EnglishJohn Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Why can't Suthep keep quite and let everyone carry on with the dirty politics and easy way to make money through bribes and kickbacks ?. Those that get it are happy and those who don't have the dream that they will get it too someday. The millions of poor who think nothing can change and just get on with their lives don't count. The people who earn the money and pay the taxes to cover it are just ' Bangkok Elite' and deserve to lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrenn Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Wheeling out Suthep is just a ploy, to divert attention from the total mess that this government is making of running the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Why can't Suthep keep quite and let everyone carry on with the dirty politics and easy way to make money through bribes and kickbacks ?. Those that get it are happy and those who don't have the dream that they will get it too someday. The millions of poor who think nothing can change and just get on with their lives don't count. The people who earn the money and pay the taxes to cover it are just ' Bangkok Elite' and deserve to lose it. If the Bangkok Elite are anything like the western Elite they will be the ones making the money but not necessarily the ones paying taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Oh the darling of the right won't be involved in politics, never, ever, ever... only 'civil society politics' only a Thai could come up with that one and only Thais could believe it Why do some insist on trying categorize Thai political factions into the right and left spectrum of Western political doctrines? There are no real socialist or conservative parties here. Just rival gangs out to wrest control from the other. The newer gang versus the established gang - but both rich, in many cases seemingly unusually so, and part of the hiso elite wealthy top tier small % of the population that owns and controls just about everything. As an example do you think Jatauporn and Nattawut are socialists? And Suthep a fascist? Or are they in rival camps out for what the can get for themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 well you can bet there will be more blood coming to the streets again. Just like in 1991. All over again. I pray you are wrong but neither a Military Junta nor a Returning Thaksin nor a Menacing Suthep is the answer people need to change from a nationalistic me,me,me culture but that will take decades of paradigm shift True - it will also take massive changes in education, the justice system and people's values and perception to move people away from the current paradigm. Do you see anyone anywhere actually doing anything to start that process? Too many, like those you mention and others, have very strong vested reasons not to want to change. The role model they display is one of vast wealth and lavish life style for little real work and very little honesty, ethics, and morals. Changing that is a massive ask for anyone. The haven't been many leader or political groups in history that could accomplish this easily. And none seem ever to have been in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 well you can bet there will be more blood coming to the streets again. Just like in 1991. All over again. I pray you are wrong but neither a Military Junta nor a Returning Thaksin nor a Menacing Suthep is the answer people need to change from a nationalistic me,me,me culture but that will take decades of paradigm shift True - it will also take massive changes in education, the justice system and people's values and perception to move people away from the current paradigm. Do you see anyone anywhere actually doing anything to start that process? Too many, like those you mention and others, have very strong vested reasons not to want to change. The role model they display is one of vast wealth and lavish life style for little real work and very little honesty, ethics, and morals. Changing that is a massive ask for anyone. The haven't been many leader or political groups in history that could accomplish this easily. And none seem ever to have been in Thailand. Well its only taken you 16 months to realise this, so the point of the coup was? A power grab to get their snouts in the trough, well surprise surprise...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 well you can bet there will be more blood coming to the streets again. Just like in 1991. All over again. I pray you are wrong but neither a Military Junta nor a Returning Thaksin nor a Menacing Suthep is the answer people need to change from a nationalistic me,me,me culture but that will take decades of paradigm shift True - it will also take massive changes in education, the justice system and people's values and perception to move people away from the current paradigm. Do you see anyone anywhere actually doing anything to start that process? Too many, like those you mention and others, have very strong vested reasons not to want to change. The role model they display is one of vast wealth and lavish life style for little real work and very little honesty, ethics, and morals. Changing that is a massive ask for anyone. The haven't been many leader or political groups in history that could accomplish this easily. And none seem ever to have been in Thailand. Well its only taken you 16 months to realise this, so the point of the coup was? A power grab to get their snouts in the trough, well surprise surprise...... That is not much of an argument smutty, when you consider the desperate lengths the Shins go to in order to get into and stay in power. One mob uses military strength to take power and the other uses money and bs. In the end it is for the same prize, to get their noses in the trough. As you say, surprise surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Suthep only does what is good for suthep. I think he got enough offers from the man in Dubai to be silent in exchange of a nice bank account in Singapore.....Staying in dirt for many month without profit is surely not the best thing he could have for himself most stupid post of the month award do you have a SHRED of evidence? link? quote? or are you just making it up as usual? As he frequently bought MPs and offered money for them to change sides.....Well known the amounts with the Abhisit government when they had to lock the MPs in a hotel because someone very close to Thaksin tried to buy some out of it. Or lets remember the pastry box in court. You don't seriously believe that the man in Dubai wouldn't pay 500 Million or 1 billion if the demonstrations go away with it. The profit from being in government is much higher. Of course he offered it.....it would be totally silly not to do so. No one ever accused him to be silly or not seeing a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Well its only taken you 16 months to realise this, so the point of the coup was? A power grab to get their snouts in the trough, well surprise surprise...... That is not much of an argument smutty, when you consider the desperate lengths the Shins go to in order to get into and stay in power. One mob uses military strength to take power and the other uses money and bs. In the end it is for the same prize, to get their noses in the trough. As you say, surprise surprise. Desperate lengths by the Shins is an election- desperate lengths by the others is coup after coup- i tend to know which one most would indicate is the most desperate! I think you would find that the side which uses military strength has far far more money at their disposal should they want to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Suthep only does what is good for suthep. I think he got enough offers from the man in Dubai to be silent in exchange of a nice bank account in Singapore.....Staying in dirt for many month without profit is surely not the best thing he could have for himself most stupid post of the month award do you have a SHRED of evidence? link? quote? or are you just making it up as usual? Why would the man in Dubai want to give this guy a satang? Better to put him in a jokers suit and give him a bell and call him "The Thailand Crier" His 15 minutes of fame have long passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 "This call for the next election to be held after the reform is completed may be just a ploy by some people who do not want to contest an election because they have no chance of winning." For the win! What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand... "free and fair" And sure, reform is desperately needed before this can happen... Reform in the countryside where the Thais have to get rid of the village headman system... it stinks of corruption.. Get rid of Nepotism... another huge source of corruption.. Move policemen around, new locations every 6 months... move civil servants around... different departments.. Corruption is so engrained here in Thai society... so, make the punishment fit the crime.. And , pay fair wages and pension schemes... make it so peoples are afraid to lose those benefits... Allow any person of any party to go into any area and canvass for him/herself... Any citizen selling their votes to be jailed... 6 months... (maybe not enough prisons) But what the hell, I am farang and can go home any time I want... let the Thai people stew in the broth of their own cooking..... Bring Thaksin back, give him the keys of all the cities.... Haha.... All policeman will rejoice with the return of their Messiah...... Rock on Prayuth in your thankless job..! Suicide is painless..... ????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Suthep only does what is good for suthep. I think he got enough offers from the man in Dubai to be silent in exchange of a nice bank account in Singapore.....Staying in dirt for many month without profit is surely not the best thing he could have for himself most stupid post of the month award do you have a SHRED of evidence? link? quote? or are you just making it up as usual? As he frequently bought MPs and offered money for them to change sides.....Well known the amounts with the Abhisit government when they had to lock the MPs in a hotel because someone very close to Thaksin tried to buy some out of it. Or lets remember the pastry box in court. You don't seriously believe that the man in Dubai wouldn't pay 500 Million or 1 billion if the demonstrations go away with it. The profit from being in government is much higher. Of course he offered it.....it would be totally silly not to do so. No one ever accused him to be silly or not seeing a profit. What do you think the army/Dems offered other coalition parties to help form the Government in 2008? Everything you keep making up could equally be used for the other side in this whole ongoing debacle. How much did Abhisit/Suthep and the army offer Thaksin in 2010 to stop his protests.........would be totally silly not to do so. No one ever accused him to be silly or not seeing a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Maybe Suthep actually has some strong beliefs. He demanded about reforms before the Yingluck government stood down He is demanding reforms now while the Junta runs the country. Maybe, just maybe, he is on the right track. Seems to have big balls. Certainly has a lot of support. Interesting to see how this pans out. Would it be a bad thing really to have some of the reforms he talks about? Just putting it out there without red/yellow/amart/bangkok elite/chiang mai/dubai elite bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainarong Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 This whole constitution mess is because they are trying to cover every angle and please every faction that supports the current regime. The constitution should be a set of principles to which every new law must pay homage to. It is the laws that need changing from the infantile basic version Thailand now has to a proper integrated system based on principles of law and Justice which the current laws and mindset of the judiciary has little concept of. Sadly Thai people just do not understand the concept of a constitution which is why everyone is floundering about like headless chickens. It will be some time yet before the whole mess is sorted out because they are going the wrong way about it. +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 = 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smutcakes Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Maybe Suthep actually has some strong beliefs. He demanded about reforms before the Yingluck government stood down He is demanding reforms now while the Junta runs the country. Maybe, just maybe, he is on the right track. Seems to have big balls. Certainly has a lot of support. Interesting to see how this pans out. Would it be a bad thing really to have some of the reforms he talks about? Just putting it out there without red/yellow/amart/bangkok elite/chiang mai/dubai elite bias. Suthep has been in position of power for 30 years, and in that time has never been far from controversy over corruption and dubious deals, which were echoed in the wiki leaks from the USA embassy of people within his own party complaining about his corrupt behaviour. I find it more than a stretch that suddenly since 2011 he has suddenly decided the need for reform is so great he is going to take on a unilateral crusade about it. In fact you even suggesting it is laughable. You still really believe that he is acting without consultation with NCPO? There is nothing that can really go wrong from him coming out now and demanding reform. If it stirs up agitation, great it gives them an excuse to delay elections. If no agitation is stirred up, then it would signal to them there is wide support for delays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Maybe Suthep actually has some strong beliefs. He demanded about reforms before the Yingluck government stood down He is demanding reforms now while the Junta runs the country. Maybe, just maybe, he is on the right track. Seems to have big balls. Certainly has a lot of support. Interesting to see how this pans out. Would it be a bad thing really to have some of the reforms he talks about? Just putting it out there without red/yellow/amart/bangkok elite/chiang mai/dubai elite bias. Suthep has been in position of power for 30 years, and in that time has never been far from controversy over corruption and dubious deals, which were echoed in the wiki leaks from the USA embassy of people within his own party complaining about his corrupt behaviour. I find it more than a stretch that suddenly since 2011 he has suddenly decided the need for reform is so great he is going to take on a unilateral crusade about it. In fact you even suggesting it is laughable. You still really believe that he is acting without consultation with NCPO? There is nothing that can really go wrong from him coming out now and demanding reform. If it stirs up agitation, great it gives them an excuse to delay elections. If no agitation is stirred up, then it would signal to them there is wide support for delays! As I said "maybe" "just putting it out there" hopefully to provoke some sensible debate from thinking people instead of the red/yellow fanatics hijacking the thread. Thanks for your contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Hmmmm...I can not speak for others but I see all of what is said in the article as being an agenda that is about as self serving as self serving can get while they are finding out it takes longer than anticipated to manipulate the system in their favor...until the next coup that is ....and there will be a next coup for sure...as a coup is now considered fair game and all part of the Thai political scene anyhow. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted August 7, 2015 Share Posted August 7, 2015 Hmmmm...I can not speak for others but I see all of what is said in the article as being an agenda that is about as self serving as self serving can get while they are finding out it takes longer than anticipated to manipulate the system in their favor...until the next coup that is ....and there will be a next coup for sure...as a coup is now considered fair game and all part of the Thai political scene anyhow. Cheers You have raised a very good point actually. Coups have become ingrained in Thai culture and are almost 'expected' was it 22 now? and THAT is a very bad thing for Thailand, this 'acceptance' that the Army will take over and rule without a mandate or an election if it so desires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemguy Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Hmmmm...I can not speak for others but I see all of what is said in the article as being an agenda that is about as self serving as self serving can get while they are finding out it takes longer than anticipated to manipulate the system in their favor...until the next coup that is ....and there will be a next coup for sure...as a coup is now considered fair game and all part of the Thai political scene anyhow. Cheers You have raised a very good point actually. Coups have become ingrained in Thai culture and are almost 'expected' was it 22 now? and THAT is a very bad thing for Thailand, this 'acceptance' that the Army will take over and rule without a mandate or an election if it so desires They may very well run the country better than political parties that are always back stabbing one another.....so, there is something to be said about the Military running the show and their supposedly honorable agenda.... But we know better at this point in history that their agenda is not so obvious to many people while they put on a pretty good façade.....but meantime.... they will do a whole lot of good things in various ways that will and do appease the masses of people while often they can accomplish many things that civilian governments seemingly can never orchestrate correctly or complete what they started. For the record, as compared to numerous other Military rule governments throughout the world the Thai military rule governments in the past and presently would be considered benevolent and merciful ...and to their credit for restraining themselves However, everyone has to be reminded and well aware that they are the guys with the guns and they will not hesitate to use them as they see fit while many may remember that nearly all the deaths and many unaccounted for missing persons, during political turmoil and civil unrest in the country, has been at the hands of the military....with complete impunity...for the record. Like Stalin said: One persons death is a tragedy....a thousand peoples deaths are a statistic. Lets say there has been more than just a few random deaths during all the coups that have occurred....so...you know well what can occur again and how nasty it can turn when the Military boys want it their way...any which way they please. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) "This call for the next election to be held after the reform is completed may be just a ploy by some people who do not want to contest an election because they have no chance of winning." For the win! What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand... "free and fair" And sure, reform is desperately needed before this can happen... Reform in the countryside where the Thais have to get rid of the village headman system... it stinks of corruption.. Get rid of Nepotism... another huge source of corruption.. Move policemen around, new locations every 6 months... move civil servants around... different departments.. Corruption is so engrained here in Thai society... so, make the punishment fit the crime.. And , pay fair wages and pension schemes... make it so peoples are afraid to lose those benefits... Allow any person of any party to go into any area and canvass for him/herself... Any citizen selling their votes to be jailed... 6 months... (maybe not enough prisons) But what the hell, I am farang and can go home any time I want... let the Thai people stew in the broth of their own cooking..... Bring Thaksin back, give him the keys of all the cities.... Haha.... All policeman will rejoice with the return of their Messiah...... Rock on Prayuth in your thankless job..! Suicide is painless..... What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand. Not the Democrat party - they don't want a free and fair election, They keep losing. Or refusing to stand for fear of being embarrassed by losing. Again. Edited August 8, 2015 by Bodene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 "This call for the next election to be held after the reform is completed may be just a ploy by some people who do not want to contest an election because they have no chance of winning." For the win! What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand... "free and fair" And sure, reform is desperately needed before this can happen... Reform in the countryside where the Thais have to get rid of the village headman system... it stinks of corruption.. Get rid of Nepotism... another huge source of corruption.. Move policemen around, new locations every 6 months... move civil servants around... different departments.. Corruption is so engrained here in Thai society... so, make the punishment fit the crime.. And , pay fair wages and pension schemes... make it so peoples are afraid to lose those benefits... Allow any person of any party to go into any area and canvass for him/herself... Any citizen selling their votes to be jailed... 6 months... (maybe not enough prisons) But what the hell, I am farang and can go home any time I want... let the Thai people stew in the broth of their own cooking..... Bring Thaksin back, give him the keys of all the cities.... Haha.... All policeman will rejoice with the return of their Messiah...... Rock on Prayuth in your thankless job..! Suicide is painless..... What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand. Not the Democrat party - they don't want a free and fair election, They keep losing. Or refusing to stand for fear of being embarrassed by losing. Again. Boring ! The same old monotonous responses post after post after post. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and look up the meaning of "free and fair elections". Then get back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodene Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 "This call for the next election to be held after the reform is completed may be just a ploy by some people who do not want to contest an election because they have no chance of winning." For the win! What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand... "free and fair" And sure, reform is desperately needed before this can happen... Reform in the countryside where the Thais have to get rid of the village headman system... it stinks of corruption.. Get rid of Nepotism... another huge source of corruption.. Move policemen around, new locations every 6 months... move civil servants around... different departments.. Corruption is so engrained here in Thai society... so, make the punishment fit the crime.. And , pay fair wages and pension schemes... make it so peoples are afraid to lose those benefits... Allow any person of any party to go into any area and canvass for him/herself... Any citizen selling their votes to be jailed... 6 months... (maybe not enough prisons) But what the hell, I am farang and can go home any time I want... let the Thai people stew in the broth of their own cooking..... Bring Thaksin back, give him the keys of all the cities.... Haha.... All policeman will rejoice with the return of their Messiah...... Rock on Prayuth in your thankless job..! Suicide is painless..... What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand. Not the Democrat party - they don't want a free and fair election, They keep losing. Or refusing to stand for fear of being embarrassed by losing. Again. Boring ! The same old monotonous responses post after post after post. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and look up the meaning of "free and fair elections". Then get back to us. No need, I already know. But thanks my friend. ps Are you always this angry? Have you thought of getting help? "I do seem to remember a process where you ask me questions and I give you answers and then I ask questions and you give me answers and that's the way we find out things. I think I read that in a manual somewhere." But I don't remember personal insults coming into it. Perhaps we were brought up differently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 almost as boring as the regulator more or less saying the 2011 elections were fair, losers always whine.. But why did the Democrats not stand in the 2014 election? and were poised to boycott the July one, despite all the TFV experts bleating on and on about the PTP being the minority? If there was ever a chance to prove the Dems were up for it, without the military's help, it was then.. but alas, the largest sound heard over Bangkok in 2014 was the sound of Abhist's bottle crashing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linky Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 "This call for the next election to be held after the reform is completed may be just a ploy by some people who do not want to contest an election because they have no chance of winning." For the win! What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand... "free and fair" And sure, reform is desperately needed before this can happen... Reform in the countryside where the Thais have to get rid of the village headman system... it stinks of corruption.. Get rid of Nepotism... another huge source of corruption.. Move policemen around, new locations every 6 months... move civil servants around... different departments.. Corruption is so engrained here in Thai society... so, make the punishment fit the crime.. And , pay fair wages and pension schemes... make it so peoples are afraid to lose those benefits... Allow any person of any party to go into any area and canvass for him/herself... Any citizen selling their votes to be jailed... 6 months... (maybe not enough prisons) But what the hell, I am farang and can go home any time I want... let the Thai people stew in the broth of their own cooking..... Bring Thaksin back, give him the keys of all the cities.... Haha.... All policeman will rejoice with the return of their Messiah...... Rock on Prayuth in your thankless job..! Suicide is painless..... What nonsense.... everyone and their dog wants a free and fair election in Thailand. Not the Democrat party - they don't want a free and fair election, They keep losing. Or refusing to stand for fear of being embarrassed by losing. Again. Boring ! The same old monotonous responses post after post after post. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and look up the meaning of "free and fair elections". Then get back to us. The regulator already found the last elections fair. Next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuanku Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Suthep only does what is good for suthep. I think he got enough offers from the man in Dubai to be silent in exchange of a nice bank account in Singapore.....Staying in dirt for many month without profit is surely not the best thing he could have for himself I doubt it. You only buy a man if you can trust him to stay bought - and Suthep does not fall into that category. " ..... as a rubber corkscrew" springs to mind. Funny you should say that but a friendly gentleman engaged me in conversation on Walking Street just the other day and offered to supply me with a virgin - I think he said it was his sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taff33 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 (edited) Suthep only does what is good for suthep. I think he got enough offers from the man in Dubai to be silent in exchange of a nice bank account in Singapore.....Staying in dirt for many month without profit is surely not the best thing he could have for himself most stupid post of the month award do you have a SHRED of evidence? link? quote? or are you just making it up as usual? As he frequently bought MPs and offered money for them to change sides.....Well known the amounts with the Abhisit government when they had to lock the MPs in a hotel because someone very close to Thaksin tried to buy some out of it. Or lets remember the pastry box in court. You don't seriously believe that the man in Dubai wouldn't pay 500 Million or 1 billion if the demonstrations go away with it. The profit from being in government is much higher. Of course he offered it.....it would be totally silly not to do so. No one ever accused him to be silly or not seeing a profit. h90. You are so full <deleted> perhaps you need the wagon to empty you. Edited August 9, 2015 by taff33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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