dirtycash Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 just a question . my daughter born in uk, me and wifey are divorcing. is it possible that she would be allowed to leave uk with my kid in future if she took it into her head. as i say just a question at minute but a thought which i am concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony M Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I don't see why not. She is the child's mother, after all. If you don't want her to be able to so, then I think you must see a lawyer, and have the child made a Ward of Court. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7by7 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 It's a complicated area, and there is, of course, a big difference between taking the child abroad temporarily and permanently.But I guess it's permanently you are concerned about.Can I take my child to live abroad without my ex’s permission? If a parent wishes to take a child permanently abroad, the permission of the other parent or the court must be sought. If you are considering relocating with your child to another country, you should consult a specialist solicitor for advice before doing so.Applying for leave to removeIf you are a parent and you intend to move abroad with your child permanently and your ex has parental responsibility (or court proceedings about the child are ongoing), you cannot simply ‘up and leave’.You first need to seek permission from your ex (and anyone else with parental responsibility). If, as may often happen due to the sensitive nature of the request, your ex does not agree to the move, the permission of the court must be sought. Of course, the other parent may decide to simply 'up and leave' with the child.If you are concerned that your ex may do this then you will should speak to a family solicitor about obtaining a court order to prevent her from so doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I think the term "ward of Court" is old hat and there are a number of options under section 8 of the Children act 1989 which could be used to prevent her tacking the child out of the UK assuming the child is under 16. What is most important here is the "Child's Best Interests" and that is the position from which the courts will look at it. Importantly get professional legal advice from a solicitor or CAB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SantiSuk Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Not if you have put your daughter's passport in your office safe or Mum's house 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrussell Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Talk to your solicitor. If you feel it is a real risk then you need to apply to the court for an order preventing the removal of the child from the UK without permission from the other parent with parental responsibility. Obviously if you have the passport(s), this will postpone the risk. This can be done quickly! https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/265613/Int_Child_Abduction_1113_AW.pdf This is a very common concern for separating parents but not so common in the real world (still a growing problem though). The terminology is a 'Prohibited steps order' and there should be a port alert in place to highlight the attempted use of the passport. All of this is non-judgemental so acts as a holding exercise until the court (and parents) agree the arrangements for the child's care as the divorce progresses. The courts may well grant a residence order that details where the child lives and can prevent foreign travel (including Scotland if issued in England or Wales). Went through this with one of my nieces. For peace of mind I would suggest getting on with it but then (marriage guidance alert!!) slow down, let everything calm down and sort things out as amicably as possible! My niece now has absolutely the best of all worlds, parents communicate (just) and common sense has prevailed! Edited August 17, 2015 by bobrussell 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toscano Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 bobrussell Sound advice , I experienced this with my former American wife wanting to take our children to the US , early in divorce proceedings . I found out and quickly had it stopped , all passports were held by solicitors . The following year she wanted to take them again . My lawyer arrange for court pemission that they travel on British passports only and that my father-in-law be made responsible for their safe returm . Later the court social worker recommended that I have sole custody and care ; I didn't seek either as the children were old enough to decide for themselves where the wanted to be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Well, one thing about most Thai women, they tend to put forth or revert to very childlike behaviour in these situations and bite of there noses to spite there face. So anything you can do to protect your daughter, do now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathon Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Some years ago I gained custody of my daughter through divorce proceedings in the UK from my Thai wife who then returned here. So it is not impossible. However it was costly as my wife was on legal aid and in all cases where a child is involved the child protection people (whatever name they go by now) will have their say, extending the proceedings . Do not believe that these people can be relied upon to make the right decision. Their views would be seen as seriously biased in favour of the mother by most right minded individuals. Eventually I succeeded but you will have to provide substantial reasons to show that your kid's interests are best served by remaining with you. Make sure you have a well experienced solicitor to argue your case and be prepared for opposition from the authorites. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddinChonburi Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would make sure that the kids passport was held by someone not sure who but I bet the courts can handle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puerto Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Having been through this with my ex Filipino wife. My experience was that if you alert Immigration your are divorcing, and concerned that your wife may try to take your child without your permission. Immigration will stop her leaving with the child, she needs your written consent to leave the UK with your child. Things change so keep uo with present rules. I am talking 5 years ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtycash Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 very sound advice taken. thankyou DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquorice Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I was a single parent with 4 kids. I was also a registered Foster carer with a young girl placed in my care. We annually had vacations abroad and not once was I ever stopped or questioned about taking 5 kids out of the Country. I'm talking kids aged 4-12, four girls, one boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrussell Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 A child travelling with a parent (or carer) is unlikely to be questioned or stopped under normal circumstances. This is the whole point of getting a Prohibited Steps order! The passports will be flagged up on the system to (hopefully) prevent the passport being used. The key issue is more that anyone flouting such an order is likely to be held in contempt of court, with the consequences that has. Now all passports are supposed to be logged on the way out of the country (plus the worries of people trying to travel to Syria etc) the system should be more robust. Even with a Residence order permission is usually required for holidays over 4 weeks accompanied by the resident parent. Permission from the non-resident parent is generally required for longer trips. Travelling within the EU is much lower risk as there are very robust mechanisms to get 'abducted' children back quickly. How well they work I cannot say because thankfully we did not have this problem. I was never questioned taking my children abroad, including Thailand but they were never flagged up on any system! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catman20 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 when you marry you put your trust in some else's hands and how can you trust a woman there not made normal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keesters Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Please respect the child's wishes assuming he/she is old enough to communicate. That goes for you and your wife. The child should always be consulted when deciding with whom or where he/she lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampdonkey Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Not if you have put your daughter's passport in your office safe or Mum's house Yes that will work because she can only ever get one passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampdonkey Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No court in the UK will separate mother and child unless there is extreme circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No court in the UK will separate mother and child unless there is extreme circumstances Not true... They consider the Child's best interest, that is normally with the mother but not always... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puchooay Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 You say that your daughter was born in UK. Does she have a Thai passport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 bobrussell Sound advice , I experienced this with my former American wife wanting to take our children to the US , early in divorce proceedings . I found out and quickly had it stopped , all passports were held by solicitors . The following year she wanted to take them again . My lawyer arrange for court pemission that they travel on British passports only and that my father-in-law be made responsible for their safe returm . Later the court social worker recommended that I have sole custody and care ; I didn't seek either as the children were old enough to decide for themselves where the wanted to be . Good advice on the passport being held by a solicitor, and the solicitor making it clear that he has the passport(s) therefore should the other party claim the passports are lost they would be committing an offence one way or another. I realise that there are no physical passport checks on persons leaving the UK, but with the integration of airlines check-in (and I assume ferries and euro Tunnel) to Immigration will this flag up children leaving the UK on foreign passports that do not show entry into the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampdonkey Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 No court in the UK will separate mother and child unless there is extreme circumstances Not true... They consider the Child's best interest, that is normally with the mother but not always... I said in extreme circumstances. Can you tell me when it would be in the child's best interest to be separated from its mother that wouldn't come under extreme circumstances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobrussell Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Getting a Prohibited Steps Order is the sticking plaster on a wound. It makes removal of the child from the UK an offense with hefty penalties that few would risk. As things calm down, parents start to make decisions which should include taking the child's wishes into account. The divorce court will require evidence that the child's best interests have been considered. If parents cannot do this for themselves then the court will take advice and do it for them! Perhaps the default position is that a child is better with the mother but there are plenty of situations where the child does not remain with the mother. As long as everyone starts to act as grown ups then things generally are resolved but obviously not everyone is a grown up! The OP's question has, hopefully been answered! Get legal advice without delay! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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