PM Prayut blames previous governments for water shortage

[rametindallas]

Earlier he blamed the water shortage on the previous rice scheme using too much water. Now the previous govt. did not manage the dams.

Oh and 14 students were agitated by a 'politician outside the country'. And the bombs in the south are due to the two political parties.

There's only one thing leaky here.

"Now the previous govt. did not manage the dams." And he is exactly RIGHT. Yingluk ordered the operating curves of the major storage dams changed to a lower level because she did not want to be blamed for mismanagement of another flood. Between Jan and July 2012, 7.5 billion Cubic Metres of additional water (ie over and above normal level reduction) were dumped from Bhumipol and Sirikit Dams, the 2 largest, despite obvious evidence an el Nino event was imminent.

From October 2012 the levels in these dams dropped below the new lower storage levels and have never recovered back to that operating level.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

Clicking on each dam will produce an inter-active graph (which I can't link to) giving daily levels in each of the dams.

His statement regarding catchment areas sounds off to me, but the allegation that Yingluk AGAIN mismanaged dams is indisputable.

Banharn and his party were looking after the control philosophy for the dams, not Yingluck. I gave a talk to the American Chamber of Commerce and some Government advisors at the time. I have all the data on rainfall and capacity of reservoirs and dams required. The problem at the time of the floods was that the heavy rains fell mainly in the Yom River basin catchment area which was where the Yom River Dam/reservoir was supposed to have been built, but was cancelled in 2006 following another coup. During the last floods and recent rainfall patterns, there have been only light rains in the catchment areas feeding the existing dams/reservoirs. The dams serve to store excess rains during the monsoon to regulate the down stream flow in the rivers but also they need to store enough water to cover the irrigation/drinking water requirements during periods of drought. Without the Yom River Dam/reservoir there has always been a higher risk of floods or water shortage because they cannot control the water flow properly without the Yom River Dam and reservoirs which was stopped due to environmentalists demonstrating against it.

Banharn and his party were looking after the control philosophy for the dams, not Yingluck.

And as we all know, Khun Banharn always had the whole of the Thai people at heart and not just his home province/power base /sarc

BTW, just who was it that appointed Khun Banharn to his position? Was it PM Yingluck or her 'caddy', Dr. T?

.

Edited July 20, 2015 by rametindallas

[tbthailand]

and he was forced to become PM, too...

suck it up general, you're moron enough...

[fred Kubasa]

And those DAMNED AMERICANS !

[bil2054]

There is similar debate related to the protracted drought situation here in the South West USA, particularly relating to agricultural disaster facing California. One of the problems there is a too great reliance on what was once thought to be an inexhaustible resource, the mighty Colorado River, except it is not so mighty when its lower limit volume is parceled out by treaty at something like 200% of capacity..
There is also a huge furor over the policy of limiting irrigation while allowing millions of gallons to continue flowing through the deltas into the ocean. This is inaccurately blamed solely on concern for an endangered minnow, which while a factor is of less importance than the fact that below a certain flow rate the salt waters of the Pacific will back up into the channels and drastically alter the ecology of the entire delta area in a very short time, and irredeemably so for decades at least.
I do not know if this is part of the reason for allowing the waters to continue flowing even though the Bhumipol and Sirikit Dams were below previous optimal levels, but it is a serious and valid consideration.
Perhaps I should not give the current or former administration the "Yeah! Yeah... that's the ticket!", but knowing that it IS a situation here and mostly ignored because, you know, science is in such ill repute these days.....

Edited July 20, 2015 by bil2054

[Thian]

I agree with the General. Thailand needs more waterbasins spread over the country and more forests.

Hopefully the basins will also fill the ground waterlevels so in times of draught it can be pumped up.

Makhaa tree's can stand draught and make good timber, give shade, are habitat for animals.

[Alwyn]

a total fraud of a PM

[JakeSully]

Thai thinking: Submarines to torpedo Rohinyas are more important than a national aqueduct system to prevent famine.

[hawker9000]

I see Thailand has taken a page out of Obama's "blame it on Bush" playbook. Nice.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

I agree with the General. Thailand needs more waterbasins spread over the country and more forests.

Hopefully the basins will also fill the ground waterlevels so in times of draught it can be pumped up.

Makhaa tree's can stand draught and make good timber, give shade, are habitat for animals.

Agree with you, they also need more big dams without hydroelectric power plants, all the major dams in Thailand now uses allot of its water between March and June when the power consumption is high due to the hot season. That is a major reason why the dams are vey low now.

[MW72]

Blaming previous regimes. The man might make a decent politician after all.

He is the man at the top so whilst he must shoulder some responsibility I think it would be fair to say that previous governments have not done enough either. In a country where people continue to live without mains water or electricity and education standards are so poor, it is quite shameful that money is squandered on vanity project by the current and especially, previous regimes.

Shame on them all.

[lvr181]

I agree with the General. Thailand needs more waterbasins spread over the country and more forests.

Hopefully the basins will also fill the ground waterlevels so in times of draught it can be pumped up.

Makhaa tree's can stand draught and make good timber, give shade, are habitat for animals.

Agree with you, they also need more big dams without hydroelectric power plants, all the major dams in Thailand now uses allot of its water between March and June when the power consumption is high due to the hot season. That is a major reason why the dams are vey low now.

Thian, when do you see these things happening? If 36M Baht was not being earmarked for "pie in the sky" need for submarines then that, maybe, would help in making an early start of the General's ideas. I certainly wouldn't put a dollar bet on this happening in a truly constructive way any time soon.

HiSoLowSoNoSo, where will the electricity come from? What is your alternative? Surely the water that runs thru the hydroelectric power plants can be DIVERTED in a way that it can be used successfully elsewhere. Two good uses of one resource?

[Somtamnication]

Prayut is correct.

I remember seeing water tank after water tank leaving Thailand for parts unknown, before May 22 2014.

[Estrada]

Earlier he blamed the water shortage on the previous rice scheme using too much water. Now the previous govt. did not manage the dams.

Oh and 14 students were agitated by a 'politician outside the country'. And the bombs in the south are due to the two political parties.

There's only one thing leaky here.

"Now the previous govt. did not manage the dams." And he is exactly RIGHT. Yingluk ordered the operating curves of the major storage dams changed to a lower level because she did not want to be blamed for mismanagement of another flood. Between Jan and July 2012, 7.5 billion Cubic Metres of additional water (ie over and above normal level reduction) were dumped from Bhumipol and Sirikit Dams, the 2 largest, despite obvious evidence an el Nino event was imminent.

From October 2012 the levels in these dams dropped below the new lower storage levels and have never recovered back to that operating level.

http://www.thaiwater.net/DATA/REPORT/php/rid_dam_1.php?lang=en

Clicking on each dam will produce an inter-active graph (which I can't link to) giving daily levels in each of the dams.

His statement regarding catchment areas sounds off to me, but the allegation that Yingluk AGAIN mismanaged dams is indisputable.

Banharn and his party were looking after the control philosophy for the dams, not Yingluck. I gave a talk to the American Chamber of Commerce and some Government advisors at the time. I have all the data on rainfall and capacity of reservoirs and dams required. The problem at the time of the floods was that the heavy rains fell mainly in the Yom River basin catchment area which was where the Yom River Dam/reservoir was supposed to have been built, but was cancelled in 2006 following another coup. During the last floods and recent rainfall patterns, there have been only light rains in the catchment areas feeding the existing dams/reservoirs. The dams serve to store excess rains during the monsoon to regulate the down stream flow in the rivers but also they need to store enough water to cover the irrigation/drinking water requirements during periods of drought. Without the Yom River Dam/reservoir there has always been a higher risk of floods or water shortage because they cannot control the water flow properly without the Yom River Dam and reservoirs which was stopped due to environmentalists demonstrating against it.

So the PM isn't responsible for the decisions of her (very minor) coalition partners in her government? That's a new one.

Are you denying that the data I linked to was accurate? Did you look at it?

How exactly does the lack of a dam alter my statement that normal storage was dumped from the existing dams?

Obviously you have no idea of Thai politics. To say that Past P.M. Banharn is a very minor player is very naïve. It was a coalition Government and Banharn's party were in control of the dams, Yingluck could not go up against his decision. As an expert and consultant in water engineering having followed and been involved in the King's Master Plan for flood prevention and water conservation since 1982 I am fully aware of the real cause of the flooding and water shortages is caused by non implementation of phase III of the King's Master Plan.

[arrowsdawdle]

Now who's to be blamed for canceling the water manegement projects in June last year. The blame game continue. When is he going to man up and face the challenges.

Prayut will next blame George W. Bush for all of his and Obama's shortcomings.

[halloween]

Hmm, OK, but what does the accused mismanage the of water in 2012 have to do with the current water shortage? I am truly a little confused on that point.

The storage dams were full in Jan 2012. Yingluk via her minister, ordered the dam levels lowered to the low operating curve rather than the higher curve between Jan and Jul 2012. From Oct 2012 to now, dam levels have been dropping steadily, never getting back to the lower curve, because of low rainfall and high demand.

If she hadn't ordered dropping to the lower curve and used the higher, there would have been an EXTRA 7.5 billion CM in the 2 largest storage dams alone.

These dams are multi purpose, the 2 major purposes being storage and flood prevention. She ordered flood prevention to be the major priority (because her government had been blamed for worsening the 2011 flood) at a time when floods were increasingly unlikely and when drought storage should have been the prime concern.

[geriatrickid]

He's at least partly right, but manipulating the water management was nothing unique to the previous government. What is beyond doubt is that the rice scheme increased the water consumption dramatically. With several years of moderate rainfall, it was only a question of when, rather than if, a problem would arise. Still, the main problem is the lack of rain.

How about a does of the painful truth?

Do you know what uses more water that rice farmers?

Do you know what uses more pesticides than rice farmers?

GOLF COURSES

Average amount of pesticides used per acre, per year, on golf courses - 8.2 KG

Average amount of pesticides used, per acre, per year, in agriculture - 2.1 kg

Amount of water used by 60,000 villagers in Thailand, on average, per day- 6500 cu. m

Amount of water used by one golf course in Thailand, on average, per day - 6500 cu. m.

Sources: Pesticides: “EcoMall: A Greener Golf Course, 2004;” Thailand: U.K. Sports Turf Research Institute

Guess how many golf courses the Thai military owns and operates. Why does an impoverished country like Thailand have military operated golf courses? Is it to provide the 2000+ generals something to do?

Why hasn't anyone ever asked why the Thai Army is taking large amounts of water for a golf course in drought stricken Surin?

Instead of looking for scapegoats, why not take action now and stop using the water for golf courses?

[Fat Haggis]

but but but.. the Army don't do corruption!!

I wonder how many of these courses are on encroached land? or maybe the Army see Thailand as a whole, as "their land"

[halloween]

He's at least partly right, but manipulating the water management was nothing unique to the previous government. What is beyond doubt is that the rice scheme increased the water consumption dramatically. With several years of moderate rainfall, it was only a question of when, rather than if, a problem would arise. Still, the main problem is the lack of rain.

How about a does of the painful truth?

Do you know what uses more water that rice farmers?

Do you know what uses more pesticides than rice farmers?

GOLF COURSES

Average amount of pesticides used per acre, per year, on golf courses - 8.2 KG

Average amount of pesticides used, per acre, per year, in agriculture - 2.1 kg

Amount of water used by 60,000 villagers in Thailand, on average, per day- 6500 cu. m

Amount of water used by one golf course in Thailand, on average, per day - 6500 cu. m.

Sources: Pesticides: “EcoMall: A Greener Golf Course, 2004;” Thailand: U.K. Sports Turf Research Institute

Guess how many golf courses the Thai military owns and operates. Why does an impoverished country like Thailand have military operated golf courses? Is it to provide the 2000+ generals something to do?

Why hasn't anyone ever asked why the Thai Army is taking large amounts of water for a golf course in drought stricken Surin?

Instead of looking for scapegoats, why not take action now and stop using the water for golf courses?

As this is a major concern to you, could you put it into perspective by a comparison of the area of golf courses in Thailand compared to rice farms? Some of us enjoy a belly laugh.

[Fat Haggis]

What difference does it make comparing areas, it's the quantity of water that each uses, why does the Army actually have so many run golf course in the first place is a much bigger question to ask.

A golf course is not a necessity, it's a luxury!!

[mike324]

Now who's to be blamed for canceling the water manegement projects in June last year. The blame game continue. When is he going to man up and face the challenges.

Remember your last PTP water minister admitted after the big floods that he failed to release water early enough, the when the monsoons came water overflowed and flooded Thailand---DID YOU FORGET THIS.??

Where did the money go after when the Yingluck government were to put it all right so it would never happen again, But it will happen because most money disappeared.

Now we have drought, and in 1 year governing you think that the dry areas can all be given wells...NEVER in 1 year no where in the world can any government do that.

Where did the money go that was given to dredge the canals, so they could hold water when it came.??

Most of the PTP arrangements had to be cancelled because they were NOT managed properly and corruption rife--hence the cancel bit.

Totally confused. Is there a Water Minister and can you provide quote to what he said? You are also lumping the short term and long term programs together. The short term immediate after the flood was for flood rehabilitation and providing confidence to the foreign companies like building flood wall barriers and retention area. The cancellation was for the long term project by the junta. When you put things in proper perspective, you can see that the short term programs were achieved but not the long term which is a big mistake.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/I-ordered-a-delay-in-the-release-of-water-from-dam-30169695.html

That's the link where the Agriculture Minister under the PTP admitted why water from dams were released late, causing the flooding in 2011. It was because they want farmers to bring in a 3rd crop for more income.

Billions have been lost from the "Flood Prevention" projects, nothing was ever completed. Even short term project were half finished. Residents around Thailand have complain how there are half finish "flood prevention" projects. Not to mention Japanese government willing to pay to fix the roads themselves so Japanese industry won't be effected by Thai's government's incompetency. If you need links you can PM me, I'll dig it up for you.

[mojorison]

He's at least partly right, but manipulating the water management was nothing unique to the previous government. What is beyond doubt is that the rice scheme increased the water consumption dramatically. With several years of moderate rainfall, it was only a question of when, rather than if, a problem would arise. Still, the main problem is the lack of rain.

How about a does of the painful truth?

Do you know what uses more water that rice farmers?

Do you know what uses more pesticides than rice farmers?

GOLF COURSES

Average amount of pesticides used per acre, per year, on golf courses - 8.2 KG

Average amount of pesticides used, per acre, per year, in agriculture - 2.1 kg

Amount of water used by 60,000 villagers in Thailand, on average, per day- 6500 cu. m

Amount of water used by one golf course in Thailand, on average, per day - 6500 cu. m.

Sources: Pesticides: “EcoMall: A Greener Golf Course, 2004;” Thailand: U.K. Sports Turf Research Institute

Guess how many golf courses the Thai military owns and operates. Why does an impoverished country like Thailand have military operated golf courses? Is it to provide the 2000+ generals something to do?

Why hasn't anyone ever asked why the Thai Army is taking large amounts of water for a golf course in drought stricken Surin?

Instead of looking for scapegoats, why not take action now and stop using the water for golf courses?

Great Post.

[jerojero]

His government planned to dig wells...but? Why was it not done! 14 months with absolute power over everything in the country and blaming former governments? Unbelievable.

Edited July 21, 2015 by jerojero

[mojorison]

He's at least partly right, but manipulating the water management was nothing unique to the previous government. What is beyond doubt is that the rice scheme increased the water consumption dramatically. With several years of moderate rainfall, it was only a question of when, rather than if, a problem would arise. Still, the main problem is the lack of rain.

How about a does of the painful truth?

Do you know what uses more water that rice farmers?

Do you know what uses more pesticides than rice farmers?

GOLF COURSES

Average amount of pesticides used per acre, per year, on golf courses - 8.2 KG

Average amount of pesticides used, per acre, per year, in agriculture - 2.1 kg

Amount of water used by 60,000 villagers in Thailand, on average, per day- 6500 cu. m

Amount of water used by one golf course in Thailand, on average, per day - 6500 cu. m.

Sources: Pesticides: “EcoMall: A Greener Golf Course, 2004;” Thailand: U.K. Sports Turf Research Institute

Guess how many golf courses the Thai military owns and operates. Why does an impoverished country like Thailand have military operated golf courses? Is it to provide the 2000+ generals something to do?

Why hasn't anyone ever asked why the Thai Army is taking large amounts of water for a golf course in drought stricken Surin?

Instead of looking for scapegoats, why not take action now and stop using the water for golf courses?

As this is a major concern to you, could you put it into perspective by a comparison of the area of golf courses in Thailand compared to rice farms? Some of us enjoy a belly laugh.

I don't understand your comment. Do you agree or not? Sounds like you disagree, and yet your point seems to support his statement.

[halloween]

What difference does it make comparing areas, it's the quantity of water that each uses, why does the Army actually have so many run golf course in the first place is a much bigger question to ask.

A golf course is not a necessity, it's a luxury!!

Oh please. He's not complaining about the quantity, he's complaining about the RELATIVE quantity. Yes it is the QUANTITY that is important, and one is SFA compared to the other.

[Fat Haggis]

Well the proof will be in the pudding, I'm willing to see the Junta have a 4 year term in office, and if the economy recovers, and their relentless pursuit of their nearest political rivals stops, and they can turn the country around, then they will deserve the plaudits.

They've already eaten into almost 2 years, and the biggest problems are still there.

If he really is for the people, drop article 44 and stop chasing pointless cases, focus on this water shortage issue for starters, as it's still going to be an issue this time next year, and the year after.

Stop the blame game, accept you're in a position to start working on solutions now Prayuth, then you might start getting less grief!!

[Fat Haggis]

What difference does it make comparing areas, it's the quantity of water that each uses, why does the Army actually have so many run golf course in the first place is a much bigger question to ask.

A golf course is not a necessity, it's a luxury!!

Oh please. He's not complaining about the quantity, he's complaining about the RELATIVE quantity. Yes it is the QUANTITY that is important, and one is SFA compared to the other.

How many of these golf courses have dried up and are unplayable compared to the withering rice crops?

Priorities mate, it's not golf courses that's for sure.

[mike324]

Why do you lie like this. The floods took place in September to December 2011. The PTP government took office in middle August 2011. If you wanted to lower the level of the dams to avoid flooding downstream water had to be let out over a 3 month period. So your lies don't tie up. There isnt 3 months between middle August and middle September. The Dems was in power untill middle August and the flood was already building up and areas such as Singburi was already flooded, but they did nothing to prevent the flood reaching BKK. If you want to confirm this search for NASA images taken at that time. PTP spend money (B 80 bn) on building flood walls at the industrial estates and all of these walls have been completed. PTP provided funds to the BMA to dredge canals in BKK and remove water plants that prevents water flowing. Dredging is however not a once off task, it must be repeated on an annual basis. The present government have provided zero Baht for these tasks.

The present government canceled the B 350 bn flood prevention projects, which included a water management system, the system that could have prevented the present chaos. They also stated publicaly that this B 350 bn would be used for drought related projects. None of these drought projects ever materialised. This is however a dead give away that they knew about the pending drought already last year and did nothing to prevent its impact. Why didnt they cut the outflows from dams when they knew there was a drought ? Why did they not react on the international warnings of a pending El Nino ? Incompetence or arrogance or false belief in rain dances ?

Can you please provide proof of any flood related funds been stolen by PTP? Any I mean I will even accept an article written by BKK Post in which they speculate that some of the B 80 bn was stolen with even meager evidence. Untill today the present government have never ever mentioned corruption in the spending of the B 80 bn, but you offcourse know better and more than them.

As none of the B 350 bn was ever spend on the flood prevention projects how could any corruption have taken place. Please explain how this is possible. Your dear great leader canceled all of the projects and after that there is no trace of what the money was used for. Maybe it was used for other projects or for salary increases or it never got spend, but there was never a public explanation of what this funds was used for. I am not saying they stole the money, just saying the public lost track of the funds.

When the PTP was in office, there were only small flash floods in different province, these flash floods are the same that happens every year. PTP deliberately delayed the release of flood water so farmers can bring in a 3rd crop. PTP's Agriculture Minister even admitted to this mistake.

As for corruption, if you simply search "PTP flood prevention corruption" on google, there were many cases and complaints.

Not saying the current government is any better as nothing has been done.

[halloween]

As this is a major concern to you, could you put it into perspective by a comparison of the area of golf courses in Thailand compared to rice farms? Some of us enjoy a belly laugh.

I don't understand your comment. Do you agree or not? Sounds like you disagree, and yet your point seems to support his statement.

I was pointing out it is a nit-pick. Quite possibly golf courses use more water per unit area, but the total area is miniscule in comparison. Is that difficult to grasp?

[Fat Haggis]

Still waiting for your debunking Estrada's post too Halloween, which will be fun considering he actually is an SME, it's ironic as you are having a wee pop at some posters on another thread about not cow towing to your "tables" post.

[halloween]

What difference does it make comparing areas, it's the quantity of water that each uses, why does the Army actually have so many run golf course in the first place is a much bigger question to ask.

A golf course is not a necessity, it's a luxury!!

Oh please. He's not complaining about the quantity, he's complaining about the RELATIVE quantity. Yes it is the QUANTITY that is important, and one is SFA compared to the other.

How many of these golf courses have dried up and are unplayable compared to the withering rice crops?

Priorities mate, it's not golf courses that's for sure.

Get your own priorities right. It's like your looking at a paper cut on a finger compared to a bullet wound in the chest.

Should watering of golf courses be restricted in drought affected areas? Of course, as should many other activities. The whole point was to take a cheap shot without any real substance, and the urgers are only too willing to jump on the bandwagon.