Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[MrTee]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese, the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

You're right that absence of proof is not proof of absence..

But for the prosecution to present DNA evidence then they need to prove its not been tampered with.

.

It appears to me that the RTP have shown an stunning amount of incompetence; so much so I'd question their motives..

I've not been following this case closely but I read some where that the Hannah's Post-mortem produced some DNA..

Is it possible this can be introduced?

It will be interesting to learn just who's DNA was found on the hoe.

Edited September 11, 2015 by MrTee

[catsanddogs]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Re: Hannah's skirt/top, likely crucial evidence identifying perpetrator of this horrific crime, defense lawyers no idea where they have gone

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Defense lawyers said Hannah's skirt and top are not in the official list of Koh Tao murder case evidence. Very important issue.

Hannah's clothes most likely deliberately disposed of along with the hair found in her hand and the other murder weapons.

[fireplay]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese, the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

And the whole point being perhaps the DNA matches from the hoe should have been part of the evidence presented at the trial, but the fact is the RTP said there was no DNA on it and this has proven to be untrue.

Doesn't perjury exist in Thailand? Do witnesses testify under an oath?

[thailandchilli]

DNA matches from the hoe were never part of the prosecution case against the Burmese, the principal evidence is DNA evidence recovered from inside the body of the rape victim.

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

And the whole point being perhaps the DNA matches from the hoe should have been part of the evidence presented at the trial, but the fact is the RTP said there was no DNA on it and this has proven to be untrue.

Doesn't perjury exist in Thailand? Do witnesses testify under an oath?

I asked the exact same question here a week or so ago and a poster said yes they testify under oath and perjury or the equivalent does exist but is ignored or never enforced, so basically they can just say what they like with no serious repercussions, a recipe for deceit and lies to be told in court.

[Gweiloman]

It is no surprise that the prosecution's case is turning into a public farce - a lot of us believed that from day one.

What I can't understand is why are some posters still trying to convince the rest of us that it's possible the B2 are guilty. They make claims such as:

- sperm found IN Hannah matches the B2 - to the best of my knowledge, this was never stated. All that was stated is that DNA found matched the B2. It was never specified as to what the source of the DNA was (sperm or otherwise) and whether this was in or on Hannah.

- one poster we all know very well stated a couple of weeks ago that the hoe is very damning evidence. Now, we have expert testimony that the B2's DNA was not found on the hoe. It's not that damning anymore is it, Sacha? Having said that, if indeed the sperm in Hannah came from one or both of the B2, that only confirms sexual intercourse and not murder. But if so, then I would bet everything that it was not consensual and the B2 should then spend years behind bars.

No objective (operative word) person following the trial merely through newsfeeds and driblets could remain adamant that the B2 are the likely perps. Yet, they are adopting Custer's last stand in the face of overwhelming odds. Could it be that they are privy to real facts that the majority of us do not know? (I doubt that very much).

Personally, I'm disgusted by them and hope never to have the displeasure of ever meeting them in real life.

[gigman]

There is no solid proof at all from beginning. ...Same case in the last bombing case.

The whole legal procedures in Los need a serious changes from lowest ranks of police "cowboys"

They are still in 16 century state of witch hunting.

[MyFriend You]

Let them go now, it is plain as day that these two Burmese lads are just scapegoats, the sad thing is the real killers are still out there.

Agreed - with compensation !

Their Compensation will ne a quick deporting back to Burma. They have to be found guilty of somthing so the Prosecutor dosn't lose face so overstaying their work permit or lack of one is as good as any.

[catsanddogs]

Good piece from Khaosod:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1441971241&section=12&typecate=06

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

“We have told them to do their duty,” Nakhon said this afternoon.

Wonder if that will ever happen

"Nakhon said three more defense witnesses, all forensic institute experts, are due to take the stand when the trial continues 22 Sept".

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

A ray of hope. Wonder if Nakhon has any ideas whose DNA is on the hoe? They will be a few people shi**ing themselves right now and not before time.

[connda]

Surprise, surprise.

[Rykbanlor]

Good piece from Khaosod:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1441971241&section=12&typecate=06

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

“We have told them to do their duty,” Nakhon said this afternoon.

Wonder if that will ever happen

"Nakhon said three more defense witnesses, all forensic institute experts, are due to take the stand when the trial continues 22 Sept".

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

A ray of hope. Wonder if Nakhon has any ideas whose DNA is on the hoe? They will be a few people shi**ing themselves right now and not before time.

I remain pessimisstic on this front. While we may see an acquittal, i doubt we'll see true justice, but damn, do i wish it weren't so.

[papa al]

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

correct.

They are basing the case on coerced confessions.

[GanDoonToonPet]

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

Nothing proves their innocence. It's impossible to prove a negative. The whole system of justice in the majority of countries is based on this premise.

[MrTee]

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

Nothing proves their innocence. It's impossible to prove a negative. The whole system of justice in the majority of countries is based on this premise.

Well lets hope not..

Justice is supposedly about proving guilt, not proving innocence.

[boomerangutang]

Good piece from Khaosod:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1441971241&section=12&typecate=06

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

“We have told them to do their duty,” Nakhon said this afternoon.

Wonder if that will ever happen

"Nakhon said three more defense witnesses, all forensic institute experts, are due to take the stand when the trial continues 22 Sept".

Not a well-written article. Nakhon is not identified. Who is he? By inference, it appears Nakhon is a member of the defense team.

Also, if other (two?) men are ID'd to have DNA which matches the DNA found on the hoe, it doesn't for sure implicate the men who matched. One or more men may have handled the hoe before the murders. There would have to be additional corroborating evidence. Plus, until David's DNA is found on the hoe, it indicates the hoe was only used to harm Hannah.

[ttthailand]

There has been so much misinformation from the media and RTP that it is no wonder the posts go on and on repeating the same things and asking the same questions. The last month we have started to get some of the facts together and have found some so called facts to be fiction.

DNA can solve this case one way or the other if ( and a big if) true samples are tested again and confirmed by professional outsiders who don't have an agenda.

One thing I believe however we can be sure about is that the RTP investigation is not worth anything and is not reliable nor can be trusted.

The court needs to remove the police from this case and assign the army plus some British professionals so they can find the true killers. The Burmese should perhaps not be released yet but should be turned over to the army and treated like normal people and not murderers. The billions of dollars already lost from tourism are already gone but the face of the entire nation needs to be saved. A shift now by perhaps enacting art 44 would show the world that Thailand has a strong leader and has honest people not all corrupt people. But most of all it will show that they care about justice and also their guests. There maybe still hope for this country but they need to act quickly before it is too late.

Edited September 11, 2015 by ttthailand

[minikev]

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

You are having a laugh!

If you are to keep 2 people in chains and parade them to the world as murderers based on DNA evidence it is fairly important that their DNA matches that on the stated murder weapon.! The hoe was covered in blood in the 1st photo's released and had not been wiped or cleaned, there were photo's of cotton bud swabs taken from it. Had they been the people using this weapon their DNA/prints would have been on it.

When will you take off your blinkers and openly look at the possibility that they didn't commit these murders?

I have tried to keep an open mind to the possibility that they may have but it is blatantly obvious that they had no involvement.

[bamukloy]

Let them go now, it is plain as day that these two Burmese lads are just scapegoats, the sad thing is the real killers are still out there.

Agreed - with compensation !

I suspect those lads would be most happy to just quietly ride off into the sunset.

Now that they have the attention of the world's media< i would sue the arse off the Thai Government then go home and live like a KING.

So, what court are you gonna sue them in?

What Thai laws?

What Thai judge will be so sympathetic to the cause after they had their systems nose rubbed in the poo?

Unless you know of some kind of world court that has authority over Thailands law system, its all just fiction and wishful thinking

[ableguy]

He says the DNA does not match, and yet the police claim there was no DNA on the hoe ? So it seems to me a useless comment.how about DNA in the girls body ?

[Gweiloman]

Nothing proves their innocence. It's impossible to prove a negative. The whole system of justice in the majority of countries is based on this premise.

Nothing proves their innocence. It's impossible to prove a negative. The whole system of justice in the majority of countries is based on this premise.

Well lets hope not..

Justice is supposedly about proving guilt, not proving innocence.

While most of us here are seeking the truth and justice, there are some who wants the B2 to be guilty, regardless of whether they are or not. I wonder why?

[StealthEnergiser]

Police tried to manipulate Koh Tao witness, court told

U Oh confirmed he was the owner of the garden hoe, which is alleged to have been used as the murder weapon in the case,” Aung Myo Thant said.

“A police officer had earlier testified that the hoe was used to murder the victims, then the blood-stained tool was placed under a bag and discarded on the beach.”

But U Oh testified that the hoe was in the same place he left it the night before, the lawyer said.

https://www.dvb.no/news/police-tried-to-manipulate-koh-tao-witness-court-told/54664

[papa al]

Contrary to the claims of the defense lawyer, finding DNA on the hoe from two men who are not the defendants does not prove their innocence.

Nothing proves their innocence. It's impossible to prove a negative. The whole system of justice in the majority of countries is based on this premise.

On the contrary it is often quite easy to prove a negative.

For example, a solid alibi would be legal proof of innocence.

[catsanddogs]

Good piece from Khaosod:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1441971241&section=12&typecate=06

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

“We have told them to do their duty,” Nakhon said this afternoon.

Wonder if that will ever happen

"Nakhon said three more defense witnesses, all forensic institute experts, are due to take the stand when the trial continues 22 Sept".

Not a well-written article. Nakhon is not identified. Who is he? By inference, it appears Nakhon is a member of the defense team.

Also, if other (two?) men are ID'd to have DNA which matches the DNA found on the hoe, it doesn't for sure implicate the men who matched. One or more men may have handled the hoe before the murders. There would have to be additional corroborating evidence. Plus, until David's DNA is found on the hoe, it indicates the hoe was only used to harm Hannah.

defence lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat.

[Gweiloman]

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

You are having a laugh!

If you are to keep 2 people in chains and parade them to the world as murderers based on DNA evidence it is fairly important that their DNA matches that on the stated murder weapon.! The hoe was covered in blood in the 1st photo's released and had not been wiped or cleaned, there were photo's of cotton bud swabs taken from it. Had they been the people using this weapon their DNA/prints would have been on it.

When will you take off your blinkers and openly look at the possibility that they didn't commit these murders?

I have tried to keep an open mind to the possibility that they may have but it is blatantly obvious that they had no involvement.

When will you take off your blinkers and openly look at the possibility that they didn't commit these murders?

I think it should be obvious to most posters on there by now that the defenders do not have their blinkers on but are actively pursuing a more sinister agenda.

[catsanddogs]

Good piece from Khaosod:

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1441971241&section=12&typecate=06

"Nakhon said he’s requested the prosecuting attorney instruct police to find whose DNA traces were found on the garden hoe".

“We have told them to do their duty,” Nakhon said this afternoon.

Wonder if that will ever happen

"Nakhon said three more defense witnesses, all forensic institute experts, are due to take the stand when the trial continues 22 Sept".

Not a well-written article. Nakhon is not identified. Who is he? By inference, it appears Nakhon is a member of the defense team.

Also, if other (two?) men are ID'd to have DNA which matches the DNA found on the hoe, it doesn't for sure implicate the men who matched. One or more men may have handled the hoe before the murders. There would have to be additional corroborating evidence. Plus, until David's DNA is found on the hoe, it indicates the hoe was only used to harm Hannah.

You are forgiven for your grey moment Boomers.

[StealthEnergiser]

Court orders retesting of evidence in Koh Tao murder case

Police believe a garden hoe which came from the resort and was found leaning against a tree near the crime scene, was used to bludgeon both victims.

After arriving at the crime scene around 5.40am O admitted removing the hoe from next to the tree and taking it back to a vegetable garden inside the resort where he worked.

Around half an hour later he said he was approached by the resort’s boss and a policeman who told him to put on a pair of gloves and return it to the scene, which he did.

- See more at: http://www.mizzima.c...L.z6wn9MP5.dpuf

[StealthEnergiser]

Crime scene blunder stopped murder weapon DNA test

Another Burmese migrant worker, known as O, who worked at a local resort, told the second day of the murder trial, which is being held on the nearby island of Koh Samui, that he was first to stumble across the bodies. He said he owned the heavy hoe that police say was used to kill the Britons, and had taken it away from the scene.

“I saw my hoe [near the slain holidaymakers] and took it back to my vegetable garden,” he told the court.

The defence questioned how he had failed to notice blood on the hoe but he said it had been too dark.

http://www.thetimes....icle4493211.ece

[boomerangutang]

I dont remember the DNA on the hoe ever even being discussed. I thought the DNA was from the condom? IF Porntip could dispute that evidence then that would be something. This just seems like media hype.

The condom and the cig butt are non-issues. Beam yourself up to what's been happening. Even the glass is a non-issue. We didn't hear mention of glass being found at or near the crime until recently. The only significance of glass-used-as-weapon is it's proof the B2 were tortured, because they wouldn't have admitted to using glass if they weren't tortured. Reason? Because there was no glass, broken or whole, at the crime scene, and the first mention of glass was when the roti-seller (and/or an RTP'man) introduced the idea at the interrogation. Since there are so many issues and bits of evidence that do or could point to the real culprits, let's not get sidelined (and wasting time) with items which are unimportant to solving the crime.

[catsanddogs]

Crime scene blunder stopped murder weapon DNA test

Another Burmese migrant worker, known as O, who worked at a local resort, told the second day of the murder trial, which is being held on the nearby island of Koh Samui, that he was first to stumble across the bodies. He said he owned the heavy hoe that police say was used to kill the Britons, and had taken it away from the scene.

“I saw my hoe [near the slain holidaymakers] and took it back to my vegetable garden,” he told the court.

The defence questioned how he had failed to notice blood on the hoe but he said it had been too dark.

Police eventually found the tool hidden by rubbish bags in the garden of the resort where he worked.

http://www.thetimes....icle4493211.ece

Was this man totally thick in the head or what to move the hoe! Says he was the first to stumble across the bodies but I thought it was reported that the woman who first found them was out of the country and could not tesitfy?! Was he blind or was it too dark or was it both or neither? Jesus! Seems it would have been simpler to scapegoat this migrant worker than the B2.

[Dogmatix]

Apologies if this has been discussed already. I've just got back home from work & couldn't make it through all the posts.

I'm confused! Previously the police presented evidence that they found the B2's DNA on the hoe but today they testified they didn't?

In a 'normal' court this evidence would cast serious doubt on the DNA evidence from Hannah's body, especially with the sample being 'used up'. I don't think that there will be any evidence, in that respect, forthcoming from the UK police due to diplomatic reasons.

Dr Porntip stated that DNA would be found on the hoe if it was held for 15 seconds or longer. This is quite a long time (count it out) for a frenzied attack with 1-3 blows; I'd estimate closer to 5 seconds.

Remember that the hoe was supposedly used to murder both victims and their bodies were found several metres apart. I think two kills in less than 15 seconds would be difficult.

[catsanddogs]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ms Rojanasunand said she understood no forensic doctor had been present at the crime scene, and not enough pictures had been taken, from many differing angles, to be of use to a forensic investigation. She said if a forensic expert had been summoned, they would have been able to tell if the attacker was left or right handed, and even the approximate height of the attacker or attackers from the blood spatters created by the murder weapon.

They would also have been able to confirm the prosecution theory that Mr Miller and Ms Witheridge were making love on the beach.