Residency in Spain prior to using Surinder Singh route to UK

[beano2274]

For the German embassy, my wife translated the marriage certificate into English, got it stamped by the translator and the MFA, then also used a translator service recommended by the German Embassy and had it translated however, we did not use it as we got a tourist visa from Italy, my wife arrived in Munich, then we registered her here, and then applied and received a Residence Permit, this is not the correct way to do things, but

we achieved our goal, that was 2 years ago.

Wish you luck, but why not try to get a Tourist visa for Spain, then register her for a residence permit.

[bobrussell]

Post deleted as already covered by previous post

Edited January 11, 2016 by bobrussell

[nerjaron]

beano2274 - thanks for your message. I had heard of this before but after all the problems we have endured I couldn't believe that it could actually be that simple. Someone at the Embassy suggested getting the normal 3 month Schengen visa to get my wife to Spain initially and then apply for the residency visa once we are in Spain. I understand she would need to have a return flight booked back to Bangkok (for the Schengen visa) plus health insurance but that would be a small price to pay if the rest of the process went smoothly. Naturally my wife is worried that if she is rejected in Spain after cutting ties with her employment she would have to return to Bangkok with nothing which is probably the main reason why we have not tested this route. I would be very grateful if you could give me any further information - was it straightforward once you got to Germany even though your wife originally arrived on a tourist (Schengen) visa?

[wooloomooloo]

I really am distraught over this matter and divorcing my wife seems to be the only way forward ...

Your wife is your wife, surely? The harder the journey, the more glorious the victory.

[mgb]

@nerjaron

It looks like your wife applied for a visa typ D due to spanish law.

This is the wrong way.

First your wife should apply for a visa for a family member of a EU citizen.

If you look at the application form from here

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/es/ServiciosAlCiudadano/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Documents/Impreso%20de%20solicitud.pdf

Field 21 mark other and write family member eu.

Field 24 multiple entries

Field 25 the number 90

Field 29 and Field 30 a 6 month period

Field 34 your personal data

and so on.

If your wife want to stay longer than 90 day in spain she has to apply for a residence card for a family member of a EU citizen in spain.

Btw. the marriage certificate should be legalized from the spainish embassy in Bangkok for the residence card application.

[beano2274]

beano2274 - thanks for your message. I had heard of this before but after all the problems we have endured I couldn't believe that it could actually be that simple. Someone at the Embassy suggested getting the normal 3 month Schengen visa to get my wife to Spain initially and then apply for the residency visa once we are in Spain. I understand she would need to have a return flight booked back to Bangkok (for the Schengen visa) plus health insurance but that would be a small price to pay if the rest of the process went smoothly. Naturally my wife is worried that if she is rejected in Spain after cutting ties with her employment she would have to return to Bangkok with nothing which is probably the main reason why we have not tested this route. I would be very grateful if you could give me any further information - was it straightforward once you got to Germany even though your wife originally arrived on a tourist (Schengen) visa?

We had no issues at all, firstly went to the local Government office to register here as here, then to the main office to get the Residence Permit, had to have my work contract and a few other documents with me, but was no issue at the time. Did help that I speak the language.

We are actually trying to get my MIL across now, but here she will require a National Visa, as the Embassy send all the documents to Munich for the Government office to check and make a decision, once the decision is made *if positive* then the Embassy will issue the Visa.

Edited January 12, 2016 by beano2274

[Riley'sLife]

OP.... The problems you are experiencing with the Spanish Embassy requiring your wife to provide UK certified documents that her marrriage is recognition by the UK is just the first hurdle.

The fatal flaw in your plan is that - at the present time, and regardless of any EU Law or recent EU case Law - the Surinda Singh route is only open to a returning UK citizen and non-EU citizen spouse (etc) when it can be demonstrated that the returning UK citizen exercised their EU Treaty Rights following economic activity in another EU country.

In short, you will need to prove "centre of life", and "economic activity" with tax/wage slips etc.

So, if you think it's just the Spanish being obtuse, wait until you try to use the SS Route as a retiree at UK Immigration !!

(I can hear you saying "recent case law"......but UK Imm insist not applicable for UK.......ask a specialist UK Immigration lawyer if you need confirmation.)

I empathise with your plight as I am currently attempting a workaround and am anxious to use the SS Route as soon as possible, fearing any 2016 pre-Brexit negotiations may move the goalposts.

[nerjaron]

All

Thank you for your further contributions, my struggle is clearly going to get worse and my wife and I are facing the grim prospect of being condemned to live in separate countries for ever. MGB the application we made was for a family visa although we answered the questions differently:-

Field 21 Join husband

Field 24 Multiple entries

Field 25 Permanent

Field 29 Date entered

Field 30 blank

and so on. It may be that they didn't like the fact that I didn't show a departure date? How do you mean our marriage certificate should be "legalized" by the Spanish embassy? Why would they "legalize" a document which they have already rejected as evidence that we are legally married? I don't quite understand this point, can you clarify please.

beano2274 thank you for the further information. It seems that the fatal flaw in my plan, as pointed out by Riley'sLife, is the fact that I cannot prove "economic activity" as I as long since retired although when I lived in Spain with my family a number of years ago I did work in a self employed capacity as a jobbing builder/electrician/plumber etc. although I have no paperwork to support this. I could certainly provide evidence of "centre of life" but not of work.

Anyway, thank you all again for your advice, if anything further develops I will post it here.

[mgb]

Did you submit the visa application or where you dissuaded to submit the application form.

Normally if a visa application for a family member get denied it has to be in writing with all reasons mentioned.

Regarding the marriage certificate I know from one case where a person did it the same way as described from beano2274. Translation in english and stamp from the MFA. Translation in spanish and stamp from the spanish embassy.

[nerjaron]

mgb - the application was lodged and a day or two later my wife received a phone call from the Embassy stating that they could not process it further without the "missing" document. My wife was instructed to return to the Embassy to retrieve the application and supporting documents, and lo and behold their staff had already made some annotations on the application form and stamped it with their "Received" stamp! My wife picked up the documents but they gave her nothing in writing. She does however have the original application with their notes and date stamp.

We had the marriage certificate translated into English and stamped by the MFA in accordance with the Spanish requirements - they have not contested the fact that we are married, they are demanding this specifically worded document from the UK authorities which nobody is prepared to give me. I will however suggest to my wife that she has the certificate translated into Spanish and try again!

[mgb]

There are 2 procedures. Visa and application for a residence card for a family member of a EU citizen in Spain. In Spain you need a legalized marriage certificate.

If you need a legalization anyway it is maybe a good idea to do this as the first step.

After that if your wife apply for a visa I don't think the spanish embassy can deny their own stamp.

If there are still problems your wife should insist on a rejection in writing.

[nerjaron]

Thanks again mgb, I will certainly ask my wife to try to have the certificate "legalized". Unfortunately as with most Thais my wife is non-confrontational and she will not stand her ground if they fob her off without a written decision. There has been one small development - after writing to my MP he subsequently contacted the FCO in London who in turn contacted the British Embassy in Bangkok who have agreed to stamp our marriage certificate which apparently the Spanish Embassy have said they will accept. This remains to be seen (hence the reason why we will still try to have the certificate legalized) but my wife is going to the British Embassy tomorrow to avail herself of the first part of this arrangement. I have replied to my MP that whilst I will be happy to at last see justice done, this is apparently a concession in our case only and will not help future applicants who are subjected to the same nightmare!

Edited January 21, 2016 by nerjaron

[mgb]

If you want to help future applicants you could lodge a complaint at the EU commission.

http://ec.europa.eu/atwork/applying-eu-law/make_a_complaint_en.htm

You should point out that Solvit was not able to help and every applicant is affected from the spanish rules at the leaflet you got from the embassy.

[Richard W]

I noticed yesterday that the British consulate in Spain issues a Certificate of Foreign Marriage Recognition. The referenced information says to contact them at [email protected] if you are asked for this certificate to get a visa to enter Spain.

[7by7]

<snip>

I have replied to my MP that whilst I will be happy to at last see justice done, this is apparently a concession in our case only and will not help future applicants who are subjected to the same nightmare!

I am glad that you do seem to be getting somewhere; but sad that you still seem to be blaming the wrong people!

As has been repeatedly said, the people who are subjecting you to this injustice are the Spanish embassy and government for insisting that your wife provides a document which, according to the EEA freedom of movement regulations, is most definitely not required and which doesn't exist anyway.

This is an EEA/EU matter, not a UK one and doing as mgb suggests and lodging a complaint with the EU commission will have more effect on the Spanish government than your reply to your MP, it certainly couldn't have less!

If enough people complain in this way, or someone has the time and resources to take them to court, then they will be forced to change their ways and fall into line with the regulations and the rest of the EEA states.

[post]

nerjaron, on 21 Jan 2016 - 21:45, said:

Thanks again mgb, I will certainly ask my wife to try to have the certificate "legalized". Unfortunately as with most Thais my wife is non-confrontational and she will not stand her ground if they fob her off without a written decision. There has been one small development - after writing to my MP he subsequently contacted the FCO in London who in turn contacted the British Embassy in Bangkok who have agreed to stamp our marriage certificate which apparently the Spanish Embassy have said they will accept. This remains to be seen (hence the reason why we will still try to have the certificate legalized) but my wife is going to the British Embassy tomorrow to avail herself of the first part of this arrangement. I have replied to my MP that whilst I will be happy to at last see justice done, this is apparently a concession in our case only and will not help future applicants who are subjected to the same nightmare!

Do you mind telling the wording of the stamp?

[tebee]

I have this legalization stamp on the back of my marriage certificate - cost about £35 from the British Embassy if I remember right.