How Could I Make My German Lessons More Efficient?

[lostinisaan]

Hello and Sawasdee khrap,

I'm tutoring some Thai people from time to time in German and I'm trying to find better ( easier?) ways to teach them.

Right now, I have to use English and Thai as the languages of instruction to explain certain rules in grammar, vocabulary and sentence structure.

Der- Die- Das, the German gender problem seems to be a huge problem to teach.

Why's a table (der) masculine and a child a thing= (das)? The joke is that there's no explanation, no way to make people understand why it is as it is.

You have to learn it. I'd deeply appreciate to have other peoples' opinions regarding teaching the German language.

Thanks a lot in advance for any useful input. Bedankt. Danke. Khop Khun Khrap. Gracias. Kop Khun La Lai.

Edited September 10, 2015 by lostinisaan

[MrTee]

How to make German more efficient..

hmmmm....


I love the internet.

[andre47]

A very nice webpage about learning the German language is

http://www.deutschseite.de/index.html

and the lesson about the genders is here

http://www.deutschseite.de/grammatik/geschlecht/geschlecht.html

Hope this helps...

[Misterwhisper]

The gender classification is one of the biggest mine fields for every German language student. Unfortunately, there is no other way than to learn it by heart.

As you already noted: it is the way it is.

Even a German linguistics professor would have a hard time to explain why a child is neutral (das), the moon is masculine (der) and the sun is feminine (die). There is no system of rules that one could follow.

Now... try confronting your Thai students with the German genitive like, for example, "des Vaters Sohn", and see what happens. There are indeed rules how to decline nouns in genitive, but it's another thing to explain them - and make them understood.

Good luck!

[DogNo1]

Beyond the grammar lessons, I think that the best way is lots of communicative practice - listening, speaking, reading, and writing. As someone else has commented, it just has to be learned by heart. Calling der, die and das masculine, feminine and neuter is just a naming convention. It doesn't correspond with human gender. In studying German, I found remembering the gender of nouns difficult but my professor had designed a road map of the German verb system which made it easy to understand. No amount of repetitive practice, including flash cards, seemed to help me. Communicative phrases were easier to remember. At the Army Language School we used a lot of pattern drills which are mocked by modern language learning theorists but they were effective for me. Good luck in your teaching.

[Colonel Klink]

The Goethe Institute method of teaching is for the tutor to speak only in German after lesson #1 and this seems very effective. Being a native English speaker maybe that method works as the letters of the alphabet are almost the same. Perhaps it wouldn't be so easy for native Thai speakers. After a while the gender of German nouns does becomes intuitive.

[Misterwhisper]

The Goethe Institute method of teaching is for the tutor to speak only in German after lesson #1 and this seems very effective. Being a native English speaker maybe that method works as the letters of the alphabet are almost the same. Perhaps it wouldn't be so easy for native Thai speakers. After a while the gender of German nouns does becomes intuitive.

I agree with the good Colonel. Selecting the correct gender of nouns becomes intuitive for many students as they progress in their studies and develop an "ear" for the language. Eventually, "der Sonne" or "die Kind" or "das Tisch" somehow just doesn't sound right anymore.

But until the student arrives at that point, there really is no effective shortcut but trying to memorize the genders by heart.

It's in fact comparable to the classifiers so prevalent in Thai and practically all other Sino-Tibetan languages. There seems to be no logical - thus easy to learn - system to it.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Misterwhisper

[BKKdreaming]

the problem with speaking only German , or English or Spanish after the first couple weeks is all the people you leave behind .....

I have a tin ear for languages , and if you just spoke German I would be lost and never catch up ,

in theory it sounds good , and may work for young students who are only going to school , but may not work on older people with so many other things in their heads !

[arfurcrown]

lostin isaan.

Here is the answer to your conundrum.

The European Union commissioners have announced that an agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications (rather than German, which was the other possibility).

As part of the negotiations, the British government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" and "fosforous" up to 20 persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments wil enkourage the removal of double leters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplied to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Zen ze drem vil hav finali kum tru.

[lostinisaan]

lostin isaan.

Here is the answer to your conundrum.

The European Union commissioners have announced that an agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications (rather than German, which was the other possibility).

As part of the negotiations, the British government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a five-year phased plan for what will be known as EuroEnglish (Euro for short).

In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Sertainly, sivil servants will resieve this news with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be replaced with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" and "fosforous" up to 20 persent shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments wil enkourage the removal of double leters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" by "z" and "w" by "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou", and similar changes vud of kors be aplied to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer. Zen ze drem vil hav finali kum tru.

Thanks, have read that a few moons ago. I know some Germans who speak like that. Sis is se saim sing sei sai. + =

[lostinisaan]

A very nice webpage about learning the German language is

http://www.deutschseite.de/index.html

and the lesson about the genders is here

http://www.deutschseite.de/grammatik/geschlecht/geschlecht.html

Hope this helps...

Thanks a lot for the links. It's quite funny when you hear Thais speaking German. Pretty much the same when we speak their language....

[lostinisaan]

A very nice webpage about learning the German language is

http://www.deutschseite.de/index.html

and the lesson about the genders is here

http://www.deutschseite.de/grammatik/geschlecht/geschlecht.html

Hope this helps...

Really love the second link. The joke is that the gender's changing again, once it's plural. For example; Der ( masculine) Winter. ( the winter), but plural:

Die ( feminine) Winter ( the winters).Can be difficult to deliver that. lol. And that goes on and on and on.

But no problem at all in a country with three genders, even at primary schools.

P.S. It's fascinating how many German words Thais are using, with a German pronunciation. Technologie is only one of them....

Edited September 11, 2015 by lostinisaan

[andre47]

A very nice webpage about learning the German language is

http://www.deutschseite.de/index.html

and the lesson about the genders is here

http://www.deutschseite.de/grammatik/geschlecht/geschlecht.html

Hope this helps...

Really love the second link. The joke is that the gender's changing again, once it's plural. For example; Der ( masculine) Winter. ( the winter), but plural:

Die ( feminine) Winter ( the winters).Can be difficult to deliver that. lol. And that goes on and on and on.

But no problem at all in a country with three genders, even at primary schools.

P.S. It's fascinating how many German words Thais are using, with a German pronunciation. Technologie is only one of them....

In your example

Der ( masculine) Winter. ( the winter), but plural:

Die ( feminine) Winter ( the winters)

'die' does not indicate the gender. It indicates that it is plural.

http://deutschseite.de/grammatik/plural/plural.html

Edited September 11, 2015 by andre47

[lostinisaan]

A very nice webpage about learning the German language is

http://www.deutschseite.de/index.html

and the lesson about the genders is here

http://www.deutschseite.de/grammatik/geschlecht/geschlecht.html

Hope this helps...

Really love the second link. The joke is that the gender's changing again, once it's plural. For example; Der ( masculine) Winter. ( the winter), but plural:

Die ( feminine) Winter ( the winters).Can be difficult to deliver that. lol. And that goes on and on and on.

But no problem at all in a country with three genders, even at primary schools.

P.S. It's fascinating how many German words Thais are using, with a German pronunciation. Technologie is only one of them....

In your example

Der ( masculine) Winter. ( the winter), but plural:

Die ( feminine) Winter ( the winters)

'die' does not indicate the gender. It indicates that it is plural.

http://deutschseite.de/grammatik/plural/plural.html

Yep, you're right, but my point was more that it can be difficult to deliver it. Die is usually seen as feminine. But...........

Take "the woman" as an example. Die Frau. ( the woman, singular) Plural: Die Frauen.( the women,)

The biggest problem I see is that you can't just teach certain rules, because there're too many exceptions.

Take a car, for example. Okay, it's a thing. ( Das Auto) the car, but when pluralizing, it's Die Autos. ( the cars, similar to English)

I believe that watching plenty of movies helps a lot to understand when and how to use der, die das.

Edited September 11, 2015 by lostinisaan

[andre47]

Yep, you're right, but my point was more that it can be difficult to deliver it. Die is usually seen as feminine. But...........

Take "the woman" as an example. Die Frau. ( the woman, singular) Plural: Die Frauen.( the women,)

The biggest problem I see is that you can't just teach certain rules, because there're too many exceptions.

Take a car, for example. Okay, it's a thing. ( Das Auto) the car, but when pluralizing, it's Die Autos. ( the cars, similar to English)

I believe that watching plenty of movies helps a lot to understand when and how to use der, die das.

'Die' can be the gender or it can indicate the plural. If someone is learning the German nouns he/she must learn the gender together with the noun. It is absolutely necessary to know the gender for each noun, Without the gender you are lost.

So in your case => if you see a noun with 'die' it can indicate the gender or the plural, but you should have learned the nominative together with the gender of the noun. Therefore you should be able to identify if it is the gender or the plural. In practice people will get a feeling for the language but it takes time.

But don't mix the gender and the plural. These are two different topics.

Edited September 11, 2015 by andre47

[manfredtillmann]

every german child has to learn the german language in exactly the same way as your students. and many german's do not get things right for their entire life.

for me it was just as difficult to memorise the english irregular verbs - some 260+ or so, or the pronouciation of 'th'.

in the end what did it for me was a dutch english teacher who 'punished' us by making us learn whole pages of our english language book by heart. i can still reciete 'moving day at the barton's' or 'the day of the soap box race' now, almost 50 years later. if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

[BKKdreaming]

if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

Actually that is a GREAT idea , and I am sure you can find them on you tube ,

but do they have subtitles so you know the words ?

I need to hear , to see and to speak , seeing the words helps to remember the words and order of words,

[manfredtillmann]

if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

Actually that is a GREAT idea , and I am sure you can find them on you tube ,

but do they have subtitles so you know the words ?

I need to hear , to see and to speak , seeing the words helps to remember the words and order of words,

probably no subtitles but repetitive ++, and many words are emphasised by the in-your-face presentation of the item spoken about. not a sure fire way but it teaches contemporary language.

try www.stern.de, www.spiegel.de ,both internet magazines that have commercials attached to their video features, alternately http://www.ndr.de/fernsehen/, lots of stuff there dealing with everyday things.

[Scott]

A post with foreign script has been removed. English is the only language allowed in this section of the forum.

[lostinisaan]

every german child has to learn the german language in exactly the same way as your students. and many german's do not get things right for their entire life.

for me it was just as difficult to memorise the english irregular verbs - some 260+ or so, or the pronouciation of 'th'.

in the end what did it for me was a dutch english teacher who 'punished' us by making us learn whole pages of our english language book by heart. i can still reciete 'moving day at the barton's' or 'the day of the soap box race' now, almost 50 years later. if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

It's Pfennige , a plural noun, while singular the (der) Pfennig.

Why's the smallest amount of German's ex currency masculine? ( Der Pfennig) Should be capitalized. Thanks for all the great posts. Danke schön..

P.S. It would be nice if a language would follow certain rules. Why's it not a thing and using das?

But on the other hand, I've met German people in Thailand who might have missed some of their grammar lessons and mixed all genders up.

Edited September 12, 2015 by lostinisaan

[BKKdreaming]

it is hard to "learn" a language ,

it is easier to be a "Parrot" and just repeat what you hear and really have no idea why you are saying it that way ,

its not easy !

[White Christmas13]

every german child has to learn the german language in exactly the same way as your students. and many german's do not get things right for their entire life.

for me it was just as difficult to memorise the english irregular verbs - some 260+ or so, or the pronouciation of 'th'.

in the end what did it for me was a dutch english teacher who 'punished' us by making us learn whole pages of our english language book by heart. i can still reciete 'moving day at the barton's' or 'the day of the soap box race' now, almost 50 years later. if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

Only cents in Germany now

[lostinisaan]

every german child has to learn the german language in exactly the same way as your students. and many german's do not get things right for their entire life.

for me it was just as difficult to memorise the english irregular verbs - some 260+ or so, or the pronouciation of 'th'.

in the end what did it for me was a dutch english teacher who 'punished' us by making us learn whole pages of our english language book by heart. i can still reciete 'moving day at the barton's' or 'the day of the soap box race' now, almost 50 years later. if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

Only cents in Germany now

And ugly Ex- Communist ones who suck. ( Bratwurst, of course).

Edited September 13, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

it is hard to "learn" a language ,

it is easier to be a "Parrot" and just repeat what you hear and really have no idea why you are saying it that way ,

its not easy !

I still don't understand a word what people from lower Saxony are saying.

[lostinisaan]

it is hard to "learn" a language ,

it is easier to be a "Parrot" and just repeat what you hear and really have no idea why you are saying it that way ,

its not easy !

Like: "I'm fine, thank you and you", perhaps?

Edited September 13, 2015 by lostinisaan

[manfredtillmann]

every german child has to learn the german language in exactly the same way as your students. and many german's do not get things right for their entire life.

for me it was just as difficult to memorise the english irregular verbs - some 260+ or so, or the pronouciation of 'th'.

in the end what did it for me was a dutch english teacher who 'punished' us by making us learn whole pages of our english language book by heart. i can still reciete 'moving day at the barton's' or 'the day of the soap box race' now, almost 50 years later. if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

It's Pfennige , a plural noun, while singular the (der) Pfennig.

Why's the smallest amount of German's ex currency masculine? ( Der Pfennig) Should be capitalized. Thanks for all the great posts. Danke schön..

P.S. It would be nice if a language would follow certain rules. Why's it not a thing and using das?

But on the other hand, I've met German people in Thailand who might have missed some of their grammar lessons and mixed all genders up.

german language does in fact follow very strict rules, the grammar book is large and complex. as for the assignment of genders and the use of the relative article there seems to be little consistency within euro languages. e.g. for the french and italians the sun is male and the moon female, for the germans and english it's the other way round. a useful rule of thumb for assigning gender to german nouns is to follow english, although due to the universal article 'the' the gender of a noun is hidden and does at times not 'surface' at all. somone can talk about a friend for minutes before one realises if s/he is male or female.

i could write a bit about the rules of articles but it would involve using german language and i have been told that is not permitted here and i do not want to sit on the 'naughty stool' again.

happy monday everyone

[Naam]

The gender classification is one of the biggest mine fields for every German language student. Unfortunately, there is no other way than to learn it by heart.

As you already noted: it is the way it is.

Even a German linguistics professor would have a hard time to explain why a child is neutral (das), the moon is masculine (der) and the sun is feminine (die). There is no system of rules that one could follow.

Now... try confronting your Thai students with the German genitive like, for example, "des Vaters Sohn", and see what happens. There are indeed rules how to decline nouns in genitive, but it's another thing to explain them - and make them understood.

Good luck!

since the "Rechtsschreibreform" in 1996 using the "saxon genitive" with an apostrophy is allowed again, e.g. "des Vater's Sohn" would perhaps help a little for a better understanding.

but i don't see the need for Thai or any foreign students to waste time on these negligible details as there are more important things to concentrate on when it concerns "fàrking²" German grammar, orthography and last not least the (quite often) ridiculous gender specific articles.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Naam

[Edgehog net]

Thai fruits have genders. Why is that?

German objects have genders. Why is that?

Because it is.

If a person will link their past experience/knowledge with the present then you will have a real result.

[lostinisaan]

Thai fruits have genders. Why is that?

German objects have genders. Why is that?

Because it is.

If a person will link their past experience/knowledge with the present then you will have a real result.

Well said. An apple is masculine and a papaya feminine. Makes perfect sense to all learners of the German language. Easy to explain as well.

Edited September 22, 2015 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

every german child has to learn the german language in exactly the same way as your students. and many german's do not get things right for their entire life.

for me it was just as difficult to memorise the english irregular verbs - some 260+ or so, or the pronouciation of 'th'.

in the end what did it for me was a dutch english teacher who 'punished' us by making us learn whole pages of our english language book by heart. i can still reciete 'moving day at the barton's' or 'the day of the soap box race' now, almost 50 years later. if you have access to german tv commercials, something connecting everyday stuff to the language, get your students to watch them and learn the 'lyrics' by heart. it will seem petty but it will enable them to function in german speaking countries. my 50 pfennige...

It's Pfennige , a plural noun, while singular the (der) Pfennig.

Why's the smallest amount of German's ex currency masculine? ( Der Pfennig) Should be capitalized. Thanks for all the great posts. Danke schön..

P.S. It would be nice if a language would follow certain rules. Why's it not a thing and using das?

But on the other hand, I've met German people in Thailand who might have missed some of their grammar lessons and mixed all genders up.

german language does in fact follow very strict rules, the grammar book is large and complex. as for the assignment of genders and the use of the relative article there seems to be little consistency within euro languages. e.g. for the french and italians the sun is male and the moon female, for the germans and english it's the other way round. a useful rule of thumb for assigning gender to german nouns is to follow english, although due to the universal article 'the' the gender of a noun is hidden and does at times not 'surface' at all. somone can talk about a friend for minutes before one realises if s/he is male or female.

i could write a bit about the rules of articles but it would involve using german language and i have been told that is not permitted here and i do not want to sit on the 'naughty stool' again.

happy monday everyone

You naughty boy.......