webfact Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Simulation of accident that killed ChuwongTHE NATION File PhotoBANGKOK: -- THE CRIME Suppression Division (CSD) will today simulate the accident that killed construction tycoon Chuwong Saetang.CSD deputy chief Pol Colonel Prasert Pattanadee stated yesterday that to investigate the mysterious death of Chuwong in the accident, the investigation team had met with automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok to discuss about the car and the possible cause of the accident in order to simulate the accident.The case came to public attention, as soon after the death of Chuwong in the car driven by former deputy commerce minister Pol Lt-Colonel Banyin Tangpakorn, more than Bt220 million worth of shares owned by him changed hands.The simulation reportedly will take place at the actual scene of the accident scene at Charoem Phra Kiat-Ratchakan-Rama IX Road in Bangkok's Suan Luang district. A figure, of the same physical size as Chuwong, will be used for the simulation as well. The CSD ordered Banyin to surrender the car that he had driven on that day to the police by today but he claimed the car was still under repair.However, Prasert said there is no need to use exactly the same car to perform the simulation. Instead, they could use another car of the same model and size.Meanwhile, Udomsuk police have finished questioning some of the witnesses and they will summon all other related witnesses before seeking more information from Banyin.Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Simulation-of-accident-that-killed-Chuwong-30269673.html -- The Nation 2015-09-28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehowden Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Same tree ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsujin Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 To avoid any questions, or shadows of doubt, it needs to be exactly the same make and model of car. I would have thought it only common sense when testing whether you can survive an impact at xxx angle, at xxx speed etc, that you use the vehicle you actually need the data on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worgeordie Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 A figure,of the same physical size of Chuwong,will be used for the simulation , this figure,a blow up doll,test dummy,or a real person ?,what happens if they use a real person and he is killed ! regards Worgeordie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezzra Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 A figure,of the same physical size of Chuwong,will be used for the simulation , this figure,a blow up doll,test dummy,or a real person ?,what happens if they use a real person and he is killed ! regards Worgeordie a simulations of putting spaces between words will go very farand make it easy to read... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok KMUTNB is a reputable University and quite capable of providing these experts. Do you think they should be brought in from the Toyota team in Japan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldiablo Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 A figure,of the same physical size of Chuwong,will be used for the simulation , this figure,a blow up doll,test dummy,or a real person ?,what happens if they use a real person and he is killed ! regards Worgeordie I suppose they are quite confident that if they use a real person they wouldn't be killed. Hell, based on the information I have read abouy this case so far I would kindly volunteer myself for the reenactment know full well I would come out without a single scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 They are going to do this 'test' at the actual accident scene, using a real car? Have they not heard of computer simulations? Likely such a computer simulation may not exist in Thailand, but I would think that Toyota in Japan could do it. But no, Thais can handle it, no need for outside help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok KMUTNB is a reputable University and quite capable of providing these experts.Do you think they should be brought in from the Toyota team in Japan? Well yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toybits Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 It was...., it was....., it was..... aeksideental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clockman Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 A figure,of the same physical size of Chuwong,will be used for the simulation , this figure,a blow up doll,test dummy,or a real person ?,what happens if they use a real person and he is killed ! regards Worgeordie Plenty of inactive posts, they could use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphod reborn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok KMUTNB is a reputable University and quite capable of providing these experts. Do you think they should be brought in from the Toyota team in Japan? Yes, KMUTNB is a good university. No, it produces no automotive experts. Having worked for several automobile manufacturers for products liability litigation, I interacted frequently with real automobile experts - specifically, crashworthiness and accident investigation experts. How does a country which doesn't have a clue about AASHTO or NHTSA standards produce automotive experts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beguiled Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 They are going to do this 'test' at the actual accident scene, using a real car? Have they not heard of computer simulations? Likely such a computer simulation may not exist in Thailand, but I would think that Toyota in Japan could do it. But no, Thais can handle it, no need for outside help. Many countries have traffic investigation teams and an accident similar to this would have been measured, calculated and a result produced in a matter of weeks. Yes computer simulations would solve this riddle. Some out there in TV land may not be aware that most vehicle manufactures now use computer modeling and very few cars need to be or are crash tested. Toyota (Lexus division), if asked, could easily have produce results for the Land Cruiser V8/Lexus LX430 simulated crash tests or modeled one with the same input from this Thai accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmj Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok KMUTNB is a reputable University and quite capable of providing these experts.Do you think they should be brought in from the Toyota team in Japan? They should use computer modelling like every other competent crash investigation team, sorry as I type it I see the problem with my comment 'competent' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
springheeled jack Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 another excuse by banying the car is still under repair how long has he had it in for repair? another knock back for him they are going to use the same model for a simulation of the accident how oft the plans of man do go awry . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 automobile experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok KMUTNB is a reputable University and quite capable of providing these experts. Do you think they should be brought in from the Toyota team in Japan? Yes, KMUTNB is a good university. No, it produces no automotive experts. Having worked for several automobile manufacturers for products liability litigation, I interacted frequently with real automobile experts - specifically, crashworthiness and accident investigation experts. How does a country which doesn't have a clue about AASHTO or NHTSA standards produce automotive experts? As usual, the point will be to get information, which will be considered carefully before being revealed. All angles have to be weighed up before deciding what to actually release for public consumption. Foreign experts wouldn't understand this little bit of Thainess so are not therefore required. Besides, they might simply want to reveal the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehowden Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 "They are going to do this 'test' at the actual accident scene, using a real car? Have they not heard of computer simulations? Likely such a computer simulation may not exist in Thailand, but I would think that Toyota in Japan could do it. But no, Thais can handle it, no need for outside help." Computer simulation have blue gloves same as 'expert" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si Thea01 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) I cannot believe this lot. Back home (Oz), this vehicle would have been seized by police, immediately after the crash for forensics and accident reconstruction long before this. The police are polite but the vehicle goes whether the registered owner consents or not, there is no request or refusal, it is just seized. It's about time that these police, if you can call them that, learnt about crash investigation, reconstruction and forensics and how they play a vital role in establishing what occurred, when and how it occurred and the conclusion that can be reached when combining all results and marrying it to the evidence provided by the driver. However, given what has been occurring it is evident these officers have no idea. With crash investigation, mechanical examination, forensics tests and reconstruction taking time, sometimes weeks or even months, then these boffins should be ashamed of themselves for not acting like police or even having knowledge of what is required. I'm an ex-cop and do not like criticising other cops but when I read about what has been occurring I can see why so many others are so critical of the RTP. I know there are many good cops, who do a good job but we hardly hear about them, we only read about the inept and sometime criminal goings on of those who should never be called police let alone don the uniform. As a qualified crash investigator, I can say the I have dealt with matters where passengers have been fatally injured where the vehicle impacted with a solid object at an impact speed of fifty kilometres per hour or less and tests, especially in the States shows that this occurs in around fifty one percent of crashes. Looking at the vehicle, given it is the one in the alleged crash, concern would have to be expressed as to the genuineness of the incident, in particular, when noting the severity of the injuries sustained by the victim, even if he wasn't wearing a seat belt. To me it sounds suss, looks suss, therefore is suss. Edited September 28, 2015 by Si Thea01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acharn Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 They are going to do this 'test' at the actual accident scene, using a real car? Have they not heard of computer simulations? Likely such a computer simulation may not exist in Thailand, but I would think that Toyota in Japan could do it. But no, Thais can handle it, no need for outside help. There certainly are competent software developers/programmers in Thailand who could write a simulation program for this. It wouldn't be necessary to already have such a program, although I would suppose Toyota's engineering department does. The first source code I had for an 8080-based debugger was published in Thailand and later translated to English (well, it was a small book that was almost all written in 8080 assembly language, so there wasn't much Thai to translate). That was back about 1978, so Thais have been involved in computers for a long time. It's not clear from the story if they mean "simulation" or "reenactment." The story really doesn't tell us what they mean to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webfact Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 Police conduct simulation of Chuwong's crashAngsuma SridokkhamThe Nation BANGKOK: -- CRIME Suppression Division investigators and forensic police yesterday conducted a crash simulation in response to suspicions over the death of construction tycoon Chuwong Saetang in a road accident in June.Experts from King Mongkut's University of Technology North Bangkok attended the simulation.At Bangkok's Novotel Bangna Hotel yesterday morning, police placed a crash dummy, reportedly the same size of Chuwong, in the front seat of a Lexus sedan.They set up 15 cameras inside and outside the car to record the simulation while paper sheets and sensors were placed inside the vehicle to determine the impact points on the dummy.The results of the simulation will be used to compare with results of Chuwong's autopsy and photos taken of his body at Sirindhorn Hospital.Police set the Lexus's suspension, brake condition and tyre pressure as close as possible to the car involved in the accident.The crash simulation was conducted at the scene of the accident between Soi Chalerm Phrai Kiat 48 and 50 in the Dokmai sub-district of Prawet district.The car involved in the accident was driven by former deputy commerce minister Pol Lt-Colonel Banyin Tangpakorn.Soon after the crash it emerged that more than Bt220 million in shares owned by Chuwong, who was 50 at the time of his death, had changed hands.Before the crash simulation was conducted, Banyin's son arrived to observe it.He told reporters that his father was in another province and that he had not instructed him to witness the simulation.He said he would record a video of it as evidence and he was not worried because he believed the simulation could not exactly duplicate the real event, such as the how the men were seated in the car and the road condition at the time of the accident.The road was dry when the accident occurred but wet yesterday due to rain in the early morning.The simulation started at 12.50pm in front of a large media contingent.About an hour later, Chuwong's son Kan Saetang and the lawyer Anek Khamchum arrived at the scene and observed the event quietly. They did not ask police questions.Asked what the family would do if police ruled Chuwong's death an accident, Anek said he didn't want to speculate and that everything hinged on evidence.He said the family was pleased arrest warrants had been issued as a result of share-transfer investigation and it was confident the truth would come out.Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Police-conduct-simulation-of-Chuwongs-crash-30269748.html-- The Nation 2015-09-29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The dog & pony show was probably put in place because : they never thought to ask Toyota to do a computer simulation, the usual excuse of not needing help from outsiders, an elaborate stunt to cover up what really happened, mismanagement of vital evidence at the scene of the original accident. Feel free to add to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deckape Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 They do love a good show here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harada Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So did the crash test dummy attempt to brace himself as would someone sitting in the passenger seat upon seeing an accident about to happen, that is of course if he was conscious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePai Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 He's dead, that's sad, but get over it and move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamnutsak Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Did they "accidentally" whack the crash-test dummy with a seven iron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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