Is it easy for an Australian to start a business in Thailand?

[lostinisaan]

Are you really trying to make a living with your restaurant idea?

More cafe style - healthy eating with some thai but mostly healthy western style dishes!

The people I know worked really hard and they had to invest a lot of cash. You want to attract customers who like to come back.

You do not seem to know how many coffee shop styled places pop up almost everywhere, but you seldom see people in them.

And for the healthy Western style dishes, they're expensive, but people don't want to pay a lot of money for a dish. Please go and buy some decent cheese, meat, etc...

Things have gotten really expensive. have you ever thought about how much you'd have to pay per month for a decent place? Then add WiFi, electricity, water, salary for the waiter/waitresses. etc....

If I were you, I'd really think twice, as you don't even know where you' want to set this up. And some Thai people might set you up.

Or foreigners? If there's a foreigner near your place, already well established, you'll wish that you hadn't invest so much money for nothing.

Go and have a look what a good coffee machine costs. Think about the investment and what you can make a day....

I wanna be honest, not trying to destroy your dream of living in Thailand, but it seems that you didn't do your homework. And the teacher will find that out when you come to school.................

You'll need a good planning, have some Thais as employees and enough money to survive dry times. The Thai bureaucracy can make your life miserable, your place can burn down because somebody in the hood doesn't want you there. And so on................

BTW, have you even thought about the fact that people get sick? Then the visa situation. I know some people who're still struggling with their restaurant.

One can be the manager, but on what work permit will your partner be? Questions over questions. And not too many answers, that might make you happy.

Edited August 16, 2015 by lostinisaan

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

OP I am not a negative type of guy but for us living here newbies come in on a daily basis with stars in their eyes and leave with swollen eyes. What I would suggest you do is to come and stay in the towns you thinking about and experience the cultures in those towns, then you can decide if you want to continue. I think its like me wanting to open a business in Australia without ever living there, its just not on.

[simple1]

Thailand permits majority Australian ownership of major restaurants or hotels (up to 60%). The previous limit was 49.9%.

http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/tafta/pages/key-outcomes-of-the-thailand-australia-free-trade-agreement.aspx

Anyone familiar with TV will know that Thai officials make up their own rules. Would be amazed if they allowed an Australian to own 60%!

Any Australians reading TV getting the visa concessions described in TAFTA?

All these regulations apply ONLY to big multi national companies, notice the words? MAJOR restaurants or hotels.

How convenient that the idiots in the Australian Government who negotiated this neglected to define "major".

Never heard of anyone getting any of the concessions supposedly available to all Australian citizens. A smart Australian Government world revoke TAFTA!

Oz trade with Thailand has doubled since the signing of TAFTA in 2005

[12DrinkMore]

I have followed several restaurant businesses.

A lot of initial investment, time and agony. Then past that stage and halfway reliable staff are on board, things get into a routine, costs under control, smallish profits start rolling in.

BAM!!!

The three year leasehold is up for renewal, the landlord checks out how nicely you have upgraded his property, works out roughly what profits you are making, and then puts up the rent so you end up at square one, working to pay the rent.

Add in the reluctance to provide a receipt for the full rent, he does not pay tax, which puts the burden onto you, as you cannot claim the full rent against tax.

The three years comes from the requirements to register a lease over three years at the land department. Landlords do not want to register anything official.

And once the restaurant is running, you cannot leave it. It is hands on all the time.

Good luck.

[laobali]

You'd be better off just throwing your money in the trash can - it would save you all the paperwork, hassles, bribes, and intimidation which will take place before your restaurant fails and you're left with nothing.

Tend to agree. It was not that difficult or risky when I started a small restaurant in the late 90s. Just a lot of hassle, endured for the need for financial survival at the time. I wouldn't consider it now. If you've the capital to start this, avoid the trash can and keep it outside Thailand!

[khun custard]

From one Aussie to another

How much can a Koala bear??
Compared to Thailand, doing biz in Australia is a Nanny State specially if it is F&B biz

Mind you, if being thoroughly "romanced" in all aspects of: finding a Thai biz partner & the pre opening phase; paying out ongoing "Tea Money" as an acceptable ongoing operating expense is more appealing than a mind set of compliance, competing with the next Whos' Kitchen Rules, health inspectors and council, labor and everything rates then go for it!!!!

Have you considered Cambodia, more specifically Seim Reap... still plenty of opportunities at acceptable levels of risk for those seeking a Pioneering Experience

Good Luck

[TSF]

Both Phuket & Chiang Mai are super saturated with every type of restaurant imaginable, personally I would not consider opening a retaurant today in one of Thailand's major tourist hubs but would possibly consider doing so in a smaller destination. I suggest getting out and about and look for a nice spot that has tourism potential but is not yet over-developed, like Phuket & Chiang Mai are.

[AlexRRR]

Lot of near empty restaurants in touristy areas on my last visit 3 months back....Ko Samuai Chiang Mai and Hua Hin.

If you want positive feedback i recommend you get some market research done, its doable if you know what your doing but some how i could think of better ways to kill my time in the land of smiles than risk my money when the competition is so fierce.

I think the set up will be enough to turn you off, to get a work permit you would have to form a company and employ 4 Thais, 2 foreigners....may have to double that then the % of ownership issue.

[Robert24]

Do your due diligence , i think when all your visa and setup costs are accounted for and you take into account that Phuket tourists numbers are no longer a reflection of the boom years the obvious will come to you, be careful.

I thought tourist numbers are up significantly. Maybe you are referring to more Asian vs Western tourists....

[konying]

OP, I will only comment on 1 aspect of the business, as I own one.

Chefs/cooks

Unless you planning to be one, you can forget your idea because

1. Chefs here are alcoholics

2. Because of reason 1, often they do not show up to work or require few shots of whisky during work to cook eatable food.

3. You would need to train them on how to cook healthy and they are not the fastest learners especially with language barriers.

4. They steal

5. They have no idea how to keep stock control , so often you may hear , something is finished when order is placed.

6. Anyone with half a brain and some experience asks for really high salary, ie your prices have to rise.

Now if you decide to overcome all 6 by replacing the cook, you would need either new menu or training again, which means crappy food in the mean time.

[Asiantravel]

Do your due diligence , i think when all your visa and setup costs are accounted for and you take into account that Phuket tourists numbers are no longer a reflection of the boom years the obvious will come to you, be careful.

good point!I couldn't imagine the pricing structure at the OP' s proposed restaurant would be cheap so they would be targeting a limited number of people who are interested in health food.I would also think the potential numbers of customers are going to shrink due to the global economic downturn. it would be touch and go

[ronthai]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[konying]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

How has it gotten worse for farangs?

[nowretired]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

How has it gotten worse for farangs?

Well...........The price of Marmite has increased!

[Soutpeel]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

How has it gotten worse for farangs?

I am curious as to the answer to that question as well

Granted the arse fell out of a lot of farang pensions as regards exchange rates but you can hardly blame Thailand for that

In my 14 years here really struggling to come up.with has made things harder for farangs per se

[Soutpeel]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

How has it gotten worse for farangs?

Well...........The price of Marmite has increased!

No it must be the fare increase for baht busses

[konying]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

How has it gotten worse for farangs?

I am curious as to the answer to that question as well

Granted the arse fell out of a lot of farang pensions as regards exchange rates but you can hardly blame Thailand for that

In my 14 years here really struggling to come up.with has made things harder for farangs per se

I am guessing he could be referring to visa regulations being tightened up, but business visa's have not been affected at all.

Might also be referring to crack down on nominee shareholders, but then again, they always did that time to time and hardly a crack down when thousands of companies operate in this way and only a few get targeted. and usually the prominent ones

[nowretired]

OP, you ask a very basic question, which means you have NOT done any real research, besides visiting another restaurant 4 times in the past 18 months.

Take your time, do more and more research (NOT on TVF, mostly negative, but realistic people).

Take 1-2 years more, save up more money with your friend.

Visit other Asian countries.

Thailand is in turmoil, nobody knows where all will go.

It could get better or worse for farangs, the past 10 years it has only gotten worse every year.

Always ONLY spend what you can loose. Do NOT expect to break even or make a profit from day one. Have plenty of backup money you are also willing to loose.

You will need a "trusted" Thai to communicate with you staff. A Thai that listens to you, which will be the hardest part.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

How has it gotten worse for farangs?

Well...........The price of Marmite has increased!

No it must be the fare increase for baht busses

No Baht buses here its the Marmite!

[ericthai]

Lets spin the following question to the OP whats your reasoning for doing this ?

Do you already run a sucesssful chain of restaurants in Aussie and wish to expand into Thailand ?

Or is this just another variation on the classic cliche of buying a bar ?

I am thinking of opening up a healthy restaurant/cafe with a nutrition friend of mine. I would like it to be in Phuket close to the where westerners go for bootcamp/physical training. We both have run businesses before. I love thailand - I love the climate/people and way of life. We don't want to be millionaires but want to make enough to cover our costs and live comfortably.

And have you done your research to see if there are already similar business already being run ?

" i love the climate/people and way of life" suggests to me you have spent that much time living in Thailand and certainly in Phuket which has some very dark under tones in the business work

Yes I have done some research and visited the areas I like 4 x in the past 18 months. My main concerns are whether it is worth it and whether there are many obstacles that could be encountered.

Any undertones you could warn me of? - I am open to all input. I don't want to make a decision about doing this without being informed.

Are you living full time in Thailand right now? If so how many years? If not you should think about moving to Thailand and living here for awhile before you open a company. I opened a company in Thailand but only after living in Thailand for 7 years. You need to learn how things work, learn some Thai language. You cant go to the govt and take your girlfriend with you or someone and else and hope they understand what the govt official is telling you and hope they translate it correctly to you. You will also need a Thai partner you can trust. Lucky for me I'm from the USA so was able to own our company 100%, if I had to have a Thai partners it would have taken some time to select the right person. I have several Thai friends that own companies but there is only 1 or 2 that I would really trust to be partners with.

I have two friends that own bars, both work hard to keep things running. It's a difficult market. One is a beer bar and he has to be hands on all the time for the place to operate and then he only makes maybe 50K - 80K a month, not much. Another is doing good he opened a night club in BKK and packs in the Thai's and expats, always having new DJ's coming in. He is doing good but also very hands on and allot of work. I have no idea how much he makes, but really he is financially set so the club is more or less for something to do.

I would go visit the other places you talk about and see if you can speak to the owner and find out how they are doing during slow season, get as much info from them as possible. I wouldn't tell them you are looking at opening a place as then they will give you bad info. Tell them you are doing an internet article on opening a business in Thailand or something like that.

I wish you luck as you will need it. Thailand is a beautiful place and I love it, but it's difficult to do business in.

[fstarbkk]

I would specifically caution against opening any small/ medium foreign run business in Phuket for the following reasons:

Almost every restaurant operator I know here (Thai or foreign), has told me of the impossibility of putting together and/or maintaining a good, professional Thai staff. Phuket is rich, expensive and plagued by a chronic lack of good labor. Staff loyalty is zero and they will walk on you for a few baht extra or just because they can.

Corruption is considerably worse here than elsewhere in Thailand. If your business is even marginally successful, you will find a long line of officials and local mafiosi holding out their hand at the front door. If it is REALLY successful, some of them will find a way to screw you out of it.

I also know Chiangmai quite well and, in my opinion, your odds are much better up there.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do!

[hellohello123]

My input.

Ive done 4 businesses over the years in my home country.all different industries. One of them was a restaurant (and yes my passion is hospitality )

Have had 1 failure and 3 successes. However the successes were decent but short lived (lots of reasons.....long story)

I have one piece of advice that i give anyone wanting to start a business.

Just because you do a business doesnt mean you will succeed. Only a small portion succeed. Add to the fact that you are now dealing with a foreign culture

If it were so easy. Everyone would be doing it. Also just because entry costs are low eg lower rent. Wages. Ingredients etc etc etc . Doesnt make the business more likely of success.

Lower costs. Rent . Wages etc means lower NET margins overall comparing apples and apples to back home

[lostinisaan]

From one Aussie to another

How much can a Koala bear??

Compared to Thailand, doing biz in Australia is a Nanny State specially if it is F&B biz

Mind you, if being thoroughly "romanced" in all aspects of: finding a Thai biz partner & the pre opening phase; paying out ongoing "Tea Money" as an acceptable ongoing operating expense is more appealing than a mind set of compliance, competing with the next Whos' Kitchen Rules, health inspectors and council, labor and everything rates then go for it!!!!

Have you considered Cambodia, more specifically Seim Reap... still plenty of opportunities at acceptable levels of risk for those seeking a Pioneering Experience

Good Luck

Or maybe considering Laos, as it seems to be a booming lace for all sorts of business.

[TechnikaIII]

No foreigner owned business can even operate until you find out who to bribe. If that puts you off, then certainly forget about Phuket.

[konying]

No foreigner owned business can even operate until you find out who to bribe. If that puts you off, then certainly forget about Phuket.

Sorry but that is just rubbish.

I own 3 businesses, hotel, restaurant and a bar.

Bar does not have any girls or boys, does not stay open past midnight, and does not play any music, just TV and i have never had to bribe anyone to be in business.

I do give "donation" when i need to renew license, but its only so that i can have it in 10 mins, instead waiting for few weeks.

I also pay 1500 baht per MONTH to local police station and that is to have daily police patrols and direct number in case of emergency.This is not forced on to you and is NOT actually easy to get, so hardly a bribe

[catman20]

yer great idea if you want to make a small fortune here in Thailand start with a big one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited August 16, 2015 by catman20

[catman20]

No foreigner owned business can even operate until you find out who to bribe. If that puts you off, then certainly forget about Phuket.

Sorry but that is just rubbish.

I own 3 businesses, hotel, restaurant and a bar.

Bar does not have any girls or boys, does not stay open past midnight, and does not play any music, just TV and i have never had to bribe anyone to be in business.

I do give "donation" when i need to renew license, but its only so that i can have it in 10 mins, instead waiting for few weeks.

I also pay 1500 baht per MONTH to local police station and that is to have daily police patrols and direct number in case of emergency.This is not forced on to you and is NOT actually easy to get, so hardly a bribe

another successful story

[gigman]

Same advise could get a Thai fellow trying to open a business in Australia ....but

First of all..

I would spend some time (maybe a year) to just rent cheap place and just watch everything around you first and go places to see what others are doing in business including tourists.

Second of all

Take the Thai courses (it is around $1000AU per year I paid/ 2 or 3 times a week 3hours per lesson)

it will help you a lot .Education 1 year visa cost me $240 doll in Brisbane but this office is closed permanently now.

Third of all

Get some local decent Thai woman but never ever say a word about your plans.

She should help you a lot with Thai spoken language.(Thai is not so hard to learn)

Be active a lot watching what local people are eating but start from places where no westerners.....then look what they eat in big places...

Simply saying learn this country as poor man and maybe you will understand what you should avoid in your plans before you go on approaching paper work and other obstacles from officials.

This way you will loose some money but it will be your working holiday and not business failure and loss.

If you find cheap condo and live reasonably then $1000AU per month will be more then enough to stay.

[hutchings1963]

Best is you you to come here and see what is happening with this junta,restaurants and bars closing because they are 300metres from a school or university,just look at all the empty shops,you want to lose money just come here,or better send it to me,for a start before you start invest in brown envelopes because you are going to need them.

[tony5150]

Thailand permits majority Australian ownership of major restaurants or hotels (up to 60%). The previous limit was 49.9%.

http://dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/tafta/pages/key-outcomes-of-the-thailand-australia-free-trade-agreement.aspx

Anyone familiar with TV will know that Thai officials make up their own rules. Would be amazed if they allowed an Australian to own 60%!

Any Australians reading TV getting the visa concessions described in TAFTA?

All these regulations apply ONLY to big multi national companies, notice the words? MAJOR restaurants or hotels.

True...if you've got name brand behind you the Thais won't <deleted> with you. In fact they'd bend over to allow your business in LOS.

[beerzy]

If you want some very good advice from someone that owned restaurants in Australia and has now lived in Thailand for 7 years, forget it, the thing that Thai people do more than anything else is sell food, small street selling to big restaurants , it is very competitive in Australia but 200 times more in Thailand, things that are a good idea in other countrys are not always good in Thailand, Thai people will in the main only eat Thai food, doing it for tourist is a easy way to go broke , inconsistence up and down all the time low seasons high seasons not good, with all that it would be very difficult to do and not worth the trouble, look at restaurant that are for sale and do some research you will soon forget the idea.

I agree wholeheartly. the only place you might survive is Bangkok where the money and jobs are. less seasonal factors than tourist spots. I even looked at Hua Hin whicj=h has a large expat population but they have the seasonal influences at play and expats head back to Europe in low season fortheir summer.