Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

metisdead · October 13, 2015

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RWA · October 13, 2015

It doesn't matter who found the phone- it proves nothing. However , what was on the phone could provide a clue as to what happened. The prosecution has proved nothing- they have not supplied a sufficient motive; they have not supplied a chain of custody log so the DNA evidence is worthless and has to be tossed out; The confessions are worthless because the use of an interpreter taken off the street without any legitimacy stains the confessions. The examination of the police investigation shows leads were not followed; the crime scene was tainted and they presented no type of logical sequence of events. Then there is the question of torture and all that involves. In addition, in everything I have read- nothing has been disclosed as to what happened at the AC bar when the deceased were there and what were the times they were there and left. Were any witnesses identified who were there and what were their statements. There was one witness who came forward on this board and claimed he saw nothing but he never provided times; who else was there; how many people were there at the time or any real information. There is a reason for this deafening silence.

Based on what I have read- there is no case against the defendants or at least it is not been proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

You said it!

yes, that's just about it ... and now what?

I still want to believe in the Judge's professionalism and respect for the Rules of Law ...

I still want to believe some nutshead from the Island will talk at some point and some one will hear that and share that ...

I still want to believe the Justice will find a way to punish every single one who had been involved and guilty in some way or another

I still want to believe there is a chance for Thailand to have professional, competent, well trained police force

I still want to believe I will live forever to see some better times ...?

lucky11 · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.
To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.
So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

YES baby!!!

Precisely THAT!

That is simply what the LAW is all about!

So you would rather see 2 guilty men freed because of the RTP cock-ups and lack of credible evidence to convict them just so you can sit back in your chair and say "we dunnit".

I notice the highlighted element which seems to imply that maybe they are the real killers, but...........

I can't believe some people can be so callous to let them have their freedom just to prove a point regards the RTP's inadequacies and to be on the winning side!!

Thaidream · October 13, 2015

Everything the prosecution has presented in court is a fact only to the prosecution. If the evidence is tainted, which appears, to be the case, it is not admissible and therefore ceases to become a fact. Some people will believe it and some will not. Normally, if it is considered tainted, it will be excluded as part of the deliberation process and have no bearing on the decision. We will have to see how this plays out in this case.

catsanddogs · October 13, 2015

I hope the Miller's get their justice and can have closure on their terrible loss.

I think that they are privy to something that we don't know about - maybe something revealed to them by the UK police in their capacity of observing the investigation, of which cannot be given out to the public. Otherwise, why would they want the B2 to go down if they they were not truly convinced of their guilt?

Thought provoking.

lucky11 · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.
To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.
So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

I can hardly think of anything more removed from the concept of Justice than a statement like that; justice being done by letting people go free even if they are guilty of murder?

That's the "Justice" some people are rooting for?

I just posted along the same lines - what is this world coming to?

It is not justice, it is potentially letting 2 murderers and rapists go free because so that they can gain brownie points. Unbelievable!! how can they live with themselves.

nottocus · October 13, 2015

I'd say the B2 are going down no matter what.

The Thais just don't really care if the whole world is watching or not.

glenmohr · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.
To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.
So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

But Cruncher, in the case of Koh Tao, the murderers are free, quite scary isn't it??

catsanddogs · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.
To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.
So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

I can hardly think of anything more removed from the concept of Justice than a statement like that; justice being done by letting people go free even if they are guilty of murder?

That's the "Justice" some people are rooting for?

I just posted along the same lines - what is this world coming to?

It is not justice, it is potentially letting 2 murderers and rapists go free because so that they can gain brownie points. Unbelievable!! how can they live with themselves.

Rape has not been proven. Agree with your question - what is this world coming to.

stephenterry · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.
To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.
So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

I can hardly think of anything more removed from the concept of Justice than a statement like that; justice being done by letting people go free even if they are guilty of murder?

That's the "Justice" some people are rooting for?

I just posted along the same lines - what is this world coming to?

It is not justice, it is potentially letting 2 murderers and rapists go free because so that they can gain brownie points. Unbelievable!! how can they live with themselves.

Well before you jump on your soapbox, accept that at this moment in time the B2 are legally innocent. And will remain so unless the 24th December verdict deems otherwise. That is factual and a bedrock of any civilised society. Whether Thailand will ever attain that status relies on a sea-change in their judicial process so that justice is not bought by those who can afford it.

balo · October 13, 2015

I know 24th December means nothing in Thailand, but still a bit odd they choose this date for the verdict.

But it doesn't really matter , the media will pick up the news of the verdict anyway , so I guess it was just a coincidence,

glenmohr · October 13, 2015

I hope the Miller's get their justice and can have closure on their terrible loss.

I think that they are privy to something that we don't know about - maybe something revealed to them by the UK police in their capacity of observing the investigation, of which cannot be given out to the public. Otherwise, why would they want the B2 to go down if they they were not truly convinced of their guilt?

As others have said their is no need for you to continue talking about this it has been answered many times today if you don't agree thats ok but it is not necessary to keep going on about it.

Answered many times today!! where? when? why are you attempting to stifle me?

Keep going on about it!! you deem a maximum of 2 posts on the subject in question persistent? It seems that if I throw a spanner in the works that you retort with these absurd phrases in a collective attempt to stifle me. Well, I am sorry to disappoint you but it won't work as I have just the same right to air my views as you do in a Democratic society!! I thought that forums were supposed to be a platform for discussion on differing views and not a propaganda tool by bully boys.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

democracy - noun

: a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting

: a country ruled by democracy

: an organization or situation in which everyone is treated equally and has equal rights

Did you forget what happened May 22 2014?

Hang on a minute there Fritzz, Thailand happens to be a fully democratic country managed and administered by a military junta who decide the outcome of important matters before studying the evidence. When you think about it carefully, Thainess is quite unique.

CharlieH · October 13, 2015

Inflammatory/sarcasm removed.

ffaarraanngg · October 13, 2015

I know 24th December means nothing in Thailand, but still a bit odd they choose this date for the verdict.

But it doesn't really matter , the media will pick up the news of the verdict anyway , so I guess it was just a coincidence,

Its a quiet news day i imagine this will be lead story on all rolling news channels.

TheCruncher · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.
To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.
So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

But Cruncher, in the case of Koh Tao, the murderers are free, quite scary isn't it??

Please get to the court with your evidence asap, because nobody in their right mind would want 2 innocent people get a death sentence.

You do have hard evidence of your claims, don't you?

Thaidream · October 13, 2015

The whole purpose of having laws and a legal system is for justice to be afforded. The police collect the evidence and present it to the prosecutor who then follows through with presenting it to a court. People are innocent until proven guilty. If the prosecution cannot prove its case, maybe they should not have presented it to the court and released the defendants. In this case, if the judges decide the defendants are not guilty- the defendants should be released. Some people may still think they are guilty but it does not matter. I do not think the prosecution has proven their case. Whatever the decision, the other side will appeal and unless the defendants get bail- they will remain in custody. I suspect that the actual disposition of this case is several years away. If it goes though the appeals process, there will be many twists and turns. Eventually, the truth will emerge because human beings being what they are cannot keep quiet forever.

glenmohr · October 13, 2015

I know 24th December means nothing in Thailand, but still a bit odd they choose this date for the verdict.

But it doesn't really matter , the media will pick up the news of the verdict anyway , so I guess it was just a coincidence,

On Dec 25th most English language papers around the western world will not be publishing, bit of a worry and maybe not as coincidental at second glance.

ffaarraanngg · October 13, 2015

I know 24th December means nothing in Thailand, but still a bit odd they choose this date for the verdict.

But it doesn't really matter , the media will pick up the news of the verdict anyway , so I guess it was just a coincidence,

On Dec 25th most English language papers around the western world will not be publishing, bit of a worry and maybe not as coincidental at second glance.

The newspapers are all online, times are a changing.

JLCrab · October 13, 2015

As of this moment, 24 DEC 2015 is:

2 Months

11 Days

8 Hours

29 Minutes

I have programmed a wake up call.

HUH · October 13, 2015

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

But Cruncher, in the case of Koh Tao, the murderers are free, quite scary isn't it??

Please get to the court with your evidence asap, because nobody in their right mind would want 2 innocent people get a death sentence.

You do have hard evidence of your claims, don't you?

Hard evidence? Perhaps we should ask the pathologist who removed Hannah's clothes where they are, he may also divulge where the blond hair is? How about the blood on the sand that was also never tested. Plenty of hard evidence around just being hidden for some reason

Thaidream · October 13, 2015

I seriously doubt the foreign press will pick up much news during the long holiday weekend and then the New Year break unless there is a news feed from Thailand. In addition, most people will be on holiday hours and mentality. However, as I mentioned. Either side can appeal and I expect they will which means no real resolution for years. The appeals process is cumbersome, lengthy and complicated. This case will probably end up in the Supreme Court.Only a very dedicated press and persons of interest will be able to keep it in the public eye.

TheCruncher · October 13, 2015

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

But Cruncher, in the case of Koh Tao, the murderers are free, quite scary isn't it??

Please get to the court with your evidence asap, because nobody in their right mind would want 2 innocent people get a death sentence.

You do have hard evidence of your claims, don't you?

Hard evidence? Perhaps we should ask the pathologist who removed Hannah's clothes where they are, he may also divulge where the blond hair is? How about the blood on the sand that was also never tested. Plenty of hard evidence around just being hidden for some reason

Hell, that nobody involved, even the defense hasn't thought of that.

But could it be that every one concerned DOES know where those items are, and that they just forgot to inform you, primarily because you are not involved in this investigation?

HUH · October 13, 2015

Hard evidence? Perhaps we should ask the pathologist who removed Hannah's clothes where they are, he may also divulge where the blond hair is? How about the blood on the sand that was also never tested. Plenty of hard evidence around just being hidden for some reason

Hell, that nobody involved, even the defense hasn't thought of that.

But could it be that every one concerned DOES know where those items are, and that they just forgot to inform you, primarily because you are not involved in this investigation?

Your wrong but you need to do some further reading again of previous posts then come back to me with the answers if you'd actually like to know the truth.

HUH · October 13, 2015

Koh Tao murders accused allege torture by Thai police

Zaw Lin, the other defendant, said he was blindfolded by police and beaten on his chest.

Although a police-appointed doctor said no bruises were found on his chest, prison doctors testified that the bruises did exist.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/136101/koh-tao-murders-accused-allege-torture-by-thai-police/

metisdead · October 13, 2015

I have not given links for the articles below because I am unsure of which newspapers I am not allowed to quote on the forum.

Post removed as it is clearly in violation of fair use policy.

Other obfuscation posts have been removed.

Nigeone · October 13, 2015

Guilt not shown in Koh Tao trial

October 13, 2015 1:00 am

A defendant in the Koh Tao rape and murder of two British tourists said he was beaten into confessing.

To demonstrate that genuine rule of law exists in Thailand, justice must be not only be done, but must be seen to be done. Thai Criminal Code S134/4 stipulates that, for any statement given by a suspect to be admissible in court, he must first have been informed of his right to silence and to legal counsel during interrogation. Also, he cannot be tortured or misled.

So the prosecution should provide video of the entire interrogation that shows the suspect's lawyer was present throughout, and require the lawyer to swear under oath as to the video's veracity. But such proof of its compliance with S134/4 has not been provided.

Burin Kantabutra

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Guilt-not-shown-in-Koh-Tao-trial-30270711.html

The accused might well be guilty of the rape and murder, but the evidence presented doesn't prove it. To show that justice has been done, and thus preserve Thailand's image, both defendants must be freed.

Burin Kantabutra

So Burin Kantabutra supports to have murderers been freed because the prosecution didn't provide enough evidence?

But Cruncher, in the case of Koh Tao, the murderers are free, quite scary isn't it??

Please get to the court with your evidence asap, because nobody in their right mind would want 2 innocent people get a death sentence.

You do have hard evidence of your claims, don't you?

Wow getting desperate now..Actually most sensible people on here without a agenda except to see justice for Hannah and David do have evidence, and yes would be deemed hard evidence in any credible court situation.! Right, again repeating what has been said so many times. No motive, no proof, no DNA linking the B2, the torture of B2. The lies of prosecution witness, the failure to examine correctly all items on the crime scene, the failure to show chain of custody, failure to take crime scene photographs, 'losing' items of so called evidence, clothes missing form deceased, failure to produce CCTV and examine CCTV available, the silencing of press and witnesses,removing of RTP officer in charge, changing of judges, I could go on but so can so many law abiding justice seeking people on here..And in closing your last sentence is quite telling...

You say nobody in there right mind would want two innocent people get a death sentence...Well in my eyes Hannah and David were two innocent people having a lovely holiday ! There DEAD... And sadly some sick people on here and the powers that be in Thailand don't care..All they care about is it might cost them money.. Also of the true murderers are not hunted down they will commit crimes again for sure and maybe as brutal as this one..That's a given !

So there's plenty of hard evidence that should have meant this case never made it to court, when it did so many times it could and should have been thrown out ! Fact !!

Edited October 13, 2015 by Nigeone

StealthEnergiser · October 13, 2015

AleG

Where is this evidence for the semen

the rtp claims existed?

It was presented in court during the prosecution's turn to make their case, and from what I've heard the defense didn't do a particularly good job at disproving it.

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

@riverview810 @JQP6 indeed. Well it seemed to me the prosecution/police didn't comply with many defense requests for information.

AGareth2 · October 13, 2015

was the semen a partial match?

HUH · October 13, 2015

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead Sep 22Na Mueang, Surat Thani

@JQP6 Defence have requested these documents. Without them no DNA test can be credible. Hopefully the judges understand this.

Edited October 13, 2015 by HUH

HUH · October 13, 2015

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead Sep 22Na Mueang, Surat Thani

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

Jonathan Head ‏@pakhead Sep 11

@davidwBKK @JQP6 how they obtained that data. Unless they provide full documentation who knows where their samples originated?

Edited October 13, 2015 by HUH

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Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

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