, then announces that we should go to the hospital because dad has just undergone eye surgery (cataracts).

I duly load my pockets with thousand baht notes, and off we go.

What a pleasant surprise: Dad can see again, and it cost nothing.

Wifey's folks are dirt poor. This scheme is good. The problem is the civil servants who abuse it because they extend it to their wider family.

Yes a very good outcome. Did he have to queue up for this operation for years? My g/f's mother had this operation and if she waited in queue for God knows how long it was free. If she wanted it now it was 20,000 bahts in a public hospital. The funny part is that my hospital system in my home country would only pay 8,000 bahts to a doctor to perform a basic cataract surgery.

[FangFerang]

The unanswered question, of course is...how do you determine someone's income level in a country where even the leaders do have to disclose their wealth?

Further -- who is going to check finances? Who is going to disclose said finances? And how will the co-pay be structured?

I honestly think it is the physicians way of bringing back the tiered pricing scheme -- your sickness and it's seriousness determine what you pay. That killed people, and left many destitute.

The good old days are here again!

[diehard60]

Its better to provide health service,than buy Subs or other

war toys.

regards Worgeordie

RIGHT ON BROTHER.

[nithisa78]

Michigan doctor faces 175 years for cancer drug fraud

[elgordo38]

a basic human right along with freedom of speech

Like world wide currencies these two mentioned above are also in a race to the bottom. I sit here in my retirement years(I thank the Lord daily for my present position in life) and wonder what the H has gone wrong. The Uber rich are always trying through their politician allies to squeeze more out of the poor and downtrodden. You take freedom of speech in Spain it is costly. They have a new gag law there signed in March of this year. In May 2011 demonstrators took over the main square in Madrid . They were mostly young people that were protesting for a better way of life. Under the new gag law these same protesters today can be fined up to yes 600,000 Euros and no its not a typo. 600 Euro's for insulting a police officer( I would definitely loose money). 30,000 Euros for spreading damaging photo's of police officers (clubbing people I guess) The 600,000 Euro fine covers is for taking part in "illegal" demonstrations outside of Parliament and other sensitive areas(up to government interpretation). How do you like them apples. Brace yourselves this opens a new can of worms with many governments on the sidelines watching. Governments now are in a monkey see monkey do mode. This could be coming to a country near you. Just another weapon to club and control the masses pleading for justice. What the H there is none.

[elgordo38]

A few months ago, wifey takes a phone call, then announces that we should go to the hospital because dad has just undergone eye surgery (cataracts).

I duly load my pockets with thousand baht notes, and off we go.

What a pleasant surprise: Dad can see again, and it cost nothing.

Wifey's folks are dirt poor. This scheme is good. The problem is the civil servants who abuse it because they extend it to their wider family.

You would have needed about Bt60-70K to pay for cataract surgery of both eyes (approx Bt35K/around 1,050 USD per eye) at a govt hospital as I priced it out at two govt hospitals for the MIL.

Initially the Thai wife and I took the MIL to a couple of govt hospitals highly recommended by other Thais for eye problems but the MIL was not assigned to these hospitals for her 30 baht coverage. These two govt hospitals would indeed to the cataracts surgery but she would have to pay since she was assigned to another govt hospital under the 30 baht program. That's when we asked what the cost would be. But at the govt hospital she is assigned to they would do it for free under the 30 baht program...and the MIL and family found out her assigned govt hospital did indeed have good cataract surgery capability...could get it done for free there and went for several evaluations/visits over several weeks to have her vision fully checked. Turned out she didn't really need/get cataract surgery as the vision problem was predominately being caused by a retina problem and not so much by the minor cataracts she has.

Yeap, Bt60-70K total price for both eyes at a govt hospital...I bet a Thai private hospital would charge much, much more.

Yes a friend of mine just had it done at Chiang Mai Ram. For just one eye 50,000 bahts(Back in March no doubt the price has increased since then) for a basic mono lense implant. He had problems after the operation with his eye drying out. I seem to understand that you can get both eyes done in a public hospital for that amount plus queues and time waiting for appointments.

[elgordo38]

And whose going to pay for this free health care? wages are too low to collect any taxes to pay for it.

Seems I remember a rich lady in the United States claim (on her way to jail) "The rich do not pay taxes only the poor pay" how true.

[elgordo38]

A few months ago, wifey takes a phone call, then announces that we should go to the hospital because dad has just undergone eye surgery (cataracts).

I duly load my pockets with thousand baht notes, and off we go.

What a pleasant surprise: Dad can see again, and it cost nothing.

Wifey's folks are dirt poor. This scheme is good. The problem is the civil servants who abuse it because they extend it to their wider family.

You would have needed about Bt60-70K to pay for cataract surgery of both eyes (approx Bt35K/around 1,050 USD per eye) at a govt hospital as I priced it out at two govt hospitals for the MIL.

Initially the Thai wife and I took the MIL to a couple of govt hospitals highly recommended by other Thais for eye problems but the MIL was not assigned to these hospitals for her 30 baht coverage. These two govt hospitals would indeed to the cataracts surgery but she would have to pay since she was assigned to another govt hospital under the 30 baht program. That's when we asked what the cost would be. But at the govt hospital she is assigned to they would do it for free under the 30 baht program...and the MIL and family found out her assigned govt hospital did indeed have good cataract surgery capability...could get it done for free there and went for several evaluations/visits over several weeks to have her vision fully checked. Turned out she didn't really need/get cataract surgery as the vision problem was predominately being caused by a retina problem and not so much by the minor cataracts she has.

Yeap, Bt60-70K total price for both eyes at a govt hospital...I bet a Thai private hospital would charge much, much more.

I find that extraordinarily high. Fred Hollows pioneered a very cost-effective way to do quick and inexpensive cataract surgery for NZ $25 per eye. The Fred Hollows Foundation has been restoring sight in poor countries around the world for decades because it is so cheap and thus very easy to fund from donations.

...

Maybe the Fred Hollows Foundation should setup shop in Thailand. But comparing prices charged by charity type organizations such as the Fred Hollows Foundation is not indicative of prices that are charged at govt and private hospital anywhere.

According to this PeoplesPledge website the average cost per eye for a cataract operation in Oz is $2000-$2500...assuming they are talking Australian dollars that is approx Bt50-62K per eye...Bt100K-124K for both eyes...twice what you would pay in Thailand at a govt hospital.

My provincial health plan in my home country will only pay a doctor $397.97 to do the operation well according to my insurer anyways. My insurer (generous buggars that they are) pay 4 times this amount and it still does not pay the full cost of the operation here in Thailand.

[dageurreotype]

Is universal healthcare a basic right for Thai people?

No. It's a basic right for ALL people everywhere. And before the 'who's going to pay for it's' come along, open your eyes and see where all the world's resources are going. And populace are not a priority.

[GarryP]

My wife was treated over the space of 4-5 years for cancer, including surgery and radiotherapy under the universal healthcare system. She did not pay anything apart from buying certain medicines not on the national drug list. She was a housewife with no income. I offered to pay for private hospital treatment but she refused stating that we were saving to buy a house and that government hospital care was good enough for her. The hospital she was covered by in the universal health care scheme was upcountry but they referred her to a gov't hospital in Bangkok, where she was treated. Eventually we bought the house and her coverage was officially moved permanently to BKK.

Should she have gone private? Probably. We could afford it. Eventually, the last two weeks of her life were spent in a private hospital which cost more than her 4 years treatment in a gov't hospital. Something is really screwed up there. FWIW, the treatment offered in her case would have been the same in a private hospital just less waiting around, more attention by the nurses and nicer rooms.

[wabothai]

as we are not included in any scheme I don't care. It will not have any impact on my life

untill you get real sick

[wabothai]

universal health care only work in "real" democracies, and even there it fails many times. (US?)

Either you tax people for it or make it free.

In Thailand both cases don't work. No money from the government (other than subs) and no adequate tax system. (taxes over 9000 baht?)

I have no idea what the solution may be other than continuing the way they are doing things now.

[Torrens54]

And what about the long suffering FERANG?

There was a scheme that required payment of an Annual Premium and then 30 Baht per visit and 30 Baht per Pharmacy Script.

Worked very well for ONE YEAR then the General's mob cut it out.

I'd be more than happy to pay a higher premium and higher cost per visit etc., but as it is, FERANG can either Pay Up Big Time, go home or croak.

Maybe if all the Ferang either Go Home or Croak, the Government might come to the conclusion that the money contributed to the Thai economy on a weekly basis kept it from going Bankrupt?

[Thai at Heart]

as we are not included in any scheme I don't care. It will not have any impact on my life

untill you get real sick

Or anyone in the extended family. This universal coverage is a true wonder.

[Keesters]

I foresee that healthcare costs for Thais will increase tremendously over the years. Diabetes, heart diseases, traffic accident injuries, etc all being on the increase. If Thailand wants to reduce its costs then EDUCATE the people on what and how much to eat, exercise, and drive properly. Treat the cause not the result.

[Toknarok]

Those of us who can remember the days prior the 30 baht scheme I'm sure would dread the scrapping of the scheme. Back to the good old days of having to borrow from money lenders to pay hospital bills. The household debt problem in this Country is bad enough as it is. Back would come the 'quacks' with their phony medcines and their dirty hypodermic syringes.

Scrapping this scheme would IMO lead to serious political unrest.

Imcidentally my mother in law was recently in hospital. She had walked through an area which unbeknown to her had recently been sprayed with paraquat herbicide and her leg was seriously poisoned. She spent 4 days in ICU in Buriram Hospital and then two weeks being treated in a general ward. Treatments, medications, ambulance transfers etc didn't cost one satang.

[Pib]

Those of us who can remember the days prior the 30 baht scheme I'm sure would dread the scrapping of the scheme. Back to the good old days of having to borrow from money lenders to pay hospital bills. The household debt problem in this Country is bad enough as it is. Back would come the 'quacks' with their phony medcines and their dirty hypodermic syringes.

Scrapping this scheme would IMO lead to serious political unrest.

Imcidentally my mother in law was recently in hospital. She had walked through an area which unbeknown to her had recently been sprayed with paraquat herbicide and her leg was seriously poisoned. She spent 4 days in ICU in Buriram Hospital and then two weeks being treated in a general ward. Treatments, medications, ambulance transfers etc didn't cost one satang.

I sure know my Thai in-laws and friends consider the 30 baht universal health care as the most important benefit they have. Especially those who so vividly remember the pre-2001 days when there was no 30 baht program. No more borrowing from loan shocks to pay medical bills, no more just staying at home to get sick and die because you can't afford medical care, etc.

Yeap, the 30 baht program is a highly valued benefit among Thai's....sure they may bitch and moan about long wait times but IMO it would indeed cause great political unrest if the gov tried to radically change it (provide a lot less) or cancel it. Yeap, the 30 baht program is now a political 3d rail not to be touched or only to be touched with a long non-conductive pole to see what happens.