Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[boomerangutang]

1 year and 4.5 hours ago the crime took place, and the real culprits are still out walking free. Disgusting non-investigation by RTP. I'm outta here.

[BritTim]

Talking about the clothes I am sure that most have seen this photo with david laying in the water in the background (sorry to both families )

But has anyone mentioned what the yellow type material is on the rocks to the right ? I was thinking maybe it was a blanket.

clothes kohtao.jpg

clothes2.jpg

But has anyone mentioned what the yellow type material is on the rocks to the right ?

It is plausibly the (unexplained) green towel. It is is about the right place.

[fritzzz25]

Reports then emerged from the Burmese community that nine Burmese had been playing a ball game when they were approached by police, one member told reporters that the three suspects, who were working and residing illegally in the country should flea, which they did. The remaining six were apprehended , one went on to say that the police tortured them with boiling water, before apprehending the three that fled. Two of those three Saw and Wyn were the two Burmese who took part in the reconstruction and whose DNA has been said to match that at the crime scene,

The third man, Mau, is apparently still in custody but has denied any involvement in the case.

http://www.samuitimes.com/international-confusion-murder-reconstruction-koh-tao/

Take your pick HEY!!!!

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run

The police have arrested a suspect in the murder of two British tourists in Koh Tao and are still hunting for a second suspect who has escaped into Bangkok.

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

The southern police chief also assured the public that there was no arrest of scapegoats in this murder case as it now is a focal attention of the world.

He also dismissed any suggestion of local mafias or influential people that could twist the investigation with promise that local influence would pose no obstacle to the police investigation.

Instead the police will eliminate all these mafias, he said.

Meanwhile a police source said the police are also looking into the cooperation of those who helped to arrange the suspect to escape. They also will be arrested.

9-23-2014-3-14-56-PM-wpcf_728x413.jpg

And all of these people had their DNA Tested later, and since there was no match with Hannah, they were no longer a suspect. The 2 Accused however is alleged to have matched with Hannah. See the difference?

tested by who? let me guess, the pancake seller tasted the samples and declared a match - that is about how accurate the RTP DNA lab was...

[BritTim]

tested by who? let me guess, the pancake seller tasted the samples and declared a match - that is about how accurate the RTP DNA lab was...

Finally, a rational explanation of how the DNA samples were "used up". If he had tested them by smelling them, the samples would still be available for a second opinion.

[fish fingers]

"The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration."

Well I hope that crucial evidence like this will be made public if these poor guys are locked up.

[loonodingle]

"The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroners report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration."

Well I hope that crucial evidence like this will be made public if these poor guys are locked up.

Ohhh it will all come out. Dont forget the inquest will take place in the UK for David and Hannah. Its public and they cant hide facts so no matter what it WILL be Public Knowledge.

There just holding back until the 22nd Sept and more specialist from the Thai Forensic Institute carryon their evidence. Its not over with Pornthip. Rather she was the warm up act.

[Nigeone]

It's one year ago already and countless words,emotions and opinions have been voiced and typed on here. Most of us have from the beginning had grave doubts about the road the investigation went and indeed has carried on going. I for one kept a open mind and all I wanted was for the perpetrators of these horrific murders to be found and be suitably punished. From where I'm sitting now I feel this case has fallen well short of meeting any of those criteria. Not only that but it must be leaving parents and friends of Hannah and David distraught with what's gone on in court. Also I feel for the B2 and there parents and friends for what's gone on too.. Words aren't enough to express our love and thoughts to all those people affected by this crime but for many on here the fight will go on for some sort of justice for Hannah and David and closure for there families.

It's also my hope and wish that this might be a watershed in Thai justice and never again will a investigation be handled in such a incompetent and criminal way. To Hannah and David. None of us knew you but we have shared your passing and most of us have tried to show you both the love and respect on earth that you have been denied.The fight for justice will go on because that's the least we can do . RIP.

[jaimie29]

Question....Were the bracelets Hannah was photographed wearing that night ever recovered?

[jaimie29]

I am wondering if they were given to the family or disappeared as well. I am sure there would be DNA all over them.

[JLCrab]

I don't care about the late Ms. Witherdge's clothes. I am just stating that there was a alleged theft of clothing earlier that evening that has never been questioned by anyone like that's a normal occurrence when someone goes swimming at 2 or 3 AM.

I see your point Crab. Maybe more will be revealed at the next hearing? The only thing I can add to this strange 'occurence' is (and I have banged on about it many times) that Maung Maung appeared to be wearing the top in CCTV in the early hours of the morning that one of the B2 were wearing earlier on in the evening in the CCTV of the three of them on the bike. I previously speculated that maybe Maung Maung stole it for a joke, or possibly more sinister reasons. Got any ideas about the theft of their clothes yourself?

Only as to whether or not there really was a theft. As with a jury trial elsewhere, the judges can give whatever credence they choose to any direct testimony. It doesn't require cross-examination by the opposing party to establish skepticism.

[IslandLover]

Talking about the clothes I am sure that most have seen this photo with david laying in the water in the background (sorry to both families )

But has anyone mentioned what the yellow type material is on the rocks to the right ? I was thinking maybe it was a blanket.

clothes kohtao.jpg

clothes2.jpg

But has anyone mentioned what the yellow type material is on the rocks to the right ?

It is plausibly the (unexplained) green towel. It is is about the right place.

No, it's not the green towel. Hannah's body was found to the far left of that photo (out of shot) and her head was much closer to the ground than that yellow object is.

[loonodingle]

Perhaps as around this time 1 year Hannah and David passed on from this world we should all be respectful and honour them as decent people who brought joy to their families and friends. Both of them were working towards a career and had taken time out for a break and some fun and sun in Thailand.

Hannah was at University training to be a speech therapist, tragically she has no voice to speak now but we can speak out for her. To seek justice and to bring pressure to ensure that the law doesnt give up and finds the killers. They deserve the ultimate punishment for their wicked crime.

Lets make a promise to ensure justice is served and today have some extra respect in their memory.

Today isn't a day for bickering over evidence and opinions. But a day to remember David and Hannah.

May they Rest In Peace...

[Nigeone]

Hey Loonodingle..how about no discussions for one day...just post pictures of Hannah and David before there's deaths. As a reminder what should have been still! Or something respectful for them both .

[Nigeone]

RIP. Not forgotten.

[Madaussie]

Rest In Peace David & Hannah

[JLCrab]

Yes. RIP Ms. Witheridge and Mr. Miller.

[catsanddogs]

Will not give up on you. Rest in peace Hannah and David.

[lucaswallachia]

Question....Were the bracelets Hannah was photographed wearing that night ever recovered?

If you look at the crime scene photos she is still wearing them.

[lucaswallachia]

Talking about the clothes I am sure that most have seen this photo with david laying in the water in the background (sorry to both families )

But has anyone mentioned what the yellow type material is on the rocks to the right ? I was thinking maybe it was a blanket.

clothes kohtao.jpg

clothes2.jpg

But has anyone mentioned what the yellow type material is on the rocks to the right ?

It is plausibly the (unexplained) green towel. It is is about the right place.

No, it's not the green towel. Hannah's body was found to the far left of that photo (out of shot) and her head was much closer to the ground than that yellow object is.

Who put the towel over Hannah's head; the RTP or the culprits?, because if the RTP had down it then it could be the green towel before they put it over her head.

[boomerangutang]

And all of these people had their DNA Tested later, and since there was no match with Hannah, they were no longer a suspect. The 2 Accused however is alleged to have matched with Hannah. See the difference?

All what 'people who were DNA tested'? Here is a short list of people who should have been tested but either weren't or the results were trashed because they implicated people the RTP are duty-bound to not mention:

>>> Stingray Man - one of Mon's tough-guy friends who sports a sharks tooth ring.

>>> Mon's cop friend 'Big Ears'

>>> the AC bar regular who has a round-face like Stingray Man, but has a birthmark on forehead. He was also shown posing/grinning with a hoe after the crime. A short while before the crime, he was photographed partying inches away from Hannah in AC Bar.

>>> The other Burmese Maung Maung (not B3) who claims he saw Nomsod on that fateful night. He was a DJ and split back to Burma 2 days after the crime, not to be heard of again. Similarly B3 MM is out of touch.

>>> Sean

>>> If cops took a close look at Mon, it's quite likely other 'persons-of-interest' would come out of the woodwork

What else do those guys have in common besides partying every night at beach bars, drinking heavily, scoring often with pretty young farang chicks, and being buddies with Mon? (yes, even Sean was Mon's party buddy b4 crime night. People that know them say they were involved with drug dealing together). They all pulled their Facebook pages from the week after the crime. Connect the dots.

Speaking of 'DNA match with Hannah.' How can anyone still trust claims by RTP re; 'DNA found in/on Hannah'? ....or any DNA results? RTP DNA claims would be laughed at, were it not for the serious implications of them intentionally skewing the trail to fit their agenda.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Of major concern to followers of this case is the whereabouts of "Maung Maung". This is the 3rd Burmese that confessed to the murder. His situation is worrying on so many levels. Why did he confess? He confessed, so why isn't he on remand with the B2? Official sources claim he has returned to Burma. None of this adds up at all. The only thing that is clear is that Maung Maung was tortured along with the B2. I do hope he is alive and well, not another nameless corpse somewhere and not still being detained in a black safe-house. Andy Hall may have further info on his wellbeing and whereabouts?

The official sources claim that he returned to Myanmar would be correct from what I read. He conducted an Interview with a Myanmar Newspaper shortly after he returned home. I tried to find this newspaper article again but it seems to have been erased now as this is 10 month old news. So you can believe me or not.

He spent most of this interview in discussion on how happy he was to be home with his family. He was asked about the night of the murders and didn't really add anything new to what he said in Thailand. He left his friends on the beach to visit his girlfriend and came home early that morning to find his friends sleeping. Soon afterwards he noticed his shoes and guitar missing and when waking one of the accused to find out where it was he went to retrieve them.

When asked who did this crime he said he didn't know but did not think his friends did it. When asked how he was treated when arrested he did not use the words torture, but did say he was treated badly and harshly. That he was threatened but refused to sign a confession and was deprived of sleep. He said he had only eaten one time in 2 days.

When asked what happened after his release he said he was held in a hotel. He did not say how long as he also mentioned that one morning the Police Guards did not show up so he went to the Myanmar Embassy and spent the rest of his time in Thailand their.

[GOLDBUGGY]

2) The Mobile Phone purportedly belonging to David.

Every time I see this brought up I always see that the most important part of this is always missing. Let's go back down memory lane here at start at the beginning.

Police knew from talking to David's friends and family that David Mobile Phone was missing, but they chose not to disclose this to the public. Probably in hopes of catching the murderer with it red handed. That means that David did not tell his friends, including Chris, who last saw him that night around 1 am, that he lost his phone. So there is a very good likelihood he had it on him when he left and ended up at the AC bar at 1:30 am.

So why is it that since the Police knew the Mobile Phone was missing almost on the day of the murders that it was not discovered for 2 weeks later? How did they know where to look even?

It is because after the confessions (forced or otherwise) the accused were asked about David's Mobile Phone. It is then alleged that one of the accused (Win I think) told them he had given this to a friend. When this friend was approached by police he told them he discarded this smashed up phone as he became suspicious of it, but other reports say they did it because it didn't work on the Island. Either way he showed them where he discarded it and thus leading to the discovery of this Mobile Phone.

Once the accused retracted their confession they later claimed they found this Mobile Phone on the Beach. Keep in mind that by then the Prosecution had a witness saying they gave it to him. But how plausible is that? Let's see!

If David did lose his Mobile Phone on the beach it had to have been that night as he never reported missing to his friends. Since David was seen on CCTV at a different bar, when it was closed, and a 7-11 later, and before he went to the AC Bar, he did not take the beach path to get their as there are no CCTV Cameras their, as we all know. So he would have had to have lost his phone somewhere along the beach from the AC Bar to the Rocks, and somewhere close the the 2 accused for them to find it in the dark.

So how is it that both of the accused claimed they did not see them. Even if they were swimming how far out in the ocean and away from the shore can 2 guys who are 5 feet tall go? To not notice someone walk by maybe only yards away, with all there clothes their and a guitar hid in the bush someplace. Or sitting on the log playing the guitar and someone walking by would almost have to trip over them.

If they did find the Mobile Phone on the beach how is it they knew it was David Miller's Mobile Phone when asked by the Police, and was directed to its location, and yet they claim they never saw anyone? Why would you give something so valuable to a friend without compensation and for no known good reason to do so, other than possibly trying to hide you had it? Wouldn't trying to sell it and send money home make more sense, if it was found and not stolen? Why would you destroy a Mobile Phone just because it didn't work for you first time. Why would David walk around with a Mobile Phone that wasn't working their?

Sorry but it is no very plausible to me they found it.

Now the next and final point.

As I said before, it beggars belief that the police would just happen to pick two scapegoats that just happened to had found that phone on that night.

It also seems very, shall we say, odd that the people clamoring for the truth don't seem to be interested in getting to the bottom of that issue.

Yes that is odd AleG. But do you want to know what I find even odder than that? It is where did all those people go, and the Media, who were screaming for months for a "Fair and Transparent Trial'? Here is what I mean.

On one hand you have a High Ranking Police Officer who made an Official Request to the UK Police (I gather) to help identify the said David Miller's Mobile Phone. Had this phone not belonged to David then this would help the Defense. Had it belonged to David then of course it would have helped the Prosecution. But the reply they got was they were unable to supply official documentation on this as this involved a murder trail which carries the death penalty. Although a Witness testified he had verbal conformation on this subject.

On the other hand and for months we have heard that the Defense has damning evidence from the UK that will discredit the RTP DNA that was recently given to them from a Forensic Expert in the UK, who preformed an autopsy on Hannah. Hum??? Who this said person allegedly passed on these official documents and this information onto the Defense Team only.

But do we know what this evidence is? No!No! No! It is so secret that nobody in the court room knew what it was as they refused to disclose this. Not even the Prosecution so they would have a chance to debate it or the validity of those documents. Instead they passed it under the table for the judges to view alone.

All I know for sure is if the shoe was on the other foot, and it was the Prosecution who did that, and not the Defense, this whole blog would be buzzing with people complaining and calling Prosecution and Police every name under the sun. But now it is so quiet here and nobody even mentions that, except me right now.

Maybe that isn't so odd after all.

You told us you are not a lawyer, nor a judge, and it is apparent why....

In criminal trials, the prosecution goes first. They provide the court with the evidence being presented as their facts. The defence gets to go second. They get to dispute those "facts" and are there to pick apart the investigation.

Why would the defence have to provide their method of disputing the allegations leveled by the prosecution? That would be stupid of them.

In Canada (where you have purported to live in another post) it is called "disclosure". It came from a court case called R . v. Stinchcombe (you are on your own to search this one, I gave you the last search, which still by the way you haven't answered on) where it makes the prosecution provide ALL of the evidence they are going to introduce to the court in advance to the defence, in order that they be able to prepare to make a "full answer" for the accused. As you see, there was no such disclosure made to the defence team prior to the trial, as there is no apparent requirement to do so in Thailand.

Once again you have failed to educate yourself.

The problem you seem to have is to grasp that the crime was committed in Thailand and thus under Thailand Law, and not the law of your home land.

The Prosecution does not have to provide any information to the Defense in advance here. So perhaps you should educate yourself on Thai Law and not the law of your land. This would also help you to understand the justice system better here as well.

[boomerangutang]

If anyone wants to leave an online comment on Irrawaddy.org news outlet, you're welcome to do so. Comments are easy to enter and don't require FB ID (as Nation newspaper and many other venues require). Interesting dynamic at play here: Because Thai press corps is reporting so little on this important case, the general public who are interested in news, have to go to outside-Thailand news outlets and AH's tweets to get news. The PM and the court have pseudo gag-orders on proceedings, but that only backs up the perception by many keen observers, that: Thai officialdom has truckloads of lies to hide.

[loonodingle]

Probably about time we went into recess hey mods... next date is the 22nd September.

Some people need to jump of the merry go round.

[saminoz]

The problem you seem to have is to grasp that the crime was committed in Thailand and thus under Thailand Law, and not the law of your home land.

The Prosecution does not have to provide any information to the Defense in advance here. So perhaps you should educate yourself on Thai Law and not the law of your land. This would also help you to understand the justice system better here as well.

Diversion, nothing to see here, move on.

[newcomer71]

Perhaps as around this time 1 year Hannah and David passed on from this world we should all be respectful and honour them as decent people who brought joy to their families and friends. Both of them were working towards a career and had taken time out for a break and some fun and sun in Thailand.

Hannah was at University training to be a speech therapist, tragically she has no voice to speak now but we can speak out for her. To seek justice and to bring pressure to ensure that the law doesnt give up and finds the killers. They deserve the ultimate punishment for their wicked crime.

Lets make a promise to ensure justice is served and today have some extra respect in their memory.

Today isn't a day for bickering over evidence and opinions. But a day to remember David and Hannah.

May they Rest In Peace...

Amen...

[saminoz]

Probably about time we went into recess hey mods... next date is the 22nd September.

Some people need to jump of the merry go round.

I totally agree. I don't think there is much more to be gained from continuing this thread until the next session.

The defence is in pretty good shape and the RTP shills are just re-hashing what very little (mis) information they have because there is little else they can do and lack the intellect to do any better.

The reason they make so much noise? People with narrow minds usually have broad tongues.

Let's take a break and reflect on those events last year when these two bright young people were brought to a savage, despicable end and the corruption machine kicked into gear to carry out this travesty of a prosecution and protect the real perpetrators.

Closing the thread at this point would be seen as a mark of respect.

RIP Hannah and David and peace to your families.

[fritzzz25]

As I said before, it beggars belief that the police would just happen to pick two scapegoats that just happened to had found that phone on that night.

It also seems very, shall we say, odd that the people clamoring for the truth don't seem to be interested in getting to the bottom of that issue.

Yes that is odd AleG. But do you want to know what I find even odder than that? It is where did all those people go, and the Media, who were screaming for months for a "Fair and Transparent Trial'? Here is what I mean.

On one hand you have a High Ranking Police Officer who made an Official Request to the UK Police (I gather) to help identify the said David Miller's Mobile Phone. Had this phone not belonged to David then this would help the Defense. Had it belonged to David then of course it would have helped the Prosecution. But the reply they got was they were unable to supply official documentation on this as this involved a murder trail which carries the death penalty. Although a Witness testified he had verbal conformation on this subject.

On the other hand and for months we have heard that the Defense has damning evidence from the UK that will discredit the RTP DNA that was recently given to them from a Forensic Expert in the UK, who preformed an autopsy on Hannah. Hum??? Who this said person allegedly passed on these official documents and this information onto the Defense Team only.

But do we know what this evidence is? No!No! No! It is so secret that nobody in the court room knew what it was as they refused to disclose this. Not even the Prosecution so they would have a chance to debate it or the validity of those documents. Instead they passed it under the table for the judges to view alone.

All I know for sure is if the shoe was on the other foot, and it was the Prosecution who did that, and not the Defense, this whole blog would be buzzing with people complaining and calling Prosecution and Police every name under the sun. But now it is so quiet here and nobody even mentions that, except me right now.

Maybe that isn't so odd after all.

You told us you are not a lawyer, nor a judge, and it is apparent why....

In criminal trials, the prosecution goes first. They provide the court with the evidence being presented as their facts. The defence gets to go second. They get to dispute those "facts" and are there to pick apart the investigation.

Why would the defence have to provide their method of disputing the allegations leveled by the prosecution? That would be stupid of them.

In Canada (where you have purported to live in another post) it is called "disclosure". It came from a court case called R . v. Stinchcombe (you are on your own to search this one, I gave you the last search, which still by the way you haven't answered on) where it makes the prosecution provide ALL of the evidence they are going to introduce to the court in advance to the defence, in order that they be able to prepare to make a "full answer" for the accused. As you see, there was no such disclosure made to the defence team prior to the trial, as there is no apparent requirement to do so in Thailand.

Once again you have failed to educate yourself.

The problem you seem to have is to grasp that the crime was committed in Thailand and thus under Thailand Law, and not the law of your home land.

The Prosecution does not have to provide any information to the Defense in advance here. So perhaps you should educate yourself on Thai Law and not the law of your land. This would also help you to understand the justice system better here as well.

You appear to be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle here. You went on about this:

"On the other hand and for months we have heard that the Defense has damning evidence from the UK that will discredit the RTP DNA that was recently given to them from a Forensic Expert in the UK, who preformed an autopsy on Hannah. Hum??? Who this said person allegedly passed on these official documents and this information onto the Defense Team only.

But do we know what this evidence is? No!No! No! It is so secret that nobody in the court room knew what it was as they refused to disclose this. Not even the Prosecution so they would have a chance to debate it or the validity of those documents. Instead they passed it under the table for the judges to view alone."

So I explained it to you - now, go back and understand it.

[newcomer71]

RIP Hannah and David

[JLCrab]

Probably about time we went into recess hey mods... next date is the 22nd September.

Some people need to jump of the merry go round.

Per my calculation K. Loon the silence lasted 1 hour and 45 minutes.