Thais Learning English

[bluesofa]

There have been many, many posts through the years regarding this subject. However, this is my first post on it.

In today's Nation, I read two letters in the Opinion section, one of which I thought was not only relevant, but hit the nail on the head:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Never-mind-English-tests-just-answer-this-simple-q-30273066.html

The writer explains that as a native English speaker teaching here for 15 years, to check any Thais' understanding of English, he asks them the plural of “child”.

Apart from that, the writer went on to emphasise various English consonant clusters the Thai tongue has trouble pronouncing.

He also went on to say that there needs to be a good system in place to get Thais to understand and learn the different English sounds that are not present in the Thai vocabulary.

I'm definitely not trying to look down on any group here, but more that I empathise with the sentiment. I've been learning Thai on and off, for about fifteen years (more “off” than “on”). I'm now at intermediate level reading and writing. So from personal experience I understand the importance of learning the basics. I can never say I've found it easy, but have persisted in order to get this far.

There's also another letter in today's Opinion about “the blind leading the blind”.http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/English-plan-a-case-of-the-blind-leading-the-blind-30273067.html

While rather harsh, I do feel it's a very true comment about the Education Department's idea of using Thai teachers to teach other Thais how to teach English. By the way, the writer of that letter is a Thai.

(edit: Posted the same link twice. Corrected the second link)

Edited November 17, 2015 by bluesofa

[ezzra]

When you have every dick tom and harry coming to Thailand and want to stay here the only thing they think they can

do is 'teach English' this is what you get, the blind leading the blind...

how many proper, fully qualified English teachers with the right credentials are out there teaching English?

not many, I venture a guess...

[bluesofa]

When you have every dick tom and harry coming to Thailand and want to stay here the only thing they think they can

do is 'teach English' this is what you get, the blind leading the blind...

how many proper, fully qualified English teachers with the right credentials are out there teaching English?

not many, I venture a guess...

Hmm, did you mis-understand the point being made in the second letter? It was about Thais teaching other Thais English, rather than Tom, Dick and Harry teaching English.

[Squeegee]

You mean there are still rats on the sinking ship? Why put yourself through the indignity of "teaching English" in Thailand? For anyone with two or more years experience almost anywhere but Thailand is preferable.

[geronimo]

Lack of free practice is the main reason Thais have problems with English.

[i claudius]

It comes to something when our son who is a university student in BKK but spent many of his young life in the UK and speaks perfect English ,is paid by the uni to help teach English in his spare time .

[SlyAnimal]

Thai students are, primarily, taught by Thai English teachers.

Most of their Thai English teachers have trouble with English grammar, are shy to speak in English (And few opportunities to do so anyway) and because of this prefer to conduct their English lessons in Thai.

Many of these Thai English lessons involve either a vocabulary list being written on the board, in English & Thai, to be memorized, or filling out answers in their workbooks, which at high school at least, is usually at a level well above any but the very best students. To break up the boredom, the remaining lessons often consist of singing a song or similar, which has its purpose, but is often just done "As a song", rather than as a lesson (e.g. Explaining the vocabulary & meaning of the song as well as getting the students to do appropriate actions while singing it to assist with memory triggers etc).

If the teachers could speak better English, so that they could pronounce words correctly, had more confidence to speak and were taught how to teach IN ENGLISH, then they'd use it in class more often, This would increase the student's ability to understand spoken English + increase their exposure to correct pronunciation + they might actually use English in class, since at present if the teacher can't speak in English, they can't really expect the students to do so.

Which is why I'm a big advocate of the Thai English teachers receiving additional training, if they have a higher level of English, then they'll be much more effective teachers. Particularly as it'd be impossible, both from an economical persective and a practical one, to employ sufficient native speakers to educate all of the children in Thailand. However, if the resources used to provide schools with NES teachers, were instead allocated towards teaching Thai English teachers (Either as university students, or as existing teachers), then this would be a much more efficient use of resources than having NES teachers for "Show" at schools.

Which is why I'm dumbstruck by why a lot of people seem to think that "teaching the teachers", is a bad idea. Reducing the number of foreign teachers is a bit of a negative, as they're a band aid for what is a pretty messed up English education system, but fixing the core system has got to be the best solution for Thailand going forward, rather than just applying successive band aids (Particularly as the band aids haven't resolved the situation, with most Thai students still finishing school without being able to speak English, since Foreign teachers are simply in too shorter supply for any except the wealthy students to have enough lessons with them in order to make a real difference to their English).

[gk10002000]

You mean there are still rats on the sinking ship? Why put yourself through the indignity of "teaching English" in Thailand? For anyone with two or more years experience almost anywhere but Thailand is preferable.

That may be true for many aspects of teaching, pay, etc. but Thailand is Thailand. I prefer it for so many other reasons over every other Asian country at the moment

[Mencken]

Some keen observation Slyanimal.

The entire system is broken. Archaic bureaucracy, lack of direction, poor teachers, poor materials, corruption, indifference.

Thai kids don't pay attention in class, its not entirely their fault but I place the initial blame there. Even in the worst circumstances, people can learn immense amounts of information if they have the desire. Schools need discipline.

Next, I look to the teachers. Most well past their prime and been on autopilot since forever. Many new teachers lack fluency that is found in any common EP program. Oh, the irony. I recently bumped into a PE teacher who spoke better English than half the department.

It's funny them to judge us on our classes. Their classes are mind numbing.

Poor choices of books based on money whether cost or kickback. Too many teaching hours, create a PowerPoint, lol, right...

Perpetual turnover in mid level administration. With one exception, my school has astonishingly bad directors in position for from what I gather the better part of a decade. The school I came from, a household word in Thailand also had horrible directors. Take your turn at the top, rake the cash and secure a higher pension on retirement.

The system is an easy target but the reality is that is not going to change. You can place all blame there, but change needs to come from the students and teachers, supported by the directors.

Thais very much confuse activity with productivity.

The nation needs smart, well educated EDUCATORS at the helm and change needs to be brutal and crushing.

I'm all for Thais taking back their education from the 45000 farang. But first they need Thai an army of them with TOEIC 800++.

Every year some new pronouncement comes from the education machine, something earth shaking. Nothing is done.

I really do not see the objection to farang teachers with degrees from US, UK, etc. NES. It's ironic the Nation article recently mentions money as the primary driver. Most foreign teachers are making about the same, in most cases less than Thai's. Older teachers even have a pension. Farang also in addition provide an element of well, exoticism even in Bangkok. We are not zoo animals but imo it's a plus to meet people from other cultures.

The announcement as of late, just another jingoistic, bombast often heard coming from +30 up Thai men. Thai rak Thai.

The irony is of course, turning to British Council for training program. They could never do it on their own. But then the folly, if the teachers are simply not up to speed, they simply can't get there so I hope they are training fresh, new teachers and those with the highest English skills.

Be the change you want to see in the world - Ghandi.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Mencken

[BKKdreaming]

Maybe they need a special visa for English speakers who will teach the Thai teachers ,

I would be happy to sit down for an hour or 2 and help them pronounce words they do not know,

and yes I know it will never happen......

[lostinisaan]

When you have every dick tom and harry coming to Thailand and want to stay here the only thing they think they can

do is 'teach English' this is what you get, the blind leading the blind...

how many proper, fully qualified English teachers with the right credentials are out there teaching English?

not many, I venture a guess...

Hmm, did you mis-understand the point being made in the second letter? It was about Thais teaching other Thais English, rather than Tom, Dick and Harry teaching English.

Please don't be so hard on him. His username is the Turkish word for Hashish. Maybe he answered the wrong thread?

From the article written by a Thai who obviously knows what's going on here.:

"Also, his revelation that only six among the 43,000 Thai teachers of English are fluent in the language prompted me to wonder what has his ministry has been doing"

That's a "very scary revelation".

[lostinisaan]

Thai students are, primarily, taught by Thai English teachers.

Most of their Thai English teachers have trouble with English grammar, are shy to speak in English (And few opportunities to do so anyway) and because of this prefer to conduct their English lessons in Thai.

Many of these Thai English lessons involve either a vocabulary list being written on the board, in English & Thai, to be memorized, or filling out answers in their workbooks, which at high school at least, is usually at a level well above any but the very best students. To break up the boredom, the remaining lessons often consist of singing a song or similar, which has its purpose, but is often just done "As a song", rather than as a lesson (e.g. Explaining the vocabulary & meaning of the song as well as getting the students to do appropriate actions while singing it to assist with memory triggers etc).

If the teachers could speak better English, so that they could pronounce words correctly, had more confidence to speak and were taught how to teach IN ENGLISH, then they'd use it in class more often, This would increase the student's ability to understand spoken English + increase their exposure to correct pronunciation + they might actually use English in class, since at present if the teacher can't speak in English, they can't really expect the students to do so.

Which is why I'm a big advocate of the Thai English teachers receiving additional training, if they have a higher level of English, then they'll be much more effective teachers. Particularly as it'd be impossible, both from an economical persective and a practical one, to employ sufficient native speakers to educate all of the children in Thailand. However, if the resources used to provide schools with NES teachers, were instead allocated towards teaching Thai English teachers (Either as university students, or as existing teachers), then this would be a much more efficient use of resources than having NES teachers for "Show" at schools.

Which is why I'm dumbstruck by why a lot of people seem to think that "teaching the teachers", is a bad idea. Reducing the number of foreign teachers is a bit of a negative, as they're a band aid for what is a pretty messed up English education system, but fixing the core system has got to be the best solution for Thailand going forward, rather than just applying successive band aids (Particularly as the band aids haven't resolved the situation, with most Thai students still finishing school without being able to speak English, since Foreign teachers are simply in too shorter supply for any except the wealthy students to have enough lessons with them in order to make a real difference to their English).

Wise words, Sly. I really started laughing today when my colleague "made our grade one EP class dance to an extraordinary rhythm".

Thai students in this video are dancing to a subcultural and diseased, brutally eardrum destroying music. I couldn't hold back.....

I know that it was always your dream to visit the Barbarian Oktoberfest in Munich, right?

She showed the kids a clip of some usually Bavarian folklore song of guys having two one liter (litre) beer mugs in their hands and dancing on the table wearing a Dirndl.

Also called Blasmusik. Well, I know German words are not allowed on this forum, but "Blas" means to blow.Blowmusic in Thailand. Lol.-

I couldn't find the original Thai students dance movie, but I hope you like this one:

P.S. Will message you the link where you'll get your dress very cheap. You'll look great in it and immediately become the head teacher.

Edited November 19, 2015 by lostinisaan