Permanent Resident

[p_brownstone]

I like where you are going, Noise but I think the catch is in the wording of this 2009 document Supporting Thai citizen or being supported by Thai citizen

The title says it all (pardon the caps): IN THE CATEGORY OF SUPPORTING THAI CITIZEN OR BEING SUPPORTED BY THAI CITIZEN (HUSBAND-WIFE, FATHER-MOTHER, OR CHILDREN WHO IS UNDER 20 YEARS OF AGE AND SINGLE)

To be able to support someone you will need to prove income generated in Thainland.

You should have ended the sentence with the word income.

Why exactly?

"Income" per se is irrelevant, the main factor is the Tax (Tax in Thailand) that you pay on that income.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

Is there really... any advantage of applying for permanent residency .... Really seems like very little perks for the money paid out..

You can get into National Parks at 'local' price for starters..... ;-)

There are other advantages.

As a PR for over 40 years I really cannot think of any concrete advantage - I still cannot own Land in my own name, cannot Vote, still need a Work Permit (although mine is permanent and can be moved between Companies without hassle, a situation no longer possible).

OK, yes I can get into National Parks etc. at the Thai price - "Whoop De Doo" as our US cousins might say!

Patrick

[onthemoon]

Is there really... any advantage of applying for permanent residency .... Really seems like very little perks for the money paid out..

I think there is,

1. No more permit to stay, only report to nearest police station once a year

2. When retiring from work, the PR stays, although I don't know how it affects the +400 000 in a bank (I'm married with a Thai woman)

3. **** someone else who knows better han me can fill in the rest

1. You have to report to the police only every five years. If you miss that, you'll be fined (I think it's 20 Baht) .

2. You do not need any money in the account. To the contrary, you can buy a condo and get a mortgage from a Thai bank.

3. If you lose your job (if on business extension), or they change the law about retirement visa, or whatever, you can still stay in Thailand. That was my reason to get the PR.

4. If you are not married, you need to have PR for five years in order to apply for Thai citizenship. If that is what you want to do.

5. One perk I like: You don't need to bring your passport etc for official purposes (such as opening an account or renew your driving licence, for example) but only bring the pink ID card. That's convenient (albeit not the reason to apply for PR).

[ozyjon]

Why would you want to in the first place

[naiharn]

A question for Uboljoe or p_brownstone:

does a holder of PR still have to do 90-day reports?

Cheers

N

[p_brownstone]

A question for Uboljoe or p_brownstone:

does a holder of PR still have to do 90-day reports?

Cheers

N

No, no 90 Day Reports at all.

A PR Holder only has to renew his Alien Certificate at the local Police Station every 5 years at a cost of Baht 800.- and it takes about 5 minutes. Apart from that there is no need for any contact with Thai Officialdom at all unless one leaves the Country and then a Re-entry Permit is required.

I did once forget to renew on time but I can't recall if there was a fine - the only sanction I received was that I could only renew for one year as opposed to 5 years as usual, but at the next renewal I was again able to renew for 5 years.

For me the only real benefit is security - I do not need to worry about any change in my personal circumstances; for example those on an Visa extension based on marriage have to consider what will happen if they divorce, or their wife dies, those using an extension based on retirement may find that the amount of money required to be on Deposit in a Bank suddenly increases and is beyond their ability to meet etc. etc..

OK, of course the rules for PR may also be amended but there have been no changes for over 40 years so I think we're pretty safe!

Patrick

Edited November 4, 2015 by p_brownstone

[Michael Hare]

I renewed my PR in August. It didn't take 5 minutes like it used to. It took one hour in Ubon Ratchathani. This was because this time the policeman doing it said extra data had to put into the computer, new photos had to be pasted into the red-brown book etc etc. The real advantage of PR is that one can stay in Thailand for the rest of one's life (if you want to) and only pay report to the police station and pay 800 baht every 5 years.

One must get a re-entry visa when leaving Thailand and they are costly. I get a multi-entry visa once a year and it costs 5,700 baht. (3,800 baht for the visa into my passport and another 1,900 baht for the visa into the PR blue book). I got my last multi-entry visa in June and it took 2 hours to do because this time every thing had to be entered into the computer and the poiiceman doing it said it was very difficult and if he didn't get it right he would be in big trouble. It took 3 guys staring at the computer screen and backwards and forwards to the books to triple-check that every thing was entered correctly.

Having an ID card is also an advantage as it avoids carrying one's passport around every day. I am not sure about national parks though. I have only been to one once in the 11 years of having PR and at that time I didn't have a iD card. I showed my red-brown book and Thai drivers licence and they didn't help at all. I had to pay the "farang" price.

[Time Traveller]

Are you employed by a Thai company and paying Thai income tax ?

Is there a way to be employed by a Thai company and not paying Thai income tax ?

[oncearugge]

Are you employed by a Thai company and paying Thai income tax ?

Is there a way to be employed by a Thai company and not paying Thai income tax ?

Low income earners do not pay tax.

[Time Traveller]

I like where you are going, Noise but I think the catch is in the wording of this 2009 document Supporting Thai citizen or being supported by Thai citizen

The title says it all (pardon the caps): IN THE CATEGORY OF SUPPORTING THAI CITIZEN OR BEING SUPPORTED BY THAI CITIZEN (HUSBAND-WIFE, FATHER-MOTHER, OR CHILDREN WHO IS UNDER 20 YEARS OF AGE AND SINGLE)

To be able to support someone you will need to prove income generated in Thainland.

You should have ended the sentence with the word income.

Why exactly?

"Income" per se is irrelevant, the main factor is the Tax (Tax in Thailand) that you pay on that income.

Patrick

Wrong. Tax is not relevent. The salary from your job is. The points system is based entirely around income from wages/salary. Other income or taxes paid on that income don't count.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Time Traveller

[naiharn]

A question for Uboljoe or p_brownstone:

does a holder of PR still have to do 90-day reports?

Cheers

N

No, no 90 Day Reports at all.

A PR Holder only has to renew his Alien Certificate at the local Police Station every 5 years at a cost of Baht 800.- and it takes about 5 minutes. Apart from that there is no need for any contact with Thai Officialdom at all unless one leaves the Country and then a Re-entry Permit is required.

I did once forget to renew on time but I can't recall if there was a fine - the only sanction I received was that I could only renew for one year as opposed to 5 years as usual, but at the next renewal I was again able to renew for 5 years.

For me the only real benefit is security - I do not need to worry about any change in my personal circumstances; for example those on an Visa extension based on marriage have to consider what will happen if they divorce, or their wife dies, those using an extension based on retirement may find that the amount of money required to be on Deposit in a Bank suddenly increases and is beyond their ability to meet etc. etc..

OK, of course the rules for PR may also be amended but there have been no changes for over 40 years so I think we're pretty safe!

Patrick

Thanks for your info.

'

[Rhys]

Thanks for the insights... thus the score is all depends.. I will just go at it as I have... I have certain elements and requirements that have been listed by all the contributors.

I know, it is their neck of the woods and their game... I just find this not to my approval..

Moving on..

Cheers Mates

[scorecard]

I renewed my PR in August. It didn't take 5 minutes like it used to. It took one hour in Ubon Ratchathani. This was because this time the policeman doing it said extra data had to put into the computer, new photos had to be pasted into the red-brown book etc etc. The real advantage of PR is that one can stay in Thailand for the rest of one's life (if you want to) and only pay report to the police station and pay 800 baht every 5 years.

One must get a re-entry visa when leaving Thailand and they are costly. I get a multi-entry visa once a year and it costs 5,700 baht. (3,800 baht for the visa into my passport and another 1,900 baht for the visa into the PR blue book). I got my last multi-entry visa in June and it took 2 hours to do because this time every thing had to be entered into the computer and the poiiceman doing it said it was very difficult and if he didn't get it right he would be in big trouble. It took 3 guys staring at the computer screen and backwards and forwards to the books to triple-check that every thing was entered correctly.

Having an ID card is also an advantage as it avoids carrying one's passport around every day. I am not sure about national parks though. I have only been to one once in the 11 years of having PR and at that time I didn't have a iD card. I showed my red-brown book and Thai drivers licence and they didn't help at all. I had to pay the "farang" price.

"I renewed my PR in August." PR does not require renewal, never, for lifetime.

Do you mean you 'updated' your local police registration book (you mention a red/brown book)?

In regard to getting a plastic ID card (for PR holders); yes it does exist, the card format is exactly the same as a standard Thai ID card except the heading just down from the top says 'Permanent Resident'. They use the personal ID number for you which is showing in the tabien baan book.

All main amphur offices can accept your application for the PR plastic card (but your name must be on a Tabien Baan blue book for the same district) but many offices make various excuses to avoid trying to process your application. In some cases because the officer personally doesn't like the idea of foreigners having something which is 90% the same as Thai ID card.

I know from personal experience at my local amphur office (big regional office), the senior lady loudly insisted there was no such card even though I had the ministerial order in Thai and in English and a photocopy of two such cards (with the personal names blacked out). She told me and my adult Thai son, speaks reads and writes perfect Thai and English), who is well aware of this subject to leave. She also scolded my son (who is a respected professor) that he was rude to speak to me in English in front of her.

I went with my lawyer to the amphur office for Wattana in Bangkok to make further enquirers. The senior amphur officer, pleasant lady, perfect English, said: Yes it does exist and hey have processed the card many times for PR holders in Tabien Baan book for their district. She said they must complete an on-line application and to complete the registration they need to call a tel no at a main national office and the national office open up several on screen boxes for a limited time. After registration is completed the actual card is mailed to the PR holder, takes about 90 days.

Wattana amphur officer also mentioned that some smaller amphur offices are afraid of calling the national office to get the computer system opened.

Edited November 11, 2015 by scorecard

[THAIJAMES]

Scorecard, finally got my Blue Tabien Baan after 5 months of waiting.

I asked the local Chiang Mai office 5 months ago if a PR ID card was available and they were absolutely adamant that it does not exist.

Yesterday when I picked up my blue book, they now acknowledge that it exists but basically don't know how to go about doing it.

I saw some information about the steps required but I don't know where that thread or topic is any more.

So if you still have not gotten your PR ID you may want to try again, they are likely to be more receptive if you can provide them with more info. Then hopefully I can follow in your footsteps.

[scorecard]

Scorecard, finally got my Blue Tabien Baan after 5 months of waiting.

I asked the local Chiang Mai office 5 months ago if a PR ID card was available and they were absolutely adamant that it does not exist.

Yesterday when I picked up my blue book, they now acknowledge that it exists but basically don't know how to go about doing it.

I saw some information about the steps required but I don't know where that thread or topic is any more.

So if you still have not gotten your PR ID you may want to try again, they are likely to be more receptive if you can provide them with more info. Then hopefully I can follow in your footsteps.

Hi,

Good news, some progress.

I'll be out of CM for several weeks but I'll get the official regulations / instruction documents together and try again. But i'll get my lawyer in Bkk to call first, she's very aware of this whole 'saga', has all the info., very determined and doesn't get flicked easily, but always very polite.

I'll keep you informed.

By the way, any other CM PR holders had any recent success with getting the plastic card? Please share.

Edited November 11, 2015 by scorecard

[onthemoon]

Scorecard, finally got my Blue Tabien Baan after 5 months of waiting.

I asked the local Chiang Mai office 5 months ago if a PR ID card was available and they were absolutely adamant that it does not exist.

Yesterday when I picked up my blue book, they now acknowledge that it exists but basically don't know how to go about doing it.

I saw some information about the steps required but I don't know where that thread or topic is any more.

So if you still have not gotten your PR ID you may want to try again, they are likely to be more receptive if you can provide them with more info. Then hopefully I can follow in your footsteps.

Google for "non-thai id" and you'll find lots of information, including a thread on ThaiVisa where I got my information.

[THAIJAMES]

Thanks, I think I will wait until your lawyer makes some headway ! and if within a month or two no progress then I will go there personally again.

[scorecard]

Scorecard, finally got my Blue Tabien Baan after 5 months of waiting.

I asked the local Chiang Mai office 5 months ago if a PR ID card was available and they were absolutely adamant that it does not exist.

Yesterday when I picked up my blue book, they now acknowledge that it exists but basically don't know how to go about doing it.

I saw some information about the steps required but I don't know where that thread or topic is any more.

So if you still have not gotten your PR ID you may want to try again, they are likely to be more receptive if you can provide them with more info. Then hopefully I can follow in your footsteps.

Google for "non-thai id" and you'll find lots of information, including a thread on ThaiVisa where I got my information.

Dear on themoon,

Thanks, have you proceeded with getting the PR ID card? Are you in CM?

If too personal, sorry, please ignore.

[ParadiseLost]

Scorecard, finally got my Blue Tabien Baan after 5 months of waiting.

I asked the local Chiang Mai office 5 months ago if a PR ID card was available and they were absolutely adamant that it does not exist.

Yesterday when I picked up my blue book, they now acknowledge that it exists but basically don't know how to go about doing it.

I saw some information about the steps required but I don't know where that thread or topic is any more.

So if you still have not gotten your PR ID you may want to try again, they are likely to be more receptive if you can provide them with more info. Then hopefully I can follow in your footsteps.

Google for "non-thai id" and you'll find lots of information, including a thread on ThaiVisa where I got my information.

And this being Thailand you will also find 2,73 million matches as to where you can purchase said cards

[onthemoon]

Thanks, I think I will wait until your lawyer makes some headway ! and if within a month or two no progress then I will go there personally again.

What do you need a lawyer for? - It's all very straightforward, no need to sue the government!

[onthemoon]

Scorecard, finally got my Blue Tabien Baan after 5 months of waiting.

I asked the local Chiang Mai office 5 months ago if a PR ID card was available and they were absolutely adamant that it does not exist.

Yesterday when I picked up my blue book, they now acknowledge that it exists but basically don't know how to go about doing it.

I saw some information about the steps required but I don't know where that thread or topic is any more.

So if you still have not gotten your PR ID you may want to try again, they are likely to be more receptive if you can provide them with more info. Then hopefully I can follow in your footsteps.

Google for "non-thai id" and you'll find lots of information, including a thread on ThaiVisa where I got my information.

Dear on themoon,

Thanks, have you proceeded with getting the PR ID card? Are you in CM?

If too personal, sorry, please ignore.

No too personal, as it is all already published in this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/590057-thai-non-thai-id-card-for-permanent-residents/

That's the thread I meant. The needle in the haystack of 2.73 million results.

I have the PR ID card, but I got it in Bangkok not in CM. If you have a problem with your amphur or khet and they say there is no such thing as an ID card for PR holders, call to the Ministry of the Interior. The direct phone number of the officer in charge of the Pink ID card for PR holders is 02-791-7319. They are very friendly and helpful and will call back to the amphur and explain to them.

As usual, talking politely to the ministry officials will get you further - some people think that if they complain strongly it helps, but in fact it won't and will only close the door for others that might need to call that number.

[Maeklong]

I have had PR since 2004. I obtained my ID card in 2010 right after they were announced as available.

It was the first one issued in Samutsongkhram (number xxxx-0000001), by the local amphur office that issues standard ID cards to Thai nationals. They had no knowledge about the existence of the cards when I went, but a call to a Thai relative who worked as an auditor in the land department, and who knew of their existence started the ball rolling. A couple of phone calls to a central government office in BKK later, they got it done. They didn't care about PR documents, they only needed my house registration. They didn't have one of the cards on hand, but once personal information was entered into the computer, and a photo was taken, they asked for an address, and the card was mailed to me.

The card is pink, basically the old Thai ID card before the government changed to the new blue cards with smart chips. Translating the card's title, it is basically "Personal ID for a person that does not have Thai Citizenship". It is valid for 10 years.

The notices printed on the back say:

"This card is not a Thai National ID card"

"This card should be carried at all times as proof of ID when checked" (by police, for example).

Finally it says that

"this card is forbidden to be used outside of the jurisdiction where it was issued."

This last statement concerns me a bit, but being an official government issued card, I don't think it would be refused as proof of ID by any policeman anywhere in the country.

I might add that when I retired at the end of 2014, I took over ownership of my company car, and during the process of having ownership transferred at the Chatuchak Transport Division office in BKK, at the final stage they asked for photo ID with proof of residence (not a driver's license). A Thai would have just shown a National ID card. They wanted to see my red resident alien book issued by the local police (which I did not expect to need and was not carrying). Luckily I was able to use my ID card with photo as proof of my address instead of the red book. The clerk had never seen one before, and looked at it with some doubt, but after checking with a superior, accepted it.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Maeklong