Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[BritTim]

this case needs the PM to intervene, he got himself involved early on when he said the police had a solid case (that is what he was told and I believe him), that has turned out to be untrue, I trust the PM in most things to be a man that doesn't tolerate any bull and in this case unless he does something very quickly he will find that he endorsed a complete farce and will lose face - time to get the DSI involved and get to the bottom of why this has caused such a blight on Thailand and an international outcry

I was going to say "Thailands reputation is in question" but I couldn't write that because you have to get one of those first and this is not how to do that, not the current PM's fault but he is in the driving seat to make changes - out to you PM Ptayuth Chan (O) Cha - get involved and rattle a few heads and get to the bottom of this, the world is watching, do the right thing

and OT comment - your single gateway is a nonsense idea and will hurt Thailand and it's IT infrastructure, Thailand moving forward not backward please

Methinks you're giving a wee bit too much credibility to the PM's integrity and "No bull" approach. Whether he wants to or not, he has to keep a lot of certain people sweet to stay in his position, and that means there will be some bull - unavoidable. You don't make general in Thailand by just being forthright and honest.

He didn't just support the police, he called it "The Perfect Investigation". If he was birdbrained enough to do that based on what some copper told him, well... hardly leadership material, I'd say. Unless he is a total idiot living in a hole in the ground, he knows that the defense has been kicking the prosecution's backside all over the courtroom from the first day of the trial. And yet, he just promoted the guy in charge of the investigation (Chaktip) to head of the national police last week. So if he wants to save face, he'll leave the case alone - or even instruct the judges to declare a guilty verdict regardless of the blatant miscarriage of justice that would be. (And on top of that, he really just doesn't give a <deleted> about a couple of Burmese scapegoats.)

But hey, this is the same competent pack of guys who just declared the Erawan bombing case "solved", when they have not proven any motive, don't have all the culprits with arrest warrants including the "mastermind" (that term always makes me laugh - makes the guy sound Lex Luthor or Dr. No)... It is far from solved... and they refuse to call it a terrorist act... and the reports have been contradictory and constantly changing... and this about a story that is actually making the local newspapers - unlike the Tao story, which is not. With the Erawan bombing, 20 people were killed, more than 100 very badly bashed up... and the most important thing is raising the face of the retiring police chief... screw the victims, screw truth or any sort of justice... just make sure the "right" people are getting their due respect.

So given all that, how do you think the Tao case is going to turn out? At best the boys will walk free, and the police will either mumble into their hands and wait for it to pass, or they'll claim that the boys were guilty but the defense used "legal tricks" (aka 'facts') to get them off. But one thing is certain; the actual killers of those two youngsters will never be brought to book....

I agree with most of your post, but

Unless he is a total idiot living in a hole in the ground, he knows that the defense has been kicking the prosecution's backside all over the courtroom from the first day of the trial

It is possible he has other priorities than reading the Thai Visa forum to stay abreast of trial developments. If so, his knowledge of events in Samui will depend on what his subordinates decide to tell him. If I had a personal vendetta against some of those involved in the bungled frame-up, I just might broach the subject. Otherwise, I could imagine bringing it to the attention of a vain boss who had called it a "perfect case". My guess is he knows zilch. This will eventually change (for a brief period) when human rights reports start appearing, and the world's major media do pieces on it.

[boomerangutang]

In the photo albums of Hoe Man's FaceBook, his girlfriend colours her hair in all sorts of colours. This was taken in October last year, no photos of her in September....would that hair appear blond in cctv's?

To be honest I don't think hoe man has anything to do with the actual crime, he's just a sick attention seeking individual.

Yes he is likely an immature attention-seeking man, but in re; to the crime, he's a 'person-of-interest' at least. He knows (and maybe is buddies with) Mon, who is the linchpin in solving the case. 'Hoe Man' is a party animal as are other persons-of-interest connected to Mon. He's big and strong enough to have been a viable opponent to David. Perhaps he's not as high on the list of 'probable perps' as Stingray Man or Mon's 'Big Ear' cop friend, or the two cops who like to prance around drunk with blond wigs, or Nomsod ......but that whole gang should have their clocks cleaned. Anything less is blatant dereliction of duty by RTP investigators, ......or purposefully botching the investigation in order to shield certain people from scrutiny. Heads should roll. Are you listening, Mr. PM?

[stephenterry]

DarioS, on 04 Oct 2015 - 16:04, said:

Been reading these posts for a year....just had a light bulb moment.

Hoe Man's girlfriend sees him chatting up with Hannah, she gets insanely jealous and.....attacks Hannah??

The gf (now his wife, I believe) has also been pictured prancing about with a hoe and openly mocking the murders.

should we forget Mon and Nomsod ? i don't !

On the assumption that there is a gang hanging out at AC bar the above scenario shouldn't be ruled out. A jealous g/f surrounded by Thai men egging her on attacks Hannah. A nearby hoe could be a defence. David enters the fray and then all he'll breaks loose. The blonde hair clutched in Hannah's hand makes sense. So does the staged body suggests Hannah was a loose woman. Mon would protect them especially if Nomsod was involved.

[boomerangutang]

Either of the victims' families still have the legal right to enact an independent investigation - with detectives of their own choosing. It would be interesting if they do so. Perhaps we at T.Visa could contribute to funding such an investigation.

[BritTim]

Either of the victims' families still have the legal right to enact an independent investigation - with detectives of their own choosing. It would be interesting if they do so. Perhaps we at T.Visa could contribute to funding such an investigation.

From a legal viewpoint, in Thailand, do the victims' families have any greater rights to investigate than any other foreigner? Unless there are laws I am unaware of, anyone can hire private investigators. What those investigators can achieve is unclear. They cannot get access to CCTV footage, conduct DNA tests on items in RTP custody, detain unwilling witnesses for questioning, or most of the other actions necessary to a successful re-investigation. Maybe I am missing something. Is there a way the families can enforce RTP cooperation?

[stephenterry]

Either of the victims' families still have the legal right to enact an independent investigation - with detectives of their own choosing. It would be interesting if they do so. Perhaps we at T.Visa could contribute to funding such an investigation.

From a legal viewpoint, in Thailand, do the victims' families have any greater rights to investigate than any other foreigner? Unless there are laws I am unaware of, anyone can hire private investigators. What those investigators can achieve is unclear. They cannot get access to CCTV footage, conduct DNA tests on items in RTP custody, detain unwilling witnesses for questioning, or most of the other actions necessary to a successful re-investigation. Maybe I am missing something. Is there a way the families can enforce RTP cooperation?

TIT. Why hasn't the police perp been arrested in the Kirsty Jones case ? Same would happen in these murders. Unless a squad of SAS descend on koh tao and encourage Mon to spill the beans zilch would happen.

[thailandchilli]

A few reports on disturbing incidents on Mafia Island before the tragic deaths of Hannah and David, perhaps another serious incident was predictable and just waiting to happen but nobody expected it to be on this scale:

2004 Stickman

But there was one story that reached me that was rather disconcerting, a story about a small bar owner in Ko Tao. He had built up a nice little business on the island when early one morning just as the sun was coming up, three men came into his bungalow with guns. He was told in no uncertain terms that he was to leave Ko Tao that afternoon and that if he didn't leave that day as had been requested, then he would not live to see the sunrise the next day!

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/Weekly/weekly188.htm

2008 Student drugged and left crippled

They were told that their son had been drinking in a bar in Koh Tao and chatting with two Thai men. When you go out there and you speak to the taxi drivers and other locals, they tell you this happens all the time but it’s hushed up because of the tourist trade.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/student-drugged-and-left-crippled-1469547

2010

It seems that on this island you really don't want to say the wrong thing about the family head or sell drugs without their permission. Even people that merely go there and open a shop or cafe that thrives can become a target and, allegedly, new businesses sometimes mysteriously burn down during the night.

http://myfamilyandotherglobetrotters.blogspot.com/2010/10/koh-tao-murky-truth.html

May 2012

Our landlord was a powerful man on the island and the police said full stop that they would not get involved with him, no matter what he did. Make no mistake… this is no poverty-striken man trying to make enough money to feed his family by charging privileged white people a few extra bucks. This is a wealthy, powerful Thai man who controls several businesses and a lot of property on the island

http://www.alexinwanderland.com/2012/05/30/living-lawless-with-the-landlord-from-hell/

March 2013 Lessons from Koh Tao Mafia

The Koh Tao mafia are made up of three families, all of whom don’t take shit from anybody, especially not the local Westerners who live on the island – also known as the “Farangs”.

http://screwtheninetofive.com/lessons-from-the-koh-tao-mafia/

July 2013

First of all, whilst this island is Thailand, it’s not run like the rest of Thailand. It’s still run by a lot of families, sort of like powerful mafia families who own and control segments of the island. It’s slowly changing into a more government-run island and they are now talking about adopting more official procedures for water, power, and waste management. Presently though, there are not many laws on the island for anything. For instance, Koh Tao only just got a ban on polystyrene!

http://wodara.org/2013/07/14/live-on-a-tiny-thai-island/

Jan 2014 Nick Pearson Thailand death: Mum believes son was murdered

The inquest, opened earlier this year as a result of Nick's death being treated as suspicious, was told the family had been out for a meal and drinks to celebrate the new year.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-30546787

14th Sept 2014 British girls mugged by Thai motorbike gang in the same spot backpackers were murdered

While the women were unhurt in the attack, police are desperately trying to catch the culprits as the robbery took place on the same stretch of beach on the island of Koh Tao, where the bodies of backpackers David Miller 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, were found in the early hours of last Monday morning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11112016/British-girls-mugged-by-Thai-motorbike-gang-in-the-same-spot-backpackers-were-murdered.html

Edited October 5, 2015 by thailandchilli

[BritTim]

A few reports on disturbing incidents on Mafia Island before the tragic deaths of Hannah and David, perhaps another serious incident was predictable and just waiting to happen but nobody expected it to be on this scale:

2004 Stickman

But there was one story that reached me that was rather disconcerting, a story about a small bar owner in Ko Tao. He had built up a nice little business on the island when early one morning just as the sun was coming up, three men came into his bungalow with guns. He was told in no uncertain terms that he was to leave Ko Tao that afternoon and that if he didn't leave that day as had been requested, then he would not live to see the sunrise the next day!

http://www.stickmanweekly.com/Weekly/weekly188.htm

2008 Student drugged and left crippled

They were told that their son had been drinking in a bar in Koh Tao and chatting with two Thai men. When you go out there and you speak to the taxi drivers and other locals, they tell you this happens all the time but it’s hushed up because of the tourist trade.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/student-drugged-and-left-crippled-1469547

2010

It seems that on this island you really don't want to say the wrong thing about the family head or sell drugs without their permission. Even people that merely go there and open a shop or cafe that thrives can become a target and, allegedly, new businesses sometimes mysteriously burn down during the night.

http://myfamilyandotherglobetrotters.blogspot.com/2010/10/koh-tao-murky-truth.html

May 2012

Our landlord was a powerful man on the island and the police said full stop that they would not get involved with him, no matter what he did. Make no mistake… this is no poverty-striken man trying to make enough money to feed his family by charging privileged white people a few extra bucks. This is a wealthy, powerful Thai man who controls several businesses and a lot of property on the island

http://www.alexinwanderland.com/2012/05/30/living-lawless-with-the-landlord-from-hell/

March 2013 Lessons from Koh Tao Mafia

The Koh Tao mafia are made up of three families, all of whom don’t take shit from anybody, especially not the local Westerners who live on the island – also known as the “Farangs”.

http://screwtheninetofive.com/lessons-from-the-koh-tao-mafia/

July 2013

First of all, whilst this island is Thailand, it’s not run like the rest of Thailand. It’s still run by a lot of families, sort of like powerful mafia families who own and control segments of the island. It’s slowly changing into a more government-run island and they are now talking about adopting more official procedures for water, power, and waste management. Presently though, there are not many laws on the island for anything. For instance, Koh Tao only just got a ban on polystyrene!

http://wodara.org/2013/07/14/live-on-a-tiny-thai-island/

Jan 2014 Nick Pearson Thailand death: Mum believes son was murdered

The inquest, opened earlier this year as a result of Nick's death being treated as suspicious, was told the family had been out for a meal and drinks to celebrate the new year.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-derbyshire-30546787

14th Sept 2014 British girls mugged by Thai motorbike gang in the same spot backpackers were murdered

While the women were unhurt in the attack, police are desperately trying to catch the culprits as the robbery took place on the same stretch of beach on the island of Koh Tao, where the bodies of backpackers David Miller 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, were found in the early hours of last Monday morning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11112016/British-girls-mugged-by-Thai-motorbike-gang-in-the-same-spot-backpackers-were-murdered.html

On the last incident, notice how, while the local police had no trouble finding CCTV of the Burmese kids on a motorbike, their "desperate" attempts to identify the Thai motorbike gang turned up nothing. I guess even more CCTV cameras were out of action that night than at the time of the murders.

[thailandchilli]

May 2012

Our landlord was a powerful man on the island and the police said full stop that they would not get involved with him, no matter what he did. Make no mistake… this is no poverty-striken man trying to make enough money to feed his family by charging privileged white people a few extra bucks. This is a wealthy, powerful Thai man who controls several businesses and a lot of property on the island

http://www.alexinwanderland.com/2012/05/30/living-lawless-with-the-landlord-from-hell/

On the last incident, notice how, while the local police had no trouble finding CCTV of the Burmese kids on a motorbike, their "desperate" attempts to identify the Thai motorbike gang turned up nothing. I guess even more CCTV cameras were out of action that night than at the time of the murders.

I also think one significant theme that is in most of the reports is just how powerful the families are on Koh Tao and an admission from the RTP that they wouldn't touch them no matter what they did. A pretty accurate description of what we've seen so far.

[Bung]

That island is ripe for an undercover documentary. I'm sure some hidden camera footage would show a lot about what goes on there and be quite revealing.

[Just1Voice]

That island is ripe for an undercover documentary. I'm sure some hidden camera footage would show a lot about what goes on there and be quite revealing.

I agree, but God help the undercover man/woman if they were discovered.

[stephenterry]

What doesn't make sense is that if Hannah's blood was on the hoe blade, then the perp's DNA MUST have been on the handle alongside Hannah's. I am wondering if there were TWO female DNA on the handle, one of which could match Hannah's, and the conclusion reached was that it was ALL hers.

There has been several inconsistencies in this murder that I had doubts about. Most, if not all of these, could be answered if a Thai woman killed Hannah.

1. The alleged altercation at the AC bar. A jealous G/F? that was brushed aside, but not forgotten. Males would laugh and joke and not take it seriously.
   
2. A woman seen fleeing from the scene? Maybe one of Hannah's 'new' friends accompanying her back to her hotel who was told to run for her life when Hannah was attacked.
   
3. Inconsistencies in autopsy reports: rape or no rape? Bite marks or no bite marks? Strange that the Thai report would indicate bite marks. Why?
   
4. A blonde hair clutched in Hannah's hand (colour was assumed, but it could have been dyed). Females fight and hold hair.
   
5. A reluctance for the RTP to provide Hannah's clothing. Admittedly, it could show the perps DNA - but what if it was female? And the RTP feared that Pornthip would find that out. That would blow the case right out of the water.
   
6. The attack. Such ferocity is more than rejection, IMO. Thai females can kill if another threatens their 'face'. Was it jealously that brought on such an attack?
   
7. The staging of the body. That is not a male thing. It's a female showing Hannah as being a slut.
   
8. The recent reports of hoe man's (now wife) wielding a hoe. Any significance? A message to other females not to mess with her?
   

Mon's involvement. He and Nomsod could be implicit in covering up for Hoe man's G/F, especially if either or both were involved in killing David. IMO his death was as a result of him 'being in the way' but Hannah's death was pure hate.

[stephenterry]

The rtp not checking the ferry Cctv because the perps were on the island. Nomsod was told to get out in case he was implicated, the others Mon could cover by denial. I think Nomsod was involved in David death or at least witnessed it and the subsequent death of Hannah.

[stephenterry]

And maybe that's why the first Rtp were checking women because they had a tip off. And if they had identified the woman and she implicated Nomsod he would rely on his bkk alibi.

[StealthEnergiser]

[StealthEnergiser]

Meanwhile, investigators detained Montriwat Tuwichian, 45, a younger brother of Mr Woraphan, after confirming Mr Montriwat is the Asian-looking suspect caught in security camera images a few hours before the two Britons were found dead on the beach on the morning of September 15.

Police began questioning him at 11am yesterday and released him three hours later, lacking evidence or witnesses to substantiate criminal charges against him.

However, Pol Lt Gen Panya, who participated in the questioning of Mr Montriwat, said police believe they have identified all the key people of interest.

Mr Montriwat runs the AC Bar where Witheridge and Miller were last seen on the night they were killed.

Pol Lt Gen Panya also confirmed that Mr Montriwat is the man captured in the AC Bar's security cameras.

"Please trust the authorities on this," he said. "We're not going to make anyone a scapegoat

-

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-police-scour-bangkok-for-koh-tao-murder-suspect-48850.php

[BritTim]

jhtw1.jpg

Note the date (25 Sep 2014). This was during the tenure of Lt Gen Panya Mamen. Clearing Mon and Nomsod took just 24 hours. Some have claimed Panya was trying hard to find the real villains. If there is any connection between his promotion (1 Oct 2014) to Assistant Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok and protecting the Tuwichians (which I do not believe) it would surely be that the promotion was a reward for providing that protection.

Personally, I am convinced that Panya already knew about the promotion, and was not particularly concerned about the case. Sean McKenna's panicked posts on social media made Mon and his pet police sidekick impossible to totally ignore. The local Koh Tao police said the Tawichians had cooperated and were in the clear. Panya could not be bothered to check and just repeated this to the media.

[Trisha61]

When will the amateur Sherlocks realise that their "clues" have nothing to do with the matter in hand....the issue is there is no fair trial - the "evidence" or their Clues are irrelevant.

I understand why you cringe at the critique of the RTP's (non) investigation, but it is not senseless. Public attention and opinion has little impact on a first world criminal justice system. In a country like Thailand, the only real chance for a relatively fair and transparent process is to keep the spotlight firmly focused on it. What is said in court, and the obvious framing of the Burmese, will be covered up (along with the original crime) unless maximum effort is made to make it known. The leading media companies and human rights organizations are most important in this, but forums such as this also play a part.

Just saying "unfair" has no effect on those who have not been following the case closely. Statements like

• The RTP claim rape; Dr Pornthip and UK postmortem report claim falsified Thai autopsy report and probably no rape
• RTP cannot produce claimed semen samples
• No investigation of bar where Hannah and David were last seen alive
• RTP did not try to stop people leaving after the murders, or check CCTV to see who fled
• Victims clothing not checked for DNA traces; may even have been "lost"

can lead a few more people to pay attention and ultimately increase the pressure on the Thai authorities. Yes, sometimes I want to cringe, especially when inaccurate claims are made, but there is method to our madness.

Well said BritTim....... Here, Here!

[Trisha61]

In the photo albums of Hoe Man's FaceBook, his girlfriend colours her hair in all sorts of colours. This was taken in October last year, no photos of her in September....would that hair appear blond in cctv's?

To be honest I don't think hoe man has anything to do with the actual crime, he's just a sick attention seeking individual.

Yes he is likely an immature attention-seeking man, but in re; to the crime, he's a 'person-of-interest' at least. He knows (and maybe is buddies with) Mon, who is the linchpin in solving the case. 'Hoe Man' is a party animal as are other persons-of-interest connected to Mon. He's big and strong enough to have been a viable opponent to David. Perhaps he's not as high on the list of 'probable perps' as Stingray Man or Mon's 'Big Ear' cop friend, or the two cops who like to prance around drunk with blond wigs, or Nomsod ......but that whole gang should have their clocks cleaned. Anything less is blatant dereliction of duty by RTP investigators, ......or purposefully botching the investigation in order to shield certain people from scrutiny. Heads should roll. Are you listening, Mr. PM?

Bl**dy well said Boomer!

[boomerangutang]

jhtw1.jpg

Note the date (25 Sep 2014). This was during the tenure of Lt Gen Panya Mamen. Clearing Mon and Nomsod took just 24 hours. Some have claimed Panya was trying hard to find the real villains. If there is any connection between his promotion (1 Oct 2014) to Assistant Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok and protecting the Tuwichians (which I do not believe) it would surely be that the promotion was a reward for providing that protection.

Personally, I am convinced that Panya already knew about the promotion, and was not particularly concerned about the case. Sean McKenna's panicked posts on social media made Mon and his pet police sidekick impossible to totally ignore. The local Koh Tao police said the Tawichians had cooperated and were in the clear. Panya could not be bothered to check and just repeated this to the media.

First off, I think the blond hair belonged to one of the two cops' wigs, both of which were completely blond. However, RTP did mention a root on the hair, and wig hairs don't have individual roots, do they? Yet, the cops seemed sure the hair was blonde, which is a observational feat in itself, looking at just one hair. 50% of Thai chicks wish they had blond hair, but when they bleach their black hair it becomes reddish - as shown in 'Hoe Man's' g.f.'s pic. I don't completely discount she's involved, but I doubt it. However she, like a dozen or two others on the island, probably knows who was involved, and like all those others, won't tell what she knows.

As for the initial head investigating cop: Panya appeared to be doing his job somewhat well, in terms of trying to find who did the crime. He and his team missed and disregarded many clues, but we've come to expect that from even the best Thai crime investigators. I don't think Panya deliberately trashed clues in those first few days, but the successor team headed by Somyot did. And of course Mon was busy from the time of the crime onwards, frantically trying to alter, hide, and destroy evidence.

When Panya was jerked off the job (in order to change the direction of the investigation to not mention anyone connected to the Headman), he was given a promotion, a desk job in Bkk and told to keep mum. He and other cops on his team were probably also given money bonuses, as alluded to by the PM at the time (rewards for doing excellent jobs).

[thailandchilli]

What doesn't make sense is that if Hannah's blood was on the hoe blade, then the perp's DNA MUST have been on the handle alongside Hannah's. I am wondering if there were TWO female DNA on the handle, one of which could match Hannah's, and the conclusion reached was that it was ALL hers.

There has been several inconsistencies in this murder that I had doubts about. Most, if not all of these, could be answered if a Thai woman killed Hannah.

1. The alleged altercation at the AC bar. A jealous G/F? that was brushed aside, but not forgotten. Males would laugh and joke and not take it seriously.
2. A woman seen fleeing from the scene? Maybe one of Hannah's 'new' friends accompanying her back to her hotel who was told to run for her life when Hannah was attacked.
3. Inconsistencies in autopsy reports: rape or no rape? Bite marks or no bite marks? Strange that the Thai report would indicate bite marks. Why?
4. A blonde hair clutched in Hannah's hand (colour was assumed, but it could have been dyed). Females fight and hold hair.
5. A reluctance for the RTP to provide Hannah's clothing. Admittedly, it could show the perps DNA - but what if it was female? And the RTP feared that Pornthip would find that out. That would blow the case right out of the water.
6. The attack. Such ferocity is more than rejection, IMO. Thai females can kill if another threatens their 'face'. Was it jealously that brought on such an attack?
7. The staging of the body. That is not a male thing. It's a female showing Hannah as being a slut.
8. The recent reports of hoe man's (now wife) wielding a hoe. Any significance? A message to other females not to mess with her?

Mon's involvement. He and Nomsod could be implicit in covering up for Hoe man's G/F, especially if either or both were involved in killing David. IMO his death was as a result of him 'being in the way' but Hannah's death was pure hate.

Just to add to the above. Females can also be known for some extremely horrific love triangle revenge attacks using acid to completely disfigure the victim, its happened numerous times in Thailand.

As many posters have already mentioned, the hair/s are the key to the real killer/s. Natural justice at its finest. Hannah's struggle was obviously the most horrific encounter she had faced in her life, before her gruesome death she was able to make a grab at attackers head and in this act pulled out his/her hair. For Gods sake find who this hair belongs to, find the real killers!

Instead we get the RTP lying to the court on oath about their involvement with the hair:

The hair, which still had the root attached when it was found on Ms Witheridge’s body by the Royal Thai Police pathologist during her autopsy, was sent for testing. The strand test revealed it had not come from either 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, or Jersey tourist David Miller, 24, who was murdered alongside her.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

The hair in Hannah's hand did contain roots so we can discount wigs:

Thai Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod said that a hair with roots that was found in Ms Witheridge’s hand had not been pursued as a lead in the case. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16286-koh-tao-defendant-tells-court-of-torture.html

We also reports of other blonde hairs:

There was also blonde hair on a mobile telephone police have now located. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11103274/DNA-found-on-body-of-murdered-British-backpacker-in-Thailand-no-match-to-suspects.html

Its been reported that the pathologist put the hair found in Hannah's hand aside. Oh really so where is it now and why did you not send it to Dr Pornthip? There can only be one reasonable answer to that question and that being that they are hiding this evidence on purpose. Justice for the victims? No chance. Respect for the victims shown by this ZERO.

Edited October 6, 2015 by thailandchilli

[sweatalot]

jhtw1.jpg

Note the date (25 Sep 2014). This was during the tenure of Lt Gen Panya Mamen. Clearing Mon and Nomsod took just 24 hours. Some have claimed Panya was trying hard to find the real villains. If there is any connection between his promotion (1 Oct 2014) to Assistant Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok and protecting the Tuwichians (which I do not believe) it would surely be that the promotion was a reward for providing that protection.

Personally, I am convinced that Panya already knew about the promotion, and was not particularly concerned about the case. Sean McKenna's panicked posts on social media made Mon and his pet police sidekick impossible to totally ignore. The local Koh Tao police said the Tawichians had cooperated and were in the clear. Panya could not be bothered to check and just repeated this to the media.

First off, I think the blond hair belonged to one of the two cops' wigs, both of which were completely blond. However, RTP did mention a root on the hair, and wig hairs don't have individual roots, do they? Yet, the cops seemed sure the hair was blonde, which is a observational feat in itself, looking at just one hair. 50% of Thai chicks wish they had blond hair, but when they bleach their black hair it becomes reddish - as shown in 'Hoe Man's' g.f.'s pic. I don't completely discount she's involved, but I doubt it. However she, like a dozen or two others on the island, probably knows who was involved, and like all those others, won't tell what she knows.

As for the initial head investigating cop: Panya appeared to be doing his job somewhat well, in terms of trying to find who did the crime. He and his team missed and disregarded many clues, but we've come to expect that from even the best Thai crime investigators. I don't think Panya deliberately trashed clues in those first few days, but the successor team headed by Somyot did. And of course Mon was busy from the time of the crime onwards, frantically trying to alter, hide, and destroy evidence.

When Panya was jerked off the job (in order to change the direction of the investigation to not mention anyone connected to the Headman), he was given a promotion, a desk job in Bkk and told to keep mum. He and other cops on his team were probably also given money bonuses, as alluded to by the PM at the time (rewards for doing excellent jobs).

Would fit very well in the whole set up

but his promotion and transfer has been planned before this murder case

- if I can trust my memory

Edited October 6, 2015 by sweatalot

[stephenterry]

What doesn't make sense is that if Hannah's blood was on the hoe blade, then the perp's DNA MUST have been on the handle alongside Hannah's. I am wondering if there were TWO female DNA on the handle, one of which could match Hannah's, and the conclusion reached was that it was ALL hers.

There has been several inconsistencies in this murder that I had doubts about. Most, if not all of these, could be answered if a Thai woman killed Hannah.

1. The alleged altercation at the AC bar. A jealous G/F? that was brushed aside, but not forgotten. Males would laugh and joke and not take it seriously.
2. A woman seen fleeing from the scene? Maybe one of Hannah's 'new' friends accompanying her back to her hotel who was told to run for her life when Hannah was attacked.
3. Inconsistencies in autopsy reports: rape or no rape? Bite marks or no bite marks? Strange that the Thai report would indicate bite marks. Why?
4. A blonde hair clutched in Hannah's hand (colour was assumed, but it could have been dyed). Females fight and hold hair.
5. A reluctance for the RTP to provide Hannah's clothing. Admittedly, it could show the perps DNA - but what if it was female? And the RTP feared that Pornthip would find that out. That would blow the case right out of the water.
6. The attack. Such ferocity is more than rejection, IMO. Thai females can kill if another threatens their 'face'. Was it jealously that brought on such an attack?
7. The staging of the body. That is not a male thing. It's a female showing Hannah as being a slut.
8. The recent reports of hoe man's (now wife) wielding a hoe. Any significance? A message to other females not to mess with her?

Mon's involvement. He and Nomsod could be implicit in covering up for Hoe man's G/F, especially if either or both were involved in killing David. IMO his death was as a result of him 'being in the way' but Hannah's death was pure hate.

Just to add to the above. Females can also be known for some extremely horrific love triangle revenge attacks using acid to completely disfigure the victim, its happened numerous times in Thailand.

As many posters have already mentioned, the hair/s are the key to the real killer/s. Natural justice at its finest. Hannah's struggle was obviously the most horrific encounter she had faced in her life, before her gruesome death she was able to make a grab at attackers head and in this act pulled out his/her hair. For Gods sake find who this hair belongs to, find the real killers!

Instead we get the RTP lying to the court on oath about their involvement with the hair:

The hair, which still had the root attached when it was found on Ms Witheridge’s body by the Royal Thai Police pathologist during her autopsy, was sent for testing. The strand test revealed it had not come from either 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, or Jersey tourist David Miller, 24, who was murdered alongside her.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

The hair in Hannah's hand did contain roots so we can discount wigs:

Thai Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod said that a hair with roots that was found in Ms Witheridge’s hand had not been pursued as a lead in the case. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16286-koh-tao-defendant-tells-court-of-torture.html

We also reports of other blonde hairs:

There was also blonde hair on a mobile telephone police have now located. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11103274/DNA-found-on-body-of-murdered-British-backpacker-in-Thailand-no-match-to-suspects.html

Its been reported that the pathologist put the hair found in Hannah's hand aside. Oh really so where is it now and why did you not send it to Dr Pornthip? There can only be one reasonable answer to that question and that being that they are hiding this evidence on purpose. Justice for the victims? No chance. Respect for the victims shown by this ZERO.

I agree. Somsak Nurod should be arrested for perverting the course of justice. I would not be surprised if the DNA on it was from a female, which could explain this subterfuge by a corrupt police officer. Exactly the same reasons why Hannah's clothes were not presented to court - because there was female DNA on them.

Before you call it pure speculation, here is another stance:

As no-one knows who the real perps are, IMO no one has offered any real motive for why a) Mon should want to brutally kill two of his tourist income streams, and why Nomsod (or any other thug) would resort to such extreme violence and carry out a body staging for being rejected. And if that was the case why wouldn't he have raped her first, to show control?

While I can visualise and accept a male attack on David to get him out of the way, the same doesn't apply to Hannah as it adds up as more likely a female attack - and especially when hoe man's G/F is seen prancing around wielding a hoe. She is a prime suspect, as is Hoe man. So I'm sticking with my supposition, it was a jealous Thai woman who attacked and killed Hannah.

Edited October 6, 2015 by stephenterry

[StealthEnergiser]

What doesn't make sense is that if Hannah's blood was on the hoe blade, then the perp's DNA MUST have been on the handle alongside Hannah's. I am wondering if there were TWO female DNA on the handle, one of which could match Hannah's, and the conclusion reached was that it was ALL hers.

There has been several inconsistencies in this murder that I had doubts about. Most, if not all of these, could be answered if a Thai woman killed Hannah.

1. The alleged altercation at the AC bar. A jealous G/F? that was brushed aside, but not forgotten. Males would laugh and joke and not take it seriously.
2. A woman seen fleeing from the scene? Maybe one of Hannah's 'new' friends accompanying her back to her hotel who was told to run for her life when Hannah was attacked.
3. Inconsistencies in autopsy reports: rape or no rape? Bite marks or no bite marks? Strange that the Thai report would indicate bite marks. Why?
4. A blonde hair clutched in Hannah's hand (colour was assumed, but it could have been dyed). Females fight and hold hair.
5. A reluctance for the RTP to provide Hannah's clothing. Admittedly, it could show the perps DNA - but what if it was female? And the RTP feared that Pornthip would find that out. That would blow the case right out of the water.
6. The attack. Such ferocity is more than rejection, IMO. Thai females can kill if another threatens their 'face'. Was it jealously that brought on such an attack?
7. The staging of the body. That is not a male thing. It's a female showing Hannah as being a slut.
8. The recent reports of hoe man's (now wife) wielding a hoe. Any significance? A message to other females not to mess with her?

Mon's involvement. He and Nomsod could be implicit in covering up for Hoe man's G/F, especially if either or both were involved in killing David. IMO his death was as a result of him 'being in the way' but Hannah's death was pure hate.

Just to add to the above. Females can also be known for some extremely horrific love triangle revenge attacks using acid to completely disfigure the victim, its happened numerous times in Thailand.

As many posters have already mentioned, the hair/s are the key to the real killer/s. Natural justice at its finest. Hannah's struggle was obviously the most horrific encounter she had faced in her life, before her gruesome death she was able to make a grab at attackers head and in this act pulled out his/her hair. For Gods sake find who this hair belongs to, find the real killers!

Instead we get the RTP lying to the court on oath about their involvement with the hair:

The hair, which still had the root attached when it was found on Ms Witheridge’s body by the Royal Thai Police pathologist during her autopsy, was sent for testing. The strand test revealed it had not come from either 23 year-old Ms Witheridge, or Jersey tourist David Miller, 24, who was murdered alongside her.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand. http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995

The hair in Hannah's hand did contain roots so we can discount wigs:

Thai Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod said that a hair with roots that was found in Ms Witheridge’s hand had not been pursued as a lead in the case. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16286-koh-tao-defendant-tells-court-of-torture.html

We also reports of other blonde hairs:

There was also blonde hair on a mobile telephone police have now located. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/11103274/DNA-found-on-body-of-murdered-British-backpacker-in-Thailand-no-match-to-suspects.html

Its been reported that the pathologist put the hair found in Hannah's hand aside. Oh really so where is it now and why did you not send it to Dr Pornthip? There can only be one reasonable answer to that question and that being that they are hiding this evidence on purpose. Justice for the victims? No chance. Respect for the victims shown by this ZERO.

I agree. Somsak Nurod should be arrested for perverting the course of justice. I would not be surprised if the DNA on it was from a female, which could explain this subterfuge by a corrupt police officer. Exactly the same reasons why Hannah's clothes were not presented to court - because there was female DNA on them.

Before you call it pure speculation, here is another stance:

As no-one knows who the real perps are, IMO no one has offered any real motive for why a) Mon should want to brutally kill two of his tourist income streams, and why Nomsod (or any other thug) would resort to such extreme violence and carry out a body staging for being rejected. And if that was the case why wouldn't he have raped her first, to show control?

While I can visualise and accept a male attack on David to get him out of the way, the same doesn't apply to Hannah as it adds up as more likely a female attack - and especially when hoe man's G/F is seen prancing around wielding a hoe. She is a prime suspect, as is Hoe man. So I'm sticking with my supposition, it was a jealous Thai woman who attacked and killed Hannah.

On the Csi Facebook page there was this posted quite a while back in oct 26 2014 there was a lady named kitty Takky .

CsiLa said she was trying to feed him false information.

Quote from the page

"Do you remember this lady? This man is her brother. His name is Chet. He is also a police in Koh Tao. This lady told her brother to mislead me but I never bought his story.

[stephenterry]

jhtw1.jpg

Note the date (25 Sep 2014). This was during the tenure of Lt Gen Panya Mamen. Clearing Mon and Nomsod took just 24 hours. Some have claimed Panya was trying hard to find the real villains. If there is any connection between his promotion (1 Oct 2014) to Assistant Commissioner-General of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok and protecting the Tuwichians (which I do not believe) it would surely be that the promotion was a reward for providing that protection.

Personally, I am convinced that Panya already knew about the promotion, and was not particularly concerned about the case. Sean McKenna's panicked posts on social media made Mon and his pet police sidekick impossible to totally ignore. The local Koh Tao police said the Tawichians had cooperated and were in the clear. Panya could not be bothered to check and just repeated this to the media.

First off, I think the blond hair belonged to one of the two cops' wigs, both of which were completely blond. However, RTP did mention a root on the hair, and wig hairs don't have individual roots, do they? Yet, the cops seemed sure the hair was blonde, which is a observational feat in itself, looking at just one hair. 50% of Thai chicks wish they had blond hair, but when they bleach their black hair it becomes reddish - as shown in 'Hoe Man's' g.f.'s pic. I don't completely discount she's involved, but I doubt it. However she, like a dozen or two others on the island, probably knows who was involved, and like all those others, won't tell what she knows.

As for the initial head investigating cop: Panya appeared to be doing his job somewhat well, in terms of trying to find who did the crime. He and his team missed and disregarded many clues, but we've come to expect that from even the best Thai crime investigators. I don't think Panya deliberately trashed clues in those first few days, but the successor team headed by Somyot did. And of course Mon was busy from the time of the crime onwards, frantically trying to alter, hide, and destroy evidence.

When Panya was jerked off the job (in order to change the direction of the investigation to not mention anyone connected to the Headman), he was given a promotion, a desk job in Bkk and told to keep mum. He and other cops on his team were probably also given money bonuses, as alluded to by the PM at the time (rewards for doing excellent jobs).

Would fit very well in the whole set up

but his promotion and transfer has been planned before this murder case

- if I can trust my memory

While that could be true statement, it doesn't quite answer why he was pulled off the case at such a critical time, just after he released a report that he had evidence that connected both Mon and Nomsod to the crime scene. I think that caused a few ruffling of feathers, and he backtracked out of it over the few following days until 'Jackdaw' (appointed by Somyot) took over.

Anyway - off current topic, and debated to death on this forum.

[theoldgit]

A troll post and a number of responses removed.

[stephenterry]

Stealth Energiser posted:

On the Csi Facebook page there was this posted quite a while back in oct 26 2014 there was a lady named kitty Takky .

CsiLa said she was trying to feed him false information.

Quote from the page

"Do you remember this lady? This man is her brother. His name is Chet. He is also a police in Koh Tao. This lady told her brother to mislead me but I never bought his story.

That raises a question as to why this female became involved in this case. Too close to home, perhaps?

[StealthEnergiser]

Stealth Energiser posted:

On the Csi Facebook page there was this posted quite a while back in oct 26 2014 there was a lady named kitty Takky .

CsiLa said she was trying to feed him false information.

Quote from the page

"Do you remember this lady? This man is her brother. His name is Chet. He is also a police in Koh Tao. This lady told her brother to mislead me but I never bought his story.

That raises a question as to why this female became involved in this case. Too close to home, perhaps?

A bit more about Chet by googling "Koh Tao Murders - Don’t Kiss Me Goodnight Sergeant Major "

[StealthEnergiser]

Facebook page of the guy next to mon

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004413677403&fref=ts&hc_location=ufi

[thailandchilli]

aa.jpg

Facebook page of the guy next to mon

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004413677403&fref=ts&hc_location=ufi

It was that cop guy along with Mon who at first refused to take DNA tests. Mon however then went onto have a test (allegedly) but there's no report of the cop ever having one.