Turkey 'shoots down' warplane near Syrian-Turkish border

[Publicus]

Putin has no business bombing anti-Daesh Turkmen which are literally at the Turkey border. It is provocative by Putin and Putin knows it. Putin needs to bomb Daesh, not Turkey supported anti-Assad rebels based literally at the border.

Putin has been bombing US & Coalition supported rebels most of which Turkey also supports. The US & Coalition with its partners such as UK and France want Assad out.

Putin went in to save Assad from widespread rebel gains throughout this year. The gains had caused Assad to consider relocating from Damascus where his palace grounds were being hit by mortar rounds and other shelling. Assad had been actively preparing to relocate to Latakia on the coast which is perhaps the ultimate Alawite stronghold.

Erdogan has howled publicly the past couple of months about Russian jets violating Turkey air space and bombing Turkmen locales. Violations by Russian AF fighter/bomber jets have occurred regularly throughout Putin's air assaults against rebels Erdogan supports. Putin is doing this borderline bombing from the air consciously, deliberately..

So Erdogan whacked Putin a good one and gave Putin a bloody nose. No one had ever done that. Erdogan is nobody's favorite but good on him for packing some punch against Putin. The arrogant Erdogan does have a short fuse yet Putin continues with his provocations. After all, Erdogan doesn't pop off to shoot down the aircraft of neighboring countries that might violate Turkish air space. Neither do countries such as Greece blast Turkish planes that do the same.

Now Putin is escalating further by bringing in surface to air anti-aircraft missiles. The introduction of the ak-ak missiles is a statement to Erdogan and the Turkish military high command. Putin bombing at the Turkey border actually seems throughout to be looking for a confrontation with Turkey too. Which is to say Nato. If Putin does want to test Nato, it would be his worst idea in a succession of years of amazingly dummkofpt ideas.

Because Turkey is a Nato country, it is technically true Nato shot down the Russian flying junk jet. Nato has not tried to separate itself from Erdogan's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter nor of the death that occurred. Nato was formed to resist and defend against Soviet Russia. Putin remains exactly that.

[Publicus]

Turkey is also upset by Russia's annexation of Crimea. Lots of ethnic Turks there. They just took out the power lines a few days ago in protest of Russia's invasion and poor treatment of this ethnic minority.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/872873-crimea-state-of-emergency-declared/

Crimean Tatars, an ethnic group opposed to Russian rule, have held a protest at the site.

an ethnic group native to Crimean peninsula

origins date back to 14th century

245,000 living in Crimea

they seek “ethnic and territorial autonomy” for Crimean Tatars using “political and legal” means

These aggressive actions are starting to come back and bite Putin very hard.

Putin is creating a dangerous and provocative disorder and chaos from Stettin on the Baltic to Trieste on the Asiatic right into Damascus...and beyond. Putin is only expanding and intensifying an already existing mess and entanglements.

Putin is travelling along the paths of two world wars and a cold war. He seems more focused against Turkey than any other, the former Ottomans. He seems to want to take Europe the ME and the rest of us back to a grimly abysmal time and place. Make no mistake about Vladimir Putin because the one thing Putin is not is a lamp lighter.

[Thorgal]

Strange that Turkey makes a lot of tam-tam for a supposedly 2.25 km air violation, knowing that many Jihadi's transited through Turkey without being arrested for years...

The latest Paris attacks were committed by some Jihadi's who did 2 tour of duty in Syria. Non of them have been arrested.

The terrorist who attacked a Jewish museum in Brussels was a similar case.

Many thousands of Jihadi's transited through Turkey.

Turkmen Gray Wolves is to my knowledge a terrorist group.

Erdogan has political roots to the Muslim brotherhood.

All towns/cities taken in Syria by the 'moderated' FSA and franchises were shortly afther the takeover submitted to Sunni Sharia law. Schools were destroyed, massive beheadings were common for religious or political opponents, women are only allowed to walk in public with a male relative with niqab, all citizens are subjected to a Sharia tax to pay to the Jihadi's...

Edited November 26, 2015 by Thorgal

[Thorgal]

The Turkmen are not arabs. They are ethnic Turks. Have been abused by Assad and are fighting back. So Russia bombs them. And that makes Turkey mad as Russia keeps saying they are bombing ISIS, which these Turkmen rebels are trying to fight. A mess. Russia should stick to bombing ISIS.

Russia has to bomb everybody.

They are all fighting Assad.

You can't pick and choose rebels...everybody gets smoked.

The turkmen should then bugger off back to turkey if they don't like assad….i hope russia lays waste to that entire area….if you're carrying a weapon and you're not in the syrian army uniform, you're fair game.

is it Russia's business to do that?

Let Assad do it by his army!

that is fair game. it is not fair for people living there for thousands of years get bombed by Russia which is a Northern country thousands of km away and it has no ethnic and historical relationship on that are too.

Russia and Syria have a defense treaty. It's fully legitimate according to international laws that Russia is conducting military actions in Syria.

Assads popular Army is composed of volunteering citizens like Armenians, Kurds, Arabs, Christians, Sunni's, Shia's, Alawites, Alevites,...

Syria has a long history of integration of refugees wich benefit of equal rights like every other Syrian citizens.

I think there's even a Palestinian General in Syria Army. Many Turkish Armenians fled to Syria just before and after the Armenian genocide. Idem dito for the Turkish Christians, Alawites and Alevites. And the Kurds.

If you know a little bit more of Turkish/Syrian history you would understand that many Syrian refugees are now in Turkish refugee camps alongside the Turkish border. To know that many of them are owner of legitimate chanotes dating from the Ottoman Empire are are now refugees on their own lands...

Hatay province was never intended to be Turkish according to Sykes-Picot 1 agreement. It was a 'gift' from the French protectorate. The Turks also received a long strip of land alongside the ancient Turkish/Syrian border. Idem dito for the Kurdish plateaus who became Turkish.

Just to explain basically the Turkish engagement and non-cooperation for the end of Syrian civil war...

Edited November 26, 2015 by Thorgal

[maykilceksin]

Strange that Turkey makes a lot of tam-tam for a supposedly 2.25 km air violation, knowing that many Jihadi's transited through Turkey without being arrested for years...

The latest Paris attacks were committed by some Jihadi's who did 2 tour of duty in Syria. Non of them have been arrested.

The terrorist who attacked a Jewish museum in Brussels was a similar case.

Many thousands of Jihadi's transited through Turkey.

Turkmen Gray Wolves is to my knowledge a terrorist group.

Erdogan has political roots to the Muslim brotherhood.

All towns/cities taken in Syria by the 'moderated' FSA and franchises were shortly afther the takeover submitted to Sunni Sharia law. Schools were destroyed, massive beheadings were common for religious or political opponents, women are only allowed to walk in public with a male relative with niqab, all citizens are subjected to a Sharia tax to pay to the Jihadi's...

some of that ...g Jihadis are French and European citizens.

How come France allow its citizens to go to Turkey and join ISIS? And two times in a row?

So France intel is not so strong or basically they did not care or they were not expecting cockroach company ISIS to do all that mess in Paris. They were thinking they were safe and they were thinking all these bombings and killings only happen in Middle East and in Turkey.

What i know most European citizens arrested in Turkey for their possible attendance to ISIS are mostly released at the airports back at their home countries without many questions asked and some caught second and sometime third time in Turkey!

Europe made a big mistake by accepting those large amounts of Muslim long years ago. If i were them, i never accept those large Muslim populations but they needed those people to work at factories and clean toilets of course after the war as Europe was suffering from lack of manpower so with their efforts, all those factories worked and Europe developed and get away from the rubbles and rubble economy of war.

and now Syrians, i totally understand why Europe does not want them claiming national threat but what about 2.5 million Syrians in Turkey and 1.5 million Syrians in Lebanon and another million in Jordan? So, these countries will suffer and shoulder the burden and rest of the world watch? If they watch which they are still watching, than it is the right of Turkey and these countries to open the immigrant flood gates wider and no one can complain about it and blame those countries.

and you say Turkey supports ISIS and islamists and jihaids. in the meantime, last three months, there were two big bombings by ISIS militants in Turkey and 170 people perished. Again and again, France is not the only country suffered from ISIS and actually Turkey suffers from ISIS a lot more.

check the last bombing done my ISIS which was last month. Over 100 people died and it is the deadliest terror attack in Turkish history so far but of course people around the world dont care about Turkey as much as they care for France for mysterious reasons i guess as it was not a big news like the carnage in Paris.

DELETED

Turkey actively hit ISIS targets with its planes and artillery and there are always some border skirmishes between Turkish army and ISIS militants. ISIS are cockroaches and verb 'kill' cannot be used for them. Instead verb 'exterminate' like we do for bugs needs to be used bc these are not human.

[angiolo]

Now being reported as a Russian plane and Russia are claiming it was flying over Syria when shot down. Both pilots are OK.

Turkey will no doubt be looking to NATO for support now.

Turkey not be in NATO they are just a bunch of trouble makers,eg North Cyprus. And to think they are hopeful of being a member of EU.It would be crazy to defend the likes of Turkey against the Russians.WW3..The end of the human race and lots more extinctions. Will the leaders of the West really defend Turkey...SHEER MADNESS

[maykilceksin]

Russia has to bomb everybody.

They are all fighting Assad.

You can't pick and choose rebels...everybody gets smoked.

The turkmen should then bugger off back to turkey if they don't like assad….i hope russia lays waste to that entire area….if you're carrying a weapon and you're not in the syrian army uniform, you're fair game.

is it Russia's business to do that?

Let Assad do it by his army!

that is fair game. it is not fair for people living there for thousands of years get bombed by Russia which is a Northern country thousands of km away and it has no ethnic and historical relationship on that are too.

Russia and Syria have a defense treaty. It's fully legitimate according to international laws that Russia is conducting military actions in Syria.

Assads popular Army is composed of volunteering citizens like Armenians, Kurds, Arabs, Christians, Sunni's, Shia's, Alawites, Alevites,...

Syria has a long history of integration of refugees wich benefit of equal rights like every other Syrian citizens.

I think there's even a Palestinian General in Syria Army. Many Turkish Armenians fled to Syria just before and after the Armenian genocide. Idem dito for the Turkish Christians, Alawites and Alevites. And the Kurds.

If you know a little bit more of Turkish/Syrian history you would understand that many Syrian refugees are now in Turkish refugee camps alongside the Turkish border. To know that many of them are owner of legitimate chanotes dating from the Ottoman Empire are are now refugees on their own lands...

Hatay province was never intended to be Turkish according to Sykes-Picot 1 agreement. It was a 'gift' from the French protectorate. The Turks also received a long strip of land alongside the ancient Turkish/Syrian border. Idem dito for the Kurdish plateaus who became Turkish.

Just to explain basically the Turkish engagement and non-cooperation for the end of Syrian civil war...

The so called treaty between Russia and Syria is not legitimate and it is not recognized by any other country except Russia and Syria.

Syria is a divided country now and Assad holds a small portion of it so he cannot decide the fate of the whole country anymore.

so, what if Ukraine signs a treaty with NATO, EU or USA now and allow them to protect their land? Will Russia be OK with that?

Assad popular army which uses chemical weapons toward their own citizens - maybe that is how it is popular now:) - so who ever involves in that army might be standing in trial at the 'International Criminal Court' later on.

and Syrian integrates minorities? Please check your history knowledge as it is poor. Syria is ruled by Assad family and they are tyrants. They only supported their own kinship 'Alawites' and rest of the country always suffered especially Christians and

just a simple search:

DELETED

human rights watch:

DELETED

i know a lot about Turkish-Syrian history and how France and Brits draw that border those times. but you clearly dont know much.

Those refugees holding land papers of the land belong to them in Syria which was belong to Ottoman Empire before. so, what is the relation with Turkey?

Plus there are 2.5 million official and 1 million unofficial Syrian living in Turkey now, good or bad but at least away from harm and war and Russian and Assad regime bombs and they are not hungry and most have a place to stay, some work and it is also a national security threat for Turkey to keep that many Syrians still Turkey takes care of them while all over Europe and world watching without doing anything, you have to appreciate that as at least some people are doing something for humanity so we dont feel ashamed a lot as humans.

Edited November 26, 2015 by seedy
off topic

[manarak]

Even if the Turkish version of the flight paths is true, the Russian plane never had a trajectory penetrating deeper into Turkish airpace.

it becomes increasing clear that Turkey planned this and just waited on a petty opportunity to shoot a Russian plane down.

it's all about their support for the Allah Akhbar shouting Turkmen militia outfits in that area which are led on the ground by Turkish fascists.

The Turkmen are not arabs. They are ethnic Turks. Have been abused by Assad and are fighting back. So Russia bombs them. And that makes Turkey mad as Russia keeps saying they are bombing ISIS, which these Turkmen rebels are trying to fight. A mess. Russia should stick to bombing ISIS.

Well, being Turkmen doesn't stop them from speaking arabic in the video!

*IF* these on the video are Turkmen at all!

And BTW, being Turkmen doesn't make them non-islamist or non-terrorist. Look at what they are doing in China (attacking random people with swords) and what they did in Thailand.

And the leader of that Turkmen brigade belongs to the grey wolves, a terrorist organization.

Edited November 26, 2015 by manarak

[Chicog]

Now being reported as a Russian plane and Russia are claiming it was flying over Syria when shot down. Both pilots are OK.

Turkey will no doubt be looking to NATO for support now.

Turkey not be in NATO they are just a bunch of trouble makers,eg North Cyprus. And to think they are hopeful of being a member of EU.It would be crazy to defend the likes of Turkey against the Russians.WW3..The end of the human race and lots more extinctions. Will the leaders of the West really defend Turkey...SHEER MADNESS

All I can say is ---- Putin.

Good for Turkey for shoving one up him.

[manarak]

Putin has no business bombing anti-Daesh Turkmen which are literally at the Turkey border. It is provocative by Putin and Putin knows it. Putin needs to bomb Daesh, not Turkey supported anti-Assad rebels based literally at the border.

Putin has been bombing US & Coalition supported rebels most of which Turkey also supports. The US & Coalition with its partners such as UK and France want Assad out.

Putin went in to save Assad from widespread rebel gains throughout this year. The gains had caused Assad to consider relocating from Damascus where his palace grounds were being hit by mortar rounds and other shelling. Assad had been actively preparing to relocate to Latakia on the coast which is perhaps the ultimate Alawite stronghold.

Erdogan has howled publicly the past couple of months about Russian jets violating Turkey air space and bombing Turkmen locales. Violations by Russian AF fighter/bomber jets have occurred regularly throughout Putin's air assaults against rebels Erdogan supports. Putin is doing this borderline bombing from the air consciously, deliberately..

So Erdogan whacked Putin a good one and gave Putin a bloody nose. No one had ever done that. Erdogan is nobody's favorite but good on him for packing some punch against Putin. The arrogant Erdogan does have a short fuse yet Putin continues with his provocations. After all, Erdogan doesn't pop off to shoot down the aircraft of neighboring countries that might violate Turkish air space. Neither do countries such as Greece blast Turkish planes that do the same.

Now Putin is escalating further by bringing in surface to air anti-aircraft missiles. The introduction of the ak-ak missiles is a statement to Erdogan and the Turkish military high command. Putin bombing at the Turkey border actually seems throughout to be looking for a confrontation with Turkey too. Which is to say Nato. If Putin does want to test Nato, it would be his worst idea in a succession of years of amazingly dummkofpt ideas.

Because Turkey is a Nato country, it is technically true Nato shot down the Russian flying junk jet. Nato has not tried to separate itself from Erdogan's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter nor of the death that occurred. Nato was formed to resist and defend against Soviet Russia. Putin remains exactly that.

And it's certainly up to you, as a mouthpiece of US policy on this forum, to tell Putin what his business is...

"bloody nose" don't make me laugh, the loss of a plane and a helicopter did as much damage to Putin as a flea catapulted with twice the speed of sound against a tank. Putin emerges politically far ahead of Erdogan from this confrontation which was a good opportunity to show the whole world the dark sides of Turkish policy in the region.

The truth is, US policy leads to chaos in the region, because the majority of the so-called FSA and affiliated forces are islamists. The US has no plan on how to control the territory once Assad is gone, it will be a giant bloodbath, everyone knows it, and the islamists will come out as victors.

In Egypt, the army avoided *in extremis* Muslim Brotherhood rule over the country. But after Assad, there won't be any army in Syria and the secular forces will have either been eliminated by the islamists or will have fled abroad.

I read a few days ago an editorial in another language, which I will translate for you:

The meeting between Putin and Iran's leader resulted in clear support for Assad's regime in Syria. Both Putin and the Iranian probably consider Assad's crimes as loathworthy as we do. But the difference is that they value order and stability more than we value liberty. We may not share this opinion, but we shouldn't condemn it in a knee jerk reaction either. Toppling regimes often meant death for a large number of people, as recently in Egypt, Lybia and Irak. Realpolitik begins with the insight, that decisions sometimes have no innocent options to choose from.

It becomes increasingly clear that the US are pursuing their own interests in Syria, the objective of bringing peace and democracy to Syria as an objective of the war has never been more secondary than now.

After Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the US should learn their lesson that there are no "useful islamists". They invariably all end up turning against the US. But it seems the US are slow learners.

Now a 100$ question: what do you think is the reason why the US didn't supply AA armaments to ISIS "moderate anti-Assad fighters"?

Edited November 26, 2015 by manarak

[Publicus]

Off topic or not, the Russians have a long history of shooting first and asking questions later (if at all)

I guess everyone has forgotten their shooting down of a commercial Korean Air 747 flight 007 where 269 pax died in 1983 and forcing down Korean Air 707 Flight 902 in 1978, where luckily only two passengers died

A few days earlier the RAF had to "escort" Russian Bombers on their way to Syria via the Med

flight path.jpg

The two Russian bombers took the European scenic route before hitting anti-Assad rebels in Syria.

The bombers flew 360 degrees along the borders of Nato. They flew north, west, south, east, then finally straight up north again.

One glance at the map shows the south-north axis of the most efficient and safe route for the Russian bombers, i.e., the return route at the right that the bombers did take. The unnecessarily circuitous 360 degree routing does however make a geopolitical statement to Nato by Putin (and Assad; Tehran).

Putin however is not as focused on Nato as he may seem. Putin seems to think the legitimate beef Nato has with Putin is simply a beef between Putin and Turkey singularly and alone. The miscalculation is both risky and reckless. Dangerous.

[maykilceksin]

Putin has no business bombing anti-Daesh Turkmen which are literally at the Turkey border. It is provocative by Putin and Putin knows it. Putin needs to bomb Daesh, not Turkey supported anti-Assad rebels based literally at the border.

Putin has been bombing US & Coalition supported rebels most of which Turkey also supports. The US & Coalition with its partners such as UK and France want Assad out.

Putin went in to save Assad from widespread rebel gains throughout this year. The gains had caused Assad to consider relocating from Damascus where his palace grounds were being hit by mortar rounds and other shelling. Assad had been actively preparing to relocate to Latakia on the coast which is perhaps the ultimate Alawite stronghold.

Erdogan has howled publicly the past couple of months about Russian jets violating Turkey air space and bombing Turkmen locales. Violations by Russian AF fighter/bomber jets have occurred regularly throughout Putin's air assaults against rebels Erdogan supports. Putin is doing this borderline bombing from the air consciously, deliberately..

So Erdogan whacked Putin a good one and gave Putin a bloody nose. No one had ever done that. Erdogan is nobody's favorite but good on him for packing some punch against Putin. The arrogant Erdogan does have a short fuse yet Putin continues with his provocations. After all, Erdogan doesn't pop off to shoot down the aircraft of neighboring countries that might violate Turkish air space. Neither do countries such as Greece blast Turkish planes that do the same.

Now Putin is escalating further by bringing in surface to air anti-aircraft missiles. The introduction of the ak-ak missiles is a statement to Erdogan and the Turkish military high command. Putin bombing at the Turkey border actually seems throughout to be looking for a confrontation with Turkey too. Which is to say Nato. If Putin does want to test Nato, it would be his worst idea in a succession of years of amazingly dummkofpt ideas.

Because Turkey is a Nato country, it is technically true Nato shot down the Russian flying junk jet. Nato has not tried to separate itself from Erdogan's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter nor of the death that occurred. Nato was formed to resist and defend against Soviet Russia. Putin remains exactly that.

And it's certainly up to you, as a mouthpiece of US policy on this forum, to tell Putin what his business is...

"bloody nose" don't make me laugh, the loss of a plane and a helicopter did as much damage to Putin as a flea catapulted with twice the speed of sound against a tank. Putin emerges politically far ahead of Erdogan from this confrontation which was a good opportunity to show the whole world the dark sides of Turkish policy in the region.

The truth is, US policy leads to chaos in the region, because the majority of the so-called FSA and affiliated forces are islamists. The US has no plan on how to control the territory once Assad is gone, it will be a giant bloodbath, everyone knows it, and the islamists will come out as victors.

In Egypt, the army avoided *in extremis* Muslim Brotherhood rule over the country. But after Assad, there won't be any army in Syria and the secular forces will have either been eliminated by the islamists or will have fled abroad.

I read a few days ago an editorial in another language, which I will translate for you:

The meeting between Putin and Iran's leader resulted in clear support for Assad's regime in Syria. Both Putin and the Iranian probably consider Assad's crimes as loathworthy as we do. But the difference is that they value order and stability more than we value liberty. We may not share this opinion, but we shouldn't condemn it in a knee jerk reaction either. Toppling regimes often meant death for a large number of people, as recently in Egypt, Lybia and Irak. Realpolitik begins with the insight, that decisions sometimes have no innocent options to choose from.

It becomes increasingly clear that the US are pursuing their own interests in Syria, the objective of bringing peace and democracy to Syria as an objective of the war has never been more secondary than now.

After Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the US should learn their lesson that there are no "useful islamists". They invariably all end up turning against the US. But it seems the US are slow learners.

Now a 100$ question: what do you think is the reason why the US didn't supply AA armaments to ISIS "moderate anti-Assad fighters"?

stability in Syria by Assad?)

very funny.

so Syria is stable now, aye just bc Assad is there?

Syria is not stable and it is all because of Assad and its lapdog expansionist Russia. And that is the reason for ISIS to grow powerful.

Iran supports Syria for the same way as Russia, to create stronger sphere of influence on Shiite population in Syria and gain some bases and land.

so, if you listen Russia and Iran, it means you are listening tyrants and dictators and islamist bigots.

and of course, turkey has its agenda in that region. it is Turkey own region, not Russia's not US's. They live there for more than a millennium when there was no USA or Russia.

And who are you? Someone living out of that region maybe thousands of kms away but Turks leave there at that chamber of fire ans suffer for decades, it is their right to do whatever to protect their national security.

it is easy to comment for you from thousands of kms away. what about the people living there at war just across their borders?

Edited November 26, 2015 by maykilceksin

[Langsuan Man]

The two Russian bombers took the European scenic route before hitting anti-Assad rebels in Syria.

The bombers flew 360 degrees along the borders of Nato. They flew north, west, south, east, then finally straight up north again.

One glance at the map shows the south-north axis of the most efficient and safe route for the Russian bombers, i.e., the return route at the right that the bombers did take. The unnecessarily circuitous 360 degree routing does however make a geopolitical statement to Nato by Putin (and Assad; Tehran).

Putin however is not as focused on Nato as he may seem. Putin seems to think the legitimate beef Nato has with Putin is simply a beef between Putin and Turkey singularly and alone. The miscalculation is both risky and reckless. Dangerous.

And maybe Turkey decided that they were not going to let Putin make a "geopolitical statement" using their air space, especially by hitting anti-Assad rebels, when their purpose for being in the region is ostensibly to fight against ISIS, not bolster the Assad regime

[Thorgal]

Off topic or not, the Russians have a long history of shooting first and asking questions later (if at all)

I guess everyone has forgotten their shooting down of a commercial Korean Air 747 flight 007 where 269 pax died in 1983 and forcing down Korean Air 707 Flight 902 in 1978, where luckily only two passengers died

A few days earlier the RAF had to "escort" Russian Bombers on their way to Syria via the Med

flight path.jpg

The two Russian bombers took the European scenic route before hitting anti-Assad rebels in Syria.

The bombers flew 360 degrees along the borders of Nato. They flew north, west, south, east, then finally straight up north again.

One glance at the map shows the south-north axis of the most efficient and safe route for the Russian bombers, i.e., the return route at the right that the bombers did take. The unnecessarily circuitous 360 degree routing does however make a geopolitical statement to Nato by Putin (and Assad; Tehran).

Putin however is not as focused on Nato as he may seem. Putin seems to think the legitimate beef Nato has with Putin is simply a beef between Putin and Turkey singularly and alone. The miscalculation is both risky and reckless. Dangerous.

Again, you're trying in vain to push your 'star and stripes' rhetoric by downplaying the Russian intervention and providing false analogies...

The Turkmen are militants who support all weapons trafficking from Turkey into Syria.

Many Turkmen joined ISIS to fight the Kurds. The so called 'moderates' are ethnically cleansing the border region since the beginning of the Syrian civil war. They are supported by the Turkish AK Party who encouraged Turkmen to join ISIS.

Transition or infiltration of Western Jihadi's happens through Syrian Turkmen region.

Multiple trucks from Turkey with weapons were stopped at check points once the local Turkmen militants were eliminated.

Russia is striking now for one month and many Turkmen positions have been lost. Which irritated Ankara.

Last Turkmen positions still standing have an important logistic and defense role for Turkish involvement. They will be crushed soon.

The Turkish NATO umbrella won't work for the Turkmen...

Interesting article : SOS Call from Turkmen before striking the Russian plane and helicopter to Ankara...

http://www.todayszaman.com/diplomacy_syrian-turkmens-ask-for-turkeys-help-under-heavy-bombardment-by-assad-russia_404962.html

Edited November 26, 2015 by Thorgal

[Richard W]

The turkmen should then bugger off back to turkey if they don't like assad.i hope russia lays waste to that entire area.if you're carrying a weapon and you're not in the syrian army uniform, you're fair game.

Why not ask them to bugger off back to Central Asia while you're at it?

[maykilceksin]

Off topic or not, the Russians have a long history of shooting first and asking questions later (if at all)

I guess everyone has forgotten their shooting down of a commercial Korean Air 747 flight 007 where 269 pax died in 1983 and forcing down Korean Air 707 Flight 902 in 1978, where luckily only two passengers died

A few days earlier the RAF had to "escort" Russian Bombers on their way to Syria via the Med

flight path.jpg

The two Russian bombers took the European scenic route before hitting anti-Assad rebels in Syria.

The bombers flew 360 degrees along the borders of Nato. They flew north, west, south, east, then finally straight up north again.

One glance at the map shows the south-north axis of the most efficient and safe route for the Russian bombers, i.e., the return route at the right that the bombers did take. The unnecessarily circuitous 360 degree routing does however make a geopolitical statement to Nato by Putin (and Assad; Tehran).

Putin however is not as focused on Nato as he may seem. Putin seems to think the legitimate beef Nato has with Putin is simply a beef between Putin and Turkey singularly and alone. The miscalculation is both risky and reckless. Dangerous.

Again, you're trying in vain to push your 'star and stripes' rhetoric by downplaying the Russian intervention and providing false analogies...

The Turkmen are militants who support all weapons trafficking from Turkey into Syria.

Many Turkmen joined ISIS to fight the Kurds. The so called 'moderates' are ethnically cleansing the border region since the beginning of the Syrian civil war. They are supported by the Turkish AK Party who encouraged Turkmen to join ISIS.

Transition or infiltration of Western Jihadi's happens through Syrian Turkmen region.

Multiple trucks from Turkey with weapons were stopped at check points once the local Turkmen militants were eliminated.

Russia is striking now for one month and many Turkmen positions have been lost. Which irritated Ankara.

Last Turkmen positions still standing have an important logistic and defense role for Turkish involvement. They will be crushed soon.

The Turkish NATO umbrella won't work for the Turkmen...

Interesting article : SOS Call from Turkmen before striking the Russian plane and helicopter to Ankara...

DELETED

isnt Russia there to fight with ISIS? this is how they cheated on international community, by using fears of millions, they convinced everybody like they were fighting with ISIS.

but no, they are fighting with rebels fighting with ISIS and Assad and offering protection like a mafia boss offer protection in return for bases and land.

why Russia is attacking Turkmens? Reason? Just because, they do what Assad wants, Assad whistles, Russians jump on their jets! Russians want land in Syria and Turkmens are close to the land they want. And Russia with its expansionist policies will do all the necessary a..s kissing of Assad to get that by killing all rebel forces fighting with Assad.

ISIS? DO you think Assad or Russia cares about ISIS? ISIS is just a leverage for them to convince the world to stay in power so RUssian can take their land.

So they support ISIS by buying oil from them and other ways like sharing revenue at some regions and in return they keep ISIS safe at those places, just recently US blacklisted some high profile Russian and their companies involved on buying oil from ISIS:

DELETED

if Turks are protecting their ethnic kin, it is totally their right in their region 10 km away from their border same as Russia and same as any other country. Russia can find the right to go all the way to Syria and help and arm bloody Assad (maybe with chemical weapons too) and Turkey cannot help and assist their kin for their defense? C'mon.

and please provide the sources you took all those information so we get enlightened as well.

Edited November 26, 2015 by seedy
off topic

[Publicus]

Putin has no business bombing anti-Daesh Turkmen which are literally at the Turkey border. It is provocative by Putin and Putin knows it. Putin needs to bomb Daesh, not Turkey supported anti-Assad rebels based literally at the border.

Putin has been bombing US & Coalition supported rebels most of which Turkey also supports. The US & Coalition with its partners such as UK and France want Assad out.

Putin went in to save Assad from widespread rebel gains throughout this year. The gains had caused Assad to consider relocating from Damascus where his palace grounds were being hit by mortar rounds and other shelling. Assad had been actively preparing to relocate to Latakia on the coast which is perhaps the ultimate Alawite stronghold.

Erdogan has howled publicly the past couple of months about Russian jets violating Turkey air space and bombing Turkmen locales. Violations by Russian AF fighter/bomber jets have occurred regularly throughout Putin's air assaults against rebels Erdogan supports. Putin is doing this borderline bombing from the air consciously, deliberately..

So Erdogan whacked Putin a good one and gave Putin a bloody nose. No one had ever done that. Erdogan is nobody's favorite but good on him for packing some punch against Putin. The arrogant Erdogan does have a short fuse yet Putin continues with his provocations. After all, Erdogan doesn't pop off to shoot down the aircraft of neighboring countries that might violate Turkish air space. Neither do countries such as Greece blast Turkish planes that do the same.

Now Putin is escalating further by bringing in surface to air anti-aircraft missiles. The introduction of the ak-ak missiles is a statement to Erdogan and the Turkish military high command. Putin bombing at the Turkey border actually seems throughout to be looking for a confrontation with Turkey too. Which is to say Nato. If Putin does want to test Nato, it would be his worst idea in a succession of years of amazingly dummkofpt ideas.

Because Turkey is a Nato country, it is technically true Nato shot down the Russian flying junk jet. Nato has not tried to separate itself from Erdogan's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter nor of the death that occurred. Nato was formed to resist and defend against Soviet Russia. Putin remains exactly that.

And it's certainly up to you, as a mouthpiece of US policy on this forum, to tell Putin what his business is...

"bloody nose" don't make me laugh, the loss of a plane and a helicopter did as much damage to Putin as a flea catapulted with twice the speed of sound against a tank. Putin emerges politically far ahead of Erdogan from this confrontation which was a good opportunity to show the whole world the dark sides of Turkish policy in the region.

The truth is, US policy leads to chaos in the region, because the majority of the so-called FSA and affiliated forces are islamists. The US has no plan on how to control the territory once Assad is gone, it will be a giant bloodbath, everyone knows it, and the islamists will come out as victors.

In Egypt, the army avoided *in extremis* Muslim Brotherhood rule over the country. But after Assad, there won't be any army in Syria and the secular forces will have either been eliminated by the islamists or will have fled abroad.

I read a few days ago an editorial in another language, which I will translate for you:

The meeting between Putin and Iran's leader resulted in clear support for Assad's regime in Syria. Both Putin and the Iranian probably consider Assad's crimes as loathworthy as we do. But the difference is that they value order and stability more than we value liberty. We may not share this opinion, but we shouldn't condemn it in a knee jerk reaction either. Toppling regimes often meant death for a large number of people, as recently in Egypt, Lybia and Irak. Realpolitik begins with the insight, that decisions sometimes have no innocent options to choose from.

It becomes increasingly clear that the US are pursuing their own interests in Syria, the objective of bringing peace and democracy to Syria as an objective of the war has never been more secondary than now.

After Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the US should learn their lesson that there are no "useful islamists". They invariably all end up turning against the US. But it seems the US are slow learners.

Now a 100$ question: what do you think is the reason why the US didn't supply AA armaments to ISIS "moderate anti-Assad fighters"?

And it's certainly up to you, as a mouthpiece of US policy on this forum, to tell Putin what his business is...

You'd have to say what US policy is. All I know is Assad must go. And that there are an objectionable assortment of fighters in Syria who advocate same. Also a 65 government coalition led by the US which are dealing daily in ME realpolitik. Thx for the translation btw but next time say something I don't already know. If you think you're dealing with a glib or trite PR shill or chest thumper then you'd have to pull your head out. Sooner the better.

After Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the US should learn their lesson that there are no "useful islamists". They invariably all end up turning against the US. But it seems the US are slow learners.

So then, you'd need to adhere to your own advice to not dictate to countries what their 'business' is. It's also good to read in the post the realisation the US acts in its own self-interest. Congrats on figuring that out. Nato is an instance of a US initiative in its own interest and in a common interest, Nato was formed in 1949 to defend Europe against Soviet Russia and Putin is very much the present incarnation of it.

Now a 100$ question: what do you think is the reason why the US didn't supply AA armaments to ISIS "moderate anti-Assad fighters"?

State your point which you had before posing the transparent inquiry. It's self-embarrassing when trying to be cute only means falling on one's face. My own thinking from the outset of the Russian involvement in Syria is that supplying AA to any or all the rebels is a bad idea cause it would escalate hostilities in an unpredictable series/sequence of armaments action-reaction ad infinitum. Your own answer to your own question btw is best entered into your own personal diary.

"bloody nose" don't make me laugh, the loss of a plane and a helicopter did as much damage to Putin as a flea catapulted with twice the speed of sound against a tank

The quote is but one of several ways in which I characterised Turkey's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter/bomber piloted by a crackerjack box pilot of the Russian Air Forces. One of the other ways i described the plane being blasted out of the sky using a US F-16 is that it was a kick in the balls of Putin. Another time I posted it was to Putin a good swift kick. I'd also noted in another post Putin was being treated for a nosebleed complicated by sore nuts.

So anyway thx for sharing your concerns about the Middle East as a direct reply to one of my posts. Look forward to your continued attention.

[manarak]

Putin has no business bombing anti-Daesh Turkmen which are literally at the Turkey border. It is provocative by Putin and Putin knows it. Putin needs to bomb Daesh, not Turkey supported anti-Assad rebels based literally at the border.

Putin has been bombing US & Coalition supported rebels most of which Turkey also supports. The US & Coalition with its partners such as UK and France want Assad out.

Putin went in to save Assad from widespread rebel gains throughout this year. The gains had caused Assad to consider relocating from Damascus where his palace grounds were being hit by mortar rounds and other shelling. Assad had been actively preparing to relocate to Latakia on the coast which is perhaps the ultimate Alawite stronghold.

Erdogan has howled publicly the past couple of months about Russian jets violating Turkey air space and bombing Turkmen locales. Violations by Russian AF fighter/bomber jets have occurred regularly throughout Putin's air assaults against rebels Erdogan supports. Putin is doing this borderline bombing from the air consciously, deliberately..

So Erdogan whacked Putin a good one and gave Putin a bloody nose. No one had ever done that. Erdogan is nobody's favorite but good on him for packing some punch against Putin. The arrogant Erdogan does have a short fuse yet Putin continues with his provocations. After all, Erdogan doesn't pop off to shoot down the aircraft of neighboring countries that might violate Turkish air space. Neither do countries such as Greece blast Turkish planes that do the same.

Now Putin is escalating further by bringing in surface to air anti-aircraft missiles. The introduction of the ak-ak missiles is a statement to Erdogan and the Turkish military high command. Putin bombing at the Turkey border actually seems throughout to be looking for a confrontation with Turkey too. Which is to say Nato. If Putin does want to test Nato, it would be his worst idea in a succession of years of amazingly dummkofpt ideas.

Because Turkey is a Nato country, it is technically true Nato shot down the Russian flying junk jet. Nato has not tried to separate itself from Erdogan's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter nor of the death that occurred. Nato was formed to resist and defend against Soviet Russia. Putin remains exactly that.

And it's certainly up to you, as a mouthpiece of US policy on this forum, to tell Putin what his business is...

"bloody nose" don't make me laugh, the loss of a plane and a helicopter did as much damage to Putin as a flea catapulted with twice the speed of sound against a tank. Putin emerges politically far ahead of Erdogan from this confrontation which was a good opportunity to show the whole world the dark sides of Turkish policy in the region.

The truth is, US policy leads to chaos in the region, because the majority of the so-called FSA and affiliated forces are islamists. The US has no plan on how to control the territory once Assad is gone, it will be a giant bloodbath, everyone knows it, and the islamists will come out as victors.

In Egypt, the army avoided *in extremis* Muslim Brotherhood rule over the country. But after Assad, there won't be any army in Syria and the secular forces will have either been eliminated by the islamists or will have fled abroad.

I read a few days ago an editorial in another language, which I will translate for you:

The meeting between Putin and Iran's leader resulted in clear support for Assad's regime in Syria. Both Putin and the Iranian probably consider Assad's crimes as loathworthy as we do. But the difference is that they value order and stability more than we value liberty. We may not share this opinion, but we shouldn't condemn it in a knee jerk reaction either. Toppling regimes often meant death for a large number of people, as recently in Egypt, Lybia and Irak. Realpolitik begins with the insight, that decisions sometimes have no innocent options to choose from.

It becomes increasingly clear that the US are pursuing their own interests in Syria, the objective of bringing peace and democracy to Syria as an objective of the war has never been more secondary than now.

After Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the US should learn their lesson that there are no "useful islamists". They invariably all end up turning against the US. But it seems the US are slow learners.

Now a 100$ question: what do you think is the reason why the US didn't supply AA armaments to ISIS "moderate anti-Assad fighters"?

And it's certainly up to you, as a mouthpiece of US policy on this forum, to tell Putin what his business is...

You'd have to say what US policy is. All I know is Assad must go. And that there are an objectionable assortment of fighters in Syria who advocate same. Also a 65 government coalition led by the US which are dealing daily in ME realpolitik. Thx for the translation btw but next time say something I don't already know. If you think you're dealing with a glib or trite PR shill or chest thumper then you'd have to pull your head out. Sooner the better.

After Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the US should learn their lesson that there are no "useful islamists". They invariably all end up turning against the US. But it seems the US are slow learners.

So then, you'd need to adhere to your own advice to not dictate to countries what their 'business' is. It's also good to read in the post the realisation the US acts in its own self-interest. Congrats on figuring that out. Nato is an instance of a US initiative in its own interest and in a common interest, Nato was formed in 1949 to defend Europe against Soviet Russia and Putin is very much the present incarnation of it.

Now a 100$ question: what do you think is the reason why the US didn't supply AA armaments to ISIS "moderate anti-Assad fighters"?

State your point which you had before posing the transparent inquiry. It's self-embarrassing when trying to be cute only means falling on one's face. My own thinking from the outset of the Russian involvement in Syria is that supplying AA to any or all the rebels is a bad idea cause it would escalate hostilities in an unpredictable series/sequence of armaments action-reaction ad infinitum. Your own answer to your own question btw is best entered into your own personal diary.

"bloody nose" don't make me laugh, the loss of a plane and a helicopter did as much damage to Putin as a flea catapulted with twice the speed of sound against a tank

The quote is but one of several ways in which I characterised Turkey's shootdown of the Russian Air Force fighter/bomber piloted by a crackerjack box pilot of the Russian Air Forces. One of the other ways i described the plane being blasted out of the sky using a US F-16 is that it was a kick in the balls of Putin. Another time I posted it was to Putin a good swift kick. I'd also noted in another post Putin was being treated for a nosebleed complicated by sore nuts.

So anyway thx for sharing your concerns about the Middle East as a direct reply to one of my posts. Look forward to your continued attention.

I suppose that's the closest to conceding a point I have ever read from you on the forum :-)

and no quoted piece of remotely relevant PR from US-aligned media either !

LOL

[Chicog]

if Turks are protecting their ethnic kin, it is totally their right in their region 10 km away from their border same as Russia and same as any other country. Russia can find the right to go all the way to Syria and help and arm bloody Assad (maybe with chemical weapons too) and Turkey cannot help and assist their kin for their defense? C'mon.

and please provide the sources you took all those information so we get enlightened as well.

We all know Putin tells lies, "MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian aircraft", "There are no Russian soldiers in Crimea, just holidaymakers", etc. etc.

Only a chump would believe the baloney Putin trots out through his mouthpiece RT.

[seedy]

Off Topic Posts edited

Please stay on topic

[JHolmesJr]

They make it sound like assad is some sort of a global menace…he only became a bad guy because obama said so.

He doesn't take shit from people in his own country and he used to run it pretty ok….till obama said he didn't.

Are they going to attack burma next because the buddhist are butchering the rohingyas? Or liberate black america from trigger-happy cops?

No F%^$& way.

These people have their own way….they should be left alone.

Reckon the turkmen should be kicked out pronto….they don't belong in syria….anyone fighting assad should be bombed till they bawl.

[Usernames]

If Russia thinks it's going to mount a meaningful threat to Turkey, it will need to invade either Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine, Romania and/or Bulgaria to get there. The map has changed since 1991. Of course, Putin has already invaded Ukraine, but he started at the wrong end to get to Turkey.I don't think they would be dumb enough to try a modern day Gallipoli--but you never know how much a numbskull Putin is.

[2fishin2]

They make it sound like assad is some sort of a global menace…he only became a bad guy because obama said so.

He doesn't take shit from people in his own country and he used to run it pretty ok….till obama said he didn't.

Are they going to attack burma next because the buddhist are butchering the rohingyas? Or liberate black america from trigger-happy cops?

No F%^$& way.

These people have their own way….they should be left alone.

Reckon the turkmen should be kicked out pronto….they don't belong in syria….anyone fighting assad should be bombed till they bawl.

You know you are right, rolling crude backyard barrel bombs out the doors of helicopters into the middle of his own towns and people coupled with the fact that he gassed those same towns and villages killing many innocent children and civilians makes him the most standup guy on the face of the earth....

He should be nominated for a Noble Peace Prize for his actions.

Your post is ridiculous!

[Thongkorn]

Now being reported as a Russian plane and Russia are claiming it was flying over Syria when shot down. Both pilots are OK.

Turkey will no doubt be looking to NATO for support now.

Turkey not be in NATO they are just a bunch of trouble makers,eg North Cyprus. And to think they are hopeful of being a member of EU.It would be crazy to defend the likes of Turkey against the Russians.WW3..The end of the human race and lots more extinctions. Will the leaders of the West really defend Turkey...SHEER MADNESS

So was the beginning of world war one, no one wanted to go to war,

[JHolmesJr]

They make it sound like assad is some sort of a global menacehe only became a bad guy because obama said so.

He doesn't take shit from people in his own country and he used to run it pretty ok.till obama said he didn't.

Are they going to attack burma next because the buddhist are butchering the rohingyas? Or liberate black america from trigger-happy cops?

No F%^$& way.

These people have their own way.they should be left alone.

Reckon the turkmen should be kicked out pronto.they don't belong in syria.anyone fighting assad should be bombed till they bawl.

You know you are right, rolling crude backyard barrel bombs out the doors of helicopters into the middle of his own towns and people coupled with the fact that he gassed those same towns and villages killing many innocent children and civilians makes him the most standup guy on the face of the earth....

He should be nominated for a Noble Peace Prize for his actions.

Your post is ridiculous!

Well at least he didnt drag a dozen countries into a goddamn quagmire.

[Gulfsailor]

Russia just ordered all Russians to leave Turkey. This is getting scary...

Edited November 26, 2015 by Gulfsailor

[manarak]

Russia just ordered all Russians to leave Turkey. This is getting scary...

not scary at all, many will return to Thailand instead.

[2fishin2]

They make it sound like assad is some sort of a global menacehe only became a bad guy because obama said so.

He doesn't take shit from people in his own country and he used to run it pretty ok.till obama said he didn't.

Are they going to attack burma next because the buddhist are butchering the rohingyas? Or liberate black america from trigger-happy cops?

No F%^$& way.

These people have their own way.they should be left alone.

Reckon the turkmen should be kicked out pronto.they don't belong in syria.anyone fighting assad should be bombed till they bawl.

You know you are right, rolling crude backyard barrel bombs out the doors of helicopters into the middle of his own towns and people coupled with the fact that he gassed those same towns and villages killing many innocent children and civilians makes him the most standup guy on the face of the earth....

He should be nominated for a Noble Peace Prize for his actions.

Your post is ridiculous!

Well at least he didnt drag a dozen countries into a goddamn quagmire.

huh,

But for his own actions to his people, there wouldnt be "a dozen countries" there. His own actions caused ISIS to migrate to the country also.

[arjunadawn]

Assad is a piece of crap but it was not his actions that brought about DAESH. This is the fantasy tale they tell you in the media. Dig just a bit deeper. It is a contrived proxy war and Russia called the bluff of behalf of Iran and Syria. Have little use for any of them, but they did not start this.

Normally not a fan of fox but this clip is quite telling. A look at the map where the plane was shot down, the area Turkey says was violated, and the sped in which the plane was acquired and taken out, clearly demonstrate intent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2niLwNjX4

[Publicus]

Russia just ordered all Russians to leave Turkey. This is getting scary...

not scary at all, many will return to Thailand instead.

Now that's scary

Hope they don't get blown out of the skies along the way .