Newbie moving from UK early 2016 - I have loads of questions, hope it's ok post

[laislica]

Nestling in amongst your post, is one very very good piece of advice that for reasons that escape me you chose to put 'lol' after.

Leaving Western preconceptions, perspectives and expectations at the gate is not just something that applies to Thailand, but is essential to do when re-locating anywhere - especially to any country with a significantly different culture than one is accustomed to. The inability of so many to do this is why they end up in, as you put it 'a pit of despair and confusion'.

If one is constantly comparing their new 'adopted' home with their previous existence, and especially if in a negative way, then they are going to make themselves miserable. They also won't gain much acceptance or respect from the locals who really aren't that interested to hear about how good everything was, or how things are done differently in your home country. That in turn will just lead to an increasing sense of isolation and loneliness and so the circle continues.

Start with a clean sheet and there's every chance of finding happiness. If that cant be done or achieved then remember, the problem is not Thailand, the problem is one of an individuals inability\unwillingness to adapt.

Yo Shadychris . The 'lol' was actually a bit of a chuckle at my own foolishness I 'spose in relation to this and agree with you muchly...having my Thai GF stay with me in OZ has been great as it has allowed a degree of more open discussion about some of the more puzzling aspects of things-Thai...the big one I still have "trouble" with is the Thai inclination to tell a lie to save face/protect another's feelings and if/when exposed, tell a lie to cover the first lie (and so on....) ad infinitum. I see it as bordering (!) on shameless behavior, but.....well...now, I just see my dearest's WHOLE story as a tissue of untruths and I feel much more secure strangely enough lol. cheers, MP

@Tassleman

The white lie.... Hmmmmm

Same for me at first but it's been overcome.

We had a sit down talk and I explained that unless I knew what was troubling her I could not help and I would probably, eventually get angry - not good for either of us.

She lied or more likely, didn't tell me the whole truth/story.

She is the eldest of 5, her Dad remarried several times, producing many children.

Thus she has a large family and their problems are her problems, if you know what I mean.

She was scared that I would be put off by all her problems and eventually leave.

I said, if you hide the full story or tell lies, I will leave for sure.

It still needed me to give her reassurances that all was good even with her family problems.

Then her Mum died 3 years ago and last year her 19 yr old son was murdered in one of those polytechnic gang fights.

I was kept informed all the way and even the small stuff so I could cope with it all.

We also constantly remind each other how lucky we are to have found each other.

I am totally taken care of when we spend our half year in Thailand - she is the boss!

She is totally taken care of when we are in Spain for half a year - She is the boss!

I provide ample funds and so my wife knows what we have and can judge how much to help family and friends.

Funnily enough, in the beginning, it was "My money" and my wife gave generously.

After it became "Her money" she is much more sparing about how much she gives away or Tamboon (for lucky LOL).

It also took a while for her to "be the Boss", to trust me not to be checking up on her behind her back.

Trust is a two way street.

Our relationship is based on trust and it's great and even gets better....

That's my story, just sayin how I got round the problem.

You do what you have to - everyone is different, be lucky!

Good luck

[huawei]

Shadychris. I am not asking you to google anything for me, if I was that interested in other countries I would

do it myself. IMO, Thailand makes expats jump through too many unnecessary hoops, but I'm still better off here than the vastly overtaxed UK.

I stand by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term, and the Elite visa is

far too expensive for most people in that age group.

"Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term".

How so, does the UK, US, Australia or western Europe make it any easier!

The fact is that people who are aged under 50 and retired are not the historic norm and even today are in a very small minority, the presumption is that because they retired so early they will have access to large amounts of cash, hence the Elite visa, a valid assumption I believe.

I cannot speak for other countries, but the UK, unlike Thailand, has no room for more immigrants.

I think my views on the elite visa, and the hoops the under fifties have to jump through have been well documented.

We are only tolerated in Thailand for obvious reasons.

There's no hoops to the Elite visa, either you have the money or you don't, either you are prepared to pay for it or not, nothing unfair about any of that.

Discrimination purely by age is in itself unfair.

[chiang mai]

"Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term".

How so, does the UK, US, Australia or western Europe make it any easier!

The fact is that people who are aged under 50 and retired are not the historic norm and even today are in a very small minority, the presumption is that because they retired so early they will have access to large amounts of cash, hence the Elite visa, a valid assumption I believe.

I cannot speak for other countries, but the UK, unlike Thailand, has no room for more immigrants.

I think my views on the elite visa, and the hoops the under fifties have to jump through have been well documented.

We are only tolerated in Thailand for obvious reasons.

There's no hoops to the Elite visa, either you have the money or you don't, either you are prepared to pay for it or not, nothing unfair about any of that.

Discrimination purely by age is in itself unfair.

There's no age restriction with the Thailand Elite Card, not unless you call being over 20 years old a restriction!

[evadgib]

Living in Thailand

[Cypress Hill]

Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

And just what - EXACTLY - do you think retirees on goat cheese pensions are if not economic migrants?

[NoshowJones]

Shadychris. I am not asking you to google anything for me, if I was that interested in other countries I would

do it myself. IMO, Thailand makes expats jump through too many unnecessary hoops, but I'm still better off here than the vastly overtaxed UK.

I stand by what I say, Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term, and the Elite visa is

far too expensive for most people in that age group.

"Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term".

How so, does the UK, US, Australia or western Europe make it any easier!

The fact is that people who are aged under 50 and retired are not the historic norm and even today are in a very small minority, the presumption is that because they retired so early they will have access to large amounts of cash, hence the Elite visa, a valid assumption I believe.

I cannot speak for other countries, but the UK, unlike Thailand, has no room for more immigrants.

I think my views on the elite visa, and the hoops the under fifties have to jump through have been well documented.

We are only tolerated in Thailand for obvious reasons.

The reason the UK has no more room for immigrants is largely due to the open door situation that has arisen from EU membership. The UK population had 13% of non-UK born residents at the end of 2014 - projections indicate that if the current trends continue with no tightening of controls by 2020 that figure will rise to 23% and by 2035 around 45%! That is the reality of a situation where visa controls\regulations are either relaxed or dispensed with.

Your arguments seem to be consistently based on the reasoning of an 'unfair' situation. However Thailand, or for that matter any other country should not have any obligation to make it easy for immigrants to reside there permanently. You are welcome in Thailand if you have employment, if you have capital behind you or if you are supporting Thai family. If someone does not fit into any of those categories why should Thailand tolerate them for more than a normal holiday visit?

Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

If you want to argue on the grounds of fairness it is the case then that the UK is even more unfair - a Roma Gypsy family can now enter the UK and stay indefinitely, camped out on Public parks, begging and pickpocketing to make money, whereas it is quite difficult (not least expensive) to obtain a simple tourist visa for someone from SE Asia...

In my opinion Thailand's Visa regulations are already extremely accommodating, much more so than many other countries, and I suspect that I'm not the only one glad to see that action is now being taken to tighten them up.

I have to admit you do talk a lot of sense here, there is the odd one or two things I think the Thai government is unfair on, but no country is perfect.

[huawei]

"Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term".

How so, does the UK, US, Australia or western Europe make it any easier!

The fact is that people who are aged under 50 and retired are not the historic norm and even today are in a very small minority, the presumption is that because they retired so early they will have access to large amounts of cash, hence the Elite visa, a valid assumption I believe.

I cannot speak for other countries, but the UK, unlike Thailand, has no room for more immigrants.

I think my views on the elite visa, and the hoops the under fifties have to jump through have been well documented.

We are only tolerated in Thailand for obvious reasons.

There's no hoops to the Elite visa, either you have the money or you don't, either you are prepared to pay for it or not, nothing unfair about any of that.

Discrimination purely by age is in itself unfair.

There's no age restriction with the Thailand Elite Card, not unless you call being over 20 years old a restriction!

I was referring to the retirement visa with the arbitrary age of 50. If you have 800k, should suffice.

[chiang mai]

"Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term".

How so, does the UK, US, Australia or western Europe make it any easier!

The fact is that people who are aged under 50 and retired are not the historic norm and even today are in a very small minority, the presumption is that because they retired so early they will have access to large amounts of cash, hence the Elite visa, a valid assumption I believe.

I cannot speak for other countries, but the UK, unlike Thailand, has no room for more immigrants.

I think my views on the elite visa, and the hoops the under fifties have to jump through have been well documented.

We are only tolerated in Thailand for obvious reasons.

There's no hoops to the Elite visa, either you have the money or you don't, either you are prepared to pay for it or not, nothing unfair about any of that.

Discrimination purely by age is in itself unfair.

There's no age restriction with the Thailand Elite Card, not unless you call being over 20 years old a restriction!

I was referring to the retirement visa with the arbitrary age of 50. If you have 800k, should suffice.

Discrimination based on age is not unfair and it's evident, necessary and fair in most societies, for example:

Old people cannot get similar jobs to younger people, younger people are not provided with state pensions in favour of older people, younger people are prioritized over older people in medical scenarios, beautiful women prefer older people rather than younger ones because they are more experienced, settled and wealthier - should I continue.

PS: I'm teasing.

[Shadychris]

"Thailand is very unfair to people under fifty who want to stay here long term".

How so, does the UK, US, Australia or western Europe make it any easier!

The fact is that people who are aged under 50 and retired are not the historic norm and even today are in a very small minority, the presumption is that because they retired so early they will have access to large amounts of cash, hence the Elite visa, a valid assumption I believe.

I cannot speak for other countries, but the UK, unlike Thailand, has no room for more immigrants.

I think my views on the elite visa, and the hoops the under fifties have to jump through have been well documented.

We are only tolerated in Thailand for obvious reasons.

There's no hoops to the Elite visa, either you have the money or you don't, either you are prepared to pay for it or not, nothing unfair about any of that.

Discrimination purely by age is in itself unfair.

There's no age restriction with the Thailand Elite Card, not unless you call being over 20 years old a restriction!

I was referring to the retirement visa with the arbitrary age of 50. If you have 800k, should suffice.

I suppose it was only a matter of time before someone tried to play the 'discrimination' card...

I had guessed you were referring to the retirement visa being available at age 50, although it appeared you were referencing the Elite visa.

So is it discrimination that in some countries women have a lower retirement age than men? Is it discrimination that a retirement age is even set at all?

In fact the official retirement age in Thailand is 60 - for both men and women. So really by your reasoning, to be fair instead of setting an 'arbitrary' age of 50 the retirement visa should only be available to over 60's....

Rather nice of Thailand then to make it available to the over 50's don't you think?

[huawei]

^^^ just questioning the logic. They have reduced the age limit already and i think it's quite generous, so no argument there.

There are logical reasons why the retirement age was set ( in the west ) as it was and why it is changing. So in one sense you are right if you have to a visa that target a certain group use that definition of " retirement". No problem with that. Otherwise remove it altogether.

[Shadychris]

Nestling in amongst your post, is one very very good piece of advice that for reasons that escape me you chose to put 'lol' after.

Leaving Western preconceptions, perspectives and expectations at the gate is not just something that applies to Thailand, but is essential to do when re-locating anywhere - especially to any country with a significantly different culture than one is accustomed to. The inability of so many to do this is why they end up in, as you put it 'a pit of despair and confusion'.

If one is constantly comparing their new 'adopted' home with their previous existence, and especially if in a negative way, then they are going to make themselves miserable. They also won't gain much acceptance or respect from the locals who really aren't that interested to hear about how good everything was, or how things are done differently in your home country. That in turn will just lead to an increasing sense of isolation and loneliness and so the circle continues.

Start with a clean sheet and there's every chance of finding happiness. If that cant be done or achieved then remember, the problem is not Thailand, the problem is one of an individuals inability\unwillingness to adapt.

Yo Shadychris . The 'lol' was actually a bit of a chuckle at my own foolishness I 'spose in relation to this and agree with you muchly...having my Thai GF stay with me in OZ has been great as it has allowed a degree of more open discussion about some of the more puzzling aspects of things-Thai...the big one I still have "trouble" with is the Thai inclination to tell a lie to save face/protect another's feelings and if/when exposed, tell a lie to cover the first lie (and so on....) ad infinitum. I see it as bordering (!) on shameless behavior, but.....well...now, I just see my dearest's WHOLE story as a tissue of untruths and I feel much more secure strangely enough lol. cheers, MP

@Tassleman

The white lie.... Hmmmmm

Same for me at first but it's been overcome.

We had a sit down talk and I explained that unless I knew what was troubling her I could not help and I would probably, eventually get angry - not good for either of us.

She lied or more likely, didn't tell me the whole truth/story.

She is the eldest of 5, her Dad remarried several times, producing many children.

Thus she has a large family and their problems are her problems, if you know what I mean.

She was scared that I would be put off by all her problems and eventually leave.

I said, if you hide the full story or tell lies, I will leave for sure.

It still needed me to give her reassurances that all was good even with her family problems.

Then her Mum died 3 years ago and last year her 19 yr old son was murdered in one of those polytechnic gang fights.

I was kept informed all the way and even the small stuff so I could cope with it all.

We also constantly remind each other how lucky we are to have found each other.

I am totally taken care of when we spend our half year in Thailand - she is the boss!

She is totally taken care of when we are in Spain for half a year - She is the boss!

I provide ample funds and so my wife knows what we have and can judge how much to help family and friends.

Funnily enough, in the beginning, it was "My money" and my wife gave generously.

After it became "Her money" she is much more sparing about how much she gives away or Tamboon (for lucky LOL).

It also took a while for her to "be the Boss", to trust me not to be checking up on her behind her back.

Trust is a two way street.

Our relationship is based on trust and it's great and even gets better....

That's my story, just sayin how I got round the problem.

You do what you have to - everyone is different, be lucky!

Good luck

You post really struck a chord with me - I could actually have been reading my own life story ;-)

I think there are a few things very important to remember when in a relationship with with a Thai - or indeed maybe even with anyone from such a vastly different cultural background to oneself.

In particular regarding Thai people they have a very much 'day by day' ethos - lets not forget it is still a developing country, and the history and background of grinding poverty and 'life is cheap' ethos is still pervasive enough to preclude our Western sensibilities and abilities to think and provide for the future.

It is also very much the case that in spite of what some on here would have you believe the majority of Thai people are not stupid. They are well aware that some of their own do rip off 'Johnny foreigner' for everything he has, and they are equally aware that Westerners know this and are therefore very likely to be suspicious of them.

Also up until recently the woman was very much the 'second class citizen" in a Thai marriage, and to ask her husband for something would be unthinkable and likely result in a beating. They are therefore quite likely to hide money problems in the hope that they can solve them themselves.

Of course that is seldom possible and 'solving it' often involves simply borrowing from a loan shark to make the problem go away for today, but of course ultimately just making the problem bigger.

I encountered this problem at the start of my relationship a few times and on asking "why didn't you tell me sooner" the response was "I not want disturb you with my problem" or "I not want you think I'm only wanting money from you"

So not only do we have to try and adapt to the Thai way and culture which can sometimes be difficult to do, we must also remember in the case of a relationship that it might not be so easy for the Thai person to also adapt to our Western ways and values. It took many long heart to heart conversations, but my partner came to accept that her problems are 'our' problems, and that it's not only OK to, but actually much better to be open about them from the start.

Of course a leopard will never change it's spots completely and I still find sometimes that maybe I haven't quite been told everything..... ;-) but thankfully it seems now to be just really trivial stuff that she thought 'might make me angry' Also I'm getting better at spotting this and when I ask outright "what are you not telling me?" with a big smile on my face, it all comes out very quickly..

Relationships eh.... 2 way streets so they say - but when you're in one with somebody from another culture it's more like a 2 way street with no traffic signs and nobody quite knows which is the correct side of the road to drive on - so be careful the relationship doesn't turn into a car crash ;-)

None of which ofc has anything to do with the OP - unless he gets seriously involved with a Thai girl, but given the frequent air of bitterness, gloom, and anti-Thainess that seems to pervade on this forum, I don't think you can have too many posts giving a more positive slant on things!.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Shadychris

[laislica]

^^^:@ShadyChris

Nice to hear our stories are complimentary and nice.

In my first post on this topic I stressed the need for the OP to read a couple of books to learn about the differences between our cultures.

The little stories here only add grist to the mill.

Still kinda on topic but can stop now.

[salavan]

as from 2015 all non residents will be liable for capital gains tax

[Shadychris]

Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

And just what - EXACTLY - do you think retirees on goat cheese pensions are if not economic migrants?

Things are rarely that black or white. A retired person with nothing more than their state pension - ie no savings would not qualify for a retirement visa anyway. They would likely need around 500K Bht in the bank as well to meet the combination 12 x monthly pension + bank balance = 800,000 Bht

However if they had that and were living with and supporting a Thai family then I would not call them 'economic migrants' anyway - they are living with and supporting the one they love

On the other hand maybe a single retired guy living alone on that basis could quite reasonably be described as an economic migrant, but equally there could be other issues to factor in, a lot of people find the warm Thai climate to be much kinder to their health problems than that of their home country.

However my post was not specifically referencing retired people as the OP is in his 40's, I was referring more to those on limited means who stay in the country on back to back tourist visas year after year. How many other Western countries allows continual renewals of tourist visas without at least a 6 month absence from the country?

I say again Thailand has no obligation to make it easy for any non working foreigner to stay long term - economic migrants or otherwise. It already has in place reasonable systems for those over 50 years old, with option of Elite visa for those younger ones. Otherwise if younger than 50, cannot afford the Elite visa and do not wish to work, then be prepared to put up with the inconvenience of visa runs etc - at least there is still the opportunity to do that.

[NeverSure]

-snip- Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

Hi, I don't consider those people economic migrants. The difference is that they don't move to Thailand expecting to receive monetary benefits. Those moving into the UK do expect that and that may be the primary reason they are moving.

Western Expats know they have to support themselves in Thailand or they will fail and perhaps have to go back home, if they are lucky. If an expat can meet the requirements to stay in Thailand he may well have more money than many Thais even if he's poor by our standards.

I would agree that at least part of the reason many expats are in Thailand is because they perceive it as cheaper, but they still have to pay their own way.

Cheers.

[Shadychris]

-snip- Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

Hi, I don't consider those people economic migrants. The difference is that they don't move to Thailand expecting to receive monetary benefits. Those moving into the UK do expect that and that may be the primary reason they are moving.

Western Expats know they have to support themselves in Thailand or they will fail and perhaps have to go back home, if they are lucky. If an expat can meet the requirements to stay in Thailand he may well have more money than many Thais even if he's poor by our standards.

I would agree that at least part of the reason many expats are in Thailand is because they perceive it as cheaper, but they still have to pay their own way.

Cheers.

Yup for sure there are a huge percentage of people moving to the UK because they will be better off financially, whether simply by means of claiming benefit, or by higher salary, or it seems even a combination of both. I hear that Child Benefit or whatever it is called these days, can be claimed for their kids living in other countries.. how insane is that? But the root reason they emmigrate to the UK is for a better financial situation - meaning they are economic migrants.

economic migrant

noun 1. a person who moves from one region, place, or country to another in order to improve his or her standard of living

Whilst of course Thailand is not so stupid as dish out any of their few meagre State benefits to immigrants, there are plenty for whom the whole reason, not just part of the reason to be in Thailand is that it is considerably cheaper than living in the West. Nothing to do with 'perceiving' it as cheaper, which gives the impression of an illusion - it is a LOT cheaper. Fact. Especially so in the case of those 'expats' I am really referring to, whose biggest essential expense every week is beer, cigarettes and pootana.

So as such those people, even though they still have to pay their own way, are also enjoying a better financial situation and standard of living than they could afford in their home country, thus making them economic migrants.

economic migrant

noun

1. a person who moves from one region, place, or country to another in order to improve his or her standard of living

Edited December 12, 2015 by Shadychris

[laislica]

^^^ The mention of the weather is I believe a great factor.

I know an old Thai woman living in the south of Spain where it's nothing as cold as the UK's winter.

She pays €100 / month for rent, less than 400b!

True I would not want to live in such a cramped place but hey, some of the single expats in Thailand do!

€1.50 buys a fresh salmon head from the fish market a few mins walk from home, somtan for two days....

The costs in Thailand, if you want western standards have been rising sharply.

I pay about €400 (less than 16,000b) / month rent plus electricity, water and rubbish removal.

We have a nice fully furnished flat with aircon in all rooms.

It has two bedrooms, whereas most in the building hare three.

In ours the biggest and smallest were merged so our bedroom is quite spacious.

Now lets talk about the cost of good wine,

For €10 (400b) I can buy 4 bottles of Pata Negra, 2007 Gran Reserve in a box at the supermarket.

I also like sweet white which is a little more expensive arounf €4 (160b) / bottle.

pop into one of the many bars and drink 33cl beer or a glass of red wine with tapas for less than €3 (120b).

A bottle of cheap vodka €4 (160b) etc etc

Good local transport and cheap but taxis are much more expensive than Thailand.

No tuk tuks or m/c taxis.

Safer roads

full NHS cover.....

Perhaps it's a while since you samples the delights of Southern Spain he he

But we have strayed a tad off topic ?

[Cypress Hill]

Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

And just what - EXACTLY - do you think retirees on goat cheese pensions are if not economic migrants?

Things are rarely that black or white. A retired person with nothing more than their state pension - ie no savings would not qualify for a retirement visa anyway. They would likely need around 500K Bht in the bank as well to meet the combination 12 x monthly pension + bank balance = 800,000 Bht

However if they had that and were living with and supporting a Thai family then I would not call them 'economic migrants' anyway - they are living with and supporting the one they love

On the other hand maybe a single retired guy living alone on that basis could quite reasonably be described as an economic migrant, but equally there could be other issues to factor in, a lot of people find the warm Thai climate to be much kinder to their health problems than that of their home country.

However my post was not specifically referencing retired people as the OP is in his 40's, I was referring more to those on limited means who stay in the country on back to back tourist visas year after year. How many other Western countries allows continual renewals of tourist visas without at least a 6 month absence from the country?

I say again Thailand has no obligation to make it easy for any non working foreigner to stay long term - economic migrants or otherwise. It already has in place reasonable systems for those over 50 years old, with option of Elite visa for those younger ones. Otherwise if younger than 50, cannot afford the Elite visa and do not wish to work, then be prepared to put up with the inconvenience of visa runs etc - at least there is still the opportunity to do that.

Bull5hit . . . and copious quantities of it at that

The criteria one has to satisfy to BE an economic migrant is irrelevant.

Whether he comes here on back-to-back tourist visas or a retirement visa, he still stands to benefit financially from the lower cost of living.

My point is that you're being disingenuous by suggesting the Thai government shouldn't make it "easy" for economic migrants when it ALREADY makes it easy for those who've attained the age of 50.

[fang37]

SUGGESTION!

Relist those questions still unresolved.

[fey]

I don't care how well off you are, dont fork up 9k usd for an elite visa if you have never been here.
Dumbest suggestion ever.

[mizztraveller]

-snip- Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

Hi, I don't consider those people economic migrants. The difference is that they don't move to Thailand expecting to receive monetary benefits. Those moving into the UK do expect that and that may be the primary reason they are moving.

Western Expats know they have to support themselves in Thailand or they will fail and perhaps have to go back home, if they are lucky. If an expat can meet the requirements to stay in Thailand he may well have more money than many Thais even if he's poor by our standards.

I would agree that at least part of the reason many expats are in Thailand is because they perceive it as cheaper, but they still have to pay their own way.

Cheers.

Yup for sure there are a huge percentage of people moving to the UK because they will be better off financially, whether simply by means of claiming benefit, or by higher salary, or it seems even a combination of both. I hear that Child Benefit or whatever it is called these days, can be claimed for their kids living in other countries.. how insane is that? But the root reason they emmigrate to the UK is for a better financial situation - meaning they are economic migrants.

economic migrant

noun 1. a person who moves from one region, place, or country to another in order to improve his or her standard of living

Whilst of course Thailand is not so stupid as dish out any of their few meagre State benefits to immigrants, there are plenty for whom the whole reason, not just part of the reason to be in Thailand is that it is considerably cheaper than living in the West. Nothing to do with 'perceiving' it as cheaper, which gives the impression of an illusion - it is a LOT cheaper. Fact. Especially so in the case of those 'expats' I am really referring to, whose biggest essential expense every week is beer, cigarettes and pootana.

So as such those people, even though they still have to pay their own way, are also enjoying a better financial situation and standard of living than they could afford in their home country, thus making them economic migrants.

economic migrant

noun

1. a person who moves from one region, place, or country to another in order to improve his or her standard of living

This applies to practically everyone in North America and with the exception of the descendants of British prisoners, almost all those in Australia.

[Shadychris]

-snip- Why should Thailand make it easy for those economic migrants who are just looking to stay long term somewhere cheaper than their home country?

Hi, I don't consider those people economic migrants. The difference is that they don't move to Thailand expecting to receive monetary benefits. Those moving into the UK do expect that and that may be the primary reason they are moving.

Western Expats know they have to support themselves in Thailand or they will fail and perhaps have to go back home, if they are lucky. If an expat can meet the requirements to stay in Thailand he may well have more money than many Thais even if he's poor by our standards.

I would agree that at least part of the reason many expats are in Thailand is because they perceive it as cheaper, but they still have to pay their own way.

Cheers.

Yup for sure there are a huge percentage of people moving to the UK because they will be better off financially, whether simply by means of claiming benefit, or by higher salary, or it seems even a combination of both. I hear that Child Benefit or whatever it is called these days, can be claimed for their kids living in other countries.. how insane is that? But the root reason they emmigrate to the UK is for a better financial situation - meaning they are economic migrants.

economic migrant

noun 1. a person who moves from one region, place, or country to another in order to improve his or her standard of living

Whilst of course Thailand is not so stupid as dish out any of their few meagre State benefits to immigrants, there are plenty for whom the whole reason, not just part of the reason to be in Thailand is that it is considerably cheaper than living in the West. Nothing to do with 'perceiving' it as cheaper, which gives the impression of an illusion - it is a LOT cheaper. Fact. Especially so in the case of those 'expats' I am really referring to, whose biggest essential expense every week is beer, cigarettes and pootana.

So as such those people, even though they still have to pay their own way, are also enjoying a better financial situation and standard of living than they could afford in their home country, thus making them economic migrants.

economic migrant

noun

1. a person who moves from one region, place, or country to another in order to improve his or her standard of living

This applies to practically everyone in North America and with the exception of the descendants of British prisoners, almost all those in Australia.

Although I cant speak for North America - I agree about Australia. I have Uncles who moved there years ago for economic reasons - although form what I hear from them nowadays, there is not quite as much financial advantage between Oz and the UK as there used to be, and certainly nowhere near as much financial advantage as Thailand.

However it's also the case that it's not possible to bum around Australia on back to back tourist visas forever. There are very tough and strict criteria regarding financial status, job skills in demand, sponsorship etc to meet before there's any chance of being allowed permanent status. Those people who have emigrated to Oz did not do so just to solely sit on a beach or bar stool all day - they would have had jobs to go to. Which comes back to my point that Thailand has no obligation to make it easy for these tourist visa itinerants to stay long term in the country.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Shadychris

[Mover1]

SUGGESTION!

Relist those questions still unresolved.

Hi fang37, here you go mate:

1 - Yes there's still uk CGT to pay, but it will be lower than if sold while still resident in uk.

2 - I'll have uk, offshore and thai accounts, all for various reasons.

3 - Going for the METV. Just not sure about the return flight proof yet.

4 - Hopefully will be resolved when over there. At the moment i rely on Booking.com and others to find places, but word of mouth always seems to get better deals - is this what people find? Is anyone successfully using airbnb? I've seen some crappy reviews with places on there, not sure how trustworthy it is.

5 - I'm really not going to know until i've found out for myself as everyones expectations are different, haha.

6 - Not sure about this as i won't be working or earning. Waiting for pro's (paid for) advice.

7 - Have to stay out for 5 yrs, only allowed back into uk for 16 days a year. I'm wondering if i can get back to back METV's every 6 months, would that work?

Good to read all the stuff on here, cheers for the advice all

[JB300]

Hello everyone,

I'm about to move to Thailand early next year for 5 years and have a lot of questions, hopefully it's ok to post them here and get some answers from you experienced expats. If I'm posting in the wrong place then please tell me where to go :

• I'm selling a business and have some rental properties in the uk. The properties are all being sold after April 2016 so i'm not liable for Capital Gains Tax, as long as i'm out the UK for 5 years, is this correct? I'm paying for professional tax advice at the moment but i'm interested if anyone here has some similar recent experience.
• How is it best to handle bank accounts when moving to another country? At the moment i've got a few uk accounts, is it best to keep these open and open another account in a Thai bank? Or use an offshore bank? If offshore, which currency is best to use?
• I'm about to apply for a Thai visa. I'm a bit confused as to which visa i should be applying for, is it a Tourist Visa valid for 60 days, then keep renewing it every 90 days? I'm 43 yrs old if it makes a difference.
• I've been to Thailand 6 times for short (2-3 week) holidays, but i've never rented an apartment on a long term basis. Is there things i should be watching out for? And how do i know it's a reasonable price? Where do i find places for long term rental?
• How does living in an apartment in Thailand compare the uk? I mean whats the differences i should be aware of, like kitchen appliances (oven, washing machine, etc), how to get uk tv channels, washing clothes and laundry, cooking, etc? Do i need any essentials to bring with me?
• I plan on moving around the country, and visiting other countries, maybe even going around the world at some point. In order to maintain my tax status as a Thai resident, how many days must i be resident in the country so the uk gov is satisfied concerning Capital Gains Tax (It could be a fxxxing big mistake if i get this wrong).
• How many days are you allowed back to visit friends and family in the UK for each year?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm excited about the move and also a bit nervous about how unprepared i feel! Any pointers regarding anything i've mentioned above would be really helpful!

Cheers

If you're non-UK resident for Tax, since April 2015, you're liable for CGT on your primary property so I can't see you not being liable for rental/secondary properties.

Good news is it's only gains made since April 2015 on your primary property (suspect it's usual CGT rules on the others) so might also be worth getting a valuation from an estate agent asap so you know how much gains you've made when it comes to selling.

Much more to CGT than can be covered here so best to get advice from a UK Tax advisor, but do note that it's complete Tax years so assuming you move before April 6th 2016, it will be April 6th 2021 before your 5 complete years is up, move on or after April 6th & it will be April 6th 2022.

Don't worry about the length of time spent in Thailand, It's the Length of time you've spent outside the UK that is relevant for Tax purposes, Google UK Residency Test to determine the exact rules that apply to you (e.g. In my case I've been non-tax resident for more than 3 years so would need to spend at least 46 days in the uk to be tax resident again), I believe that technically you can live outside of the UK for 349 days of the year & still be considered Tax resident.

Edit: Re bank accounts, I had no problem with Barclays & even changed my address with them to my address in Singapore, but best to try to keep at least 1 credit card with a UK address for use with Amazon/Apple store etc...

Also worth opening Forex transfer accounts in UK before you move if you're going to be sending money over on a regular basis (I would suggest opening a Bangkok Bank account in London & one in Thailand to make it even easier but I think somebody mentioned that BB in London is commercial banking only, am sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong).

Edited December 16, 2015 by JB300

[JB300]

SUGGESTION!

Relist those questions still unresolved.

Hi fang37, here you go mate:

1 - Yes there's still uk CGT to pay, but it will be lower than if sold while still resident in uk.

2 - I'll have uk, offshore and thai accounts, all for various reasons.

3 - Going for the METV. Just not sure about the return flight proof yet.

4 - Hopefully will be resolved when over there. At the moment i rely on Booking.com and others to find places, but word of mouth always seems to get better deals - is this what people find? Is anyone successfully using airbnb? I've seen some crappy reviews with places on there, not sure how trustworthy it is.

5 - I'm really not going to know until i've found out for myself as everyones expectations are different, haha.

6 - Not sure about this as i won't be working or earning. Waiting for pro's (paid for) advice.

7 - Have to stay out for 5 yrs, only allowed back into uk for 16 days a year. I'm wondering if i can get back to back METV's every 6 months, would that work?

Good to read all the stuff on here, cheers for the advice all

7) Should be able to get (almost) 9 months out of your METV by exiting/re-entering Thailand just before the "Enter Before" date on the visa then extending this last (60 day) stamp by 30 days at immigration in-country, couple this with an SETV from a neighboring country & you're covered for a year.

Keep in mind that once you're no longer employed/ have sold your business, you'll no longer be able to meet the proof of employment requirement for an METV so (as things stand) would be limited to SETVs.

Edited December 16, 2015 by JB300

[fey]

SUGGESTION!

Relist those questions still unresolved.

Hi fang37, here you go mate:

1 - Yes there's still uk CGT to pay, but it will be lower than if sold while still resident in uk.

2 - I'll have uk, offshore and thai accounts, all for various reasons.

3 - Going for the METV. Just not sure about the return flight proof yet.

4 - Hopefully will be resolved when over there. At the moment i rely on Booking.com and others to find places, but word of mouth always seems to get better deals - is this what people find? Is anyone successfully using airbnb? I've seen some crappy reviews with places on there, not sure how trustworthy it is.

5 - I'm really not going to know until i've found out for myself as everyones expectations are different, haha.

6 - Not sure about this as i won't be working or earning. Waiting for pro's (paid for) advice.

7 - Have to stay out for 5 yrs, only allowed back into uk for 16 days a year. I'm wondering if i can get back to back METV's every 6 months, would that work?

Good to read all the stuff on here, cheers for the advice all

7) Should be able to get (almost) 9 months out of your METV by exiting/re-entering Thailand just before the "Enter Before" date on the visa then extending this last (60 day) stamp by 30 days at immigration in-country, couple this with an SETV from a neighboring country & you're covered for a year.

Keep in mind that once you're no longer employed/ have sold your business, you'll no longer be able to meet the proof of employment requirement for an METV so (as things stand) would be limited to SETVs.

never really understood the need to have to stay in thailand that long without any sort of break.

i think it must be folks who have family here, long term leases or cant do without a "guide" for a couple weeks.

thats not the case here for a newbie. as a single fellow dropping in a short stint to a neighboring country at least once a year is almost a given, especially if he dont need to work. simply get a new visa, even a single entry is going to get three months more time possible.

re air b n b dont do it esp long term. they weed out negative reviews and you can really get trapped if you start booking long term monthly places to save money. search several listings and no negative reviews anywhere. people getting friends or hiring to let a day or two then leave a bunch of positive teviews. its personal not like a hotel.

Edited December 16, 2015 by fey

[JB300]

... Snip...

never really understood the need to have to stay in thailand that long without any sort of break.

i think it must be folks who have family here, long term leases or cant do without a "guide" for a couple weeks.

thats not the case here for a newbie. as a single fellow dropping in a short stint to a neighboring country at least once a year is almost a given, especially if he dont need to work. simply get a new visa, even a single entry is going to get three months more time possible.

Agree, especially when you 1st "Retire", I left my job in Singapore end of Jan/Singapore itself end of Feb & since then haven't spent more than 4-6 weeks in any one country before moving on to the next.

You do need a "Base" to operate from though, I'm lucky in that I have good mates in KL & Singapore that have spare bedrooms so use these (mainly KL) as my base, but if I didn't then I'd either look at some form of easy access/long term storage or rent somewhere in Thailand & take the hit that it would be empty some of the time (in my case it would have only been used 2 months out of the 9 1/2 so quite a hit to take).

[before anybody calls me a sponger, these are mates that I put up in my Condo for 3 & 6 months when they 1st moved to Asia so insist on returning the favour until I pick a base of my own].

re air b n b dont do it esp long term. they weed out negative reviews and you can really get trapped if you start booking long term monthly places to save money. search several listings and no negative reviews anywhere. people getting friends or hiring to let a day or two then leave a bunch of positive teviews. its personal not like a hotel.

I've had 3 experiences of AirBnB, 2 very positive ones in Philippines (1 in Manilla & 1 in Cebu) & 1 negative one (funny enough) in Bangkok where the Condo (Trendy on Soi13) was to noisy and unlike a hotel it's difficult to complain/get moved to another room.

On balance I would (& did) use AirBnB again but only for a few week stay, if I wanted to stay longer than this then I'd either do a deal with the owner or use the time to find another unit there, IMHO AirBnB is a good way to scope out places/condos that you might want to stay in longer term, but not for booking somewhere for long term (you can only book a maximum of 30 nights online).

Edited December 16, 2015 by JB300

[fey]

... Snip...

never really understood the need to have to stay in thailand that long without any sort of break.

i think it must be folks who have family here, long term leases or cant do without a "guide" for a couple weeks.

thats not the case here for a newbie. as a single fellow dropping in a short stint to a neighboring country at least once a year is almost a given, especially if he dont need to work. simply get a new visa, even a single entry is going to get three months more time possible.

Agree, especially when you 1st "Retire", I left my job in Singapore end of Jan/Singapore itself end of Feb & since then haven't spent more than 4-6 weeks in any one country before moving on to the next.

You do need a "Base" to operate from though, I'm lucky in that I have good mates in KL & Singapore that have spare bedrooms so use these (mainly KL) as my base, but if I didn't then I'd either look at some form of easy access/long term storage or rent somewhere in Thailand & take the hit that it would be empty some of the time (in my case it would have only been used 2 months out of the 9 1/2 so quite a hit to take).

[before anybody calls me a sponger, these are mates that I put up in my Condo for 3 & 6 months when they 1st moved to Asia so insist on returning the favour until I pick a base of my own].

why would you need a "base" if your living somewhere else?

your just pissing money effectively renting two places at once.

[JB300]

... Snip...

never really understood the need to have to stay in thailand that long without any sort of break.

i think it must be folks who have family here, long term leases or cant do without a "guide" for a couple weeks.

thats not the case here for a newbie. as a single fellow dropping in a short stint to a neighboring country at least once a year is almost a given, especially if he dont need to work. simply get a new visa, even a single entry is going to get three months more time possible.

Agree, especially when you 1st "Retire", I left my job in Singapore end of Jan/Singapore itself end of Feb & since then haven't spent more than 4-6 weeks in any one country before moving on to the next.

You do need a "Base" to operate from though, I'm lucky in that I have good mates in KL & Singapore that have spare bedrooms so use these (mainly KL) as my base, but if I didn't then I'd either look at some form of easy access/long term storage or rent somewhere in Thailand & take the hit that it would be empty some of the time (in my case it would have only been used 2 months out of the 9 1/2 so quite a hit to take).

[before anybody calls me a sponger, these are mates that I put up in my Condo for 3 & 6 months when they 1st moved to Asia so insist on returning the favour until I pick a base of my own].

why would you need a "base" if your living somewhere else?

your just pissing money effectively renting two places at once.

Despite giving away my Tv, microwave, DVD player, monitors, Xbox, books, DVDs, crockery, cutlery etc... I still manage to accumulate a lot of stuff during 7 years living in Singapore so either needed a base to keep it or put it in long term storage.

So I have clothes in Singapore, more clothes & my personal stuff in KL & return to one of these for 1-2 weeks in between trips, but I don't pay rent in either of these places so it's easy for me to do.

However, when I'm traveling I will book somewhere for 3-4 weeks & take a mini-holiday during this, e.g. Recently back from Cebu where I rented a condo on AirBnB & took a side trip to Bohol for 5 days in the middle where I had to pay for a hotel as well, but that's how I like to travel (have always done this, even on a 2 week holiday to Florida, I would take a mini-break to Miami/Keys etc) & as long as I stick within budget I'm not too worried about it.

Point to the OP is during the 1st year of living in Asia he may find himself wanting to explore the region rather than settle in one place so long term visas might not be a problem (Except for the 10mins it took to get an E-Visa for Australia, I've not had to get a visa in advance or needed to extend a VOA/Exempt), but if he's moving over here to live he will need to manage his possessions, can't take them all with you from place to place.

Edited December 17, 2015 by JB300

[fey]

... Snip...

never really understood the need to have to stay in thailand that long without any sort of break.

i think it must be folks who have family here, long term leases or cant do without a "guide" for a couple weeks.

thats not the case here for a newbie. as a single fellow dropping in a short stint to a neighboring country at least once a year is almost a given, especially if he dont need to work. simply get a new visa, even a single entry is going to get three months more time possible.

Agree, especially when you 1st "Retire", I left my job in Singapore end of Jan/Singapore itself end of Feb & since then haven't spent more than 4-6 weeks in any one country before moving on to the next.

You do need a "Base" to operate from though, I'm lucky in that I have good mates in KL & Singapore that have spare bedrooms so use these (mainly KL) as my base, but if I didn't then I'd either look at some form of easy access/long term storage or rent somewhere in Thailand & take the hit that it would be empty some of the time (in my case it would have only been used 2 months out of the 9 1/2 so quite a hit to take).

[before anybody calls me a sponger, these are mates that I put up in my Condo for 3 & 6 months when they 1st moved to Asia so insist on returning the favour until I pick a base of my own].

why would you need a "base" if your living somewhere else?

your just pissing money effectively renting two places at once.

Despite giving away my Tv, microwave, DVD player, monitors, Xbox, books, DVDs, crockery, cutlery etc... I still manage to accumulate a lot of stuff during 7 years living in Singapore so either needed a base to keep it or put it in long term storage.

Point to the OP is during the 1st year of living in Asia he may find himself wanting to explore the region rather than settle in one place so long term visas might not be a problem (Except for the 10mins it took to get an E-Visa for Australia, I've not had to get a visa in advance or needed to extend a VOA/Exempt), but if he's moving over here to live he will need to manage his possessions, can't take them all with you from place to place.

Glad i solved that problem by selling almost everything. What little remained i shuffed off to a relatives dusty garage. I now live with 25 kg of stuff just under the flight luggage limit and buy the rest as i go.

i dont miss the stuff at all, although i do enjoy rummaging through it whenever i visit the states just for the memories.