Non B VISA and work permit with a UK criminal record

[WalesVISA]

Hi guys,

I am looking for some information with regards to obtaining a Non B VISA for a person with a UK criminal record. I have recently started working as a kindergarten teacher in Bangkok, however in order for me to get a working VISA the school has told me that all UK nationals require an ICPC (International Child Protection Certificate).

I made a few mistakes in my early 20's and I have the following convictions:

Assault on a Police Officer (February 2011) - 9 months probation

Assault (May 2011) - Caution

Possession of a controlled substance - 0.25 grams of the "legal high" mephedrone (September 2012) - Conditional discharge

Does anybody know whether this will automatically disqualify me from obtaining said VISA? Or would the decision rest with the school on whether they continue to employ me or not? Since my troublesome early 20's I have turned my life around somewhat, obtaining a 1st class degree in Criminology and Criminal Justice earlier this year. Does anybody know whether this and other personal circumstances would be taken into account?

Thanks in advance

Rhys

[Loaded]

There are embassies and consulates that don't require a police check. However, Laos never insisted until recently despite it being listed as a requirement on the website for many years. If it is a requirement, they may accept just a Thai police clearance.

I just looked at their website to confirm but I clicked on 'English' and it displays Thai; I clicked on Thai language and it also shows Thai.

It's up to the embassy staff on the day you apply whether they will refuse your visa application. Nobody on this board can answer that question definitively for you.

Doesn't the rehabilitation of offenders act allow for convictions to be deleted from your police record after a certain amount of time? Check this out as the convictions may already be deleted from your criminal history.

However, if I were considering employing you and I discovered you had assaulted the police and had a history of drug use/possession, I wouldn't take a risk.

[oncearugge]

The ICPC Certificate contains a person’s complete conviction history as recorded on UK police records, including ‘spent’ and ’unspent’ convictions. Additionally, the certificate contains foreign criminal history information where such information has been disclosed to the UK.

I would imagine the record you describe would prevent you working with children and may also prevent the issue of a visa and work permit.

"- Police certificate verifying that applicant has no criminal record or equivalents or letter issued by authorised agencies in applicant’s country." *

-* Ref

Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[aarontendo]

Is this a wind-up?

[Mencken]

Hopefully a troll but not surprised if he's not.

And this board will mock all calling for degrees and standards...

[gerryBScot]

Whatever happens to you as you get caught up in the randomness of the bureaucracy, don't get down hearted if you encounter rejection at this juncture. There are many possibilities ahead. For instance you might get a non-B only for the Teachers Council to reject you for licensing.

If you like teaching from your limited exposure to it, you are young enough to return to the UK and return to study full time for certification and then work for formal registration and Qualified Teacher Status, 'QTS'. I do not believe your criminal convictions represent an all time bar on you being a teacher.

Probation officers and tutors from your criminology course should be able to couch for your rehabilitation. Doing this will take time but may also take you past the threshold of your convictions being 'spent', if they ever can be in relation to education and working with young people. You should investigate this particular point.

If you have a certificate and QTS then you have a ticket to go and a whole range of well paid jobs teaching in international schools is open to you and the fact that you have been allowed to train and work in your home country after conviction should be ample proof of your rehabilitation.

Just some food for thought.

[lostinisaan]

You might experience it vice versa pretty soon. A violent wife, or gf, maybe into some red pills and cards.

Then you might change your mind what you did to others. This is not a conviction that you are, or were a criminal, we're all young and stupid. Here's my 5 baht to it.:

I got caught with two friends 1976 with a joint when I was 16. It wasn't considered a crime and I had no idea that somebody would even dig that out.

There're various checks they can do. If they're asking the criminal police, they'll find out what you did when you're a youngster. Whatever you did when you're young will never disappear from the cop's' computer system.

I applied for a job at a school 17 years later, got the job, already had a signed contract, making good money and working for the government and seemed to be perfect and fine.It was maybe a little bit too perfect?

But then the incredible happened.::

Three days before my first day at school, I received a phone call from the HRM of my city, with whom I grew up and we're classmates at primary,high school and then at university, to immediately come to a meeting with all the Town Council guys within 30 minutes. So I "rushed to the scene..."

After an hour, they decided to give the position to a less qualified person, who'd informed them about my "past." The guy's somehow related to my twin brother's wife and I once told him over a glass of wine what happened many moons ago.

I really wish you best of luck, but please make sure that you visit them and explain the situation.

Take my " criminal past" as an example and listen to Gerry's advice.

Edited October 17, 2015 by lostinisaan

[oncearugge]

Whatever happens to you as you get caught up in the randomness of the bureaucracy, don't get down hearted if you encounter rejection at this juncture. There are many possibilities ahead. For instance you might get a non-B only for the Teachers Council to reject you for licensing.

If you like teaching from your limited exposure to it, you are young enough to return to the UK and return to study full time for certification and then work for formal registration and Qualified Teacher Status, 'QTS'. I do not believe your criminal convictions represent an all time bar on you being a teacher.

Probation officers and tutors from your criminology course should be able to couch for your rehabilitation. Doing this will take time but may also take you past the threshold of your convictions being 'spent', if they ever can be in relation to education and working with young people. You should investigate this particular point.

If you have a certificate and QTS then you have a ticket to go and a whole range of well paid jobs teaching in international schools is open to you and the fact that you have been allowed to train and work in your home country after conviction should be ample proof of your rehabilitation.

Just some food for thought.

Whatever happens to you as you get caught up in the randomness of the bureaucracy, don't get down hearted if you encounter rejection at this juncture. There are many possibilities ahead. For instance you might get a non-B only for the Teachers Council to reject you for licensing.

If you like teaching from your limited exposure to it, you are young enough to return to the UK and return to study full time for certification and then work for formal registration and Qualified Teacher Status, 'QTS'. I do not believe your criminal convictions represent an all time bar on you being a teacher.

Probation officers and tutors from your criminology course should be able to couch for your rehabilitation. Doing this will take time but may also take you past the threshold of your convictions being 'spent', if they ever can be in relation to education and working with young people. You should investigate this particular point.

If you have a certificate and QTS then you have a ticket to go and a whole range of well paid jobs teaching in international schools is open to you and the fact that you have been allowed to train and work in your home country after conviction should be ample proof of your rehabilitation.

Just some food for thought.

The content of a ICPC (International Child Protection Certificate) can never be changed. There are no "spent " convictions which can be conveniently forgotten.

Entry to teacher training in the UK is also dependent on full disclosure of all past criminal convictions.

Attaining QTS status with a record related to violence and involvement with illegal drugs would IMHO be virtually impossible.

[bigt3116]

"Assault on a Police Officer (February 2011) - 9 months probation

Assault (May 2011) - Caution

Possession of a controlled substance - 0.25 grams of the "legal high" mephedrone (September 2012) - Conditional discharge"

You committed another assault whilst on probation for assault - how come you were not jailed ?

[Scott]

I don't know whether you would be able to get a non-B and a work permit, but I would venture a guess that you would not.

I know that when we have had people with a criminal background, even if very minor, our visa officer at the school will not even entertain trying to get the paperwork through. She works closely with the various agencies and when she has talked to them verbally, they have said the applications would not be approved. This has been the case even with a conviction for drunk driving, in one instance.

Be aware, in these situations, the actual application was not submitted. I doubt very much had she submitted the paperwork that it would have anything but a negative outcome. The situation in other areas may be different.

Assault and drugs would be viewed very negatively in Thailand.

[lostinisaan]

"Assault on a Police Officer (February 2011) - 9 months probation

Assault (May 2011) - Caution

Possession of a controlled substance - 0.25 grams of the "legal high" mephedrone (September 2012) - Conditional discharge"

You committed another assault whilst on probation for assault - how come you were not jailed ?

I made a few mistakes in my early 20's and I have the following convictions:

Maybe he was jailed, wouldn't you think so? Only three months after an "Assault on a Police Officer" another Assault?

Usually time to spend some time.

If that happened in his early 20's, he's in his mid 20's now. Last conviction only three years ago. Hmm. Dr. Watson, what do you think?

Here's some information with an "ask a lawyer" option. http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-judgements/criminal-records.htm#

[oncearugge]

"Assault on a Police Officer (February 2011) - 9 months probation

Assault (May 2011) - Caution

Possession of a controlled substance - 0.25 grams of the "legal high" mephedrone (September 2012) - Conditional discharge"

You committed another assault whilst on probation for assault - how come you were not jailed ?

I made a few mistakes in my early 20's and I have the following convictions:

Maybe he was jailed, wouldn't you think so? Only three months after an "Assault on a Police Officer" another Assault?

Usually time to spend some time.

If that happened in his early 20's, he's in his mid 20's now. Last conviction only three years ago. Hmm. Dr. Watson, what do you think?

Here's some information with an "ask a lawyer" option. http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-judgements/criminal-records.htm#

Most of that is irrelevant to the OP who wishes to work with children.

https://www.acro.police.uk/icpc/

You will note the check includes a complete criminal record history.

[Mr23]

Hoping OP is on his 5th beer and just winding us up. But if not I hope you get denied because you are the last person that should be working with children.

I have a son going to kindergarten soon. Please let us know which ones you apply for.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Mr23

[WalesVISA]

"Assault on a Police Officer (February 2011) - 9 months probation

Assault (May 2011) - Caution

Possession of a controlled substance - 0.25 grams of the "legal high" mephedrone (September 2012) - Conditional discharge"

You committed another assault whilst on probation for assault - how come you were not jailed ?

I made a few mistakes in my early 20's and I have the following convictions:

Maybe he was jailed, wouldn't you think so? Only three months after an "Assault on a Police Officer" another Assault?

Usually time to spend some time.

If that happened in his early 20's, he's in his mid 20's now. Last conviction only three years ago. Hmm. Dr. Watson, what do you think?

Here's some information with an "ask a lawyer" option. http://www.inbrief.co.uk/court-judgements/criminal-records.htm#

Hoping OP is on his 5th beer and just winding us up. But if not I hope you get denied because you are the last person that should be working with children.

I have a son going to kindergarten soon. Please let us know which ones you apply for.

I don't know whether you would be able to get a non-B and a work permit, but I would venture a guess that you would not.

I know that when we have had people with a criminal background, even if very minor, our visa officer at the school will not even entertain trying to get the paperwork through. She works closely with the various agencies and when she has talked to them verbally, they have said the applications would not be approved. This has been the case even with a conviction for drunk driving, in one instance.

Be aware, in these situations, the actual application was not submitted. I doubt very much had she submitted the paperwork that it would have anything but a negative outcome. The situation in other areas may be different.

Assault and drugs would be viewed very negatively in Thailand.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your replies/advice,

Unfortunately i wasn't on my 5th beer when I wrote the post and this was a genuine query. To answer your question I did not do any time in prison, I was cautioned for the 2nd assault in May 2011 however the actual incident happened in the January and therefore I did not commit any further crimes while on probation.

To those of you that said you hope I get denied the VISA - Well...I dont blame you to be honest. I agree on the surface it looks pretty damn awful and if I was a parent with a child in the school I'm sure I wouldn't be too happy either.

In my defence though I think we all make mistakes and I believe I still have a lot to offer the children. I don't think throwing me on the scrapheap at 26 is helpful to me or society as a whole. Since those tough times I have completed college and University, getting the 2nd highest mark on the course. I volunteered with a youth offending charity for 2 years while completing my degree and I also have a glowing reference from my most recent employer in the UK. Hopefully the Thai ministry believes in the concept of rehabilitation.

Thanks again for your replies.

[Mencken]

Yeah...I was high as a kite on yaba, hit a cop. I've got some anger issues. No one will employ me at home...

Come to Thailand, work with children.

Genius.

I'll give you some solid advice bro. Stay in the UK. Find a trade you can dig in and become a journeyman. Work your ass off for forty years.

Why do you think you have the discipline to stay away from drugs and especially alcohol here?

Edited October 19, 2015 by Mencken