No thaw in Thai-US relations without full democracy

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
No thaw in Thai-US relations without full democracy
The Nation

With elections postponed again and our freedoms curtailed, let's not be fooled by a photo of Obama shaking Prayut's hand

BANGKOK: -- It's to be hoped that Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha's government will not fall for its own propaganda and begin to actually believe that Thailand's relations with the United States have improved since the coup that brought it to power.

Cooperative news media have helped the government convince some of the public that Washington has at last come to terms with the military-installed regime, offering by way of "evidence" photographs of Prayut being greeted by President Barack Obama at last week's United Nations General Assembly in New York. The pictures, widely shared on the social media, were an attempt to show that the Thai general who staged the coup against an elected civilian government is now welcome in the US.

In fact relations between Thailand and the US chilled because of the May 22, 2014, coup and have never come close to normalising since. Washington is adamant that democracy must be restored here quickly and that Thailand must begin paying greater heed to international standards in human rights.

The Obama administration has made it clear since the coup that the US wants peace and democracy in Thailand before it agrees to resume its long-term "partnership" with Bangkok. The coup itself and repressive measures imposed by the Prayut regime have made it impossible for relations to thaw.

In the meantime, in accordance with American law governing aid to nations where democracy and rights are undermined, the US suspended more than $4.7 million in security-related assistance to Thailand after the coup and scaled down joint military exercises.

Hard work behind the scenes by officials at the Thai Foreign Ministry and the US State Department has nevertheless enabled the two countries to maintain a semblance of the old status quo, even as Thai nationalists spread anti-American sentiment and press for stronger links to Beijing. At the moment, senior Foreign Ministry officials are hoping that new US Ambassador Glyn Davies will demonstrate his deep understanding of the Thai situation and recognise anew the importance of America resolving its differences with what had been its foremost ally in Southeast Asia.

Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai meeting US Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly was a positive sign, suggesting that Washington might soon be willing to expand cooperation with Thailand in matters of mutual interest. However, the American

was careful not to give any indication that Washington has changed its

view on the military government.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Sek Wannamethee has said that, for the benefit of our relationship, the Cobra Gold joint military exercises will take place as per normal next year, since the US recognises that Thailand has made progress in combating the trafficking of migrants in the region.

Prayut's government should not misinterpret such modestly upbeat signals as a form of international blessing. As long as democracy remains subdued here and rights take a back seat to military control, Washington cannot reconsider its position. The White House, Congress and the Senate are legally bound to foster global democracy and to punish miscreant behaviour.

Ambassador Davies has already made a good impression among the powers-that-be here and any hope resting on his influence is not misplaced, but Thais must bear in mind that he works for the US administration, not our military government.

If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/No-thaw-in-Thai-US-relations-without-full-democrac-30270249.html


-- The Nation 2015-10-06

[heybruce]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

[Snig27]

Pretty tough editorial from the usually compliant Nation. Perhaps a mix of an economy in the toilet and the junta managing to take something as simple as a handshake and fumbling to make themselves look utterly absurd yet again hasn't gone down too well with some people.

[BritTim]

While the US professes a strong commitment to democracy and human rights, it has always been willing to work with repressive regimes when dictated by geopolitical or economic considerations. The trouble Thailand has, the China card notwithstanding, is that the US has no compelling reason to support the Prayuth regime. If Thailand became vehemently anti-American (which will not happen) the economic and political costs would not be that great. Meanwhile, the US would lose in the wider diplomatic arena if seen to support another military dictatorship.

[khunsiam]

notice the empty seats during Prayuths' speech at the UN

[Thian]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

[craigt3365]

notice the empty seats during Prayuths' speech at the UN

Wow! Never seen that one before.

[craigt3365]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

No democracy is perfect. But it's better than the alternatives. The US knows full well what democracy is and what's going on here.

As far as relations improving, there are laws the US has to abide by when a coup happens. No choice but to abide by them. The EU is doing the same thing.

[chainarong]

notice the empty seats during Prayuths' speech at the UN

Noted

[robblok]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

No democracy is perfect. But it's better than the alternatives. The US knows full well what democracy is and what's going on here.

As far as relations improving, there are laws the US has to abide by when a coup happens. No choice but to abide by them. The EU is doing the same thing.

I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before. The shootings and bombings that were not solved until the army stepped in and shown it were the red shirts who were the lap dogs of the government. A government with a extremely violent wing that cheered over deaths of opponents on stage with high government representatives there.

That does not sound good at all, on the other hand I don't like how the current government wants a single internet gateway and some other stupid plans. But so far this government is doing something else instead of bringing a convicted criminal back and in doing so making violence come back to Thailand (the amnesty is what set it all off) So one can see the priorities of the PTP.

Anyway for now I prefer the junta.. if the make many more stupid plans I might dislike them as much as the PTP. For now they are the least of 2 evils.

Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing.

[chainarong]

The status quo must be maintained, the philosophy of western Democratic style governments are elected Governments, not the upshot Junta's who in Thailand seem to come and go, prove nothing, do nothing , except place the economy under stress and then show how benevolent they can be by returning back to Democracy , not because they want to but they know full well the ramifications if they don't , the constitution should be such that this can never happen , placing the military six rungs below nothing ,there was the unfortunate muddle of the PTP and Suthep to over come, which should be able to be done under the constitution ,after all Thailand/Siam has been around for some time what have you been doing , until the Thai people put the country first and say no to this kind of Thuggery, it will continue as entertainment for the Hi So and of course make well off ex Generals and military commanders more well off.

[Thaimike370]

I can understand this, as America is sadly lacking in full democracy.

[Oziex1]

One of the very awkward truths of this country is that there is a friction that needs to be sorted and sadly history shows these tensions are ultimately resolved with blood and fire.

I would like to believe there is a peaceful and calm solution to this and I personally would not want a return to the bloodshed of recent and past clashes.

Will the poor take on the rich in a conflict to change the status quo, could it happen in Thailand without the manipulation of the self interested.

Whatever some thing has to change and the changes so desperately needed are unlikely to be found in the military rule or in some pseudo democracy with pay for vote elections.

[wandasloan]

notice the empty seats during Prayuths' speech at the UN

Wow! Never seen that one before.

Okay, but it was pretty hard for you not to. That exact photo was printed in newspapers, shown on TV, and posted for free re-use on government websites including the prime minister's (thaigov.go.th) and the foreign ministry's. It was also distributed (from New York) by at least one international news agency, maybe more.

There were other photos in a set of photos taken from various angles, with various lens settings during the Prayut speech,- including one quite close up. The same sets, with the same angles, were taken of every national leader who spoke, I believe - standard UN coverage, much of it by UN staff and passed along to international news agencies and the governments concerned.

Almost all speeches at the UNGA opening for the past 69 years (not counting the exciting first one) have been as scintillating, as persuasive, as emotional as Prayut's, and read in near-monotone, word-for-word from the distributed-in-advance texts, in a seldom-used language as Prayut's last week. The text and full audio and full video of every are available just in case something happens. So almost all speeches are attended as well as Prayut's and have been since 1946. It's not like the whole world was waiting for him to confirm that he thinks the Sufficiency Economy is good, even though his government doesn't use if and doesn't intend to.

[deckape]

No thaw in Thai-US relations without full democracy

Duh...

[Orac]

Pretty tough editorial from the usually compliant Nation. Perhaps a mix of an economy in the toilet and the junta managing to take something as simple as a handshake and fumbling to make themselves look utterly absurd yet again hasn't gone down too well with some people.

Seems The Nation has developed a case of schizophrenia.

"Cooperative news media have helped the government convince some of the public that Washington has at last come to terms with the military-installed regime, offering by way of "evidence" photographs of Prayut being greeted by President Barack Obama at last week's United Nations General Assembly in New York. "

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Prayut-pledges-Thais-to-UN-boost-in-peacekeeping-w-30269783.html

[yellowboat]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

Yes, it is.

The "selling of votes" is laughable. The yellows are afraid to campaign in the north and east. They have forsaken those people for decades, and in turn get little love from them Even if vote buying is rampant, it is a matter of policing. You do not hold back an entire country because you have a crappy police force.

If you wish to trade freedom for short term security, you deserve neither. (Benjamin Franklin)

[MZurf]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

No democracy is perfect. But it's better than the alternatives. The US knows full well what democracy is and what's going on here.

As far as relations improving, there are laws the US has to abide by when a coup happens. No choice but to abide by them. The EU is doing the same thing.

I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before. The shootings and bombings that were not solved until the army stepped in and shown it were the red shirts who were the lap dogs of the government. A government with a extremely violent wing that cheered over deaths of opponents on stage with high government representatives there.

That does not sound good at all, on the other hand I don't like how the current government wants a single internet gateway and some other stupid plans. But so far this government is doing something else instead of bringing a convicted criminal back and in doing so making violence come back to Thailand (the amnesty is what set it all off) So one can see the priorities of the PTP.

Anyway for now I prefer the junta.. if the make many more stupid plans I might dislike them as much as the PTP. For now they are the least of 2 evils.

Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing.

"I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before."

So, instead of letting democracy evolve in Thailand you would rather have perpetual military rule? How convenient for the elite that you and many others feel that way. But I'm sure that deep down they really want a democratic Thailand.

BTW, if the previous government were full of crooks what about the current government? Oh, that's right, I forgot. We're not allowed to ask!

"Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing"

So the current bunch of dimwits in charge "play by the rules"? What rules are you referring to? Don't have an armed violent wing? What do you call an army??

[craigt3365]

I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before. The shootings and bombings that were not solved until the army stepped in and shown it were the red shirts who were the lap dogs of the government. A government with a extremely violent wing that cheered over deaths of opponents on stage with high government representatives there.

That does not sound good at all, on the other hand I don't like how the current government wants a single internet gateway and some other stupid plans. But so far this government is doing something else instead of bringing a convicted criminal back and in doing so making violence come back to Thailand (the amnesty is what set it all off) So one can see the priorities of the PTP.

Anyway for now I prefer the junta.. if the make many more stupid plans I might dislike them as much as the PTP. For now they are the least of 2 evils.

Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing.

LOL. Understood! Reminds me of some previous US presidential elections. No good choices!

Not sure about Obama, as he's got a lot on his plate, but I'm sure people in power know exactly what's been going on here in Thailand with regards to democracy. It's been widely reported in a variety of media sites also! LOL

[phrisco17]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

I second!

[gandalf12]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

I dont recall the US stating they would accept that. They said democracy, the issues you have mentioned are the opposite to the actions of a democratic society. Resolving these issues is the job of the people in power not the US

[Lopchan]

While the US professes a strong commitment to democracy and human rights, it has always been willing to work with repressive regimes when dictated by geopolitical or economic considerations. The trouble Thailand has, the China card notwithstanding, is that the US has no compelling reason to support the Prayuth regime. If Thailand became vehemently anti-American (which will not happen) the economic and political costs would not be that great. Meanwhile, the US would lose in the wider diplomatic arena if seen to support another military dictatorship.

Excellent post!

[Hawk]

This government only needs China.

[kblaze]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

If they hold elections...who would be bombing and shooting? The PDRC?

And LOL @ "The corruption will continue" - Oh so its been on pause since the coup? Take off your blinders.

[mark131v]

notice the empty seats during Prayuths' speech at the UN

Now that really does tell its own story, looks like most people decided there were more important things to do than listen to some hypocritical spiel from the good general, wonder if this will be published in the Nation and the other Thai press...?

[kblaze]

I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before. The shootings and bombings that were not solved until the army stepped in and shown it were the red shirts who were the lap dogs of the government. A government with a extremely violent wing that cheered over deaths of opponents on stage with high government representatives there.

That does not sound good at all, on the other hand I don't like how the current government wants a single internet gateway and some other stupid plans. But so far this government is doing something else instead of bringing a convicted criminal back and in doing so making violence come back to Thailand (the amnesty is what set it all off) So one can see the priorities of the PTP.

Anyway for now I prefer the junta.. if the make many more stupid plans I might dislike them as much as the PTP. For now they are the least of 2 evils.

Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing.

Your view is that of someone who cares only for himself. As long as you are comfortable, eh Robb?

Nevermind the disenfranchisement of the majority of the country.

I despise Thaksin and his ilk, but if they are who the majority of the country wants running the show, then so be it.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety "

[jesimps]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

If it's the choice of the people, then yes it is democratic. It's then up to the opposing parties to get themselves voted in and the offending govt voted out. It isn't democratic to say "In my opinion this govt is no good therefore I'm going to assume power by threat of force".

By the way, the bombings and shootings only occurred because it was instigated by the violent protests by the Suthep's mob with the backing of the military and the rich and powerful. THAT is not democracy.

[robblok]

No democracy is perfect. But it's better than the alternatives. The US knows full well what democracy is and what's going on here.

As far as relations improving, there are laws the US has to abide by when a coup happens. No choice but to abide by them. The EU is doing the same thing.

I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before. The shootings and bombings that were not solved until the army stepped in and shown it were the red shirts who were the lap dogs of the government. A government with a extremely violent wing that cheered over deaths of opponents on stage with high government representatives there.

That does not sound good at all, on the other hand I don't like how the current government wants a single internet gateway and some other stupid plans. But so far this government is doing something else instead of bringing a convicted criminal back and in doing so making violence come back to Thailand (the amnesty is what set it all off) So one can see the priorities of the PTP.

Anyway for now I prefer the junta.. if the make many more stupid plans I might dislike them as much as the PTP. For now they are the least of 2 evils.

Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing.

"I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before."

So, instead of letting democracy evolve in Thailand you would rather have perpetual military rule? How convenient for the elite that you and many others feel that way. But I'm sure that deep down they really want a democratic Thailand.

BTW, if the previous government were full of crooks what about the current government? Oh, that's right, I forgot. We're not allowed to ask!

"Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing"

So the current bunch of dimwits in charge "play by the rules"? What rules are you referring to? Don't have an armed violent wing? What do you call an army??

This is part of the evolution of democracy, a minor setback and who knows a strong constitution might help keeping the crooks in place.

I prefer the military over the crooks we had before, but I would much more prefer a good democratic government, but I just don't see that happening any time soon.

No the current dimwits are not perfect either but you can't call the previous government a democracy either with a violent wing that attack their opponents (judges and so on). Then the so called democratic government lets other people vote for them (illegal) bullies whiseblowers over the rice program, tries to get a convicted criminal back, and is lead by proxy by that same criminal. Sounds all democratic to me.

An army is a legit violent wing and the army does not kill and bomb judges and political opponents. Shame on you calling the previous mob democratic. The current one is not democratic but the previous were not either.. voting alone does not mean its democratic.

For now the army is the lesser of two evils (meaning I don't think they are perfect and dislike many of their plans).

[robblok]

I prefer this safe and undemocratic government over the crooks that were here before. The shootings and bombings that were not solved until the army stepped in and shown it were the red shirts who were the lap dogs of the government. A government with a extremely violent wing that cheered over deaths of opponents on stage with high government representatives there.

That does not sound good at all, on the other hand I don't like how the current government wants a single internet gateway and some other stupid plans. But so far this government is doing something else instead of bringing a convicted criminal back and in doing so making violence come back to Thailand (the amnesty is what set it all off) So one can see the priorities of the PTP.

Anyway for now I prefer the junta.. if the make many more stupid plans I might dislike them as much as the PTP. For now they are the least of 2 evils.

Its a shame that people like Obama can't see that there was no real democracy before, because in a real democracy governments play by the rules and don't have an armed violent wing.

Your view is that of someone who cares only for himself. As long as you are comfortable, eh Robb?

Nevermind the disenfranchisement of the majority of the country.

I despise Thaksin and his ilk, but if they are who the majority of the country wants running the show, then so be it.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety "

Yes I care for my own safety, I don't like red terrorists in BKK. Sorry maybe you would like them in your location. You sound selfish too not caring about loss of life and the problems of BKK because of those red terrorists.

But hey they were voted no matter that they protect their armed violent wing and even support them. Its a perfectly normal democracy where the government protects their armed wing from investigation (the army stepped in and the red connection was shown before there were no arrests)

[robblok]

"If the Prayut regime wants to improve relations with the US, there is only one way: restore democracy soon. As long as elections continue to be postponed and freedom of expression and assembly remain restricted, the US is correct to maintain pressure while keeping its distance."

Nothing to add, I can't improve upon the above.

If they hold elections, the bombings, shootings, demonstrations will start again in BKK.

The corruption will continue and many folks will sell their vote for 500 baht.

Is that what the US call "democratic"? Then they should read the dictionary first.

If it's the choice of the people, then yes it is democratic. It's then up to the opposing parties to get themselves voted in and the offending govt voted out. It isn't democratic to say "In my opinion this govt is no good therefore I'm going to assume power by threat of force".

By the way, the bombings and shootings only occurred because it was instigated by the violent protests by the Suthep's mob with the backing of the military and the rich and powerful. THAT is not democracy.

Democracy is not only voting, its playing by democratic rules too. That means no armed violent wing, no voting for other people (and denying it even when its caught on tape), means no secret votes after having send the opposition away. Half a democracy is no democracy.