The Islamization of Thailand

[samran]

Water is Halal. Better stop drinking that too. Actually, do us a favour and be strict on that one!

As for price inflation, you understand nothing about economics clearly. But that is nothing unusual with the anti-halal protagonists.

Two things, just because there is an added cost, doesn't mean you can pass it through to consumer (hint: look up elasticity of demand).

Secondly, you open a product up to a larger market, who buy more of your stuff, the marginal cost of producing that product decreases (hint, look up economies of scale).

All your arguments are are fodder for the feeble minded.

Ridiculous.

Firstly, halal slaughtered meat is a far cry from a religious group co-opting an essential requirement. The inhumane slaughter of the animal combined with the demand that group makes that they get paid to certify all meats that are sold on the threat of violence should be enough to turn any rational person's stomach.

Let's put it another way; if the Jews said they would start blowing things up unless everything was certified kosher, would you be cool with that?

R.E. the economic impact, do you actually believe that a business would really "eat" the added cost when they could easily pass it along to the customer? Would you?

More than 50% (up to 90% I believe) of the beef slaughtered in Australia is certified Halal. It meets Australian standards of slaughter, which are quite rigorous. I don't object to a quick prayer being said as the meat is slaughtered. It seems only the keyboard warriors are scared of some jiggery pokery prayer being said at the time of death.

As for blowing things up? Who said that? If I'm a firm and I can open my product up to 100's of million more customers...then I'm going to do it. None of this stuff is led by bomb threats. Its good business sense. Obviously helps starve off the non-halal ingrates as well. A win win as far as I'm concerned.

As for business passing on costs, I guess you don't run one.

Two identical chocolate bars which sell millions of units each year. One gets halal certification. The other doesn't.

The one which gets the certification gets millions more customers. The cost of producing it goes down. Which is the point. Any cost impact upwards (if indeed it is passed on) is far outweighed by the larger savings per unit which come from larger production.

But keep it coming. This is fun. Like shooting fish in a barrel. A Halal fish of course....

[Nobb]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

[dukebowling]

Cheers for diversity…we are all humans on the same planet.

[Bluespunk]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

Nonsense.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Bluespunk

[DM07]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

Yes...let's do that!'Look at the countries that let them "nest in"...which would be basically EVERY COUNTRY ON THIS FORKING GLOBE!

And you are right...just today I heard about Jihadist-attacks in Germany, Norway, Wales, Mexico, Uruguay, Australia, Zanzibar, Takatukaland, Dontcareistan and many many others, like I heard basically everyday before, since I was born!

There is one thing that is right in your 2 lines of utter Islamophobia and stupidity: Thailand has too many problems.

Try not to be one of them!

[cumgranosalum]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

This to me looks like pure unadulterated ignorant bigotry.........it is so sad that people know so little about islam and rational thought that they can actually right this and not see how daft it is.

[DiamondKing]

Dear Thailand: welcome to 21st century. BTW according to these numbers, was part of what would become Malaysia for over a thousand years. You ignored and/or abused them for over a century. Gee I wonder why many might want to be part of Malaysia? Time to start treating all citizens with a bit of respect, regardless of religion, culture, language..... actually, past time.

and the Muslims treat all citizens with respect regardless of religion, culture etc?????

Indonesia with the largest Muslim population in the world certainly treats all its citizens with respect regardless of religion culture and language et cetera same in Malaysia. The problem with you people who criticise Islam you don't really seem to realise that there are many different types of Muslims and you always seem to harp on the worst possible aspects of religion

If you think that then you are not only ignorant you know nothing about those countries. Both countries are ruled my Muslims as you say and at that point there is normally no issues especially if you are muslim however if you are a non muslim then you are a second class citizen and will be discriminated against not only that but you are taxed differently as a non muslim in fact non muslims in Malaysia are not even allowed to mention the word Allah

Is that treating every citizen the same ??? I dont think so

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24516181

[Naam]

Maybe some propaganda but makes for an interesting view.

This is very worrying. I think this issue needs addressing asap. This is a violent and peaodaphiloc religion which needs to be restrained.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

these "peaodaphiloc" Islamists are truly disgusting

[dave_boo]

Water is Halal. Better stop drinking that too. Actually, do us a favour and be strict on that one!

As for price inflation, you understand nothing about economics clearly. But that is nothing unusual with the anti-halal protagonists.

Two things, just because there is an added cost, doesn't mean you can pass it through to consumer (hint: look up elasticity of demand).

Secondly, you open a product up to a larger market, who buy more of your stuff, the marginal cost of producing that product decreases (hint, look up economies of scale).

All your arguments are are fodder for the feeble minded.

Ridiculous.

Firstly, halal slaughtered meat is a far cry from a religious group co-opting an essential requirement. The inhumane slaughter of the animal combined with the demand that group makes that they get paid to certify all meats that are sold on the threat of violence should be enough to turn any rational person's stomach.

Let's put it another way; if the Jews said they would start blowing things up unless everything was certified kosher, would you be cool with that?

R.E. the economic impact, do you actually believe that a business would really "eat" the added cost when they could easily pass it along to the customer? Would you?

More than 50% (up to 90% I believe) of the beef slaughtered in Australia is certified Halal. It meets Australian standards of slaughter, which are quite rigorous. I don't object to a quick prayer being said as the meat is slaughtered. It seems only the keyboard warriors are scared of some jiggery pokery prayer being said at the time of death.

As for blowing things up? Who said that? If I'm a firm and I can open my product up to 100's of million more customers...then I'm going to do it. None of this stuff is led by bomb threats. Its good business sense. Obviously helps starve off the non-halal ingrates as well. A win win as far as I'm concerned.

As for business passing on costs, I guess you don't run one.

Two identical chocolate bars which sell millions of units each year. One gets halal certification. The other doesn't.

The one which gets the certification gets millions more customers. The cost of producing it goes down. Which is the point. Any cost impact upwards (if indeed it is passed on) is far outweighed by the larger savings per unit which come from larger production.

But keep it coming. This is fun. Like shooting fish in a barrel. A Halal fish of course....

There's a debate as to whether Australia's use of stunning the animals actually allows halal certification. Guess the imams will have to figure that out.

Also noted that you carefully skirted a few salient points in my post. Perhaps you could make a stand as to whether halal slaughter is ethical? Not the mumbo jumbo prayer, but the way it's actually slaughtered. Are you OK supporting such a barbaric act? Would you be ok if the Jews forced their religious beliefs on you and made you pay for it?

The blowing things up was kind of a low blow, but it definitely is modus operandi of the followers of Islam. And while it sure is your choice to do business with whom you please, it is everyone else's choice not to contribute to such an inhumane custom.

I would assume that, in your example of candy bars selling millions of units a year, the companies would have enough of a business sense that their costs are fairly fixed. Even doubling units sold would have a negligible positive effect. Cost per unit for wrappers is miniscule. Little room negotiating for ingredients as that level of production means you should be getting the best prices anyways. Market fluctuations can easily wipe out any possible savings obtained from higher volume purchases. Interesting that you attempted to steer the conversation away from slaughter and towards a mechanised production item knowing full well that your arguments fall on their face under scrutiny when the topic at hand is discussed as the labour costs arising from the manual aspects of a slaughter house preclude that.

[DiamondKing]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

What are you going to do with the 3 million Thai citizens who are muslim?

By the way, your online name suits you.

With al your insults and name calling I am surprised you have not been given a vacation you are worse than all the names you have called others a real sad case.

[DiamondKing]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

Nonsense.

REALLY you only have to look at any European country to see that Nobb is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT where ever they infest violence and jihad follows if you actually took the time to do some research you will see places like Sweden France Belgium and many more have SERIOUS muslim problems any sane government such as Japan China and Thailand should continue to stop any immigration of muslims else the future will be tainted with murder and mayhem.

[Bluespunk]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

Nonsense.

REALLY you only have to look at any European country to see that Nobb is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT where ever they infest violence and jihad follows if you actually took the time to do some research you will see places like Sweden France Belgium and many more have SERIOUS muslim problems any sane government such as Japan China and Thailand should continue to stop any immigration of muslims else the future will be tainted with murder and mayhem.

No Nobb was talking nonsense.

To be fair to him, he's not alone in this.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Linky]

Dear Thailand: welcome to 21st century. BTW according to these numbers, was part of what would become Malaysia for over a thousand years. You ignored and/or abused them for over a century. Gee I wonder why many might want to be part of Malaysia? Time to start treating all citizens with a bit of respect, regardless of religion, culture, language..... actually, past time.

and the Muslims treat all citizens with respect regardless of religion, culture etc?????

Indonesia with the largest Muslim population in the world certainly treats all its citizens with respect regardless of religion culture and language et cetera same in Malaysia. The problem with you people who criticise Islam you don't really seem to realise that there are many different types of Muslims and you always seem to harp on the worst possible aspects of religion

If you think that then you are not only ignorant you know nothing about those countries. Both countries are ruled my Muslims as you say and at that point there is normally no issues especially if you are muslim however if you are a non muslim then you are a second class citizen and will be discriminated against not only that but you are taxed differently as a non muslim in fact non muslims in Malaysia are not even allowed to mention the word Allah

Is that treating every citizen the same ??? I dont think so

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24516181

Rubbish yet again from you.

Non muslims can indeed say Allah, they just cant change from God to Allah when writing about the bible. Then again, why would a christian want to change the word.

As for tax, again rubbish, the tax imposed is for foreigners, not non muslims. I know, I just had to pay mine. I think you are confusing bhumiputra with muslim.

Even in australia aborigines are treated differently to other citizens, ever heard of native title and land rights? If you are muslim and not a citizen you get taxed the same asother foreigners. I asked that exact same question to my accountant.

[DiamondKing]

If Thailand is smart they would not let any more muslim in the country. If you are not a muslim then you will be dealing with jihad in the near future. Just look what happens to countries that let them nest in. Does Thailand need jihad it already has to many problems!

Nonsense.

REALLY you only have to look at any European country to see that Nobb is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT where ever they infest violence and jihad follows if you actually took the time to do some research you will see places like Sweden France Belgium and many more have SERIOUS muslim problems any sane government such as Japan China and Thailand should continue to stop any immigration of muslims else the future will be tainted with murder and mayhem.

No Nobb was talking nonsense.

To be fair to him, he's not alone in this.

Typical of lefties to ignore all the evidence and just post one sentence useless replies while ignoring the actual reality

Do you deny all those countries I mention are having SERIOUS Muslim problems because if you are I can provide PAGES of examples including rape of children rape of women, crime, genital mutilation, attacks on non muslims I can go on and on.

Looking forward to your one sentence dismissal

[Bluespunk]

REALLY you only have to look at any European country to see that Nobb is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT where ever they infest violence and jihad follows if you actually took the time to do some research you will see places like Sweden France Belgium and many more have SERIOUS muslim problems any sane government such as Japan China and Thailand should continue to stop any immigration of muslims else the future will be tainted with murder and mayhem.

No Nobb was talking nonsense.

To be fair to him, he's not alone in this.

Typical of lefties to ignore all the evidence and just post one sentence useless replies while ignoring the actual reality

Do you deny all those countries I mention are having SERIOUS Muslim problems because if you are I can provide PAGES of examples including rape of children rape of women, crime, genital mutilation, attacks on non muslims I can go on and on.

Looking forward to your one sentence dismissal

I'm sure you can find examples. Just as there are untold millions of Muslims the world over not doing those things you mention.

Just as there are members of all faiths doing many of the things you mention.

Just as there are many of no faith at all doing many of the things you mention.

Yeah there are scum out there who are muslims but there are also christians, hindus, jews, sikhs and so on that are scum as well.

Reactionaries with their prejudices and bigotry won't admit that though.

You focus on the subject of your hate, you allow it to consume you and will admit no other view

Edited July 16, 2015 by Bluespunk

[amerasianex]

I believe the islamifacation of Thailand is well under way. They want it they can have it......Be just what the Thai people wanted.....

[Yunla]

On the OP itself, I agree with some earlier posters that it is pure sensationalism. So obviously so that I'd feel foolish refuting it.

On Islam in SEA, and around the world, it is going through a similar reformation to that which Christianity went through a long time ago. The factional extremist disputes in Christianity were often bloody and oppressive, we are seeing a similar picture in Islam and for the same reasons, the reformation of perception. Perception of how much credence to give to specific phrases in any given holy book, and the perception of dominator tribal traits that were cloaked in theology for reasons of power. There is a quiet reformation happening right now, and it is not only on Sunni-Shia lines. It is on the lines of normal working families who love Allah and many of the teachings in religious lore, but who choose to ignore the "by the sword" teachings, just as most Christians have learned to do. They are reforming their religion away from the brutality of military Islamic theocracy, which at its heart was never religious at all, it is a cruel trick, an abuse of faith for reasons of social control. The arrival of digital communication has enabled Muslims to discuss these subjects and find common ground on how faith should fit into modern life. And if you think you're tired of hearing about ISIS and brutal theocrats, thats nothing compared to how tired of it all my Muslim friends are.

A wiser person than me once commented on times of great social change, he compared the societal upheavals to a childbirth. There is screaming and blood, and an observer would think that somebody was dying, but actually it is the very opposite, the birth of a new life. This is the same for religious reformations, it is a re-birth and accompanied by tumultuous signatures.

It is also fascinating how fast the blinkers come on, when this subject is discussed. Suddenly everyone is an angel and the world is filled with peace and joy, except for the group in question. How absurd.

[samran]

Water is Halal. Better stop drinking that too. Actually, do us a favour and be strict on that one!

As for price inflation, you understand nothing about economics clearly. But that is nothing unusual with the anti-halal protagonists.

Two things, just because there is an added cost, doesn't mean you can pass it through to consumer (hint: look up elasticity of demand).

Secondly, you open a product up to a larger market, who buy more of your stuff, the marginal cost of producing that product decreases (hint, look up economies of scale).

All your arguments are are fodder for the feeble minded.

Ridiculous.

Firstly, halal slaughtered meat is a far cry from a religious group co-opting an essential requirement. The inhumane slaughter of the animal combined with the demand that group makes that they get paid to certify all meats that are sold on the threat of violence should be enough to turn any rational person's stomach.

Let's put it another way; if the Jews said they would start blowing things up unless everything was certified kosher, would you be cool with that?

R.E. the economic impact, do you actually believe that a business would really "eat" the added cost when they could easily pass it along to the customer? Would you?

More than 50% (up to 90% I believe) of the beef slaughtered in Australia is certified Halal. It meets Australian standards of slaughter, which are quite rigorous. I don't object to a quick prayer being said as the meat is slaughtered. It seems only the keyboard warriors are scared of some jiggery pokery prayer being said at the time of death.

As for blowing things up? Who said that? If I'm a firm and I can open my product up to 100's of million more customers...then I'm going to do it. None of this stuff is led by bomb threats. Its good business sense. Obviously helps starve off the non-halal ingrates as well. A win win as far as I'm concerned.

As for business passing on costs, I guess you don't run one.

Two identical chocolate bars which sell millions of units each year. One gets halal certification. The other doesn't.

The one which gets the certification gets millions more customers. The cost of producing it goes down. Which is the point. Any cost impact upwards (if indeed it is passed on) is far outweighed by the larger savings per unit which come from larger production.

But keep it coming. This is fun. Like shooting fish in a barrel. A Halal fish of course....

There's a debate as to whether Australia's use of stunning the animals actually allows halal certification. Guess the imams will have to figure that out.

Also noted that you carefully skirted a few salient points in my post. Perhaps you could make a stand as to whether halal slaughter is ethical? Not the mumbo jumbo prayer, but the way it's actually slaughtered. Are you OK supporting such a barbaric act? Would you be ok if the Jews forced their religious beliefs on you and made you pay for it?

The blowing things up was kind of a low blow, but it definitely is modus operandi of the followers of Islam. And while it sure is your choice to do business with whom you please, it is everyone else's choice not to contribute to such an inhumane custom.

I would assume that, in your example of candy bars selling millions of units a year, the companies would have enough of a business sense that their costs are fairly fixed. Even doubling units sold would have a negligible positive effect. Cost per unit for wrappers is miniscule. Little room negotiating for ingredients as that level of production means you should be getting the best prices anyways. Market fluctuations can easily wipe out any possible savings obtained from higher volume purchases. Interesting that you attempted to steer the conversation away from slaughter and towards a mechanised production item knowing full well that your arguments fall on their face under scrutiny when the topic at hand is discussed as the labour costs arising from the manual aspects of a slaughter house preclude that.

So you've become an animal welfare warrior now?

If the australian government says the slaughter meets humane standards, then it is fine with me.

We can talk meat all day. I like my meat. A quick kill makes for tender meat. I like tender meat. My rubs are made from kosher salt - damn those jews!

As for passing on costs. You are contradicting yourself. You first say costs are passed on. Then in your last brain dump you imply they aren't always...which is what I said in the first place. So how am I paying for certification in that case then when the company is really sucking up the cost?

Edited July 16, 2015 by samran

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

A political spinning post with made up statistics has been removed.

[cumgranosalum]

Dear islamophobes... There is light at the end of your tunnel of ignorance.

The unrest in the South is not a religious war, it is a separatist struggle.... So if they win they will separate from Thailand..... Surely this is the "De-Islamisation" you have been looking for..... Or do you want to have your cake and eat it?

Edited July 16, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[Johpa]

Cheers for diversity we are all humans on the same planet.

Quite the conundrum for those who enjoy diversity when one of the groups has a system of belief that denies diversity. Akin to having a fascist party vying in democratic elections.

[PaPiPuPePo]

Turkish-Doner-Lamb-Kebab2-iStock.jpg

God Almighty, it's this nonsense again. Basically, halal food is harmless, and kebabs are good. It's not a problem if these kebab shops appear in lots of places. I was pissed out of mind on Friday night, and had a extra-large doner kebab. The only problem being that it cost £7.00, seven pounds, that's a bit over ten US dollars.

Be glad you don't know what kind of meat they use for these giro kebabs.....

So at least one other person knows they use floor sweepings for the "kebab stock." It looks like a hunk of meat on a skewer, but in fact it's bottom of the barrel "meat-like food stuff," well it's probably all animal parts.

Edited July 16, 2015 by PaPiPuPePo

[PaPiPuPePo]

This is the whole thing that irks everyone about the arabs. In everything that they do, they have a deep set need for sadistic forms of death. They don't just kill their enemies they have to do every type of demeaning thing to the corpse that they can. They have zero respect for women whatsoever. In every instance of modern day slavery it is always the arabs. How ironic that they can also produce people like Kahlil Gibran.

Gibran was Catholic.

[PaPiPuPePo]

I fought for 27 years in the special forces division and the truth is that these guys are not good souls

I've never heard a vet of any stripe say they "fought" rather than "served," and never heard the term "the sf division," which "division" was that then? 27 years fighting?

[Bluespunk]

Uh oh.....

[tonbridgebrit]

Turkish-Doner-Lamb-Kebab2-iStock.jpg

God Almighty, it's this nonsense again. Basically, halal food is harmless, and kebabs are good. It's not a problem if these kebab shops appear in lots of places. I was pissed out of mind on Friday night, and had a extra-large doner kebab. The only problem being that it cost £7.00, seven pounds, that's a bit over ten US dollars.

Be glad you don't know what kind of meat they use for these giro kebabs.....

So at least one other person knows they use floor sweepings for the "kebab stock." It looks like a hunk of meat on a skewer, but in fact it's bottom of the barrel "meat-like food stuff," well it's probably all animal parts.

And do you want to claim stuff like how the big chain fast food companies put horsemeat into their burgers, and how fried chicken is actually rat ? It's a good job that you're not famous, and saying this about a big company. End up being sued or looking ridiculous after scoring an own goal.

[dave_boo]

On the OP itself, I agree with some earlier posters that it is pure sensationalism. So obviously so that I'd feel foolish refuting it.

On Islam in SEA, and around the world, it is going through a similar reformation to that which Christianity went through a long time ago. The factional extremist disputes in Christianity were often bloody and oppressive, we are seeing a similar picture in Islam and for the same reasons, the reformation of perception. Perception of how much credence to give to specific phrases in any given holy book, and the perception of dominator tribal traits that were cloaked in theology for reasons of power. There is a quiet reformation happening right now, and it is not only on Sunni-Shia lines. It is on the lines of normal working families who love Allah and many of the teachings in religious lore, but who choose to ignore the "by the sword" teachings, just as most Christians have learned to do. They are reforming their religion away from the brutality of military Islamic theocracy, which at its heart was never religious at all, it is a cruel trick, an abuse of faith for reasons of social control. The arrival of digital communication has enabled Muslims to discuss these subjects and find common ground on how faith should fit into modern life. And if you think you're tired of hearing about ISIS and brutal theocrats, thats nothing compared to how tired of it all my Muslim friends are.

A wiser person than me once commented on times of great social change, he compared the societal upheavals to a childbirth. There is screaming and blood, and an observer would think that somebody was dying, but actually it is the very opposite, the birth of a new life. This is the same for religious reformations, it is a re-birth and accompanied by tumultuous signatures.

It is also fascinating how fast the blinkers come on, when this subject is discussed. Suddenly everyone is an angel and the world is filled with peace and joy, except for the group in question. How absurd.

What is interesting is the effect both of those religions had on each other. Besides the obvious Christian influences on Islamice scriptures, there's the moulding of Catholic doctrine that drew parallels from Islam. Convert or die, indulgences (first recorded instance was for Crusaders [née Jihadists) who participated in a holy war to retake original Christian lands), the absence of "old" cities along the Mediterranean coast due to Muslim raiders, the reintroduction of slavery to an area that had banned it under Christian Roman rule with the North African Muslims acting as the primary slave traders, the cruelest Christian Europeans being those who suffered the most under Muslim invaders, etc.

There seems to be a clear divide, to me at least, between Christianity and Islam in regards to their interpretations of the respective holy texts. Islam teaches Dar-al-Hab and Dar-al-Islam are in perpetual war; the Christian holy texts direct violence at certain people at a certain times in the past. Both teach that new passages supersede older ones; the difference is that newer passages in the Koran are much more violent and intolerant than older verses whereas the newer passages in the Bible have more peaceful messages.

[dave_boo]

Water is Halal. Better stop drinking that too. Actually, do us a favour and be strict on that one!

As for price inflation, you understand nothing about economics clearly. But that is nothing unusual with the anti-halal protagonists.

Two things, just because there is an added cost, doesn't mean you can pass it through to consumer (hint: look up elasticity of demand).

Secondly, you open a product up to a larger market, who buy more of your stuff, the marginal cost of producing that product decreases (hint, look up economies of scale).

All your arguments are are fodder for the feeble minded.

Ridiculous.

Firstly, halal slaughtered meat is a far cry from a religious group co-opting an essential requirement. The inhumane slaughter of the animal combined with the demand that group makes that they get paid to certify all meats that are sold on the threat of violence should be enough to turn any rational person's stomach.

Let's put it another way; if the Jews said they would start blowing things up unless everything was certified kosher, would you be cool with that?

R.E. the economic impact, do you actually believe that a business would really "eat" the added cost when they could easily pass it along to the customer? Would you?

More than 50% (up to 90% I believe) of the beef slaughtered in Australia is certified Halal. It meets Australian standards of slaughter, which are quite rigorous. I don't object to a quick prayer being said as the meat is slaughtered. It seems only the keyboard warriors are scared of some jiggery pokery prayer being said at the time of death.

As for blowing things up? Who said that? If I'm a firm and I can open my product up to 100's of million more customers...then I'm going to do it. None of this stuff is led by bomb threats. Its good business sense. Obviously helps starve off the non-halal ingrates as well. A win win as far as I'm concerned.

As for business passing on costs, I guess you don't run one.

Two identical chocolate bars which sell millions of units each year. One gets halal certification. The other doesn't.

The one which gets the certification gets millions more customers. The cost of producing it goes down. Which is the point. Any cost impact upwards (if indeed it is passed on) is far outweighed by the larger savings per unit which come from larger production.

But keep it coming. This is fun. Like shooting fish in a barrel. A Halal fish of course....

There's a debate as to whether Australia's use of stunning the animals actually allows halal certification. Guess the imams will have to figure that out.

Also noted that you carefully skirted a few salient points in my post. Perhaps you could make a stand as to whether halal slaughter is ethical? Not the mumbo jumbo prayer, but the way it's actually slaughtered. Are you OK supporting such a barbaric act? Would you be ok if the Jews forced their religious beliefs on you and made you pay for it?

The blowing things up was kind of a low blow, but it definitely is modus operandi of the followers of Islam. And while it sure is your choice to do business with whom you please, it is everyone else's choice not to contribute to such an inhumane custom.

I would assume that, in your example of candy bars selling millions of units a year, the companies would have enough of a business sense that their costs are fairly fixed. Even doubling units sold would have a negligible positive effect. Cost per unit for wrappers is miniscule. Little room negotiating for ingredients as that level of production means you should be getting the best prices anyways. Market fluctuations can easily wipe out any possible savings obtained from higher volume purchases. Interesting that you attempted to steer the conversation away from slaughter and towards a mechanised production item knowing full well that your arguments fall on their face under scrutiny when the topic at hand is discussed as the labour costs arising from the manual aspects of a slaughter house preclude that.

So you've become an animal welfare warrior now?

If the australian government says the slaughter meets humane standards, then it is fine with me.

We can talk meat all day. I like my meat. A quick kill makes for tender meat. I like tender meat. My rubs are made from kosher salt - damn those jews!

As for passing on costs. You are contradicting yourself. You first say costs are passed on. Then in your last brain dump you imply they aren't always...which is what I said in the first place. So how am I paying for certification in that case then when the company is really sucking up the cost?

I disagree with animals suffering to be turned into delicious food; but I am not an animal welfare warrior either. It would be hypocritical for me to force my beliefs on others while demanding them to not do the same. And forced purchase of halal meats is just that; a condemnation of my beliefs and an enroachment of my personal freedoms, namely the freedom of choice. Add in being from a country with a proud heritage of separation of church and state, I really chafe at the thought.

I don't understand how you read that I implied that they wouldn't. Whilst there are obviously loss leaders and occasional sales to drive future business I can't fathom how anyone would interpret my post as you did.

Having answered each of your points in a manner that did not belittle you I have come to the realisation that you are not interested in an actual debate but "scoring points" over those who you apparently deem your intellectual inferior. As further attempts to converse rationally with you are very apparently doomed to failure, I must wish you the best and acknowledge that you are not going to change your beliefs. Good night sir.

[englishoak]

One large allah hu akbar too please, but hold the garlic sauce.

cheers

Edited July 16, 2015 by englishoak

[Yunla]

What is interesting is the effect both of those religions had on each other. Besides the obvious Christian influences on Islamice scriptures, there's the moulding of Catholic doctrine that drew parallels from Islam. Convert or die, indulgences (first recorded instance was for Crusaders [née Jihadists) who participated in a holy war to retake original Christian lands), the absence of "old" cities along the Mediterranean coast due to Muslim raiders, the reintroduction of slavery to an area that had banned it under Christian Roman rule with the North African Muslims acting as the primary slave traders, the cruelest Christian Europeans being those who suffered the most under Muslim invaders, etc.

There seems to be a clear divide, to me at least, between Christianity and Islam in regards to their interpretations of the respective holy texts. Islam teaches Dar-al-Hab and Dar-al-Islam are in perpetual war; the Christian holy texts direct violence at certain people at a certain times in the past. Both teach that new passages supersede older ones; the difference is that newer passages in the Koran are much more violent and intolerant than older verses whereas the newer passages in the Bible have more peaceful messages.

I agree with several of the points you made on the similarities and differences between these two faiths.

I always try to separate religious faith from socio-political control. Even the term terrorism is a politically-anchored term, and many so-called "religious terrorists" are motivated entirely by Earthly matters such as socio-politics.

Religion to me describes a person's inner dialogue with God. It is the faith in God, and the love for God. After that you get the books, addendum texts, physical places of worship, sacred lands, and self-proclaimed experts (religious leaders). For me as a Christian, I base my faith on my own experiences more than random phrases in ancient manuscripts. In my prayer, and often in mundane situations, I have seen God. To me this is the pure essence of all religions, including Buddhism and Islam. How seriously we want to take the ancient addendum texts is a matter of personal choice, but also of education. I would compare much of the old religious lore to Wiki, people add texts and then they die, then the next generation will add new texts and so on. Wiki is interesting and useful, but I would never rate it as a more reliable source of information than an individual's direct empirical life-experiences.

I feel the same way about priests, clerics and monks. Even without the constant news stories about how degenerate and corrupt many of these individuals are, I question their very role itself. If a religion is defined as my belief in God, and my personal life experiences with God, then why would I need a priest to act as an intermediary between myself and God. The interesting thing about Islam today, and apparently hidden from the Daily Mail, is this very same discussion among Muslims, about how this primacy of the individual and the divine is actually the true fundamentalism. There is nothing more fundamental for a religious person, than their own individual journey with God, this trumps all the books, buildings and priests combined. Knowledge of this inner dialogue is a beautiful and liberating thing. I am encouraged to see this gradual return to the fundamentals of faith, true faith becoming more centre-stage after so many years of watching from the wings, and seeing all our religions being misappropriated and used as sociopolitical weapons.