Niwatthamrong defends Ms Yingluck over rice pledging scheme

[Baerboxer]

Who said 500Billion were lost, no, they disappeared in the wrong pockets, but borrowed for sure, and the taxpayers will have to pay back every penny of it...!

Maybe but not you, but there are plenty in here screaming periodically that the accusation is that 500bn was stolen.

There isn't even an accusation that it ended up in the wrong pockets. Some went to farmers, some went to trucks, warehousing, fumigation, shipping etc etc.

It was, as well you know, touted as a self financing scheme and deliberately kept off budget, so avoiding parliamentary scrutiny.

The World Bank estimated 4% actually went to farmers. All she or her minions need to do is produce actual audited certified accounts that show where the other 96% went. Simple. Oh, and perhaps she should explain how not attending the meetings she was supposed to chair, and ignoring all warnings, was not negligent.

Then she's home free - if she can do it of course.

[Baerboxer]

If Yingluck's party was still in office, some of the farmers would still be waiting for their money...

Yes we all know that, because the banks were forbidden to allow the Yingluck government access to the money to pay them. As soon as she was got rid of, the junta instructed the banks to pay out. So please do not expect all of us to be so naive as yourself in this matter.

What is naive about obeying the laws of the country?

NO caretaker government of any colour is allowed to borrow money to support any program whilst they are merely caretaking.

The reason is that they may NOT be re-elected and then the incoming government of whatever colour would be responsible for and HAVE to repay the debt that was incurred by the previous government.

Do you not understand the rule of law or are you happy that an outgoing government of whatever colour can rack up trillions of baht of debts, spend it on whatever they want, even to the extent of emptying the Treasury, and just walk away without a care in the world?

That has been explained to him many times. As is the fact that PTP stopped paying way before the protests started over the crooked amnesty bill, way before Yingluck dissolved parliament and compounded things by failing to get loans before. PTP ran out of cash, they gorged the trough dry. Their hope was to get their hands on the 2.2 trillion, off budget, out of scrutiny and non transparent loan. Then they could've paid off the farmers, all the hangers on and satisfied their own greed.

He knows, he just prefers to trot one of the old lies out.

[Baerboxer]

Thank you for having ethics and courage

Nice use of sarcasm

lol nice try... he is obviously a man of principal and courage to point out that the scheme was FULLY agreed and it's not at all unusual for a government to subsidize farmers as they do in the EU and US etc.

This is NOT about RICE

Nice to see someone stand up and be counted in these Dark Days

It would be unusual in the EU or US to take it off budget, claim it's self financing and refuse to provide any accounts. It would be most unusual there for Committe chairs to never attend any meetings, for all warning of irregularities to be ignored or treated with contempt and for bogus export deals to be uncovered.

Not about rice - but about creating a vote catching scheme and turning it into a slush fund through lies and smoke and mirror accounting.

You seriously think any politician, especially one who receives payment from a criminal to do as told, is ethical and courageous?

Says a lot about your own qualities.

[candide]

Who said 500Billion were lost, no, they disappeared in the wrong pockets, but borrowed for sure, and the taxpayers will have to pay back every penny of it...!

Maybe but not you, but there are plenty in here screaming periodically that the accusation is that 500bn was stolen.

There isn't even an accusation that it ended up in the wrong pockets. Some went to farmers, some went to trucks, warehousing, fumigation, shipping etc etc.

It was, as well you know, touted as a self financing scheme and deliberately kept off budget, so avoiding parliamentary scrutiny.

The World Bank estimated 4% actually went to farmers. All she or her minions need to do is produce actual audited certified accounts that show where the other 96% went. Simple. Oh, and perhaps she should explain how not attending the meetings she was supposed to chair, and ignoring all warnings, was not negligent.

Then she's home free - if she can do it of course.

Another tentative (but failed) disinformation.

The World Bank never wrote that only 4% actually went to farmers. It wrote only 4% went to the specific category of "poor farmers".

The main reason given is that the poor farmers mainly grow rice for their own consumption and seldom sell it.

[Thai at Heart]

Who said 500Billion were lost, no, they disappeared in the wrong pockets, but borrowed for sure, and the taxpayers will have to pay back every penny of it...!

Maybe but not you, but there are plenty in here screaming periodically that the accusation is that 500bn was stolen.

There isn't even an accusation that it ended up in the wrong pockets. Some went to farmers, some went to trucks, warehousing, fumigation, shipping etc etc.

It was, as well you know, touted as a self financing scheme and deliberately kept off budget, so avoiding parliamentary scrutiny.

The World Bank estimated 4% actually went to farmers. All she or her minions need to do is produce actual audited certified accounts that show where the other 96% went. Simple. Oh, and perhaps she should explain how not attending the meetings she was supposed to chair, and ignoring all warnings, was not negligent.

Then she's home free - if she can do it of course.

It's gone to warehouses and the such. You think if there was a hole the size of 500bn unaccounted they would be holding off prosecuting people and her for theft as opposed to negligence.

Or are they holding that one back for later?

[tomacht8]

If someone is in power in Thailand, they have power and access to 90% of the taxpayers' money.

Unfortunately, there is no independent, strong thai control committee, where the funds are really flowed out.

[halloween]

Another tentative (but failed) disinformation.

The World Bank never wrote that only 4% actually went to farmers. It wrote only 4% went to the specific category of "poor farmers".

The main reason given is that the poor farmers mainly grow rice for their own consumption and seldom sell it.

If poor farmers don't sell their rice, why did the PTP government promote a price boosting scheme to increase their income? That was the stated intent, and by your claim, an obvious lie.

Would not modifying a scheme that was a 96% waste of money not be mismanagement?

[candide]

Another tentative (but failed) disinformation.

The World Bank never wrote that only 4% actually went to farmers. It wrote only 4% went to the specific category of "poor farmers".

The main reason given is that the poor farmers mainly grow rice for their own consumption and seldom sell it.

If poor farmers don't sell their rice, why did the PTP government promote a price boosting scheme to increase their income? That was the stated intent, and by your claim, an obvious lie.

Would not modifying a scheme that was a 96% waste of money not be mismanagement?

The choice made was to subsidize rice sold. So it's not surprising that the farmers who sell more rice get more than the ones who sell only a little rice.

Other choices could have been made, and I personnaly think that there could have been better ways to spend this money (in particular after knowing now the market price of rice during previous years).

Nevertheless it remains that the continuous allegations of the anti-shins squad that the money went massively into the wrong pokets (i.e. the Shins, PTP politicians, etc...) are groundless.

[webfact]

RICE PLEDGING SCHEME
Yingluck committed no wrongdoing : ex-minister
PETCHANET PRATRUANGKRAI
THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- FORMER COMMERCE minister Niwattumrong Boonsongpaisan has testified before a government committee that former prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra did not commit wrongdoing in the rice-pledging scheme despite an estimated "loss" of Bt600 billion in taxpayers' money as alleged by the government.

Niwattumrong also handed over several hundred pages of documents to the committee detailing the rice-subsidy programme, which he said was executed in accordance with a 2003 Royal Decree.

He argued that the programme was good for the economy, resulting in increased tax revenue and higher incomes for farmers.

The former commerce minister is one of the defence witnesses in a civil compensation case being prepared by the government in which Yingluck stands accused of causing severe financial damage to the state as a result of implementing the farmer-subsidy programme.

Niwattumrong also argued that the programme did not take into account profits and losses, since it was a subsidy policy promoted during an election campaign. He said more than 10 government agencies were involved in the programme and none of them voiced opposition.

In addition, the National Economic and Social Development Board and Budget Bureau did not raised any objections either, he said, adding that both agencies were empowered to do so.

However, he said, non-government organisations or independent think-tanks such as Thailand Research and Development Institute were not authorised by law to oppose government programmes, even though the TDRI was the leading critic of this scheme, suggesting it would cause more damage than benefits.

Niwattumrong said the subsidy programme had contributed Bt350 billion to Bt700 billion to the economy during its lifetime, while farmers benefited from combined income of Bt140 billion per year thanks to the high price of rice pledged with the government at Bt15,000 per tonne.

He also said the government's tax collection was increased by Bt100 billion because of the implementation of this programme.

The former commerce minister said Yingluck as prime minister implemented measures to prevent fraud and corruption in this scheme and the current government should punish wrongdoers on a case-by-case basis.

At its peak, the government's rice inventories shot up to a total of 18 million tonnes after buying up the rice from farmers at a price much higher than the world market, allegedly resulting in a huge cost to taxpayers. Over the years, about 6 million tonnes have sold into the market, raising about Bt70 billion, and the overall cost is estimated at around Bt600 billion.

In addition, the rice-trading mechanism was distorted, resulting in negative consequences on exports, according to the programme's critics.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Yingluck-committed-no-wrongdoing-ex-minister-30272584.html


-- The Nation 2015-11-10

[slapout]

The figure quoted as presently and continuing monthly cost on this boon doggle is over 1 billion baht a month, for fumingation, storage of rotten rice included, insurance, etc????

He also forgot the price paid by AG bank worked out to near 30,000 baht a ton for paddy, which middlemen then took possession of and were allowed a 5% loss in transport , and of course milling losses followed. The Ag bank indicated that 40 million tons of rice was handled, when they requested additional funding. This figure is more rice volume than Thailand ever has or is capable of producing in the specified time frame.

Financially break every one of those involved, jail them and if and when they come out of jail via parole or whatever, require they serve as motorcycle taxies delivering messages for 12 hour per day, 5 days a week.

[LannaGuy]

Thank you for having ethics and courage

Nice use of sarcasm

lol nice try... he is obviously a man of principal and courage to point out that the scheme was FULLY agreed and it's not at all unusual for a government to subsidize farmers as they do in the EU and US etc.

This is NOT about RICE

Nice to see someone stand up and be counted in these Dark Days

And you try, again, to make sure that the punters don't see the real reason why she is on trial.

You should be shamed, your ethics are seriously wanting, but that's become very very obvious already.

I cannot believe anyone, even you, with a basic education and SOME reasoning and analytical skills could possibly believe this is not politically motivated

wow just wow

PS you probably also believe it's 'perfectly normal' for 2 out of 3 suspects to die in Army custody right? Elvis alive? Bigfoot? what about the Man in the Moon?

Edited November 10, 2015 by LannaGuy

[Tatsujin]

If Yingluck's party was still in office, some of the farmers would still be waiting for their money...

Yes we all know that, because the banks were forbidden to allow the Yingluck government access to the money to pay them. As soon as she was got rid of, the junta instructed the banks to pay out. So please do not expect all of us to be so naive as yourself in this matter.

You mean those extra, extra, extra loans they kept asking for and were refused eventually, after supposedly having fully pre-funded the entire scheme before it even started?

I guess when that big ol' gravy train starts a'rolling, it's hard to stop asking for more ...

Worth noting that the PTP Government failed to secure full funding for this scheme prior to becoming a "caretaker" Government, after which point, the banks were not allowed by law to give them further additional funding. That was yet another failure on Yingluck's/PTP's part, not on any junta or other 3rd party.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Tatsujin

[kennw]

Anyone who has driven from Bangkok through the north - east will be amazed at the money that has been spent on expansion of many rice mills. No prize for guessing where the money may have come from.

[LannaGuy]

If Yingluck's party was still in office, some of the farmers would still be waiting for their money...

Yes we all know that, because the banks were forbidden to allow the Yingluck government access to the money to pay them. As soon as she was got rid of, the junta instructed the banks to pay out. So please do not expect all of us to be so naive as yourself in this matter.

You mean those extra, extra, extra loans they kept asking for and were refused eventually, after supposedly having fully pre-funded the entire scheme before it even started?

I guess when that big ol' gravy train starts a'rolling, it's hard to stop asking for more ...

Worth noting that the PTP Government failed to secure full funding for this scheme prior to becoming a "caretaker" Government, after which point, the banks were not allowed by law to give them further additional funding. That was yet another failure on Yingluck's/PTP's part, not on any junta or other 3rd party.

you need to read up more the banks open their coffers when the guys with the guns, you know the ones you support, took over the country

[scorecard]

Another tentative (but failed) disinformation.

The World Bank never wrote that only 4% actually went to farmers. It wrote only 4% went to the specific category of "poor farmers".

The main reason given is that the poor farmers mainly grow rice for their own consumption and seldom sell it.

If poor farmers don't sell their rice, why did the PTP government promote a price boosting scheme to increase their income? That was the stated intent, and by your claim, an obvious lie.

Would not modifying a scheme that was a 96% waste of money not be mismanagement?

The choice made was to subsidize rice sold. So it's not surprising that the farmers who sell more rice get more than the ones who sell only a little rice.

Other choices could have been made, and I personnaly think that there could have been better ways to spend this money (in particular after knowing now the market price of rice during previous years).

Nevertheless it remains that the continuous allegations of the anti-shins squad that the money went massively into the wrong pokets (i.e. the Shins, PTP politicians, etc...) are groundless.

And you, not surprisingly, joins the ranks of the red leaners who are trying desperately to kill / to avoid and discussion or comment on the reason why she's being investigated - criminal dereliction of duty.

Side note - when will Chalerm give 'evidence'? (I put 'evidence' because given his past long-term track record I can't imagine he knows anything about this case and I suspect he's just go for his waffling, bullying and threatening stuff.)

[scorecard]

If Yingluck's party was still in office, some of the farmers would still be waiting for their money...

Yes we all know that, because the banks were forbidden to allow the Yingluck government access to the money to pay them. As soon as she was got rid of, the junta instructed the banks to pay out. So please do not expect all of us to be so naive as yourself in this matter.

You mean those extra, extra, extra loans they kept asking for and were refused eventually, after supposedly having fully pre-funded the entire scheme before it even started?

I guess when that big ol' gravy train starts a'rolling, it's hard to stop asking for more ...

Worth noting that the PTP Government failed to secure full funding for this scheme prior to becoming a "caretaker" Government, after which point, the banks were not allowed by law to give them further additional funding. That was yet another failure on Yingluck's/PTP's part, not on any junta or other 3rd party.

you need to read up more the banks open their coffers when the guys with the guns, you know the ones you support, took over the country

And again you try to ignore / divert from the real subject. I guess it keeps your silly post count up.

[Tatsujin]

If Yingluck's party was still in office, some of the farmers would still be waiting for their money...

Yes we all know that, because the banks were forbidden to allow the Yingluck government access to the money to pay them. As soon as she was got rid of, the junta instructed the banks to pay out. So please do not expect all of us to be so naive as yourself in this matter.

You mean those extra, extra, extra loans they kept asking for and were refused eventually, after supposedly having fully pre-funded the entire scheme before it even started?

I guess when that big ol' gravy train starts a'rolling, it's hard to stop asking for more ...

Worth noting that the PTP Government failed to secure full funding for this scheme prior to becoming a "caretaker" Government, after which point, the banks were not allowed by law to give them further additional funding. That was yet another failure on Yingluck's/PTP's part, not on any junta or other 3rd party.

you need to read up more the banks open their coffers when the guys with the guns, you know the ones you support, took over the country

Firstly, don't put words in my mouth, I don't support the current Military Govt, I do support "some" (very few) of the actions they have taken however.

Secondly, if you yourself took those rose-tinted glasses off your face, you'd also be able to read and learn that what I wrote was the truth, however hard that may be for you to accept.

The PTP/Yingluck Govt, completely screwed up this rice scheme, they were warned of the effects it would have, and they continued on regardless, deliberately keeping the entire "scam" off the books (effectively), resulting in increased paddy rental costs, increased transportation, storage, milling costs, etc etc. The net effect being that the "poor" rice farmers were helped very little, whilst everyone else on upwards creamed a ton of cash. I'll add to this also the very cynical use of massive discounts/incentives for homes and cars, purely aimed at getting everyone further into debt and more controllable (the effects of which we are seeing now), whilst making the countries' financial health appear better to the outside world.

But hey, if you want to continue on believing that the Shinwatra's are the white knights of the poor and downtrodden, and only have their best interests at heart, well, that's your prerogative. Personally I think they are the lowest of the low lying thieving pond life bloodsucking scum. But each to their own.

[nahkit]

"farmers throughout the country earned 140 billion baht/year from their rice crops."

"On top of that, he claimed that farmers’ spending from their increased earnings had generated an addition of 350 -357 billion baht/annum"

The man is a maths wizard.

[LannaGuy]

Firstly, don't put words in my mouth, I don't support the current Military Govt, I do support "some" (very few) of the actions they have taken however.

Secondly, if you yourself took those rose-tinted glasses off your face, you'd also be able to read and learn that what I wrote was the truth, however hard that may be for you to accept.

The PTP/Yingluck Govt, completely screwed up this rice scheme, they were warned of the effects it would have, and they continued on regardless, deliberately keeping the entire "scam" off the books (effectively), resulting in increased paddy rental costs, increased transportation, storage, milling costs, etc etc. The net effect being that the "poor" rice farmers were helped very little, whilst everyone else on upwards creamed a ton of cash. I'll add to this also the very cynical use of massive discounts/incentives for homes and cars, purely aimed at getting everyone further into debt and more controllable (the effects of which we are seeing now), whilst making the countries' financial health appear better to the outside world.

But hey, if you want to continue on believing that the Shinwatra's are the white knights of the poor and downtrodden, and only have their best interests at heart, well, that's your prerogative. Personally I think they are the lowest of the low lying thieving pond life bloodsucking scum. But each to their own.

Firstly, don't put words into my mouth, I don't support the Shins although I don't believe everything they did or said was wrong

Secondly, if you take off your rose-tinted Junta glasses you'd be able to reason and evaluate the nonsense you posted

The PTP mis-managed the Rice Scheme as governments mis-manage many things all over the world but I don't believe they were corrupt or not well-intentioned.

But hey, if you want to continue to think like a kindergarten attendee that's up-to-you but THINK, just for s split second, because some of us are not Junta Supporters does not make us Shin Supporters. Personally I think you are the victim of the Junta Propaganda but each to their own.

[LannaGuy]

And again you try to ignore / divert from the real subject. I guess it keeps your silly post count up.

Not at all - I was replying to the poster. I have posted how I admire this guy for his integrity and honesty which is BANG ON the real subject. Nice try but you always try your old smoke screen Junta-Lovin' tricks to cut down real debate.

[hugh2121]

And as always the main point is ignored.

Seems to me that this is the main point.............

B.E. 2546 Royal Decree about good national administration which stipulates that assessment of the worthiness of a public project which is of public interest must taken into account the overall benefits of the project rather than the issue of profit and loss.

He insisted that both the National Economic and Social Development Board and the Budget Bureau had assessed the rice pledging project and found it to be worthy of implementation.

[hugh2121]

Thank you for having ethics and courage

Nice use of sarcasm

lol nice try... he is obviously a man of principal and courage to point out that the scheme was FULLY agreed and it's not at all unusual for a government to subsidize farmers as they do in the EU and US etc.

This is NOT about RICE

Nice to see someone stand up and be counted in these Dark Days

Did anyone in his sound mind not expect him to come up for Yingluck? A Shins' pawn, a former commerce min. and dep. PM, in Yingluck's 'government', who was in the first row to witness the cataclysm, to 'probably'(see what the Courts will say) participate in the scam, and when/if he had not his arm deep in the honeyjar(?), then at least helped covering up some 're-distribution of wealth', not to any of the poor farmers I mean, the, fake 'G-to-G' rice sales f.i. ... So isn't it 'normal' for him to lie, cheat, deny, turn, twist? When you are able to call him: 'obviously a man of principal and courage', my guess is you're doing the exact same, except it does not make you rich(er), and we didn't expect anything else from you either!

Politicians the world over are concerned only for themselves. Why all this hate toward a party of politicians who were legally elected to govern Thailand? I don't particularly care what Yingluck or Thaksin did or didn't do. Were they any worse than Sutthep? or politicians from Europe, USA or wherever? I doubt it.

[Pimay1]

Nice use of sarcasm

lol nice try... he is obviously a man of principal and courage to point out that the scheme was FULLY agreed and it's not at all unusual for a government to subsidize farmers as they do in the EU and US etc.

This is NOT about RICE

Nice to see someone stand up and be counted in these Dark Days

Did anyone in his sound mind not expect him to come up for Yingluck? A Shins' pawn, a former commerce min. and dep. PM, in Yingluck's 'government', who was in the first row to witness the cataclysm, to 'probably'(see what the Courts will say) participate in the scam, and when/if he had not his arm deep in the honeyjar(?), then at least helped covering up some 're-distribution of wealth', not to any of the poor farmers I mean, the, fake 'G-to-G' rice sales f.i. ... So isn't it 'normal' for him to lie, cheat, deny, turn, twist? When you are able to call him: 'obviously a man of principal and courage', my guess is you're doing the exact same, except it does not make you rich(er), and we didn't expect anything else from you either!

Politicians the world over are concerned only for themselves. Why all this hate toward a party of politicians who were legally elected to govern Thailand? I don't particularly care what Yingluck or Thaksin did or didn't do. Were they any worse than Sutthep? or politicians from Europe, USA or wherever? I doubt it.

Original post deleted due to too many posts. But, but, but Suthep, politicians from Europe, USA or whatever do it so it is ok for Yingluck to do it. Try using that as a defense if you rob a bank.

[elgordo38]

If the farmers earned a lot of money from the scheme,why are they

still up to their eyes in debt,the people who did benefit,middle men,

rice mills,and warehouses did very nicely,thank you,even now the

cost to store the millions of tons still in stock,must be tremendous.

regards worgeordie

The producer and consumer of a product never make/save money the middle man milks it all as you state. Rice is no exception its in all commodities watch the film "Black Gold" sometime on coffee growing. Farmers well they sow the seeds of their own destruction. In a good crop year they rush out and buy the new truck and all the other fancy gadgets being waved in their face and a trip to the bank or local loan shark to finance the difference is usually the case. When a bad year comes they cry to the government "foul" and visit the loan shark once again. You reap what you sow. I am not a religious person but as the bible says there will be 7 fat years and 7 lean years so plan accordingly. Farming at the best of times is at the whims of mother nature. Good money management is not a strong suit here as they live for today. I am trying to educate my g/f to plan her life and watch out for the land mines mainly family looking to "borrow" money that ends up being a gift.

[hugh2121]

But, but, but. Nobody robbed a bank. Analogy invalid. Nobody said it was ok for anyone. How many US politicians are prosecuted for negligence, even for starting a war in Iraq based on lies?(WMD) Lies which resulted in many deaths and loads of money. How many British politicians were prosecuted for the expenses scandal? This seems to be simply a witch hunt to me to pave the way for the preferred next government, if there is to be one.

[LannaGuy]

But, but, but. Nobody robbed a bank. Analogy invalid. Nobody said it was ok for anyone. How many US politicians are prosecuted for negligence, even for starting a war in Iraq based on lies?(WMD) Lies which resulted in many deaths and loads of money. How many British politicians were prosecuted for the expenses scandal? This seems to be simply a witch hunt to me to pave the way for the preferred next government, if there is to be one.

this is THE point that even my 12 year old niece 'get's' she said

"Uncle no one believes that this is about rice right?" I replied "Lan Sow unfortunately some farang posters DO actually believe it" we both sat there and pondered "how could this be"? then we went off for ice cream which seemed like the best thing to do to cool down

[scorecard]

If Yingluck's party was still in office, some of the farmers would still be waiting for their money...

Yes we all know that, because the banks were forbidden to allow the Yingluck government access to the money to pay them. As soon as she was got rid of, the junta instructed the banks to pay out. So please do not expect all of us to be so naive as yourself in this matter.

The master of twist, and lacking in truth, and very misleading, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[billd766]

Who said 500Billion were lost, no, they disappeared in the wrong pockets, but borrowed for sure, and the taxpayers will have to pay back every penny of it...!

Maybe but not you, but there are plenty in here screaming periodically that the accusation is that 500bn was stolen.

There isn't even an accusation that it ended up in the wrong pockets. Some went to farmers, some went to trucks, warehousing, fumigation, shipping etc etc.

It was, as well you know, touted as a self financing scheme and deliberately kept off budget, so avoiding parliamentary scrutiny.

The World Bank estimated 4% actually went to farmers. All she or her minions need to do is produce actual audited certified accounts that show where the other 96% went. Simple. Oh, and perhaps she should explain how not attending the meetings she was supposed to chair, and ignoring all warnings, was not negligent.

Then she's home free - if she can do it of course.

Another tentative (but failed) disinformation.

The World Bank never wrote that only 4% actually went to farmers. It wrote only 4% went to the specific category of "poor farmers".

The main reason given is that the poor farmers mainly grow rice for their own consumption and seldom sell it.

But that was who the scheme was aimed at, wasn't? The poor farmers and NOT the rich ones, NOT the millers, the storage people or the transport companies. The ones who believed and trusted the PTP.

[Baerboxer]

Another tentative (but failed) disinformation.

The World Bank never wrote that only 4% actually went to farmers. It wrote only 4% went to the specific category of "poor farmers".

The main reason given is that the poor farmers mainly grow rice for their own consumption and seldom sell it.

The poorest farmers were excluded from the scheme.

If 4% went to "poor farmers" who weren't the poorest and managed to qualify for the scheme, but were the poorest included, who got the remaining 96%?

Do you think a scheme touted as benefiting poor farmers, that actually excluded the poorest, and then only spent 4% of the money on the poorest included was good? A scheme that offers no explanation of where the other 96% went.

Or did rich farmers, landowners, seed and fertilizer companies, millers, haulage contractors and warehouse owners become even richer?

Any thoughts on that 96% - because PTP have never divulged where it went.

[Baerboxer]

But, but, but. Nobody robbed a bank. Analogy invalid. Nobody said it was ok for anyone. How many US politicians are prosecuted for negligence, even for starting a war in Iraq based on lies?(WMD) Lies which resulted in many deaths and loads of money. How many British politicians were prosecuted for the expenses scandal? This seems to be simply a witch hunt to me to pave the way for the preferred next government, if there is to be one.

this is THE point that even my 12 year old niece 'get's' she said

"Uncle no one believes that this is about rice right?" I replied "Lan Sow unfortunately some farang posters DO actually believe it" we both sat there and pondered "how could this be"? then we went off for ice cream which seemed like the best thing to do to cool down

And did you explain, over your choc chip, that evil corrupt politicians had invented a super scam, cunningly hidden as a rice support scheme, to solicit votes and create a nice slush fund which they could dip into?

Did you explain how international bodies had warned of the dangers; how internal people had been persecuted for daring to speak out?

Did you explain how Ministers lied, some who even claimed lying was ethical and o k behavior?

Did you explain how some farang posters try to divert from the real issues, like how the chair was negligent in never bothering to attend any meetings or deal with the issues brought to her attention; or why no accounts have ever been produced?

Did you explain about fictitious G2G deals, for which some are now being prosecuted?

Did you explain how some farang posters pretend this is all "political" in an attempt to divert attention from reality?

No - thought not.