A First Post

[soic]

All I can say is be careful. It sounds like there's genuine feeling there, but there's also quite a few questions. If you don't live there with her everyday, and get to see what's going on, I too would recommend the PI, at least while you're away. She may love you, but she could be hedging her bet. Women tend to worry more about their futures than we men do. We can go off half cocked and build our dreams, they can't. They need to plan and be secure. Just have someone check for your piece of mind. It feels really good. Heck, I even contacted a PI about my situation two years ago. After hearing my story, he told me I didn't have anything to worry about, and it turns out, I didn't. The point is, I had concerns and questions and I looked into them. It didn't mean I didn't love her, it meant that I was a little bit worried. Fore your own peace of mind you need to at least check. I felt a lot better knowing that I was wrong about my situation, than I would have felt if I hadn't questioned and been right. And for goodness sake... learn some Thai and try to find some entertainment that doesn't involve girlie bars.

[dgoz]

Hire a PI. But obviously,don't let her know about it, even later on.

No-one can really give you the right advice here because we don't know you, or her.

But, going on the facts and on what we know of ex-bg's it's better to really know what's going on.

It's only going to cost you a months bar bills to know for sure. Then you can relax, marry her and get on with life.

There are so many disaster stories that could have been averted. And these stories are from educated and successful guys!

[Neeranam]

You G/F worked in a bar so what! majority are working in bars to support the family.

Really, the majority of Thai women work as bar-girls? I didn't know that. Where do you live- Pattaya?

[VanZam]

I'm amazed so many people are telling the OP to go with his gut feelings on this.

All the warning signs are there, ex bargirl, kids, dodgy background stories, BF who works outside Thailand.

[pepi1]

Check out the story re. husband killed in car accident. One of my relationships in Thailand involved being told of huband's head being sliced off when his m/c went under an artic lorry. Dead of course, but later proved to be a lie!! Also, maybe she has a thai boyfriend in Bangkok. Does not want to leave. Only my thoughts. Good luck.

[Thumchok]

Lighten up you guys

I started this thread , trying to understand the motives as to why she wouldn't be happy to move back with her family .

Now she has a husband , and is out to con me ? And I have a drinking problem ?

I am new to this forum , but am a member of a couple of others .

I wonder if the PI suggestion would have been so popular , if I didn't tell you that she used to work in a bar ?

Next you'll be telling me to read Private Dancer ( I allready have )

I was never rushed into marrying her . She has said that it is a Thai girls dream , But up to you

I have many friends that live here , some for up to 20 years . They all live with ex bar girls , all have children to them . the eldest one being at a guess 12 years old . These are solid relationships . When I compare mine to theirs , I feel I am even better off than they are .

My gf has a few close friends from her old bar , she doesn't meet up with them in the bar . She will visit their home , or they will visit ours . ( Unless we are in the neighborhood , and decide to go in for a couple of drinks )

My gut feeling is that I have never been so well looked after in all my life , and yes , I need to start pacing myself from the bars .

The PI would be a good suggestion if I was worrying about her chastity . This is not why I started the thread , and really not a concern of mine .

Tim ,

I am taking it that from your threads you are a very wise person , who has spent a lot of time here and seen the worst .

I think that if you actually met my lady , that you would feel a lot less concerned . What can I say " She IS different ". How many times have you heard that one ?

She worries about her future ?? Of course she does . She also has seen the girls that return to the bar , after a fall out in a relationship with a Farang .

Guys ,

Cheers for all the advice , but we a veering completely off the original problem , and trying to create a few more . Try to open your hearts a little , let the guard down every now and then .

I wasn't born yesterday & have read many books and posts on Thailand and it's wonderful people . I have met and conversed with many of the bar girls , and also heard their sad stories .

The marriage part is not a problem to me . But building the house in the sticks seems now like a waste of money . However , at least I have somewhere comfortable to stay when We visit the family . And I am sure that my wife and her parents have gained considerable face in the village .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[Donz]

You G/F worked in a bar so what! majority are working in bars to support the family.

Really, the majority of Thai women work as bar-girls? I didn't know that. Where do you live- Pattaya?

[Thai-Spy]

I'm amazed so many people are telling the OP to go with his gut feelings on this.

All the warning signs are there, ex bargirl, kids, dodgy background stories, BF who works outside Thailand.

Indeed these are some of the classic parameters of a dishonest relationship. That doesn't mean anything is amiss for the OP, but there's enough there to warrant an investigation.

Page 1:

Thanks to Tim/Maizefarmer for dropping our name into the conversation.

Jim/Thumchok, don't be too shocked that she doesn't want to go back to the village. As others have pointed out, once some girls get a taste of the cosmopolitan life they don't want to resume a rural lifestlye. Also the proximity of her parents and family may force her back into a societal role she no longer wants. There may be a lot of bad memories for her there.

You don't mention how sell you speak standard Thai or the local dialect. You may not be clued in to what is being said in the village about her and you. It's not uncommon for most or all of a village to be in on a scam; remember the maxim that you don't mess with another person's rice bowl.

If her desire to pursue a career is genuine and not just an excuse that's to be commended. We see far too often the "Princess Lao Syndrome" where an ex-bargirl with a farang man is content to park her butt on the sofa all day, watch TV and talk on the phone as though she's "arrived". If she's sincere about work and a normal life, it may infer that she views you as a partner in a real relationship not just a part-time live-in sponsor.

Thaddeus said, "if you employ a PI and she gets wind of it, probably be the end of what could be a real relationship."

Indeed. Which is why we usually recommend against covert investigations in rural locations. There usually aren't enough pretexts to justify the presence of a stranger, even a Thai, in a village unless accompanied by a resident. There are exceptions of course such as when a village has a strong manufacturing base for a particular product, etc. It's very different from a missing persons case where you can openly do interviews to develop information.

Page 2:

Jim, please take Maizefarmer or someone else up on the offer to translate the papers for you, if only for your own peace of mind. We can do the same for you, but there would be a fee. You probably don't need to go to the length of fully authenticating them; it's very unlikely they are carefully crafted fakes prepared just in case a farang wandered by.

If you have any concerns that you don't feel comfortable posting publicly, please send a private message or contact us through the links in our profile. We're happy to consult with you on a no-fee basis.

[udon]

Jim,

Trust but verify!

[VanZam]

Lighten up you guys

I started this thread , trying to understand the motives as to why she wouldn't be happy to move back with her family .

Now she has a husband , and is out to con me ? And I have a drinking problem ?

I am new to this forum , but am a member of a couple of others .

I wonder if the PI suggestion would have been so popular , if I didn't tell you that she used to work in a bar ?

Next you'll be telling me to read Private Dancer ( I allready have )

I was never rushed into marrying her . She has said that it is a Thai girls dream , But up to you

I have many friends that live here , some for up to 20 years . They all live with ex bar girls , all have children to them . the eldest one being at a guess 12 years old . These are solid relationships . When I compare mine to theirs , I feel I am even better off than they are .

My gf has a few close friends from her old bar , she doesn't meet up with them in the bar . She will visit their home , or they will visit ours . ( Unless we are in the neighborhood , and decide to go in for a couple of drinks )

My gut feeling is that I have never been so well looked after in all my life , and yes , I need to start pacing myself from the bars .

The PI would be a good suggestion if I was worrying about her chastity . This is not why I started the thread , and really not a concern of mine .

Tim ,

I am taking it that from your threads you are a very wise person , who has spent a lot of time here and seen the worst .

I think that if you actually met my lady , that you would feel a lot less concerned . What can I say " She IS different ". How many times have you heard that one ?

She worries about her future ?? Of course she does . She also has seen the girls that return to the bar , after a fall out in a relationship with a Farang .

Guys ,

Cheers for all the advice , but we a veering completely off the original problem , and trying to create a few more . Try to open your hearts a little , let the guard down every now and then .

I wasn't born yesterday & have read many books and posts on Thailand and it's wonderful people . I have met and conversed with many of the bar girls , and also heard their sad stories .

The marriage part is not a problem to me . But building the house in the sticks seems now like a waste of money . However , at least I have somewhere comfortable to stay when We visit the family . And I am sure that my wife and her parents have gained considerable face in the village .

Cheers ,

Jim .

When you start a topic like this one, you can expect honest no BS answers based on experience, after all, if you were having no doubts about your relationship, why did you bother starting this topic in the first place?

The situation you are in is a classic, so you can't blame members from coming to rather negative conclusions about your relationship. This same situation is repeated day in day out thousands of times, and for the most part, the farang loses.

If I were in your situation, there is no doubt that I would check stories out for peace of mind, after all, your gf was in a profession where lying is common place, and usually a means to an end.

It almost seems like your story is "too" common, if I hadn't followed this from the beginning I would say it was pure trolling.

[bkkmadness]

Poor Thumchok, he's got a slight problem with his gf and doesn't realise why she doesn't want to move out of Bangkok for whatever reason, though probably something to do with the fact that shes looking for work and obviously enjoys city life more than the village.

He brings it onto the TV forum, already his gfs dead husband is back to life, she has a Thai bf in Bangkok, hes getting scammed, we have recommendations of getting this girl investigated and even Thai Spy have come on here stating that there's enough reason here to 'warrant an investigation'.

A touch overkill perhaps?

[englishoak]

bkkmadness you think ?

[Donz]

It always seems to happend

[bkkmadness]

You G/F worked in a bar so what! majority are working in bars to support the family.

Really, the majority of Thai women work as bar-girls? I didn't know that. Where do you live- Pattaya?

I think he means the majority of bargirls.

[Thumchok]

PS - the car accident story is as old as the hills - with complete honesty & sincerity I tell you, I'd be very grateful if you would come back in due course and confirm that you know this to be the case for 100% irrefutable fact.

What she needs to show you to demonstrate this to be the case is a copy of the kid(s) birth certificates (showing her to be mom and him to be dad), and a copy of dads death certificate. Both are documents which she WILL have if this sad incident did happen.

Any prob's reading Thai then scan in a PM to me.

Tim

Well , I still think that you guys are going a little over the top . But to put your thoughts at ease I will refer to this suggestion , but need to ask some questions .

The children's birth certificates , should not be a problem to have a look at . I would think that they are back in the village being looked after by her monther . But she should be able to get copies here in Bangkok . Right ?

But we are all aware that many Thais call a marriage as such , just by living with them .

This was the case with mine as I will describe in the short story that follows .

How does one get a death certificate from some guy that lived in another province ?

Now , the story .

My GF left her family back when she was 14 , as did both her sisters . To go to Bangkok to find work , and send money home to the family .

All three have been married to Thais , The other two , correctly , with the sinsot given to the mother . My wife worked in a clothing factory and hooked up another guy that worked in the same factory . She fell pregnant to the man fairly quickly . I am just going on the ages here as she she would have just turned 18 when the eldest child was born .

The relationship between the two was not supported by her family . No sinsot was given , and my gf continued it against the parents will . The daughter was born , but both she and my gf were shunned by her parents . ( Her words , they did not speak ) Sometime after this the husband spent the 3 months in the temple , and during this period , my GF lived with her elder sister . When the husband returned , he goty a job driving a taxi , and the moved into an apartment in Bangkok . She has showed me where the apartment was , as we have driven past it . Very old building , in not quite a slum area .

A few years later her son was born . Now going on the ages and information she has given , I would estimate that her son was less than a year old when her husband died in the accident . Being the first son born into the family ( Her mother all daughters , and her elder sister 2 daughters ) They were accepted back into the family , and the son was and still is treated like a king .

She left the children with the parents , and returned to Bangkok to begin working in the bar scene . Of course she needed money to send to her parents for taking care of the children .

Two years later , I walk into the scene . Take her away from the bar , and we have been living together ever since .

A comment was made by her father to her when I asked to marry her . It was , If I don't stay with her , he will knock the house down . Of course I don't believe that he would do it . But none the less , I read the comment as him telling her to make sure that she looked after me , and make sure we are together forever .

Well , I don't know if the story is of help or not . But it must show that we understand each other enough to form a lasting relationship .

My Thai is pitiful , and I have no Idea what people are saying up there in the village . I am working on it by picking up a couple of words each time home , but have a long way to go yet .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[Maizefarmer]

No Jim - you are quite right - I would have given you a very different reply had you not said anything about her having a "bright lights & bar" background. But the PI part I would still have suggested.

You see - the problem lies in your first posting. There is nothing in what you said that is unique or leads me to believe your situation is any different i.e. I have heard it all before. Let me say that again: the background story you shared with us is a classic - almost word for word.

As said, if you can come back to us with 100% clairifcation on the following it will go along way to addressing the sceptisim I and others have.

1) Copy of kids birth certificates to show she is the mother.

2 Copy of her marrige ceritifcate.

3) Copy of the death certificate (which shows the same name as the father and husband as in 1 & 2)

Tell you what - I'll put my money where my mouth is: $100 cash if you can scan and PM to me all 3 of the above (I read Thai as well as I read English) ........and I'll put the record straight for all others who have their eye on this forum.

Best Regards

Tim

[soic]

You came forth with the questions and concerns. It's up to you, I'd still feel more comfort from facts than doubts. This kind of reminds me of when my daughter was having boyfriend problems, "Oh Dad! He's so awful and mean; I just hate him!" I responded... "Baby, I know... you can do so much better... he's a schmuck and you deserve better!". Then I heard "Oh Dad, he's not that bad... you just didn't give him a chance. How can you talk so mean?". Same thing here... I'm sure that you love her and she loves you. You were the one with concerns earlier, if we'd responded it was all in your head and that she was an angel, you'd have been offended at that, it's human nature. Anyway... if you have questions about her seriousness and about any possible character problems, hire the PI and be done with it, or just accept her reason for not moving and go on... it's all up to you. Not all bar girls are bad... even mine did her season there. We've been together 3 years, built a home and businesses and live in a small rural village. Even I had questions at first, it's only natural, but then would go with me anywhere and has...

[Thumchok]

No Jim - you are quite right - I would have given you a very different reply had you not said anything about her having a "bright lights & bar" background. But the PI part I would still have suggested.

You see - the problem lies in your first posting. There is nothing in what you said that is unique or leads me to believe your situation is any different i.e. I have heard it all before. Let me say that again: the background story you shared with us is a classic - almost word for word.

As said, if you can come back to us with 100% clairifcation on the following it will go along way to addressing the sceptisim I and others have.

1) Copy of kids birth certificates to show she is the mother.

2 Copy of her marrige ceritifcate.

3) Copy of the death certificate (which shows the same name as the father and husband as in 1 & 2)

Tell you what - I'll put my money where my mouth is: $100 cash if you can scan and PM to me all 3 of the above (I read Thai as well as I read English) ........and I'll put the record straight for all others who have their eye on this forum.

Best Regards

Tim

Tim ,

Thanks for the generous offer , but I am not in need of the money .

I would be glad to PM these details for free , If I was able to obtain them .

Item #1 should not pose a problem , but 2 & 3 are . If I get a name , would we be able to ask for a death cert. only having the children as relatives ???

I am not sure of the process , and how open to the public these details would be .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[Neeranam]

I'd bet that as soon as you tell your gf that you want to see these things she'll have a very strange reaction.

[Thumchok]

I'd bet that as soon as you tell your gf that you want to see these things she'll have a very strange reaction.I somehow doubt it . Of course she will need to know why I need them . I will just tell her it is required by the consulate to make our marriage legal . She has been nothing but honest as far as I know up til this point , so I see no need to worry .

And yes , she does want a legal marriage .

( I know that it won't be very honest of me , but as they say , "what can I do ?"

Cheers ,

Jim .

[bkkmadness]

I'd bet that as soon as you tell your gf that you want to see these things she'll have a very strange reaction.I somehow doubt it . Of course she will need to know why I need them . I will just tell her it is required by the consulate to make our marriage legal . She has been nothing but honest as far as I know up til this point , so I see no need to worry .

And yes , she does want a legal marriage .

( I know that it won't be very honest of me , but as they say , "what can I do ?"

Cheers ,

Jim .

So your gf has been nothing but honest with you and you recipricate by lying to her about why you need to see her childrens birth certificates and husbands death certificate. You do realise these certificates could be faked, I would suggest you take blood tests of both the children and her for DNA sampling, also, you may need to see the remains of her husband as well and get those verified. Maybe you could fit her with some kind of electronic tagging device as well, perhaps a microchip?

I imagine dishonesty and foul play can be the only reason why your gf does not want to go back to the village, and I feel you need to put your gf under investigation because a bunch of strangers on the net have suggested you to do so.

[lannarebirth]

Hi Jim,

Is it your intent to adopt your girlfriends fatherless children? If it is, I think you'll need all those documents Tim was asking about anyway. Also, judging from a couple of threads I've read here in the past, it is usually during the adoption process that the truth of dead/missing fathers comes to light, as it's an excellent opportunity to extort money from you, which they can't seem to pass up.

That said, I'm sure none of that stuff applies to you and I wish you and the TGF the very best.

[soic]

I'd bet that as soon as you tell your gf that you want to see these things she'll have a very strange reaction.I somehow doubt it . Of course she will need to know why I need them . I will just tell her it is required by the consulate to make our marriage legal . She has been nothing but honest as far as I know up til this point , so I see no need to worry .

And yes , she does want a legal marriage .

( I know that it won't be very honest of me , but as they say , "what can I do ?"

Cheers ,

Jim .

So your gf has been nothing but honest with you and you recipricate by lying to her about why you need to see her childrens birth certificates and husbands death certificate. You do realise these certificates could be faked, I would suggest you take blood tests of both the children and her for DNA sampling, also, you may need to see the remains of her husband as well and get those verified. Maybe you could fit her with some kind of electronic tagging device as well, perhaps a microchip?

I imagine dishonesty and foul play can be the only reason why your gf does not want to go back to the village, and I feel you need to put your gf under investigation because a bunch of strangers on the net have suggested you to do so.

Wow! Do they sell those tagging devices and microchips in Thailand? I'd like to get one for my wife... is there anyway to get GPS and Satellite Radio as well? It would be so cool to twist her nipples to change stations, and tug her ears to find out where I'm at.... This is so Cool! Thanks!

[VanZam]

Maybe you could fit her with some kind of electronic tagging device as well, perhaps a microchip?

You may be on to something there

[Thumchok]

I'd bet that as soon as you tell your gf that you want to see these things she'll have a very strange reaction.I somehow doubt it . Of course she will need to know why I need them . I will just tell her it is required by the consulate to make our marriage legal . She has been nothing but honest as far as I know up til this point , so I see no need to worry .

And yes , she does want a legal marriage .

( I know that it won't be very honest of me , but as they say , "what can I do ?"

Cheers ,

Jim .

So your gf has been nothing but honest with you and you recipricate by lying to her about why you need to see her childrens birth certificates and husbands death certificate. You do realise these certificates could be faked, I would suggest you take blood tests of both the children and her for DNA sampling, also, you may need to see the remains of her husband as well and get those verified. Maybe you could fit her with some kind of electronic tagging device as well, perhaps a microchip?

I imagine dishonesty and foul play can be the only reason why your gf does not want to go back to the village, and I feel you need to put your gf under investigation because a bunch of strangers on the net have suggested you to do so.

Point taken and well put . I think I found the answers that I originally was looking for on the first page of this thread . We are just trying to turn this into one of those , don't ever trust a BG threads .

She has done nothing to warrant the suspicions that the posters are seeing so clearly . I will be sure to give you all the satisfaction of knowing you were right when it all goes sour .

I allready installed the microchip in the form of an engagement ring on her , 12 months ago .

Sure we can all have doubts at times as to how long it lasts . But outright distrust will ruin any relationship .

Cheers ,

Jim .

lannarebirth ,

We haven't discussed the Idea of adopting the children yet . In a similar situation I was in with my last wife ( Farang) , I believed that this should be the childrens decision . If they want that I will support them , but being a farang I would have to understand that they wouldn't want to feel any different to their friends .

But thanks for the good info , as it may come in handy down the road .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[jing jing]

Jim, have you ever actually asked your fiancee why she doesn't want to move back to Roi Et and take care of her kids?

If you're interested in finding out why, that might be a good place to start...

[mark131v]

Thumchok,

you sound like you have your head screwed on, there are a lot of bitter and twisted people out there who like to spread the doom and gloom. The whole ex bargirl thing winds me up, we all have a past but that is like saying all scots are tight (total bol**ks!!) if we are completely honest 90% of the girls we are with have probably worked bar at some stage, needs must it doesn't automatically make them some kind of evil coniving witch,we are all different. You had the answer mate go with your gut feeling

[Thumchok]

Jim, have you ever actually asked your fiancee why she doesn't want to move back to Roi Et and take care of her kids?

If you're interested in finding out why, that might be a good place to start...

It was already mentioned in the first post as to why she didn't want to go back to Roi Et . I haven't asked why she doesn't want to look after the kids .

I assume that she thinks that when the children are around that she will have less time fuss over me . And of course , I can go along with that .

She told me today that the eldest daughter finishes school this year ( Other than going away from the village and continuing ) I am waiting to see what she has in mind here . I am all for putting the children through a decent education , and giving them the best possible start in life , she is aware of this .

I think I will have the answer to this question over the next couple of weeks .

Cheers ,

Jim .

[enuff said]

Dear Thum,

Please don't take offense. These guys really feel for you and many of us have gone through similar troubles.

You don't mention how old you are but it doesn't matter. You want to spend the rest of your life with her. But you also say the BKK lifestyle is eating up a good portion of your money. As well as being a very tempting "kid in a candy store" existance for you.

Make a plan. A serious plan for the future. You aren't getting any younger and neither is she.

Tell her you have to plan for the future. It's TRUE. You have to make investments and have money put away so you can take care of yourself AND her 10/20/30 years from now. Her children's education. Her parent's old age health care. Insurance, visa fees, taxes, etc. etc.

Remind her that you have to have hundreds of thousands in the bank to get the proper visa to live here permanently. Living in a 30k a month apartment is maybe kind of foolish? Does she think so?

Tell her you will make some kind of business for her in her village or in the nearest bigger town. Hairdressing, retail, whatever. She can be closer to her kids and contribute realistically to their lives.

You have to decide what is important for your mutual happiness and see if she agrees. You might mention that in BKK she will always be a very small fish in a very big pond. But, back home, she can do a lot of good for her family and her village.

You have been with her for quite a while but you have to look ahead and be serious about your future. With her or without her.

'nuff said

[Big Blue]

It was already mentioned in the first post as to why she didn't want to go back to Roi Et . I haven't asked why she doesn't want to look after the kids .

I assume that she thinks that when the children are around that she will have less time fuss over me . And of course , I can go along with that .

She told me today that the eldest daughter finishes school this year ( Other than going away from the village and continuing ) I am waiting to see what she has in mind here . I am all for putting the children through a decent education , and giving them the best possible start in life , she is aware of this .

I think I will have the answer to this question over the next couple of weeks .

Cheers ,

Jim .

Jim, take my word for it and end this post, the more you come back to it the more wound up and paranoid you will become, you have had some good replies so take it all on board and see what happens in the next few weeks.

All the best mate