VW in Thailand

[Toany]

The CEO walks away with a 26€ million pension. If people continue to benifit from cheating without any consequences. Nothing will change. He just said sorry and went off to enjoy his pension

[stevenl]

Ive noticed another Claim Discrepancy. Been retired here for nearly 6Years,.Had BM n Benz as Company rides,but they never did the KPL Claimed.. yet the 2 Civics have done as claimed from new. My Wife's new benz coupe doesnt do as claimed either so far..Just crossed my mind, not bothered really, just the Topic got me TINKING.

I think there is some confusion what was fiddled with and what effect it had. The issue found in the US is that the unhealthy NOx pollutant was artificially low during testing. On the road many times more NOx than allowed was measured. Performance and mileage was better on the road than during the test.

In Europe the situation is different. There CO2 is the gas they mostly check for. Although this in not unhealthy to humans there is a belief that it adds to global warming/ climate change. During testing manufacturers try to get the CO2 number as low as possible as many countries levy taxes based on this. As a result both CO2 and mileage during the test is better than on the road.

AFAIK in Europe for diesel engines it is the amount of fine dust that is tested, not 'mainly CO2'.

[Toany]

When the cars are modified to comply with the laws of the country they will have far worse fuel consumption and the car will also wear out quickly and have a worse performance. It has not been designed to run within the legal limits.

[Jitar]

Ive noticed another Claim Discrepancy. Been retired here for nearly 6Years,.Had BM n Benz as Company rides,but they never did the KPL Claimed.. yet the 2 Civics have done as claimed from new. My Wife's new benz coupe doesnt do as claimed either so far..Just crossed my mind, not bothered really, just the Topic got me TINKING.

I think there is some confusion what was fiddled with and what effect it had. The issue found in the US is that the unhealthy NOx pollutant was artificially low during testing. On the road many times more NOx than allowed was measured. Performance and mileage was better on the road than during the test.

In Europe the situation is different. There CO2 is the gas they mostly check for. Although this in not unhealthy to humans there is a belief that it adds to global warming/ climate change. During testing manufacturers try to get the CO2 number as low as possible as many countries levy taxes based on this. As a result both CO2 and mileage during the test is better than on the road.

AFAIK in Europe for diesel engines it is the amount of fine dust that is tested, not 'mainly CO2'.

EU and US standards both limit CO2, NOx, HC and particles. The US standards are lower for NOx.

US regs are tougher for Diesels because they generally make more NOx and particles but less CO2 and HC than petrol engines.

Most diesels complying with US regs use EGR and SCR to manage NOx and a DPF to control particles.

Occasionally a manufacturer comes up with a "clean" engine, said not to require some of the systems, E.G. recent VW's without SCR and Caterpillar ACERT truck engines with out EGR. In both cases, it appears the engines were only clean with a special ECU map for testing. The Caterpillar case was a few years ago and they ended up with a fine for evading the intent of the EPA test and a bunch of legal cases. VW will certainly get similar treatment + ?

There have been studies of real world NOx emissions from many brands of diesel cars compared to test standard results. The poor correlation initiated more tests that lead to the VW scandal. Changes are needed to the test standards to make the results more realistic and the test harder to cheat. The EU are proposing real world drive cycles with portable emissions testers rather than lab tests on rolling road dynos with theoretical speed and time cycles.

So far none of this has much effect in LOS because Thailand does not yet comply with the full version of Euro 4, little lone Euro 6. SCR and DPF are still options here in the LOS.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Jitar

[Ace of Pop]

Diesels should have been banned for pleasure motoring years ago.Its for Tractors, Generators and Fishin Boats not Grocery Getters. E85 should only be allowed in non commercials in new rides.

[VocalNeal]

Its for Tractors, Generators and Fishin Boats not Grocery Getters.

Ok for these then?

Edited September 25, 2015 by VocalNeal

[sandyf]

Seriously, has anyone with an ounce of sense ever believed these 65mpg 'claimed' manufacturers figures?

And please don't say "I purchased my car because they said it produced 1% less CO than it actually does so I have the right to compensation"

This drivel usually comes from people who are too bone idle to walk 50 Meters to the shops so take the car instead.

You are so right. We all know that tested figures are far from what is achieved on the road. Just look at consumption for instance. I don't know anybody opting for or against a car because of its CO2 emissions, unless it affects taxes....

Exactly, VW sales have been based on decades of reliability rather than any factsheet.

You take the vehicle in for testing and the mechanic adjusts the engine settings to get acceptable figures and issues the certificate. Anyone who has a mind to can take the vehicle in the next day and have the engine retuned for max performance, but I suppose everyone would be far to honest for anything like that.

Its the deceit that hurts and the danger is a knee jerk reaction spirals out of control. After all, those shouting the loudest are hardly leading lights in the greenhouse gas arena.

[VocalNeal]

^ This is a good point. How many of the 450-odd thousand of the VW's effected have been rechipped for performance? Up the fuel pump pressure etc. and off you go. Sure it is not according to Hoyle but lots of people especially the Audi A3 boys.

[IMHO]

So far none of this has much effect in LOS because Thailand does not yet comply with the full version of Euro 4, little lone Euro 6. SCR and DPF are still options here in the LOS.

You're right.

But there is a potential impact for TH - the new Thai laws the come into effect this December require UN R83 (emissions) and UN R101 (FE) testing standards - as what is used in EU right now - so it's probably fair to assume that any replacement for those testing cycles as a result of this scandal would also be adopted here.

Edited September 25, 2015 by IMHO

[WarpSpeed]

Most US manufacturers are not as sold on the diesels as the euro's and I guess maybe it's because they can't get the artificial numbers in the real world that the Germans have been fudging all along and have been scratching their heads how to do it.

The US governments don't want high mileage cars because they collect too much money from gasoline tax. Sure you can get 65mpg out of a real gallon with a small diesel car.

On the pollution front, people say they are concerned about but don't base purchasing decision on. Are there any stats on how much more the 450-odd thousand vehicles effected have added to the pollution load, say , compared to all the other millions of cars driving around. This is another Toyota saga, lets find a reason to bash a non-US successful company.

The EPA has to take some responsibility for this for having a stupid static predictable test. Smokey Yunick would be proud of the VW engineers for getting their cars past such a childishly simple test.

I read that even big rig trucks are using similar software and it changes the parameters as soon as it detects long distance, continuous speed mode.

Then there is the article where in the state of Victoria, known for its use of brown coal, that a Tesla is more polluting than a small diesel car.

Also it is only one engine in the VW line-up.

Sadly this may effect VW going into F1, as F1 needs more guys that think the way the VW engineers do.

When the cars are modified to comply with the laws of the country they will have far worse fuel consumption and the car will also wear out quickly and have a worse performance. It has not been designed to run within the legal limits.

This Neal, they can not get 65m to the gallon without fudging the numbers that makes them get that mileage and still provide the advertised performance, that's the crux of the issue.

I agree with the F1 deal, the timing couldn't be worse for that, may likely be the death knell for Redbull the way they're talking as well since they will not have an engine and are also petitioning F1 for rules changes, though I think they seem to have stumbled on Mercedes biggest trick with the tire pressures I'm so constantly making note of, seems such small thing but it is actually quite a big item when the sweet spot is found, this weekend will tell the tale a bit better. I'm really disappointed with that too as I was really looking forward to seeing them in F1. Personally I feel like they may need to do some heavy PR after this so it may not be a lost cause in the end if they use F1 for brand rebuilding.

[Cook my sock]

How are VW going to deal with recalls in Thailand? Just out of interest.

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[Don Mega]

How are VW going to deal with recalls in Thailand? Just out of interest.

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What recalls in Thailand ?