Teaching waivers - Who is actually being turned down?

[Mencken]

I'm curious, precisely who is having issues obtaining waivers?

When we hear or read about concern over a teacher obtaining 2+ waivers, especially 3,4,10...who is being frozen out?

Have you or do you know of anyone first hand WITH A BA/S DEGREE who has been turned down for subsequent waivers?

My hunch is if you have a degree from US or UK (from a school a person can easily Google) and your school has a bit of pull - the waivers will come, forever.

But, the further you get away from this, the more critically Khrusapa looks at the app.

Especially the degree...I think no degree for 2nd 3rd waiver can be an issue. We never see people state their credentials when they worry online.

Curious

[thesetat2013]

I don't know their rules and guidelines but I can tell you that after 3 years at teaching done at some of the best private and public Thai schools and with excellent references from them yet, my waiver got refused when K looked online and saw that my university was no longer listed as an accredited school. It was my 3rd app for a waiver. I don't teach anymore because of this.

Edited November 15, 2015 by thesetat2013

[smotherb]

I don't know their rules and guidelines but I can tell you that after 3 years at teaching done at some of the best private and public Thai schools and with excellent references from them yet, my waiver got refused when K looked online and saw that my university was no longer listed as an accredited school. It was my 3rd app for a waiver. I don't teach anymore because of this.

Several nights ago, I had a few beers with two long-time NES teachers here and we discussed this very subject. Neither of them had a degree and both thought they could teach here even without a work permit.

It will be interesting to see if they are still here in the next few years.

[mikecat]

Khrusapa are so incompetant that their records regarding waivers are a shambles. The rules and decisions change from day to day and every second person there will tell you something different. I have met people with degrees who have been rejected for a second waiver and people without degrees on their third. I have seen perfectly competant teachers being rejected for a waiver and some other morons get waivers. Sadly this is the state of the Thai education system today.

[nithisa78]

Khrusapa are so incompetant that their records regarding waivers are a shambles. The rules and decisions change from day to day and every second person there will tell you something different. I have met people with degrees who have been rejected for a second waiver and people without degrees on their third. I have seen perfectly competant teachers being rejected for a waiver and some other morons get waivers. Sadly this is the state of the Thai education system today.

morons -you're just projecting. ungrateful as you are.

[otherstuff1957]

Khrusapa are so incompetant that their records regarding waivers are a shambles. The rules and decisions change from day to day and every second person there will tell you something different. I have met people with degrees who have been rejected for a second waiver and people without degrees on their third. I have seen perfectly competant teachers being rejected for a waiver and some other morons get waivers. Sadly this is the state of the Thai education system today.

I think that this post sums up the situation perfectly.

[Too]

Khrusapa are so incompetant that their records regarding waivers are a shambles. The rules and decisions change from day to day and every second person there will tell you something different. I have met people with degrees who have been rejected for a second waiver and people without degrees on their third. I have seen perfectly competant teachers being rejected for a waiver and some other morons get waivers. Sadly this is the state of the Thai education system today.

I think that this post sums up the situation perfectly.

Exactly. It doesn't seem like anybody knows the truth.

My university is on the list and I might move to another

school next year, when I'll have to go for the 2nd waiver.

I'll see what happens.

http://203.21.42.34/acc/search/internew/maininter.html

[samsensam]

surely you need a degree in education, PGCE, CELTA, DELTA or equivalent to teach?

it would be sound common sense to refuse someone applying to be a teacher on the basis they had 'a degree'. it's a step in the right direction.

would you use a dentist, doctor, lawyer or engineer simply because they had 'a degree' and/or been doing the job for a while?

Edited November 16, 2015 by samsensam

[bwpage3]

When you have a hard time getting a job teaching in one of the most uneducated places in Asia, why in the world wouldn't you think about moving home or doing something else?

Honestly, with the low pay of teachers in Thailand, the lack of respect, work permit/VISA and everything else, it is hard to believe that for some people this is all the life they can muster?

I have always questioned people that would move to Thailand and work for less than 30,000 a month, unless they had absolutely zero skill in their own country.

Teaching experience in Thailand is pretty much worthless in the rest of the civilized world.

[BruceMangosteen]

When you have a hard time getting a job teaching in one of the most uneducated places in Asia, why in the world wouldn't you think about moving home or doing something else?

Honestly, with the low pay of teachers in Thailand, the lack of respect, work permit/VISA and everything else, it is hard to believe that for some people this is all the life they can muster?

I have always questioned people that would move to Thailand and work for less than 30,000 a month, unless they had absolutely zero skill in their own country.

Teaching experience in Thailand is pretty much worthless in the rest of the civilized world.

Most males come for the women. I don't mean the students, but those available online and in farang bars. Your post also doesn't limit or take into account those who come from countries such as the Philippines where teachers earn a third or less than what Thai schools pay.

[Loaded]

surely you need a degree in education, PGCE, CELTA, DELTA or equivalent to teach?

it would be sound common sense to refuse someone applying to be a teacher on the basis they had 'a degree'. it's a step in the right direction.

would you use a dentist, doctor, lawyer or engineer simply because they had 'a degree' and/or been doing the job for a while?

No

[Too]

When you have a hard time getting a job teaching in one of the most uneducated places in Asia, why in the world wouldn't you think about moving home or doing something else?

Honestly, with the low pay of teachers in Thailand, the lack of respect, work permit/VISA and everything else, it is hard to believe that for some people this is all the life they can muster?

I have always questioned people that would move to Thailand and work for less than 30,000 a month, unless they had absolutely zero skill in their own country.

Teaching experience in Thailand is pretty much worthless in the rest of the civilized world.

People live in Thailand to work for some reasons. Some do because they have a

family here, others do because they can't go back home for some other reasons.

I've been living in Thailand to teach for more than a year now. I know what you try

to mean. Even my Canadian friend teaching in the Middle East now, being paid

super good, suggested that I should move to another country to work to get paid

better than here in Thailand (His wife is from BKK). I can get treated even better

back home without doubt.

However, I've got a good chance to work overseas now. I'd like to teach here a

bit longer just because I love the Thai kids.

Again, everyone that lives here to work has his or her own reasons, which I'd

love to respect.

[Mencken]

Thank you all, I'm pleased the thread came back to life.

As for having a degree and not being qualified, in US most high school teachers do not have a degree in Education. They possess degrees in single subject/s. To this they must add their credential coursework which is the education component.

In US an Ed degree is for teaching Prathom.

Perhaps why the schools are thought to be so bad is the Ed degreed teachers. Where is their core subject competence? Not like they are using Piaget or Skinner in the class by my observation.

Well, a many jaundiced eye but few facts. Thank you all.

BTW we are all here for different reasons. I never came for the women. I came for something else which led to something else and something else and we'll, now I'm a teacher.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Mencken

[Mencken]

I don't know their rules and guidelines but I can tell you that after 3 years at teaching done at some of the best private and public Thai schools and with excellent references from them yet, my waiver got refused when K looked online and saw that my university was no longer listed as an accredited school. It was my 3rd app for a waiver. I don't teach anymore because of this.

That seems like a valid reason to me? Did you petition them, contact your school? Seems to me if the school does not make the presumably wide cut its not much of a school. Of course, if this were indeed a real school, with proper accreditations then I'd let you slide based on reasoning that at least you have a degree.

[SlyAnimal]

Have you or do you know of anyone first hand WITH A BA/S DEGREE who has been turned down for subsequent waivers?

Yes, not myself, but someone who was teaching at my school last year. They taught for 1 year at a school, then 1 year at another school, and then came to my school and where they applied for a 3rd waiver they were declined.

[Scott]

I also know personally of someone who was denied a waiver. Actually, I know more than one, but some didn't have degrees or at least not BA degrees. The one I know with a BA and numerous years of teaching, but ran out of waivers didn't try any of the other options, like Education Consultant. He just moved on to another country.

[Mencken]

Thx Sly and Scott.

You both are old hands, of course no one really knows but would you venture...

A person with some solid paper behind them infinite waivers or at least options

(consultant)?

[Scott]

One of the schools I deal with has a limited number of positions that can be filled by other than teachers. I think it is 4 positions out of maybe 120 teachers.

We have never tried to switch someone over once they run out of waivers, but I will ask about it.

[markamundo]

I love Thailand but they make it more difficult than it should be. You'd think they could spend 1 day and standardize the waiver rules and be done with it........impossible

[DP25]

I love Thailand but they make it more difficult than it should be. You'd think they could spend 1 day and standardize the waiver rules and be done with it........impossible

They should abolish the teaching license system for foreign English instructors because the entire concept is absurd given Thailand's situation. China, Vietnam, Korea, Japan, etc don't require this and they all pay 2-5 times what Thailand does. Thailand has the worst English in the region, with only 6 out 43,000 Thai English teachers near fluent in English (according to results of the CEFR test), and they are making things as difficult as possible while simultaneously driving out experienced teachers (too many waivers!) and paying by far the lowest wages in Asia.

[attrayant]

I don't know their rules and guidelines but I can tell you that after 3 years at teaching done at some of the best private and public Thai schools and with excellent references from them yet, my waiver got refused when K looked online and saw that my university was no longer listed as an accredited school. It was my 3rd app for a waiver. I don't teach anymore because of this.

Same situation for me. I've an EE degree from an accredited uni that merged with a for-profit uni in the 90s, then split off again, and finally was acquired by another huge for-profit educational conglomerate about 8-10 years ago. I have the original papers and transcript barely holding together on 30 year old tattered paper, but when somebody tried to verify it, they didn't like the fact that the uni name on my old documents doesn't match the current name, and the current name isn't on their magic list of approved colleges/unis.

So I'll most likely be retiring when my current contract is up in March unless the school can pull some strings. Competent science & math teachers aren't easy to find at the average rates here, so the school will probably have to make due with a 25 year old backpacker with a bachelor's degree in business poetry who can read science topics from Wikipedia pages to the class.

No, I'm not bitter at all.

[puukao]

they asked if i had a BA...i said, "NO, I don't have BO." we laughed. i told them i went to Harvard and Yale and got all A+'s.....and my last name was Haryale.

I now run the school in BKK.

i almost told them to check my website, google, to search....but i felt that was reaching. especially since i begged for 11,000 baht a month.

adding some comedy....for myself.

[BruceMangosteen]

Regarding the second, third, fourth etc. waivers, anyone know if "continuing" education actually matters? Put another way, if you've done nothing such as gone to a Thai University, paying some 100,000Baht or various week long for profit seminars(I assume these exist?), just done absolutely nothing in regards to additional "training" are waivers being denied? Happy New Year.

[ejvl2405]

Hey all,

So I came to Thailand in April 2014 and worked for a school on a 1-year contract. I received my first waiver and work permit (blue booklet). When this contract ended, I moved to Bangkok and started working in an International School. I went to Immigration and was granted a second waiver. However, due to a family bereavement I had to leave Thailand and go back to my home country 7 days afterwards. I did NOT pick up my blue work permit book.

My question is, can anyone confirm whether my second waiver would be official on the Thai system if it had not been progressed to receiving the blue work permit book? I would like to come back but I am worried that I will not be granted another waiver. I have a bachelor degree (not education) but plan to complete a M.Ed degree online this year.

Thanks!

[BruceMangosteen]

Your inquiry is confusing, thus, I doubt you will many replies...

1. You don't get a second(or any) waiver from immigration.

2. The school or your kind self has to apply for the Work Permit. It isn't an automatic progression of events from immigration, waiver or not.

3. It's doubtful the school every applied for the Work Permit or waiver or a new VISA without you having a clue as your posting indicates.

Happy Holidays. Come on back, bring a Filipino disguise and accent with you. Best to be female as well if that possible or necessary in your specific case.

[BruceMangosteen]

Regarding the second, third, fourth etc. waivers, anyone know if "continuing" education actually matters? Put another way, if you've done nothing such as gone to a Thai University, paying some 100,000Baht or various week long for profit seminars(I assume these exist?), just done absolutely nothing in regards to additional "training" are waivers being denied? Happy New Year.

Asking again...as no reply

...What is the real basis for denial of second or third waivers? Is it as simple as many would think, depends on the staff's mood at the moment they see you paperwork? Whether they are hungry or have just had lunch etc.? Does the downstairs acceptance of said paperwork/application for a second or third waiver ever get rejected "upstairs" by the person who actually signs the waiver letter? Can a school Director make a call and get this stuff taken care of, if she really wants to keep the teacher? Who should ask the Director to make this call, the Department Head or the teacher herself? Thanks.

[attrayant]

...What is the real basis for denial of second or third waivers?

You haven't gotten a reply because I doubt any of us know the answer.

This year scores of experienced and capable teachers will be forced out of the system and new, inexperienced applicants will be provisionally hired to replace them until they too are forced out in three year's time and replaced by a fresh set of rookies. Lather, rinse, repeat. I'm not sure what the MoE expects to accomplish by this.

If anyone at the top ever puts a moment's thought into it, they'll realize that rejecting experienced teachers in favor of inexperienced ones keeps education in a perpetual state of immaturity and chaos. Yes I understand that by insisting on "paper" qualifications the MoE is pretending to have standards, but they're simply not going to attract the professionals they're looking for unless salaries and working conditions improve quite a bit.

There ought to be competence testing for teachers who can demonstrate knowledge, ability and experience but lack the official piece of paper. It's simply foolish and counterproductive to bar people from holding a job they're qualified for.

[zyphodb]

I think the reasoning behind this & a lot of other ridiculous things in the education system here is that it's all about appearances, make the uneducated parents think that their kids are getting a decent education while making sure that they don't, & skimming off every Baht from the budget & the parents that they can.

An educated population are far more likely to see through the elites BS & rebel, doubly so if they can communicate in English properly & use the internet, which the English language part anyway is beyond the elites control.

If they keep getting rid of as many of the good English teachers that they can, they accomplish these goals, plus the Thai teachers, in particular the so called "English" teachers don't lose so much face at the schools, It's quite clever in a twisted way really...

[Scott]

An off-topic/baiting post removed.

[alex88]

A friend of mine is onto his fourth contract now and hasn't had any issues regarding his waivers. It's never even mentioned unless he asks about it.