A letter from the court

[WonnabeBiker]

Some schools have perfected their systems when it comes to ripping off foreign teachers. Often, this involves the contract. Beware when you not get it signed prior to hopping on a bus...

* The year may end in February, not March (or May - for those with 12 months' contracts which are so much better, including avoidance of Visa hassle & expense)

* No re-negotiation after you begun, got a place rented etc.

What to do when a government school defrauds you?

A: forget Labour Court, it has no jurisdiction!

Well, I took the school to Administrative Court. Had to pay a 2% fee, submit everything in Thai. The school hired an attorney and produced hundreds of pages (printouts of their finger print system) and thought tooth and nail.

The court first collected the money, then they wrote to me, asking to come and collect it in person.

All it took was getting someone to write a complaint, add the 2% fee by postal money order and mail it to the regional court. No hearings, just a long wait.

The Thai Administrative Court may be the place when you want to walk the walk.

[tonray]

What was your issue...you have not offered a very clear explanation of what your complaint was.

[masuk]

Exactly. Also, what was the decision?

[lostinisaan]

Can you be a little bit more precise, please? Don't really get the reason why you took them to court? Be a biker.......

[ldiablo]

Is this an advertisement for the Thai Administrative Court or just a silly post?

[lostinisaan]

Is this an advertisement for the Thai Administrative Court or just a silly post?

It seems to be an annual thing.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/709584-government-schools-not-paying-what-to-do/

Edited October 23, 2015 by lostinisaan

[bangmai]

As far as a 10 month vs. a 12 month contract. It's rarely a difference between whether or not you will get two extra months of pay; it is a matter of getting more for ten months and them owing you zero, or them paying you less for all twelve months. I've seen teachers stand there and claim that they won't have any money during the Summer. I guess they don't have the wherewithal to put money aside for the off months. But, they have what it takes to supervise and teach 180, 13 year-olds?

[aarontendo]

As far as a 10 month vs. a 12 month contract. It's rarely a difference between whether or not you will get two extra months of pay; it is a matter of getting more for ten months and them owing you zero, or them paying you less for all twelve months. I've seen teachers stand there and claim that they won't have any money during the Summer. I guess they don't have the wherewithal to put money aside for the off months. But, they have what it takes to supervise and teach 180, 13 year-olds?

So teachers who are on 10 month contracts for 35k a month are now being overpaid? See, no, that's just how the agency spins it to ya.

[bangmai]

What I stated applies to all pay levels. Getting paid the same over 12 months also puts you at risk of having to work at camps, etc..

[aarontendo]

In my experience the places putting people on 10 month contracts are often low salaries as well. I'm not exactly sure how this philophy jives with the fact that the higher end jobs are both 12 month payment and higher salaries. It's probably not a big issue, as people on those contracts typicaly either are working illegally or are on their first year here.

You are right about the camps though, no argument there.

[bangmai]

Would you be more likely to respond to a job offering 29,167 or 35,000? You would actually be 4 THB better off at 29,167, after they tell you that the 35K is a 10 month contract. But, who in their right mind would want most of these jokers owing you 60k THB, during a time when you might be out of the country. I think you would stand a better chance of a landlord putting your deposit back into your account....and that is somewhat less than 100%, too,

[sir charles IV]

No wonder the school tried to get rid of him. Lol. Very poor comprehension.

[ggt]

Unless you are a naive newbie...then you are well aware of the inherent risks of participating in any endeavor in Thailand...

TV Forum has numerous sad and disturbing postings of people who have had unsatisfactory experiences trying to teach in this country...

Learn to go with the flow...or change countries/professions...

[smotherb]

Can you be a little bit more precise, please? Don't really get the reason why you took them to court? Be a biker.......

Please, he's a teacher, how do you expect him to explain anything?

[bangmai]

Unless you are a naive newbie...then you are well aware of the inherent risks of participating in any endeavor in Thailand...

TV Forum has numerous sad and disturbing postings of people who have had unsatisfactory experiences trying to teach in this country...

Learn to go with the flow...or change countries/professions...

The same unsatisfactory experiences can be found in China, Korea, and even the good ole USA. Same song; different words. Maybe it is just the most non-businesslike profession because so few have actually worked in business.

[lostinisaan]

Can you be a little bit more precise, please? Don't really get the reason why you took them to court? Be a biker.......

Please, he's a teacher, how do you expect him to explain anything?

Hmm, well. You're absolutely right. What a stupid question. I apologize.Let's eat grandma..........

[F4UCorsair]

Is this an advertisement for the Thai Administrative Court or just a silly post?

Maybe both? He hasn't come bacl despite requests to explain more/better.

[beerzy]

I am still in the dark exactly what the problem was????

[lostinisaan]

Wonnabee seems to be busy writing his next post. Please don't be so hard on him and give him some time. Nobody's perfect.

[WonnabeBiker]

What was your issue...you have not offered a very clear explanation of what your complaint was.

They wouldn't follow through with the paperwork. (I was led to believe they would transfer the existing WP).

When this failed, I asked for an employment contract. They refused but wanted me to keep working - and do Visa runs.

They never bothered with small things like B-Visa, Work Permits or asking the TCT for approval. Money was collected from the parents: 700 B p.a.

In the absence of a contract and not having proof of salary payments, I left.

They fabricated stuff to avoid paying me the last month's salary. But there was a fingerprint scanner and they had to submit hundreds of pages...

Anyhow, I'll have to go and collect the dough.

[BruceMangosteen]

I think you would stand a better chance of a landlord putting your deposit back into your account....and that is somewhat less than 100%, too,

For those new to Thailand, the Thai's generally don't give back "deposits" made on rental units. There are no escrow laws, no fear of legal action etc. at this low level. Add to that you are a farang and you have your percentage. Darn near zero. That of course doesn't give you the right to destroy the property. All you have to do is refuse to give "two months rent" deposits. Plenty of units available with one month or even less of a deposit.

But, who in their right mind would want most of these jokers owing you

As to the other disgusting remark, suffice it to say that most if not all Government schools will pay you what you are owed if there is a contract to do so and you fulfilled your duties. It's the "agencies" who will fudge and cheat you out of earnings. Their "contracts" with said schools are to provide teachers by the hour, but they hire the farang by the month and then squeeze as much as they can out of the teacher including as I say, not paying him/her for work actually performed. Forget getting paid extra for gate duty, English camps or clubs, seminars, contests, etc.. These aren't billed by the agency and if you have a "contract" they are included(assumed) as part of your full time responsibilities.

Edited October 31, 2015 by BruceMangosteen

[tonray]

What was your issue...you have not offered a very clear explanation of what your complaint was.

They wouldn't follow through with the paperwork. (I was led to believe they would transfer the existing WP).

When this failed, I asked for an employment contract. They refused but wanted me to keep working - and do Visa runs.

They never bothered with small things like B-Visa, Work Permits or asking the TCT for approval. Money was collected from the parents: 700 B p.a.

In the absence of a contract and not having proof of salary payments, I left.

They fabricated stuff to avoid paying me the last month's salary. But there was a fingerprint scanner and they had to submit hundreds of pages...

Anyhow, I'll have to go and collect the dough.

With all due respect you should not have even worked 1 hour without a signed contract up front. That goes for anywhere in the world not just Thai schools. you set yourself up.

[lostinisaan]

Let 's snip a little....

Government schools not paying - what to do?

Started by WonnabeBiker, 2014-03-09 05:51

" Am not impressed with Administrative Court.

• I've opened an account at the branch they are banking with.
• The following month, I called several times "to sign the book" and get paid. That was a waste of time. On one occasion, the excuse was "the director has your check". *** Why's that? Just wait for the half-starved mouse to come out of its hiding place and go for the cheese? (Imagine a maid needing to get paid. and some horny boss makes her come to him to get paid... That's not good in a large organization. Enough said).

I need the money badly and am very bitter about the whole set-up. You see, the Region XX office's solution was "write a letter to the director, asking to get paid". That was months ago. I was polite and never got an answer.

My contract requires them to give 3 months' notice in writing. The contract language is English.

Hours before the end of the last day of the month, I was handed a 1 page letter in Thai (which I cannot read). So this is how it's done?

Labour Court said, you must go to Administrative Court.

( That's from your post last year 9th of March....., please see link in my earlier post!)

Now, please let's get to your current one:

A letter from the court

Started by WonnabeBiker, 2015-10-23 14:18

<snip> Some schools have perfected their systems when it comes to ripping off foreign teachers. Often, this involves the contract. Beware when you not get it signed prior to hopping on a bus..

Well, I took the school to Administrative Court. Had to pay a 2% fee, submit everything in Thai. The school hired an attorney and produced hundreds of pages (printouts of their finger print system) and thought tooth and nail.(Original post)

Your own response in post # 20<snip>

"They wouldn't follow through with the paperwork. (I was led to believe they would transfer the existing WP). When this failed, I asked for an employment contract. They refused but wanted me to keep working - and do Visa runs

In the absence of a contract and not having proof of salary payments, I left." <snip end>

You were led to believe? Dude, you're so long on this forum that you should know the rules up and down. And back and forth.......

You started your new thread on the 23rd of October and all you do is blaming the school/ agency for not having a signed contract?

" I was led to believe that they would transfer the existing WP ???" "When this failed you asked for an employment contract? Holy buffalo, what the heck's wrong with you?

Now you're really trying to blame the school for something you had done and that's quite insane.

1. Working on a tourist visa. 2. Working without a work permit. 3. Not paying taxes.( But I'm happy to pay more, just because of you)

4. Blaming the wrong people for your own wrongdoing. Etcetera pp./////

You left the school, but you wanted to collect your full salary? I tend to believe that there must have been a reason(s) why they were not interested to do all the paperwork for you to apply for a waiver at the TCT. Would you have a TL, it wouldn't have been a problem, right?

Reading your post from last year in March and now this one, I really do smell some dead and rotten fish somewhere under your pillow.

Have you ever thought about school administrators who only have to make a short phone call and find out all about you in one minute?

A long time ago I wrote that you should try to be a real biker and not a Wonnabebiker. But it seems that the message has never reached your brain.

It's always easy to blame others for your own wrongdoing. How comes that you've had the same problems with two schools in a timeframe of only 19 months ?

Anyway, it's not my business at all and I wish you best of luck finding a new school that can handle a farang like you.

Edited October 31, 2015 by lostinisaan

[aarontendo]

It's always easy to blame others for your own wrongdoing. How comes that you've had the same problems with two schools in a timeframe of only 19 months ?

Heh true, and on that note foreigners who have the same problem in other areas of employment as well. For example, whining for over a year about payments into a social security scheme here that on a lucky day can pay for a turkey on rye sandwich.

[tonray]

If I had to guess from the OPs wording...he is a non native English speaker...always a difficult challenge for school directors to maintain on staff.

[BruceMangosteen]

If I had to guess from the OPs wording...he is a non native English speaker...always a difficult challenge for school directors to maintain on staff.

Directors don't normally get involved in these exchanges. Any teacher who goes directly to said Director causes the department/coordinator to lose face which is much more important that some farangs gripes. As far as non native speakers, the trend as you must surely know by now is to hire Filipino's who are part of the new community and to pay them a lot less than the "farang" be she a NES or not. If you introduce violence to your issue you will have one chance and don't bluff. Otherwise, forget it, you didn't get paid because they don't want to pay you.

[tonray]

If I had to guess from the OPs wording...he is a non native English speaker...always a difficult challenge for school directors to maintain on staff.

Directors don't normally get involved in these exchanges. Any teacher who goes directly to said Director causes the department/coordinator to lose face which is much more important that some farangs gripes. As far as non native speakers, the trend as you must surely know by now is to hire Filipino's who are part of the new community and to pay them a lot less than the "farang" be she a NES or not. If you introduce violence to your issue you will have one chance and don't bluff. Otherwise, forget it, you didn't get paid because they don't want to pay you.

Also in my experience as long as you are doing an adequate job, checking all the boxes of the 'Thai grading system" like your school wants, and not pissing anyone off by shooting off your mouth, more often than not schools will be falling over themselves to talk you into another year. To be dumped on by 2 different schools...you really need to re-think your approach.

Edited November 1, 2015 by tonray

[lostinisaan]

If I had to guess from the OPs wording...he is a non native English speaker...always a difficult challenge for school directors to maintain on staff.

Directors don't normally get involved in these exchanges. Any teacher who goes directly to said Director causes the department/coordinator to lose face which is much more important that some farangs gripes. As far as non native speakers, the trend as you must surely know by now is to hire Filipino's who are part of the new community and to pay them a lot less than the "farang" be she a NES or not. If you introduce violence to your issue you will have one chance and don't bluff. Otherwise, forget it, you didn't get paid because they don't want to pay you.

Also in my experience as long as you are doing an adequate job, checking all the boxes of the 'Thai grading system" like your school wants, and not pissing anyone off by shooting off your mouth, more often than not schools will be falling over themselves to talk you into another year. To be dumped on by 2 different schools...you really need to re-think your approach.

It's always easier to find the mistakes at other people than starting to thnk about your own part in the system.

Better to point your finger at someone else than having a deep look in a mirror. We're all foreigners here and that will never change.

One time, okay.

But on two following years the same problem(s) that schools don't pay "in time?"

Never happened to me that they didn't pay my salary, even after resigning a teaching position.and you don't read something similar that often.

Edited November 1, 2015 by lostinisaan