This backdoor spouse visa scheme for UK can't be legal?

[Jay Sata]

This visa company seems to be pitching at the Indian and Pakistani community and not those wanting to bring a Thai spouse to the UK.

Reading between the lines they arrange 'self employment' in Dublin and they supply documentation to back it up.

All run from a room above a shop in Rochdale via a limited company.

More here from their site.

We also:

Provide employment for the British Citizen in the EEA state for the period of up to 3 months to comply with regulation 9 or

Help you set up a business providing services in the EEA state to comply with regulation 9 as self-employed.

£5999 Note: This price includes the rent in the EEA state until your return.

Total cost £7255 with a reminder this could increase by 50%

They claim to put the spouse up in private rented accomodation.

I have emailed the site address to a couple of people who have pm'd me but with my opinion it is a scam.

Not going to put the site address up here as it may breach forum rules.

I am aware of the rules regarding Surinder Singh but it appears this scheme is engineered to get around the rules. see below.

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/surinder-singh

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Donutz]

I thought the OP is/was familiar with the SS route? If this particular agent is legit is an other matter but the basic idea is legally sound.

It appears that if you are an asylum seeker or from one of the Indian or African states etc and have a relative in the UK you are accepted for immigration to the UK . However if you have been a UK citizen all your life with a British ancestory , have paid taxes and N.I. etc all of your working life, it means nothing if you do not meet the financial requirements that you stated above . How were these monetary figures agreed and imposed . The majority of UK pensioners come nowhere near this income and many married retired couples are expected to live on a state pension of around £10,000 .

I can understand the case that e.g. an 80 year old guy wants to bring his 25 year lady to the UK as when he dies she would be dependent on the state but a couple aged 50 and 40 ish , well is does not make sense . The laws could easily be changed to cater for this . As the immigration rules stand at the moment I believe they need to be challenged big time . The UK immigration system as we all know is in a real mess . If they were a private enterprise the top tier of management would all had been sacked . They are an embarrassment to the nation

The UK immigration rules apply to all, it isn't any harder or easier for a 'true' UK citizen then say Nigerian citizen living in the UK to get their family to the UK (under the same visa or immigration category ofcourse). Sounds like UKIP nonsense to me.. Perhaps confusing asylum seekers with regular migration? Not that asylumseekers are given a free pass (automatic residency etc.), they too are sorted out between genuine refugees and economic immigrants (those are not allowed to stay).

such an amazing country the u.k. that insists on positive descrimination towards its own subjects but its ok to be a romanian street beggar..no problems...

All EU/EEA citizens have freedom to visit,move or live elsewhere in the EU/EEA but only aslong as they are not an unreasonable burden to the state which it concerns.

And you probably meant (negative) discrimination against it's own subjects, unless the UK gives UK nationals a much more smooth right then EU citizens and their family (which isn't the case or there would be no SS route).

[whiterussian]

Wonder if there's a stream of Rochdale bachelors going to Dublin to meet (for the first time) their brides-to-be

Edited July 8, 2015 by whiterussian

[gandalf12]

From what I read here everyone has good points to make. I think we just hav to accept that England is a good country if you are not British. If you are it is impossible to do just about anything

[Ghostnigel]

What is te problem with going to the British Embassy and getting a visa for your wife? I have done it and I had no problem. Just produce the required documentation and apply. I dont see why there is this discussion

This is not a case of just obtaining a visa for one's spouse to VISIT the UK, this appears to be a way that one can (eventually) return to the UK with ones spouse and live there not just visit.

Current UK immigration requirements for returning to the UK with your spouse to live are that you must have £63,000 in the Bank or an income of £19,000 a year. So it is not just a case of producing the required doccumentation.

I don't comply with either of the financial requirements, yet have a home in the UK currently for sale at £600,000 which is free from any tie, yet I stll can not live in the country of my birth with my chosen life partner, a clear breach of my human rights to a fanily life.

Sell your 600,000 pound house, buy a 500,000 pound house, then you will have both....simples, its not like you would be 'slumming' it in a house worth half a mill.......

This misses the fundamental point - why should he have to do that to "live in the country of his birth with his chosen partner"? The system is just flawed.

I agree with you, the system is totally flawed. I gave up the UK when after being married for 18 years I was told that didnt count and we would hav to spend 3 years minimum in the uk. As I pointed out my company always sent me with my family so it was impossible without quitting my job to do that. They said it is the law but it isnt it is a guideline. They change the rules to suit themselves, very bad but get used to it you will need to. Before Hong Kong was returned to China the British Emmbassy in Hong Kong was putting on the TV (I was there at the time) for Hong Kong Chinese to register for their British passport. But if you are British you will get nothing.

A friend of mine is South African and his wife is Spanish. They have two 14 year old children and never during that time has he been allowed to take his family to SA to let his family meet them. So yes the UK is bad in looking after its own but there are others just as bad.

We ALL know the system is flawed, a d we are all pissed off about it....but my scenario was to get AROUND the flawed system, of which we have no control over. We will not change a thing while we are in the EU, and or, signed up to the ridiculous Human Rights Treaty. I look back at the UK and think "what a shambles that place is", but it still annoys me when they take the piss out of their own citizens, but treat assylum seekers better than people who have fought for their country.....

[7by7]

When I got my wifes visa to live there she had a 2 year visa. Later I wrote to the Home Office and told them to put in a full residency visa which they did.

If the rule is now a job paying 19,000 or more a year that is not a high paying job, it is about 1,600 month before taxes.

A friend of mine has, like me, a thai wife. He took them over for a holiday on a 6 month visa and after a lot of discussion converted it upwards. I can understand if you are asking from day 1 for a residence visa. That is the hard way of doing things. Try for a 2 year visa as the spouse of a British national and see what they say.

The rules changed w.e.f. 9th July 2012. Prior to that spouse settlement visas were valid for 27 months and after living in the UK for 24 months one applied for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

Now they are valid for 33 months and after living in the UK for at least 30 months one applies for Further Leave to Remain. This is valid for 30 months and at the end of that one applies for ILR. Making a minimum of 5 years residence in total to obtain ILR.

Also, prior to 9th July 2012 the financial requirement was that the immigrant spouse must be supported without recourse to public funds. There was no fixed minimum income requirement, but case law suggested that it should be the same as the income support level for a British family of the same size, currently £114.85 p.w. (£5972.20 p.a.) for a couple both over 18. This was net income, after housing costs, debt repayments etc..

The changes which came into effect on 9th July 2012 introduced the financial requirement as we know it today; a minimum income of £18,600 p.a.

One of the absurd aspects being it is gross income and takes no account of any financial commitments the sponsor may have. So a sponsor who earns £18,600 p.a. but has a mortgage and other debt repayments of £10,000 p.a. meets the requirement. A sponsor who earns £18,599 p.a., has paid off his mortgage and has no other debts etc. doesn't!

The financial requirement can instead be met by cash savings, for a spouse a minimum of £62,500; or a combination of income and cash savings.

The minimum figures are higher if children are applying as well; but not if those children are British, whether dual nationals or not, and therefore do not need a visa or leave to remain to enter or live in the UK.

I have no idea how your friend managed to convert his wife's visit visa into settlement whilst in the UK. For as long as I have taken an interest in UK immigration, well over 10 years, this has been impossible. If a visitor wishes to apply for UK settlement they have to return to their country of residence and apply there.

Perhaps you can ask your friend how he managed it? I'm sure there are members here who would like to do the same.

[7by7]

With respect, the title of this topic is a bit misleading.

The Surinder Singh route is not a backdoor method of obtaining a spouse visa; it is a right enjoyed by any EEA national who has been living in another EEA state with his/her non EEA national family members whilst exercising an economic treaty right and now wishes to return to his home state with his/her family.

It is perfectly legal.

What may be dubious is the service offered by this agency.

There is, of course, nothing illegal about one company acting as an accommodation agency, an employment agency and a visa agency; at least in the UK, I don't know about Ireland.

However, whilst I don't know if in the UK accommodation and employment agencies need to be registered with a regulatory body, visa agencies do.

Anyone who acts as an immigration advisor in the UK must either be registered with the OISC or a member of a professional legal body such as the Law Society of England and Wales.

Whether a similar regulatory regime exists in Ireland, I don't know but the OP suggests this company is in the UK.

So the first question is whether or not this company is so registered.

Secondly, as mentioned earlier by other posters, following the Surinder Singh route is not as straightforward as some think; conditions have to be met.

From Free Movement

The most important change since Surinder Singh itself is the new case of O and B v The Netherlands Case C-456/12, handed down by the Grand Chamber of the Court of the European Union on 12 March 2014. Without much mentioning Surinder Singh, the judgment completely re-writes the legal basis of the earlier case and sets out important and binding new guidance.......

Key points;

1. A residence period of at least three months is required (para 54)

2. Weekend visits and holidays do not count as residence for this purpose (para 59)

3. Any citizen of the Union can potentially benefit from this right, not just workers and the self employed (references to Article 7 of Citizens Directive 2004/38 , e.g. para 56, and to Article 21 of the TFEU, e.g. para 54)

4. During the period of residence family life must have been “created or strengthened” (para 51)

5. Abuse is impermissible (para 58)

The UK has yet to implement point 3 and still insist that the EEA national has been working in the other EEA state.

But I think that the service offered by this company would be viewed as abuse of the system and so any applications from their clients be refused under point 5.

For the UKVI guidance, see Apply for an EEA family permit; 6. Surinder Singh.

[Jay Sata]

When I got my wifes visa to live there she had a 2 year visa. Later I wrote to the Home Office and told them to put in a full residency visa which they did.

If the rule is now a job paying 19,000 or more a year that is not a high paying job, it is about 1,600 month before taxes.

A friend of mine has, like me, a thai wife. He took them over for a holiday on a 6 month visa and after a lot of discussion converted it upwards. I can understand if you are asking from day 1 for a residence visa. That is the hard way of doing things. Try for a 2 year visa as the spouse of a British national and see what they say.

The rules changed w.e.f. 9th July 2012. Prior to that spouse settlement visas were valid for 27 months and after living in the UK for 24 months one applied for Indefinite Leave to Remain.

Now they are valid for 33 months and after living in the UK for at least 30 months one applies for Further Leave to Remain. This is valid for 30 months and at the end of that one applies for ILR. Making a minimum of 5 years residence in total to obtain ILR.

Also, prior to 9th July 2012 the financial requirement was that the immigrant spouse must be supported without recourse to public funds. There was no fixed minimum income requirement, but case law suggested that it should be the same as the income support level for a British family of the same size, currently £114.85 p.w. (£5972.20 p.a.) for a couple both over 18. This was net income, after housing costs, debt repayments etc..

The changes which came into effect on 9th July 2012 introduced the financial requirement as we know it today; a minimum income of £18,600 p.a.

One of the absurd aspects being it is gross income and takes no account of any financial commitments the sponsor may have. So a sponsor who earns £18,600 p.a. but has a mortgage and other debt repayments of £10,000 p.a. meets the requirement. A sponsor who earns £18,599 p.a., has paid off his mortgage and has no other debts etc. doesn't!

The financial requirement can instead be met by cash savings, for a spouse a minimum of £62,500; or a combination of income and cash savings.

The minimum figures are higher if children are applying as well; but not if those children are British, whether dual nationals or not, and therefore do not need a visa or leave to remain to enter or live in the UK.

I have no idea how your friend managed to convert his wife's visit visa into settlement whilst in the UK. For as long as I have taken an interest in UK immigration, well over 10 years, this has been impossible. If a visitor wishes to apply for UK settlement they have to return to their country of residence and apply there.

Perhaps you can ask your friend how he managed it? I'm sure there are members here who would like to do the same.

It was possible for a spouse to enter the UK on a C six month visitor visa in the year 2000 and apply for leave to remain.

This was usually for one year after which you could apply for ILR.

[7by7]

Thank you, I was unaware of that; but it is certainly not possible now. Just for information and to satisfy my curiosity, any idea when the rules changed?

Indeed, back then a spouse settlement visa was valid for 12 months after which one applied for ILR; and the ILR application was free.

Rather, as explained to me by an ECO at the Bangkok embassy when my wife and step daughter applied for settlement in November 2000 (you could talk to them in those days), the fee for ILR was included in the fee for the initial visa.

But when LTR fees were introduced by Blair the initial visa fee was not reduced!

[Jay Sata]

With respect, the title of this topic is a bit misleading.

The Surinder Singh route is not a backdoor method of obtaining a spouse visa; it is a right enjoyed by any EEA national who has been living in another EEA state with his/her non EEA national family members whilst exercising an economic treaty right and now wishes to return to his home state with his/her family.

It is perfectly legal.

What may be dubious is the service offered by this agency.

There is, of course, nothing illegal about one company acting as an accommodation agency, an employment agency and a visa agency; at least in the UK, I don't know about Ireland.

However, whilst I don't know if in the UK accommodation and employment agencies need to be registered with a regulatory body, visa agencies do.

Anyone who acts as an immigration advisor in the UK must either be registered with the OISC or a member of a professional legal body such as the Law Society of England and Wales.

Whether a similar regulatory regime exists in Ireland, I don't know but the OP suggests this company is in the UK.

So the first question is whether or not this company is so registered.

Secondly, as mentioned earlier by other posters, following the Surinder Singh route is not as straightforward as some think; conditions have to be met.

From Free Movement

The most important change since Surinder Singh itself is the new case of O and B v The Netherlands Case C-456/12, handed down by the Grand Chamber of the Court of the European Union on 12 March 2014. Without much mentioning Surinder Singh, the judgment completely re-writes the legal basis of the earlier case and sets out important and binding new guidance.......

Key points;

1. A residence period of at least three months is required (para 54)

2. Weekend visits and holidays do not count as residence for this purpose (para 59)

3. Any citizen of the Union can potentially benefit from this right, not just workers and the self employed (references to Article 7 of Citizens Directive 2004/38 , e.g. para 56, and to Article 21 of the TFEU, e.g. para 54)

4. During the period of residence family life must have been created or strengthened (para 51)

5. Abuse is impermissible (para 58)

The UK has yet to implement point 3 and still insist that the EEA national has been working in the other EEA state.

But I think that the service offered by this company would be viewed as abuse of the system and so any applications from their clients be refused under point 5.

For the UKVI guidance, see Apply for an EEA family permit; 6. Surinder Singh.

The firm was only registered in March 2015 and has one director. The website claims it operates under the supervision of Saeeda Rashid but does not show any licensing details.

[Jay Sata]

Thank you, I was unaware of that; but it is certainly not possible now. Just for information and to satisfy my curiosity, any idea when the rules changed?

Indeed, back then a spouse settlement visa was valid for 12 months after which one applied for ILR; and the ILR application was free.

Rather, as explained to me by an ECO at the Bangkok embassy when my wife and step daughter applied for settlement in November 2000 (you could talk to them in those days), the fee for ILR was included in the fee for the initial visa.

But when LTR fees were introduced by Blair the initial visa fee was not reduced!

Sorry I don't know when the rules changed. The last time I know of someone using the visitor visa and converting to LTR because of marriage was mid 2001.

[a99az]

Hi Jay,

In answer to your post this is I think a company who are doing some leg work for couples who want to enter the UK. It looks like the EU route but you do not need to use them as it is very straight forward to do it oneself. It is free and as I said relatively simple however the UK are starting to view the EU route differently. Where before you only need to become resident in any EU country until your Thai wife had her EU residents card (about 12 weeks) then get a Family Visa (free) to the UK.

Now the UK want to try to apply the rule differently, they want you the British subject to now be resident in the EU longer (there is talk of 6 months ) they would also want to see that the British subject was settled there in the full sense i.e. home bank etc they call it centre of life they even expect that you would be involved in charity work too. You should not own a property in the UK or have a Bank in the UK.

The EU court through this out and not surprisingly. To start with there is nothing in law to prevent a foreign person owing a property in the UK or having a bank account there so why should any British person who is working away in Europe?

What ever the fact is the EU route is alive and well but you do need to get your skates on as there are changes in the air and I feel it won't take long before they come into force.

I am so glad we did it back in 2012 now we can relax my wife can stay now as long as she wants she only has to renew her residents card every 5 years.

[7by7]

<snip>

Anyone who acts as an immigration advisor in the UK must either be registered with the OISC or a member of a professional legal body such as the Law Society of England and Wales.

The firm was only registered in March 2015 and has one director. The website claims it operates under the supervision of Saeeda Rashid but does not show any licensing details.

As I understand it, any OISC registered advisor should say such on their website and display the OISC logo.

You can also see if the company is on the register of advisors; Mr. Rashid isn't.

But if he's a solicitor and so a member of the Law Society, or other professional legal body, he doesn't need to be.

[Jay Sata]

The problem is that a company set up like this is driving a horse and cart through what is a genuine legal right.

I am sure some of you have had this google advert appear over the last week.

As I understand it you need to do a lot more than just rent a house in Ireland and start self employment.

You need to genuinely prove you have moved the centre of your life to another EU country?

see https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/294755/FOI_30270_-_Annex_B_-_Notice_02-2014_-_Surinder_Singh_-_redacted.pdf

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Jay Sata]

<snip>

Anyone who acts as an immigration advisor in the UK must either be registered with the OISC or a member of a professional legal body such as the Law Society of England and Wales.

The firm was only registered in March 2015 and has one director. The website claims it operates under the supervision of Saeeda Rashid but does not show any licensing details.

As I understand it, any OISC registered advisor should say such on their website and display the OISC logo.

You can also see if the company is on the register of advisors; Mr. Rashid isn't.

But if he's a solicitor and so a member of the Law Society, or other professional legal body, he doesn't need to be.

It appears he is.

I take it you have seen the website?

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jay Sata

[teatree]

Ireland is not in the UK.

The UK consists of 4 different countries.

England

Scotland

Wales

Northern Ireland

Nortern Ireland and Ireland are 2 seperate countries.

A visa for Ireland does not allow you to enter the UK.

If an EU national is moving from one member state to another, they have the right to bring their non EU spouse and children with them under an EU treaty.

The person attempting to get to their home country via this route has to register, live and work in an EU country other than their own to develop a base. This person then moves to live in their home country. The right given to EU members to be entitled to live with their family comes into force and the non EU national cannot be denied entry (at least in theory and by EU/UK law).

Doing this avoids the requirements of having to have a UK job for at least 6 months earning over 18,000 GBP p.a.

[bobrussell]

This website is not difficult to find!

It indicates that it is accredited to the Law Society (immigration & Asylum) £5000 or £6000 depending on the service you want!

I cannot see this as anything other than a solicitor using the letter of the law and not the spirit. He gets a tidy sum up front! £1000 up front, £750 when the Irish visa is approved, £1750 when accommodation is provided, £1500 when employment starts and a tiny £500 on arrival with spouse in the UK.

If at any time anything is refused they have done very well out of it and if the final EEA Family permit is refused the applicant has lost £4500 at least! Guess who is guaranteed to have a smile on his face at all times?

The Law Society should control these clowns!!

[Jay Sata]

This website is not difficult to find!

It indicates that it is accredited to the Law Society (immigration & Asylum) £5000 or £6000 depending on the service you want!

I cannot see this as anything other than a solicitor using the letter of the law and not the spirit. He gets a tidy sum up front! £1000 up front, £750 when the Irish visa is approved, £1750 when accommodation is provided, £1500 when employment starts and a tiny £500 on arrival with spouse in the UK.

If at any time anything is refused they have done very well out of it and if the final EEA Family permit is refused the applicant has lost £4500 at least! Guess who is guaranteed to have a smile on his face at all times?

The Law Society should control these clowns!!

Agreed.

Reading between the lines the accomodation etc is contrived.

The scheme seems to be aimed at a certain sector of the community and not those with Thai spouses.

However this abuse could lead to further tightening of the rules or time scale in which someone needs to establish a life in an EU country prior to obtaining entry to the UK.

[bobrussell]

Makes no difference who the scheme is aimed at. It only works if one partner is British and one is non-EU!

It is a scheme with the sole purpose of by-passing normal settlement rules and therefore likely to be fraudulent (In my non-qualified opinion!).

[Jay Sata]

Makes no difference who the scheme is aimed at. It only works if one partner is British and one is non-EU!

It is a scheme with the sole purpose of by-passing normal settlement rules and therefore likely to be fraudulent (In my non-qualified opinion!).

It certainly seems so. One legal point that emerges is that this is an scheme where a third party,in this case the operators of the visa service,are in control and organise housing and employment.

If you read their terms and conditions the individual has to comply with rules on their accomodation and is not free to make their own arrangments.

[Bench499d]

Ireland is not in the UK.

The UK consists of 4 different countries.

England

Scotland

Wales

Northern Ireland

Nortern Ireland and Ireland are 2 seperate countries.

A visa for Ireland does not allow you to enter the UK.

Of course once in the Republic it is a simple matter of crossing the border into NI. Might be illegal but they'd be in the UK and would doubtless disappear.

Alternatively, one could also take the time to become an Irish citizen at which point they could migrate to the UK and have pretty much the same rights as a British citizen (these rights pre-date the EU).

[Jay Sata]

Just to clear up one point I am familiar with the Surinder Singh route and the rules that govern it which have been proved via the courts to be perfectly legal.

I raised this topic simply because it appears this company has engineered a scheme that will generate good income by manipulating the rules.

They sort out employment,accomodation and all the paperwork.

It appears to be a carousel where what you pay in over the three months becomes your income on paper?

It also absolves an applicant from any language tests?

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jay Sata

[wooloomooloo]

I raised this topic simply because it appears this company has engineered a scheme that will generate good income by manipulating the rules.

They sort out employment,accomodation and all the paperwork.

I'm not buying your argument. Mr Rashid is providing / facilitating a service and not necessarily a visa service, though he can obviously assist along the way. Not so far removed than that of some two bit agent touting outside Trendy Building.

The rules are so lax that anyone can safely provide a legal and legitimate service to the masses under the current rules and statues. You pay your money and you take your choice.

Not sure what the point of this thread is. My personal opinion is that it would appear more than slightly vexatious. You don't like it but you can't do anything about it. Sorry.

[misterphil]

Ireland is not in the UK.

The UK consists of 4 different countries.

England

Scotland

Wales

Northern Ireland

Nortern Ireland and Ireland are 2 seperate countries.

A visa for Ireland does not allow you to enter the UK.

If an EU national is moving from one member state to another, they have the right to bring their non EU spouse and children with them under an EU treaty.

The person attempting to get to their home country via this route has to register, live and work in an EU country other than their own to develop a base. This person then moves to live in their home country. The right given to EU members to be entitled to live with their family comes into force and the non EU national cannot be denied entry (at least in theory and by EU/UK law).

Doing this avoids the requirements of having to have a UK job for at least 6 months earning over 18,000 GBP p.a.

Read the OP's Subject again then start to put your brain in to gear before your fingers on the keyboard.

"This backdoor spouse visa scheme for UK can't be legal?"

He thinks he can take his Thai girl to the UK via Ireland.

[Jonathon]

Ghostnigel:

"We ALL know the system is flawed, a d we are all pissed off about it....but my scenario was to get AROUND the flawed system, of which we have no control over. We will not change a thing while we are in the EU, and or, signed up to the ridiculous Human Rights Treaty. I look back at the UK and think "what a shambles that place is", but it still annoys me when they take the piss out of their own citizens, but treat assylum seekers better than people who have fought for their country...."

Absolutely spot on, our own governemtn is our worst enemy. The rules are immoral and unreasonable for a native Brit and his spouse. It should be an unalienable right with, of course, the necessary checks to keep out those primarily of non British descent who manage to abuse it. Do what is right by your conscience and good luck.

[jinners]

What is te problem with going to the British Embassy and getting a visa for your wife? I have done it and I had no problem. Just produce the required documentation and apply. I dont see why there is this discussion

Just curious, what century did you last use that method?

[jinners]

I raised this topic simply because it appears this company has engineered a scheme that will generate good income by manipulating the rules.

They sort out employment,accomodation and all the paperwork.

I'm not buying your argument. Mr Rashid is providing / facilitating a service and not necessarily a visa service, though he can obviously assist along the way. Not so far removed than that of some two bit agent touting outside Trendy Building.

The rules are so lax that anyone can safely provide a legal and legitimate service to the masses under the current rules and statues. You pay your money and you take your choice.

Not sure what the point of this thread is. My personal opinion is that it would appear more than slightly vexatious. You don't like it but you can't do anything about it. Sorry.

'The rules are so lax that anyone can safely provide a legal and legitimate service to the masses under the current rules and statues. You pay your money and you take your choice.'

Having been in the middle of these "lax rules" for the last 3 + months, over a 1000 quid paid out. This after having met every single requirement and more, I can confirm the rules are anything but and the "officers" responsible will find any possible fictitious gap to utter a refusal.

[theoldgit]

This Forum is designed to assist those making visa applications to countries outside of Thailand by allowing questions to be asked and meaningful answers to be given.

Whilst I'm not criticising Jay Sata for starting this thread, the "Surinder Singh route" is perfectly legal and has been discussed numerous times before.

This particular thread has run its course and it's now time to draw a line under it.

If any member has questions on their own application using this method then please feel free to start a new thread.

Thank you