Deadly Food

[The Snark]

Does it need to be kept frozen? If so, DO NOT EAT IT!

I recently did a little investigating after I discovered twice unfrozen ice cream. None of the major food stores regularly receive frozen shipments from Bangkok. There are no loading docks that can accomodate 'reefer' trucks. There appears to be no established protocol which mandates all frozen foods must immediately be placed into refrigerators.

I inspected further. Most reefer trucks coming up from Bangkok go to warehousing and distribution centers. There their cargo may be unloaded and placed on smaller reefer trucks, placed on unrefrigerated trucks, or the cargo may simply be warehoused. I have witnessed all three.

Once the supposedly frozen foods reach their end destination the same thing happens. I saw ice cream stored on a pallet, unrefrigerated. It sat there most of the day before it was placed in a refrigerator unit. Even then, only part of the pallet fit in the refrigerator. The rest was left to sit unfrozen until room could be made.

For those of you who have not been in the food distribution business, this is normally watched like a hawk in America and Europe. I know of one truck driver in America who got caught with a loaded reefer trailer and the refrigeration unit was not running. He was fined over $40,000 and his company had to buy and destroy the load he was carrying.

There is no faster way to get food poisoning going, from minor intestinal gripes up to the big B. Be aware of what foods you are buying and eating. If it is reasonable to assume it had to be frozen, don't take the chance!

Edited October 2, 2006 by The Snark

[adjan jb]

There is no faster way to get food poisoning going, from minor intestinal gripes up to the big B. Be aware of what foods you are buying and eating. If it is reasonable to assume it had to be frozen, don't take the chance!

Since I witnessed what you describe in your post at Big C, I only buy fresh meat from my local market.

[thaigerd]

Does it need to be kept frozen? If so, DO NOT EAT IT!

I recently did a little investigating after I discovered twice unfrozen ice cream. None of the major food stores regularly receive frozen shipments from Bangkok. There are no loading docks that can accomodate 'reefer' trucks. There appears to be no established protocol which mandates all frozen foods must immediately be placed into refrigerators.

I inspected further. Most reefer trucks coming up from Bangkok go to warehousing and distribution centers. There their cargo may be unloaded and placed on smaller reefer trucks, placed on unrefrigerated trucks, or the cargo may simply be warehoused. I have witnessed all three.

Once the supposedly frozen foods reach their end destination the same thing happens. I saw ice cream stored on a pallet, unrefrigerated. It sat there most of the day before it was placed in a refrigerator unit. Even then, only part of the pallet fit in the refrigerator. The rest was left to sit unfrozen until room could be made.

For those of you who have not been in the food distribution business, this is normally watched like a hawk in America and Europe. I know of one truck driver in America who got caught with a loaded reefer trailer and the refrigeration unit was not running. He was fined over $40,000 and his company had to buy and destroy the load he was carrying.

There is no faster way to get food poisoning going, from minor intestinal gripes up to the big B. Be aware of what foods you are buying and eating. If it is reasonable to assume it had to be frozen, don't take the chance!

You are talking about HACCP and GMP ?

Some companies are following these rule hier in Thailand, bit not many

Gerd

[bladyslacker]

I like shopping at kart luang and pratoom chaingmai.

But for the pretty girls... I'd head to the supermarkets. (and for the air-con too.)

KM

There is no faster way to get food poisoning going, from minor intestinal gripes up to the big B. Be aware of what foods you are buying and eating. If it is reasonable to assume it had to be frozen, don't take the chance!

Since I witnessed what you describe in your post at Big C, I only buy fresh meat from my local market.

[Austhaied]

Does it need to be kept frozen? If so, DO NOT EAT IT!

I recently did a little investigating after I discovered twice unfrozen ice cream. None of the major food stores regularly receive frozen shipments from Bangkok. There are no loading docks that can accomodate 'reefer' trucks. There appears to be no established protocol which mandates all frozen foods must immediately be placed into refrigerators.

I inspected further. Most reefer trucks coming up from Bangkok go to warehousing and distribution centers. There their cargo may be unloaded and placed on smaller reefer trucks, placed on unrefrigerated trucks, or the cargo may simply be warehoused. I have witnessed all three.

Once the supposedly frozen foods reach their end destination the same thing happens. I saw ice cream stored on a pallet, unrefrigerated. It sat there most of the day before it was placed in a refrigerator unit. Even then, only part of the pallet fit in the refrigerator. The rest was left to sit unfrozen until room could be made.

For those of you who have not been in the food distribution business, this is normally watched like a hawk in America and Europe. I know of one truck driver in America who got caught with a loaded reefer trailer and the refrigeration unit was not running. He was fined over $40,000 and his company had to buy and destroy the load he was carrying.

There is no faster way to get food poisoning going, from minor intestinal gripes up to the big B. Be aware of what foods you are buying and eating. If it is reasonable to assume it had to be frozen, don't take the chance!

For one, this is not Europe or America, so you know what do do if you dont like it.. Contetment is a state of mind.. i am sure your complaint to the Thai management involved in this practice will appreciate some "farang kii bon".. again..NOT. I dont know anyone who has ever got food poisoning from any of the supermarkets here..Don't think i dont agree with you , i do. Its just another day in the life of "TIT"...But i am sure on your noble quest to save the world from evil, that someone will listen, just not me.. Bon appetit mon ami..

[Blinky Bill]

For one, this is not Europe or America, so you know what do do if you dont like it.. Contetment is a state of mind.. i am sure your complaint to the Thai management involved in this practice will appreciate some "farang kii bon".. again..NOT. I dont know anyone who has ever got food poisoning from any of the supermarkets here..Don't think i dont agree with you , i do. Its just another day in the life of "TIT"...But i am sure on your noble quest to save the world from evil, that someone will listen, just not me.. Bon appetit mon ami..

Couldn't have said it better mate.

[jomama]

For one, this is not Europe or America, so you know what do do if you dont like it.. Contetment is a state of mind.. i am sure your complaint to the Thai management involved in this practice will appreciate some "farang kii bon".. again..NOT. I dont know anyone who has ever got food poisoning from any of the supermarkets here..Don't think i dont agree with you , i do. Its just another day in the life of "TIT"...But i am sure on your noble quest to save the world from evil, that someone will listen, just not me.. Bon appetit mon ami..

Couldn't have said it better mate.

I have been buying and eating frozen foods here for more than a decade. Never had food poisoning. Still, something to keep in mind, perhaps going for fresh meats and not frozen.

[miltonbentley]

Always buy fresh - although I do enjoy a frozen pea. Don't suppose the odd petite pois will do me in though.

Edited October 2, 2006 by miltonbentley

[Donnyboy]

Always buy fresh - although I do enjoy a frozen pea. Don't suppose the odd petite pois will do me in though.

Remember, its still possible to get food poisoning from fresh food as well. IE- not cooked throughly. especially of chicken, pork and ground beef.

I haven touched the uncooked seafood here since my episode with the raw crabs one day. Talk about a bad bout. Had more runs than Tendulker!!

Also wash fresh veges throughly due to the chemicals they spray on everything.

[The Snark]

Love it. Point out basic flaws in standard food handling procedures and a couple of geniuses get up and proclaim it hasn't happened in their eyes therefore it doesn't exist/isn't a problem.

Another word of caution. As what is going on in the US at this moment, E-Coli will not be killed or removed by washing. Some degree of infections from various sub strains is very prevalent. Avoid a false sense of security. In order for E-Coli in all forms to be killed it must be subjected to 15 minutes of saturated steam at 235 degrees farenheit or 50 minutes submersion in a 10% bleach solution. E-Coli comes from human and animal feces. Wash foods that are suspected of pesticides by all means, but avoiding potential poo contaminated foods is always a good watch for as you cannot make them safe by ordinary means.

"You are talking about HACCP and GMP ?"

I've deliberately avoided pointing fingers or naming names.

Edited October 2, 2006 by The Snark

[Ajarn]

Love it. Point out basic flaws in standard food handling procedures and a couple of geniuses get up and proclaim it hasn't happened in their eyes therefore it doesn't exist/isn't a problem.

Another word of caution. As what is going on in the US at this moment, E-Coli will not be killed or removed by washing. Some degree of infections from various sub strains is very prevalent. Avoid a false sense of security. In order for E-Coli in all forms to be killed it must be subjected to 15 minutes of saturated steam at 235 degrees farenheit or 50 minutes submersion in a 10% bleach solution. E-Coli comes from human and animal feces. Wash foods that are suspected of pesticides by all means, but avoiding potential poo contaminated foods is always a good watch for as you cannot make them safe by ordinary means.

"

Afraid I am another one. I have never gotten food poisoning here, so I don't worry about it. Maybe you just need to be here longer.

Edited October 2, 2006 by Ajarn

[Diablo Bob]

Love it. Point out basic flaws in standard food handling procedures and a couple of geniuses get up and proclaim it hasn't happened in their eyes therefore it doesn't exist/isn't a problem.

Another word of caution. As what is going on in the US at this moment, E-Coli will not be killed or removed by washing. Some degree of infections from various sub strains is very prevalent. Avoid a false sense of security. In order for E-Coli in all forms to be killed it must be subjected to 15 minutes of saturated steam at 235 degrees farenheit or 50 minutes submersion in a 10% bleach solution. E-Coli comes from human and animal feces. Wash foods that are suspected of pesticides by all means, but avoiding potential poo contaminated foods is always a good watch for as you cannot make them safe by ordinary means.

"You are talking about HACCP and GMP ?"

I've deliberately avoided pointing fingers or naming names.

Ohhhh it exist's but is it really a problem, NO!

Personally, one of the things I love about this part of the world is the LACK of a health department who wants to regulate the temperature of my coffee, how/where my food is cooked & served etc.

I like going to roadside food stands, out in the open with dirt floors. Can't do that in the USA.

Everything becomes a problem in the USA. Then they decide lets regulate how everything is done. I think that the USA is breeding a population that will not be resistant to anything because of their health departments. Everything is to CLEAN in the USA, throw some dirt and a few bugs in it to strengthen the overall Health of the USA.

[chanchao]

>> "You are talking about HACCP and GMP ?"

> I've deliberately avoided pointing fingers or naming names.

LOL..

google.com/search?q=what is HACCP

google.com/search?q=what is GMP

That said, I once had an upset stomach from some fried small fish at one of the hypermarkets.

The other good laugh I got out of "Well I'll just buy my meat at local fresh markets then."

As for frozen icecream, I think you'd notice it if it defrosted and was frozen again. Meats.. I don't eat meats that have to be flown in frozen, or otherwise.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[The Snark]

Ajarn, you are particularly fussy about your food, to the degree you could be called an epicurean.

Is it a problem? With local food, not really. With foods that Thai's are unfamiliar with that, where simply defrosting and refreezing can pack a lethal dose of botulism, yes it is. Native peoples know basically know how to prevent the spread of food born diseases. With unfamiliar foods such as the recent influx of frozen foods, they do not know what problems can arise.

I posted this as frozen foods, especially imported, is making it's first major appearance in the Chiang Mai area. The proper handling methods for these new foods has yet to make the same inroads. NEW! Not old, not 10 years ago, NEW.

Let us ask this question: What is wrong with storing a chicken in your freezer above an ice cube tray? If you know, ask the average Thai if he or she knows.

Edited October 3, 2006 by The Snark

[Diablo Bob]

Ajarn, you are particularly fussy about your food, to the degree you could be called an epicurean.

Is it a problem? With local food, not really. With foods that Thai's are unfamiliar with that, where simply defrosting and refreezing can pack a lethal dose of botulism, yes it is. Native peoples know basically know how to prevent the spread of food born diseases. With unfamiliar foods such as the recent influx of frozen foods, they do not know what problems can arise.

I posted this as frozen foods, especially imported, is making it's first major appearance in the Chiang Mai area. The proper handling methods for these new foods has yet to make the same inroads. NEW! Not old, not 10 years ago, NEW.

Let us ask this question: What is wrong with storing a chicken in your freezer above an ice cube tray? If you know, ask the average Thai if he or she knows.

NEW, I think NOT!

My family was purchasing Frozen foods from the USA in Bangkok in the late 50s & Early 60s.

I was purchasing Frozen foods from Europe and the USA in the 70s here in Thailand.

As for the chicken question, I don't know nor care, I purchase my chicken freshly killed at my local market. But come November, I will be getting my Butterball Turkey from Rimping, and just like the past will have a great Thanksgiving Dinner without any woories.

[Blinky Bill]

Ajarn, you are particularly fussy about your food, to the degree you could be called an epicurean.

Is it a problem? With local food, not really. With foods that Thai's are unfamiliar with that, where simply defrosting and refreezing can pack a lethal dose of botulism, yes it is. Native peoples know basically know how to prevent the spread of food born diseases. With unfamiliar foods such as the recent influx of frozen foods, they do not know what problems can arise.

I posted this as frozen foods, especially imported, is making it's first major appearance in the Chiang Mai area. The proper handling methods for these new foods has yet to make the same inroads. NEW! Not old, not 10 years ago, NEW.

Let us ask this question: What is wrong with storing a chicken in your freezer above an ice cube tray? If you know, ask the average Thai if he or she knows. What? Who cares!!

NEW, I think NOT!

My family was purchasing Frozen foods from the USA in Bangkok in the late 50s & Early 60s.

I was purchasing Frozen foods from Europe and the USA in the 70s here in Thailand.

As for the chicken question, I don't know nor care, I purchase my chicken freshly killed at my local market. But come November, I will be getting my Butterball Turkey from Rimping, and just like the past will have a great Thanksgiving Dinner without any woories.

The Snark is starting to sound a lot like that clown JRingo who was trying to bring fear into folks with his thoughts on The Great Chiang Mai Earthquake that has yet to happen.

Apart from a few doses of the shits over the past almost quarter of a century in Thailand I have yet to succumb to any fatal case of food poisoning and I don't know of anyone who has. If you are worried about how things are done here Snark I can give you directions to the airport.

And Diablo Bob, what time can I turn up for some of that Butterball Turkey? I'll bring a bottle of Australian Red.

[Gonzo the Face]

Ajarn, you are particularly fussy about your food, to the degree you could be called an epicurean.

Is it a problem? With local food, not really. With foods that Thai's are unfamiliar with that, where simply defrosting and refreezing can pack a lethal dose of botulism, yes it is. Native peoples know basically know how to prevent the spread of food born diseases. With unfamiliar foods such as the recent influx of frozen foods, they do not know what problems can arise.

I posted this as frozen foods, especially imported, is making it's first major appearance in the Chiang Mai area. The proper handling methods for these new foods has yet to make the same inroads. NEW! Not old, not 10 years ago, NEW.

Let us ask this question: What is wrong with storing a chicken in your freezer above an ice cube tray? If you know, ask the average Thai if he or she knows. What? Who cares!!

NEW, I think NOT!

My family was purchasing Frozen foods from the USA in Bangkok in the late 50s & Early 60s.

I was purchasing Frozen foods from Europe and the USA in the 70s here in Thailand.

As for the chicken question, I don't know nor care, I purchase my chicken freshly killed at my local market. But come November, I will be getting my Butterball Turkey from Rimping, and just like the past will have a great Thanksgiving Dinner without any woories.

The Snark is starting to sound a lot like that clown JRingo who was trying to bring fear into folks with his thoughts on The Great Chiang Mai Earthquake that has yet to happen.

Apart from a few doses of the shits over the past almost quarter of a century in Thailand I have yet to succumb to any fatal case of food poisoning and I don't know of anyone who has. If you are worried about how things are done here Snark I can give you directions to the airport.

And Diablo Bob, what time can I turn up for some of that Butterball Turkey? I'll bring a bottle of Australian Red.

Brown Brothers, Special Tawney Port

[Diablo Bob]

Ajarn, you are particularly fussy about your food, to the degree you could be called an epicurean.

Is it a problem? With local food, not really. With foods that Thai's are unfamiliar with that, where simply defrosting and refreezing can pack a lethal dose of botulism, yes it is. Native peoples know basically know how to prevent the spread of food born diseases. With unfamiliar foods such as the recent influx of frozen foods, they do not know what problems can arise.

I posted this as frozen foods, especially imported, is making it's first major appearance in the Chiang Mai area. The proper handling methods for these new foods has yet to make the same inroads. NEW! Not old, not 10 years ago, NEW.

Let us ask this question: What is wrong with storing a chicken in your freezer above an ice cube tray? If you know, ask the average Thai if he or she knows. What? Who cares!!

NEW, I think NOT!

My family was purchasing Frozen foods from the USA in Bangkok in the late 50s & Early 60s.

I was purchasing Frozen foods from Europe and the USA in the 70s here in Thailand.

As for the chicken question, I don't know nor care, I purchase my chicken freshly killed at my local market. But come November, I will be getting my Butterball Turkey from Rimping, and just like the past will have a great Thanksgiving Dinner without any woories.

The Snark is starting to sound a lot like that clown JRingo who was trying to bring fear into folks with his thoughts on The Great Chiang Mai Earthquake that has yet to happen.

Apart from a few doses of the shits over the past almost quarter of a century in Thailand I have yet to succumb to any fatal case of food poisoning and I don't know of anyone who has. If you are worried about how things are done here Snark I can give you directions to the airport.

And Diablo Bob, what time can I turn up for some of that Butterball Turkey? I'll bring a bottle of Australian Red.

BB

I once tried eating a freshly slaughtered turkey for Thanksgiving when I was staying in Issan. It just didn't taste quite the same as a Butterball turkey. The difference must be in the genetically modified grain and the bakery feed additives that are just chock full of all those bad Red Dye #? and lets not forget those great hormones which just continue to add flavor!

Ahhhh....... Only in America!

And just think of all the Freeze/Thaw cycles the turkey recieves on it's ocean voyage to Thailand and overland to Chiangmai. Did you ever wonder when a Butterball turkey is slaughtered and put in the freezer? I am betting they are 2-3 years dead when they arrive in Thailand! This might explain why that nifty little pop up thermometer never works......

Ohhhh, drinks at Noon, dinner at 4pm!

[sabaijai]

Reading this thread makes me want to go back to being a vegetarian ... almost.

[WaiWai]

Reading this thread makes me want to go back to being a vegetarian ... almost.

Ditto !

Perhaps we have a statistically aberrant population here.

"Food poisoning refers to any illness caused by eating contaminated food. The food may contain toxins produced by staphylococcal organisms, bacteria such as E.coli and salmonella, botulism, and other poisons.

Food poisoning remains a fairly common illness affecting about one in three people each year. "

http://www.medic8.com/healthguide/articles...ngoverview.html

"We estimate that foodborne diseases cause approximately 76 million illnesses, 325,000 hospitalizations, and 5,000 deaths in the United States each year. Known pathogens account for an estimated 14 million illnesses, 60,000 hospitalizations, and 1,800 deaths. Three pathogens, Salmonella, Listeria, and Toxoplasma, are responsible for 1,500 deaths each year, more than 75% of those caused by known pathogens, while unknown agents account for the remaining 62 million illnesses, 265,000 hospitalizations, and 3,200 deaths. "

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol5no5/mead.htm

Edited October 3, 2006 by WaiWai

[higgy88]

How about a nice fresh spinach salad from the US?

[Blinky Bill]

BB

I once tried eating a freshly slaughtered turkey for Thanksgiving when I was staying in Issan. It just didn't taste quite the same as a Butterball turkey . The difference must be in the genetically modified grain and the bakery feed additives that are just chock full of all those bad Red Dye #? and lets not forget those great hormones which just continue to add flavor!

Ahhhh....... Only in America!

And just think of all the Freeze/Thaw cycles the turkey recieves on it's ocean voyage to Thailand and overland to Chiangmai. Did you ever wonder when a Butterball turkey is slaughtered and put in the freezer? I am betting they are 2-3 years dead when they arrive in Thailand! This might explain why that nifty little pop up thermometer never works......

Ohhhh, drinks at Noon, dinner at 4pm!

Should have cooked it first!!

[Diablo Bob]

BB

I once tried eating a freshly slaughtered turkey for Thanksgiving when I was staying in Issan. It just didn't taste quite the same as a Butterball turkey . The difference must be in the genetically modified grain and the bakery feed additives that are just chock full of all those bad Red Dye #? and lets not forget those great hormones which just continue to add flavor!

Ahhhh....... Only in America!

And just think of all the Freeze/Thaw cycles the turkey receives on it's ocean voyage to Thailand and overland to Chiangmai. Did you ever wonder when a Butterball turkey is slaughtered and put in the freezer? I am betting they are 2-3 years dead when they arrive in Thailand! This might explain why that nifty little pop up thermometer never works......

Ohhhh, drinks at Noon, dinner at 4pm!

Should have cooked it first!!

BB,

I was trying an Appalachian (West Virginia) Sushi recipe....... cooking was not a requirement.

You know Sushi, a little ginger and Soy Sauce with some raw fish and you have a meal, but you are so far away from the ocean in West Virginia they just substitute turkey with fish!

[helitool]

Snark is trying to let us know of a problem with food handeling in Thailand. If what he says is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) we should be thanking him for telling us about his findings instead of acting like half wits and asses!

While most of us have probably never had a problem with frozen food it doesn't mean that our luck will continue.

[chanchao]

> we should be thanking him for telling us about his findings

> instead of acting like half wits and asses!

Good observation. Guess it comes naturally to most of us. (incl. yours truly).

I guess the response comes from the premise that if people living in Thailand were overly concerned about safety, they wouldn't live in Thailand. Any kind of yapping about US/Euro style regulations tends to trigger a knee-jerk reflex, as it impedes the perceived semi-anarchy of life in Thailand, called 'mai pen rai' in Thai and best translated as "do whatever the F you want, with no whining about the consequences" for most of us. Not to be taken too serious, of course.

Edited October 4, 2006 by chanchao