Please Advise-work Without Work Permit

[little bee]

Hi All

I got Non Immigrant O visa as married with Thai and now I got a job in Bangkok. The company told me that I can work without work permit during it during processing period.

What is the penalty if they catch me?

Are they going to cancel my non O?

Is my name will be on the blacklist?

Thank you for your advise

Aussie guy

[Maizefarmer]

How that ties in with your current visa I dont know but it is correct that you are permitted to work while your WP is been processed.

.........and no, yuor name will not be on any blacklist - even if you are nicked working without a WP or application pending. The so-called black everyone talks about on here is a very serious matter that you are put on for serious matters - if that were the case then there would be no foreign English teachers or dive instructors in Thailand. When they get caught they pay their fine, do their visa run and are back on the job a few days later - end of subject.

I have been here 20 years and I know only of 4 ex-pats black listed and both were officialy deported and convicted of criminal offences for which they served prison sentances before been deported - and I know a few others who have served prison sentances and were not blacklisted.

You have no chance of been "black-listed" in your situation - relax.

tim

Edited October 3, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[aussiestyle1983]

Im in the same boat as you, working on a Non O because im married to a Thai but un like you, I dont intend to apply for a work permit because my school said it would be better for the both of us to keep it simple, no work permit, no tax, more money, cash in the hand. I too would also like to know what would happen if I get caught doing this, but as far as I am aware it will proably just be a fine for me and my employer.

Edited October 3, 2006 by aussiestyle1983

[Noel]

Im in the same boat as you, working on a Non O because im married to a Thai but un like you, I dont intend to apply for a work permit because my school said it would be better for the both of us to keep it simple, no work permit, no tax, more money, cash in the hand. I too would also like to know what would happen if I get caught doing this, but as far as I am aware it will proably just be a fine for me and my employer.

So knowingly breaking the law seems 'fine' to you?

I hope the authorities are as casual about you working illegally if and when they catch you, although I somehow doubt they will be.

Hmmm, I am sure your intelligence will be of great benefit to the Thai education system...

[Maizefarmer]

Im in the same boat as you, working on a Non O because im married to a Thai but un like you, I dont intend to apply for a work permit because my school said it would be better for the both of us to keep it simple, no work permit, no tax, more money, cash in the hand. I too would also like to know what would happen if I get caught doing this, but as far as I am aware it will proably just be a fine for me and my employer.

I agree with NOEL - you should it properly and get yourself sorted out paperwork wise, but that said - no, you will not be blacklisted - but you will contribute towards the introduction of rules and regs like are taken place now that are making things nothing but a big headache for everyone.

I strongly encourage you to get legal.

Tim

[little bee]

Thank you eveyone

Someone told me that if the company submit the documents to Labour department, they will give you some doc. to show that your work permit under process. But my company not start to do anything yet!! And another annoying thing is I got the job at the new airport as you know. There will be heaps of immi there I will be sweating all day

My thai friend told me that they will fine the company not you?? or they will fine both?

[smartecosse]

Im in the same boat as you, working on a Non O because im married to a Thai but un like you, I dont intend to apply for a work permit because my school said it would be better for the both of us to keep it simple, no work permit, no tax, more money, cash in the hand. I too would also like to know what would happen if I get caught doing this, but as far as I am aware it will proably just be a fine for me and my employer.

no ownder they are cracking down on the visa front - people like you seem to think that its perfectly ok to work illegally.

bet you have a different opinion on the illegal workers in your own homeland from whatever country they come from and if you don't i don't actually care .

why can't you tossers work within the system and pay tax etc. is is that <deleted> hard to conform??

[Maizefarmer]

Actually - if you are working in the Lions Den so to speak - and have a silly little ID tag around your neck, I would suggest that that would probebrly be the very last place they would think to look for someone working illegally - unles you are acting as some sort of tourist guide/pickup - which they do target occassionaly!!

But in any event - so long as your WP paperwork is in the pipeline - you are safe - RELAX

[aussiestyle1983]

Well I am a foreigner working in Thailand and if a Thai company employes me and instructs me not to get a work permit, as far as im concerned, fine by me. Now, I only plan to be here 1 more year so all the hassel involved in getting a work permit would just be wasted after I leave and I dont have a degree so most likely, I would have no chance in getting a work permit anyway. And as far as my school is concerned, they know I do not have a degree so I have not lied to the to get the job and as far as the school being so called "raided" i doubt it, I work for a private mimi-bilingual school in the outer suburbs of bangkok, so I think im pretty safe for now. Visa wise, I have a 1 year Non - O so I am not one of the people who need to make visa runs every 30 days in order to stay here and i dont need to rely on my illegal employment to stay here, I have a lot of money but the only reason i teach is because I love teaching and helping others and besides that, there is not many other constructive things to do.

[andy1308]

Hi,

I was in the same situation a few months ago. You, or your company, does get an official acknowledgement that the application is being processed, but until you physically get the work permit then legally you're not allowed to work. My application process took the best part of a month, if that helps.

Andy.

[toptuan]

Im in the same boat as you, working on a Non O because im married to a Thai but un like you, I dont intend to apply for a work permit because my school said it would be better for the both of us to keep it simple, no work permit, no tax, more money, cash in the hand. I too would also like to know what would happen if I get caught doing this, but as far as I am aware it will proably just be a fine for me and my employer.

Simply analyzed: unethical illegal worker, and unethical employer.

Your school and you deserve each other.

And no, not having a degree doesn't excuse you. You can get an English teaching job in any province of Thailand without a degree, so you're not the innocent rare exception.

Meanwhile, the price you pay, of course, is to keep looking over your shoulder, and keep your bags packed. After you've been here over a year, good luck renewing your visa without showing evidence of paying taxes. (It's been known for airport immigration to require visa B and visa O travelers leaving the country to produce evidence of having paid their taxes. The penalty? Pay all your back taxes on the spot if you want to leave the country.) Let that thought put you at ease as you contemplate your final act of slinking away from a country whose tax-supported benefits you've enjoyed.

Incidentally, how does Aussie-land treat freeloaders and tax-dodgers?

Edited October 3, 2006 by toptuan

[aussiestyle1983]

How can immigration at the airport charge me for tax when I have not been working here? Obviously if I have been working here illegally they will not know about it. When they ask how did I support myself whilst here they can just look at my farang bank statements from Oz and see that I had plenty of money to live on, adding to that the $9,999 AUD cash that I brought over here as spending money before I came here.

Any way thanks for that info, it will give me time to prepair the necessary doccuments.................

[smartecosse]

How can immigration at the airport charge me for tax when I have not been working here? Obviously if I have been working here illegally they will not know about it. When they ask how did I support myself whilst here they can just look at my farang bank statements from Oz and see that I had plenty of money to live on, adding to that the $9,999 AUD cash that I brought over here as spending money before I came here.

Any way thanks for that info, it will give me time to prepair the necessary doccuments.................

well anyway you'll be gone soon so good ridance.

hopefully the changes will get rid if the rest of the <deleted> wasters like you that seem to litter the country.

if have that much dispodable money then why was one of your "excuses" for no WP the fact that you would get more money in hand?

waster

[wilko]

Well I am a foreigner working in Thailand and if a Thai company employes me and instructs me not to get a work permit, as far as im concerned, fine by me. Now, I only plan to be here 1 more year so all the hassel involved in getting a work permit would just be wasted after I leave and I dont have a degree so most likely, I would have no chance in getting a work permit anyway. And as far as my school is concerned, they know I do not have a degree so I have not lied to the to get the job and as far as the school being so called "raided" i doubt it, I work for a private mimi-bilingual school in the outer suburbs of bangkok, so I think im pretty safe for now. Visa wise, I have a 1 year Non - O so I am not one of the people who need to make visa runs every 30 days in order to stay here and i dont need to rely on my illegal employment to stay here, I have a lot of money but the only reason i teach is because I love teaching and helping others and besides that, there is not many other constructive things to do.

I shouldn't be so relaxed if I were you. Immigration have been going round schools in Bangkok and demanding to interview all teachers and see their credentials...including degree TEFL and permit.

There's meant to be a purge at the moment, which is putting it a bit strongly but there is certainly a lot more activity especially with bi-lingual schools.

As an unqualified, untrained and illegal teacher, you're probably doing more harm than good anyway.

[smartecosse]

but he loves teaching so apparently that means it ok

[Neeranam]

Well I am a foreigner working in Thailand and if a Thai company employes me and instructs me not to get a work permit, as far as im concerned, fine by me. Now, I only plan to be here 1 more year so all the hassel involved in getting a work permit would just be wasted after I leave and I dont have a degree so most likely, I would have no chance in getting a work permit anyway. And as far as my school is concerned, they know I do not have a degree so I have not lied to the to get the job and as far as the school being so called "raided" i doubt it, I work for a private mimi-bilingual school in the outer suburbs of bangkok, so I think im pretty safe for now. Visa wise, I have a 1 year Non - O so I am not one of the people who need to make visa runs every 30 days in order to stay here and i dont need to rely on my illegal employment to stay here, I have a lot of money but the only reason i teach is because I love teaching and helping others and besides that, there is not many other constructive things to do.

aussiestyle mate, good luck to you! It's an admirable thing you're doing - better than a lot of the 'legal' guys here. You're helping the Thai people and generally they don't mind you working without a permit.

As the farmer said, relax and take it easy! You won't get fined or deported.

[samran]

mmm.

helping Thai society by not paying income tax?

helping Thai society by working for a company who is probably illegally avoiding pay taxes on its profits.

Not to mention that they are a company that proably has no qualms exploting their workers.

All great lessons to be taught to Thai society.

And then you have the nerve to complain when things don't go your way.

Great one.

[wilko]

Well I am a foreigner working in Thailand and if a Thai company employes me and instructs me not to get a work permit, as far as im concerned, fine by me. Now, I only plan to be here 1 more year so all the hassel involved in getting a work permit would just be wasted after I leave and I dont have a degree so most likely, I would have no chance in getting a work permit anyway. And as far as my school is concerned, they know I do not have a degree so I have not lied to the to get the job and as far as the school being so called "raided" i doubt it, I work for a private mimi-bilingual school in the outer suburbs of bangkok, so I think im pretty safe for now. Visa wise, I have a 1 year Non - O so I am not one of the people who need to make visa runs every 30 days in order to stay here and i dont need to rely on my illegal employment to stay here, I have a lot of money but the only reason i teach is because I love teaching and helping others and besides that, there is not many other constructive things to do.

aussiestyle mate, good luck to you! It's an admirable thing you're doing - better than a lot of the 'legal' guys here. You're helping the Thai people and generally they don't mind you working without a permit.

As the farmer said, relax and take it easy! You won't get fined or deported.

After all the crap we've had about untrained unsuprvised, unchecked, teachers and this guy is doing "an admirable" thing?

He's the very type the govt should be weeding out.

[little bee]

Thank you for all your comment

I just think that maybe the school that aussiestyle he is working with could not afford to pay up to work permit standard.

And also he love to teach thai students to be able to speak and understand english which is more profit to thais anyway.

[Firefan]

There is no minimum salary limit to obtain a WP if a teacher....

[aussiestyle1983]

smartecosse or should I say smartass?

anyway, ill continue to do what i have been doing here regardless of what you and the other so called goodie goodie law up-holding citizens think or say, damm, you must be a perfect little angel if you look at some of the shit you say? have you ever broken a law or two? i guess not. sorry for being the same as most of the other teachers working here in thailand by not having a work permit..........and if my school asked me to apply for one, i would, but while my EMPLOYER tells me not to worry about it, guess what, i wont.

[toptuan]

..........and if my school asked me to apply for one, i would, but while my EMPLOYER tells me not to worry about it, guess what, i wont.

Hmmm. Conveniently "obey" your illegal under-the-table employer (because it keeps more baht in your pockets), or abide by the law of the land which is over both of you? What a twisted sense of logic.

[markg]

And no, not having a degree doesn't excuse you. You can get an English teaching job in any province of Thailand without a degree, so you're not the innocent rare exception.

Thats not quite true is it? We ve recently had WP knocked back in a southern province for no degree. Can you elaborate on your statement?

(it's not me by the way. I ve been legal for 3 years and am a paid up tax member and polisher of halos)

Edited October 4, 2006 by markg

[Ijustwannateach]

And no, not having a degree doesn't excuse you. You can get an English teaching job in any province of Thailand without a degree, so you're not the innocent rare exception.

Thats not quite true is it? We ve recently had WP knocked back in a southern province for no degree. Can you elaborate on your statement?

(it's not me by the way. I ve been legal for 3 years and am a paid up tax member and polisher of halos)

It is not *universally* true, but it is *situationally* true. There are a number teachers working legally with work permits without degrees, endorsed by their schools. It's a complicated question which has become something of a horse flogged long past death in the Teacher's Subforum.

I would repeat here what I've said elsewhere- your visa and work permit are ultimately your responsibility, and if you don't have them in order, it's your buns in the fire.

"Steven"

[markg]

It is not *universally* true, but it is *situationally* true. There are a number teachers working legally with work permits without degrees, endorsed by their schools. It's a complicated question which has become something of a horse flogged long past death in the Teacher's Subforum.

I would repeat here what I've said elsewhere- your visa and work permit are ultimately your responsibility, and if you don't have them in order, it's your buns in the fire.

"Steven"

Well steven that clarifies the statement a little. The reply i was making was because that poster was making out that its as easy as falling off a log. In my experience, not my own experiences i hasten to add, is that i dont know ANYONE working with a WP but no degree as a teacher.

Like you said, the degree thing has been flogged to death and i m not commenting on that any further.

I actually wanted further clarification as the teacher who had their WP knocked back is looking at doing a run to Penang to get another Type B. And they are significantly unimpressed at that. If the op had some info that would be useful to my colleague then i would like to hear it.

But to make sweeping generalisations about no degree/WP dont help anyone.

"MarkG"

[toptuan]

And no, not having a degree doesn't excuse you. You can get an English teaching job in any province of Thailand without a degree, so you're not the innocent rare exception.

Thats not quite true is it? We ve recently had WP knocked back in a southern province for no degree. Can you elaborate on your statement?

(it's not me by the way. I ve been legal for 3 years and am a paid up tax member and polisher of halos)

Sure, happy to: Every province has a handful of schools who will hire you just because you're white and speak English. No other qualifications required. Simple. Case closed.

Illustration: In my own case, I've been interviewed and hired twice at the college and university levels. Although I have all the degrees (Bachelor's & Masters) and the certificates (TEFL, teaching, etc.), no one has ever asked to look at my portfolio, transcripts, or any other proof of my stated qualifications. I spoke English, and I was white. Ergo. I was hired. (Yeah, makes you feel real valuable!)

Edited October 5, 2006 by toptuan

[wilko]

And no, not having a degree doesn't excuse you. You can get an English teaching job in any province of Thailand without a degree, so you're not the innocent rare exception.

Thats not quite true is it? We ve recently had WP knocked back in a southern province for no degree. Can you elaborate on your statement?

(it's not me by the way. I ve been legal for 3 years and am a paid up tax member and polisher of halos)

Sure, happy to: Every province has a handful of schools who will hire you just because you're white and speak English. No other qualifications required. Simple. Case closed.

Illustration: In my own case, I've been interviewed and hired twice at the college and university levels. Although I have all the degrees (Bachelor's & Masters) and the certificates (TEFL, teaching, etc.), no one has ever asked to look at my portfolio, transcripts, or any other proof of my stated qualifications. I spoke English, and I was white. Ergo. I was hired. (Yeah, makes you feel real valuable!)

And you received a work permit/teachers licence etc?

[toptuan]

Yes Just showed up at the Labor Dept. with my contract and letter of intent to hire from the school, and "bingo" -- work permit issued for the 3,100 baht fee. No other questions asked.

Of course, now you realize why it's so easy for the John Karrs of the world to infiltrate a prestigious international school in Bangkok and have direct contact with his potential victims. Under this system (or lack of system) the riff-raff which gets hired paints a bad picture/reputation that the rest of us have to fight constantly

Although I've had it easy, I really wish it wasn't that way. I sincerely wish someone had even taken a short peek at my more than 30 documents I brought to the interviews and government offices (immigration/labor).

Until Thailand takes responsibility for its children, we will have to continue to play this charade.

Edited October 5, 2006 by toptuan

[smartecosse]

smartecosse or should I say smartass?

anyway, ill continue to do what i have been doing here regardless of what you and the other so called goodie goodie law up-holding citizens think or say, damm, you must be a perfect little angel if you look at some of the shit you say? have you ever broken a law or two? i guess not. sorry for being the same as most of the other teachers working here in thailand by not having a work permit..........and if my school asked me to apply for one, i would, but while my EMPLOYER tells me not to worry about it, guess what, i wont.

well you can call me a smartass if you want but personally i think that if all the new rules get rid of the "element" of farangs here that seem to think that they do not need to follow the rules of the country that they are in then its a good thing.

my personal opinion is that people like you that cannot be bothered to do things correctly cause problems for the whole expat community and not just for yourselves. For your information

I am here legally with the correct visa

I do have a work permit

I do pay tax

I do pay social insurance

This means

I have spent money to get these things

I have less take home money each month than i would if i did i it your way

I hope you get cuaght and I hope that you have a horrible <deleted> time as you seem to think that as you are "doing if for the love of teaching" and not for money as you have "lots of it" then that justifies working illegally.

as far as trying to justify it by saying that its the same as most of the other teachers - thats pathetic

so why don't you either

stop working

get legal

or <deleted> off

[aussiestyle1983]

so why don't you either

stop working

get legal

or <deleted> off

Well, im working on getting legal as the language school i work for on the weekends is going to supply all the doccuments I need, the only problem i have with them and another reason for not applying for a work permit in the past is that if they get me a work permit they will keep my passport. I dont know the logic behind why they will only get me a work permit if i let them keep my passport. Personally, Id rather have my passport in my posession than have a work permit, but ifs that what ive gotta do to get a wp, then thats what ill do.

And just because a teacher is legal, doesnt make them a better asset for the school and Thailand. There are many alcoholics, drug users, partiers, sex tourists and so on that have work permits, but they are always late to work, taking sick days, working with hang overs, sleeping on the job and so on, so just because you have a WP dosent mean you are making a meaingful contribution to Thailand if you really a alcho or a sex tourist...............