Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[cookee68]

So they should walk I would guess

It is only on the supposed murder weapon, i want to see what they say about the DNA on the body first, that is the killer blow in this case, because they always said the hoe was washed and cleaned, lets see how they get over the other DNA found, which is more concerning

Give them a chance. This is only their 2nd day in court. The defense team are pros and experts at this so it is guaranteed that they will leave no holes in the defense like the prosecution have done to the RTP's case.

Just wait...

Credit given at this moment, but lots more to do before completely convinced

[KunMatt]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

not if they were wearing gloves, it would have the people before them

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

[Dogmatix]

Oh really what a suprise NOT...

The Police Chief is on TV show boating about the corrupt immigration police whilist his own men are the most corrupt in Thailand. These 2 were framed up nicely. Reason is they not want charge a Thai for this dirty disgraceful act.. They are cowards thats why and the police are lazy and useless

Wake up Chief the good old PM may investigate you and he should. Your unit has given Thailand a bad name worldwide

Rorters

You forget that the man put in charge of the investigation to expedite things, resulting in the rapid arrests of the 2B is about to become police chief for the next 5 years.

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Crucial issue day 15 Koh Tao trial: Dr. Pornthip said police investigators should have tested Hannah's skirt/top for perpetrator's DNA

3:27 AM - 11 Sep 2015

[crazykopite]

Hate to say this but if it were a British Court there would be no case to answer and the judge would dismiss the Jury however in Thailand there is no jury the judge is the jury as well as executioner and as the self elected PM had made a statement saying these guys were guilty of the crime the judge will be under great pressure to find a guilty even if not proven and sentence them both to death. No wonder they call the country AMAZING THAILAND !!!

[Dogmatix]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

There are a lot of photos of the hoe in the public domain.

It was moved about the crime scene a bit because of the perfect investigation ... but easy to see it is a mess of blood. When exaclty was it meant to have been washed?

You'd have to be blind or stupid to believe that story.

Exactly. Why would the killers or their accomplices, or even a half blind Burmese gardener working for Mon, go the trouble of washing DNA off the handle of the hoe but leave the copious splashings of blood on it. Even if they did, why would they still leave two men's DNA on the handle? Were they informed in advance that police would only look for DNA on the handle of bloodied murder weapon with a magnifying glass, or were they already familiar with police visual DNA collection methods?

[little mary sunshine]

Hope these guys sue the police for false imprisonment,

Conspiracy to falsely convict them, false arrest, deformation,

And any other charges their lawyers can find. Should

Be compensated ...B20,000000 each.

[thailandchilli]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Crucial issue day 15 Koh Tao trial: Dr. Pornthip said police investigators should have tested Hannah's skirt/top for perpetrator's DNA

3:27 AM - 11 Sep 2015

Maybe they did, they just didn't like the results so kept it hidden, after all we have court statements from Pol.Lt.Col. Kewalee saying they did test the hoe and found no DNA and now we know the real truth that there are 2 trace samples on it

[cookee68]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

not if they were wearing gloves, it would have the people before them

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

This is Thailand who knows, shit happens every day, maybe there was no DNA on the hoe, then after they tested it maybe the RTP left their DNA on it who knows, it was not there when the RTP tested it, but who handled it after that before the Defence tested it, that's the question to be answered.

[mcm991]

Except that the RTP have always said that this hoe was the murder weapon for the 2 victims and now the defense have proved that there are 2 DNA samples on it which are no the accused. So the murder weapon is not totally clean of any DNA, it just doesn't have either of the B2 on it which is a pretty big deal when it is stated that it was used to kill 2 people by them.

not if they were wearing gloves, it would have the people before them

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

This is Thailand who knows, shit happens every day, maybe there was no DNA on the hoe, then after they tested it maybe the RTP left their DNA on it who knows, it was not there when the RTP tested it, but who handled it after that before the Defence tested it, that's the question to be answered.

I think someone needs to post a photo or two of the hoe again .....

before anyone else says that maybe there was not any DNA on it.

[thailandchilli]

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

This is Thailand who knows, shit happens every day, maybe there was no DNA on the hoe, then after they tested it maybe the RTP left their DNA on it who knows, it was not there when the RTP tested it, but who handled it after that before the Defence tested it, that's the question to be answered.

Yea shit happens every day, lets all presume the the DNA was put there after they tested it first, great the RTP will love you, any other bright thoughts

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Re: Hannah's skirt/top, likely crucial evidence identifying perpetrator of this horrific crime, defense lawyers no idea where they have gone

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Defense lawyers said Hannah's skirt and top are not in the official list of Koh Tao murder case evidence. Very important issue.

[StealthEnergiser]

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Another crucial issue in Dr Pornthip testimony she raised concerns on/pointed out inadequacies/suspicions on all case DNA testing processes

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Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Dr Pornthip said several material irregularities in all DNA testing processes Koh Tao case that needed further explanation/justification

[phuketandsee]

So the Question is <D<>E<>L<>E<>T<>E<>D> did they not check that in the first place before they locked up those two innocent people .They could have been looking for the real Killers from Day one,,,,,incompetent fools,,,,,

Where have you been sleeping? They started off looking for the real killers but were lent on from a great height when they got too close. My guess is they did test the hoe (there were videos of it being swabbed a while back) but found the evidence pointed to the "wrong" (i.e. right) culprits.

[bbbbooboo]

Stupid IS what stupid DOES ?

[sabaii69]

I am pretty dam old but didn't trials take place before the wizardry of DNA? Do we walk around dripping this stuff?

[benbear]

Sitting back and watching the whole farce fall apart. Hope to see the 2 lads free asap,also looking forward to excuses and some finger pointing of a differnet kind the the old boys in brown

[cookee68]

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

This is Thailand who knows, shit happens every day, maybe there was no DNA on the hoe, then after they tested it maybe the RTP left their DNA on it who knows, it was not there when the RTP tested it, but who handled it after that before the Defence tested it, that's the question to be answered.

Yea shit happens every day, lets all presume the the DNA was put there after they tested it first, great the RTP will love you, any other bright thoughts

do you, thats not what they should worry about, it is the DNA on the body that will be their biggest hurdle and needs explaining, we are not in the UK , so it needs a good explanation, proof is not needed in Thailand, so we will wait and see

[GOLDBUGGY]

First of all this damning DNA Evidence is not mine. It belongs to the Prosecutor. I hold no DNA Evidence on anyone whatsoever.

If you chose to believe that this DNA Evidence is only a verbal statement in court, then go ahead, as this would be wrong. But you are entitled to believe whatever you want to.

The hoe in itself is a moot point even with someones else's DNA on it. If you could prove through Ballistics that the murder weapon was a gun, but yet several people afterwards handled this gun and their finger prints were on it even if the accused wasn't, does it prove one of them others killed this person? Or does it open the possibility that someone wiped his finger prints off, who actually did the crime?

If you read this full article you would have seen that the Prosecution does not agree with you.That they do in fact believe they have evidence that links the accused to Hannah and it was presented. If you have a beef about that then I suggest you contact them for a correction.

Yes, I am quite sure the prosecution does not agree with me, nor I them and I do not believe that without the proper chain of custody (as the defence complained was not provided ) that the DNA samples form the victim can be trusted.

Also, try to catch up to speed with figures of speech.

Fair enough!

So now the Defense has an opportunity to prove that this Chain of Custody was not followed, instead of just complain about it to the media.

Difficult to do that if the RTP refuse to hand over the document:

The defense lawyers have expressed concern about their inability to access ‘chains of custody’ from the investigation, which are documents tracking the collection, movement, processing, and current location of all physical evidence. The lawyers, who have requested the documents but not recieved them, said they want to confirm that no evidence was tampered with in the process. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064

As mentioned. If they still haven't received anything yet they have there chance in court now to prove that.

Do you know for sure what those documents were that the Prosecution handed over at the last minute as I don't?

[thailandchilli]

But the RTP said there was zero DNA on thr hoe because it had been washed. The defense found 2 DNA samples.

Also, you really believe that the opportunistic killers and rapists were prepared enough to bring gloves with them but didn't use condoms, is that the current version of this story??

This is Thailand who knows, shit happens every day, maybe there was no DNA on the hoe, then after they tested it maybe the RTP left their DNA on it who knows, it was not there when the RTP tested it, but who handled it after that before the Defence tested it, that's the question to be answered.

Yea shit happens every day, lets all presume the the DNA was put there after they tested it first, great the RTP will love you, any other bright thoughts

do you, thats not what they should worry about, it is the DNA on the body that will be their biggest hurdle and needs explaining, we are not in the UK , so it needs a good explanation, proof is not needed in Thailand, so we will wait and see

The DNA in the victim and on the body, are you really telling me that after the prosecution failed to provide any chain of custody in a DNA report that arose from samples taken by the RTP, tested by the RTP and delivered report by the RTP can be trusted in this case after the catalogue of errors so far. If you can you have more trust than the rest of the world thats watching this farce.

[diehard60]

so I guess they go free. Right????????

[thailandchilli]

Yes, I am quite sure the prosecution does not agree with me, nor I them and I do not believe that without the proper chain of custody (as the defence complained was not provided ) that the DNA samples form the victim can be trusted.

Also, try to catch up to speed with figures of speech.

Fair enough!

So now the Defense has an opportunity to prove that this Chain of Custody was not followed, instead of just complain about it to the media.

Difficult to do that if the RTP refuse to hand over the document:

The defense lawyers have expressed concern about their inability to access ‘chains of custody’ from the investigation, which are documents tracking the collection, movement, processing, and current location of all physical evidence. The lawyers, who have requested the documents but not recieved them, said they want to confirm that no evidence was tampered with in the process. http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1437793064

As mentioned. If they still haven't received anything yet they have there chance in court now to prove that.

Do you know for sure what those documents were that the Prosecution handed over at the last minute as I don't?

Oh right sure GoldBuggy, the same way they proved the tortures because the RTP failed to attend an investigation into them before the trial commenced. How can you prove anything if you do not have the evidence provided by the RTP, but that itself speaks volumes to normal reasonable and logical observers including the many human rights organizations attending the trial.

[Shermanator]

Almost opened my bottle of Kilbeggan over this but then read that it was the hoe DNA... As much as I wish for the B2 to be released and see the corrupt RTP swi..., sorry, officers in charge being fried in public for their "paid services" provided to sinister mafiosi, I fear that it is far from over for the patsies. Keeping my fingers crossed that the truth will come out eventually, but at the end of the day this is Thailand

[AleG]

Perfect example of non-event.

The police never said that DNA of the hoe to substantiate charge. Instead they declared that this hoe was washed and then manipulated by several people making impossible the exploitation.

Only DNA cigarette, the condom and especially sperm collected to inside the body of H. Witheridge correspond to those of two accused .

So needless to shake you like old flies on a fresh crap. This announcement is a blaring false news propageted by the defense that has so far no really convincing element to support 2B.

The defense so far seems preoccupied with beating around the bush in regards to the most relevant evidence and generating sensationalist headlines.

The only substantial rebuttal to the prosecution that I have seen so far is when they contested the illegal entry charges against one of the defendants by producing his passport in court.

Their alibi and account of the defendants actions on the day of the murders and after are still suspicious to say the least, they refused to contest the main DNA evidence and have so far resorted mainly to point claim that the physical evidence may be wrong without actually demonstrating so.

[lucaswallachia]

Well they did test the hoe originally:

[JLCrab]

I watched enough of the OJ Simpson trial real time in 1995 wherein an internationally renown team of DNA experts including the Founders of the Innocence Project were able to create before the jury sufficient reasonable doubt based on DNA evidence that Mr. Simpson did murder his wife such that I realize I know nothing about DNA as it pertains to criminal culpability in a criminal trial.

[sweatalot]

Well done Dr Porntip. She is best in class in forensics and the police should fear her professionalism as shown in many cases.

I don't know if she is best in forensics nor do I care.

Any properly educated forensic scientist should be able to do this research right

[cumgranosalum]

There are probably so many "samples" taken from the defendants, it would be easy for them to turn up anywhere now......if they were accidentally rediscovered.....

in any normal justice system something like that would spell the end for the prosecution.....however this is Thailand.

[Rykbanlor]

Well they did test the hoe originally:

And yet the prosecution claimed no DNA was retained from this.

More omissions that didn't fit their case. (Cops: We tested the hoe, but there was no goat DNA on it, ok lets ditch it, claim there was no DNA at all)

[cumgranosalum]

I am pretty dam old but didn't trials take place before the wizardry of DNA? Do we walk around dripping this stuff?

Yes!