The Koh Tao verdict and Myanmar migrant worker misery

[tuanku]

"The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand."

Which would have to be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Myanmar workers who've faced poor treatment in their own country. I've been to Myanmar 4 times and seen it.

Thailand, for all its faults, isn't nearly as backwards as some of its neighbors. Everything is relative.

Very true, but Myanmar, for all its many faults, is going forwards while poor old Thailand is heading in the opposite direction. Before long they will pass each other.

[Linky]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

Oh dear.

The dna was the reason they were found guilty, according to the judge.

There is no evidence they had the victims phone.

Left their belongings quite a few metres from the scene.

Cigarrete butts where not at the scene.

Hide who's phone? There is no evidence they hid any phone anyway.

Their belongings were not and never have been at the scene.

You say the dna was nothing but thats not what the judge said.

So you are wrong on all your points. That is no surprise though.

[bannork]

"The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand."

Which would have to be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Myanmar workers who've faced poor treatment in their own country. I've been to Myanmar 4 times and seen it.

Thailand, for all its faults, isn't nearly as backwards as some of its neighbors. Everything is relative.

Very true, but Myanmar, for all its many faults, is going forwards while poor old Thailand is heading in the opposite direction. Before long they will pass each other.

Myanmar is 30 years behind Thailand regarding their infrastructure.

[tuanku]

"The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand."

Which would have to be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Myanmar workers who've faced poor treatment in their own country. I've been to Myanmar 4 times and seen it.

Thailand, for all its faults, isn't nearly as backwards as some of its neighbors. Everything is relative.

Very true, but Myanmar, for all its many faults, is going forwards while poor old Thailand is heading in the opposite direction. Before long they will pass each other.

Myanmar is 30 years behind Thailand regarding their infrastructure.

And approximately level on human rights and fractionally ahead on democracy.......and Thailand is regressing on both those indicators

Economics is not the only basis for comparison

[greenchair]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

Oh dear.

The dna was the reason they were found guilty, according to the judge.

There is no evidence they had the victims phone.

Left their belongings quite a few metres from the scene.

Cigarrete butts where not at the scene.

Hide who's phone? There is no evidence they hid any phone anyway.

Their belongings were not and never have been at the scene.

You say the dna was nothing but thats not what the judge said.

So you are wrong on all your points. That is no surprise though.

I beg to differ on all points mate. They were convicted on the dna and the overwhelming other evidence that was presented. The dna ties them directly to rape,even without it , all the other evidence shows they were there. The phone is the same make as Davids, picked on the beach meters from the crime (according to Wei Phyo ) at 5am when he went back to retrieve his belongings. Pigs might fly if that phones not David's. Just the fact that they left their belongings on the beach at all, near a murder lights up red to me. It is something people do when leaving in a hurry. Asking other readers for confirmation, as far as I know the cigarette buts were found next to the body. The hiding of the phone is by Wei Phyo own testimony. He gave the phone to his friend, because he was afraid he might be accused of the murder that he had just heard about that morning. the friend smashed it with a hammer and hid it in bushes behind the bungalow. The friend came forward and that's why the case turned from mon to the b2. The judge considered all of the evidences together as a unit with the dna being the highlight of the day. He did not make his decision selectively on 1 piece, as some people on here try to steer us to believe.

They were there, now fess up boys.

[KunMatt]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

Oh, it's you

Yes, it's this username to be used to disrupt this particular Koh Tao thread apparently.

[greenchair]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

OK...so what you are ultimately implying is the police and the courts are absolutely correct in their verdicts so, in effect, that means if a loved one of yours, lets say, your dearly beloved sister or brother, was brutally murdered in Thailand then you would simply accept what the Thai police tell you happened and fully agree with the courts decision and fully accept the verdict and never ever question the verdict...and just move on as if noting at all is wrong....nothing at all.

I hope you never get called to sit on a jury for a murder trial.

Cheers

As people on here will confirm, I questioned the police throughout this past year. I never believed a word the police and defended the b2 all the way. I agree with you, i failed to look at both sides and never questioned how or why the b2 came to be accused of this. I was of the opinion that they were just two people randomly picked from a crowd because they went for a swim near the crime. I am man enough to admit I was wrong. After reading all of the happenings of the night as told by Wei pho and opening my mind, I see that yes the police must be queried and yes the b2 must be queried also, because both sides have not been completely truthful. So thanks for pointing out my inadequacy.

[sartoric]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

OK...so what you are ultimately implying is the police and the courts are absolutely correct in their verdicts so, in effect, that means if a loved one of yours, lets say, your dearly beloved sister or brother, was brutally murdered in Thailand then you would simply accept what the Thai police tell you happened and fully agree with the courts decision and fully accept the verdict and never ever question the verdict...and just move on as if noting at all is wrong....nothing at all.

I hope you never get called to sit on a jury for a murder trial.

Cheers

As people on here will confirm, I questioned the police throughout this past year. I never believed a word the police and defended the b2 all the way. I agree with you, i failed to look at both sides and never questioned how or why the b2 came to be accused of this. I was of the opinion that they were just two people randomly picked from a crowd because they went for a swim near the crime. I am man enough to admit I was wrong. After reading all of the happenings of the night as told by Wei pho and opening my mind, I see that yes the police must be queried and yes the b2 must be queried also, because both sides have not been completely truthful. So thanks for pointing out my inadequacy.

"I am man enough to admit I was wrong".

Aren't you a woman ?

[greenchair]

Blesses Kun matt and Mr rizzla,

Didn't know I was so popular lol.

???

[happy Joe]

The Burmese protesters know nothing about the facts. They act like bleating sheep primarily motivated by their herd instinct.

Do as the others follow suit, that is their motto. Bah !

Note it's a bit like here, huh ...

Also as stated above Myanmar is poorly placed to give lessons of equity to its neighbors. This country unable to feed its people discharges on Thailande its economic, political and ethnic refugees.

So IMHO if their din forces us to hear it may not be necessary to listen.

[hughben]

Those who champion the Thai police - try a little experiment. Get some white washing powder and put some in a small 5x3cm bag. Then take a stroll around Sukumvit 20-23 until you are stopped on the street by a couple of Thai police on motorbikes. When they find the bag on you, explain it is washing powder.

Report back with your findings.

[gemguy]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

OK...so what you are ultimately implying is the police and the courts are absolutely correct in their verdicts so, in effect, that means if a loved one of yours, lets say, your dearly beloved sister or brother, was brutally murdered in Thailand then you would simply accept what the Thai police tell you happened and fully agree with the courts decision and fully accept the verdict and never ever question the verdict...and just move on as if noting at all is wrong....nothing at all.

I hope you never get called to sit on a jury for a murder trial.

Cheers

As people on here will confirm, I questioned the police throughout this past year. I never believed a word the police and defended the b2 all the way. I agree with you, i failed to look at both sides and never questioned how or why the b2 came to be accused of this. I was of the opinion that they were just two people randomly picked from a crowd because they went for a swim near the crime. I am man enough to admit I was wrong. After reading all of the happenings of the night as told by Wei pho and opening my mind, I see that yes the police must be queried and yes the b2 must be queried also, because both sides have not been completely truthful. So thanks for pointing out my inadequacy.

Could the B2 have perpetrated the murders?...

Yes they could have ...but it just does not add up if you followed the story from beginning to end.

Meantime the Thai police are well known for using scapegoats as a means to resolve a variety of crimes.

It is not the first time someone has taken the rap for something they did not do.

As I said before...the really creepy thing is it could have been any of the other Burmese migrant workers that were rounded up and accused and set up to take the fall.

You would think, if they did murder the 2 foreigners they would not have stayed around to be arrested and sentenced.

You would think they would have left with other Burmese people and many others routinely leaving the island.

But maybe they thought they would not be arrested because they did not do anything wrong just the same way all the other hundreds of Burmese workers did not leave because they did not do anything wrong.

They could have done it ...but most people are very certain they did not...even the Thais know something is not right here.

Cheers

[DM07]

The Burmese protesters know nothing about the facts. They act like bleating sheep primarily motivated by their herd instinct.

Do as the others follow suit, that is their motto. Bah !

Note it's a bit like here, huh ...

Also as stated above Myanmar is poorly placed to give lessons of equity to its neighbors. This country unable to feed its people discharges on Thailande its economic, political and ethnic refugees.

So IMHO if their din forces us to hear it may not be necessary to listen.

You are such a hoot!

Without the "discharge" of "economic...refugees" from Myanmar, Thailand would come to a grinding halt!

Who do you think, works on all the construction sites around the country and in many of the low paying jobs?

Accusing other people of not knowing facts!

Rich!

Really rich!

[springheeled jack]

the kho tao farce goes on and the world is still watching did theRTP think that this would go away? .

[Linky]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

Oh dear.

The dna was the reason they were found guilty, according to the judge.

There is no evidence they had the victims phone.

Left their belongings quite a few metres from the scene.

Cigarrete butts where not at the scene.

Hide who's phone? There is no evidence they hid any phone anyway.

Their belongings were not and never have been at the scene.

You say the dna was nothing but thats not what the judge said.

So you are wrong on all your points. That is no surprise though.

I beg to differ on all points mate. They were convicted on the dna and the overwhelming other evidence that was presented. The dna ties them directly to rape,even without it , all the other evidence shows they were there. The phone is the same make as Davids, picked on the beach meters from the crime (according to Wei Phyo ) at 5am when he went back to retrieve his belongings. Pigs might fly if that phones not David's. Just the fact that they left their belongings on the beach at all, near a murder lights up red to me. It is something people do when leaving in a hurry. Asking other readers for confirmation, as far as I know the cigarette buts were found next to the body. The hiding of the phone is by Wei Phyo own testimony. He gave the phone to his friend, because he was afraid he might be accused of the murder that he had just heard about that morning. the friend smashed it with a hammer and hid it in bushes behind the bungalow. The friend came forward and that's why the case turned from mon to the b2. The judge considered all of the evidences together as a unit with the dna being the highlight of the day. He did not make his decision selectively on 1 piece, as some people on here try to steer us to believe.

They were there, now fess up boys.

You can differ all you like but the facts do not support what you said.

There is no evidence of dna presented. It was a piece of paper with notes hand written on it. That is not dna evidence by any stretch. The british report stated there was no evidence of rape.

There is NO evidence the phone is davids. Police simply saying it is is not evidence. You said they tried to hide the phone, they did not. Someone else did.

Again, what is the evidence, not hearsay, evidence. There is none. There is no evidence they were at the scene at all. They were near it, but no evidence showing they were at it. No evidence of them handling the murder weapon, but there is evidence of someone else handling it.

So nothing you say is backed by evidence. Which is no surprise.

[Linky]

The samui court has been shown previously to be corrupt. When this case is taken away from that corrupt court into the real higher courts then the decision will be reversed. Unfortunately the real murderers will not be arrested.

[somo]

What really amazes me is how any court judge can be so blatantly biased , stupidly ignoring proven facts and still keep his position in any society. I cannot understand how any person who obviously knows nothing whatsoever about DNA evidence can make his decision based on DNA evidence. This has got me stuffed !

Based on non existent DNA evidence - I think would have been more accurate

[somo]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

Oh dear.

The dna was the reason they were found guilty, according to the judge.

There is no evidence they had the victims phone.

Left their belongings quite a few metres from the scene.

Cigarrete butts where not at the scene.

Hide who's phone? There is no evidence they hid any phone anyway.

Their belongings were not and never have been at the scene.

You say the dna was nothing but thats not what the judge said.

So you are wrong on all your points. That is no surprise though.

I beg to differ on all points mate. They were convicted on the dna and the overwhelming other evidence that was presented. The dna ties them directly to rape,even without it , all the other evidence shows they were there. The phone is the same make as Davids, picked on the beach meters from the crime (according to Wei Phyo ) at 5am when he went back to retrieve his belongings. Pigs might fly if that phones not David's. Just the fact that they left their belongings on the beach at all, near a murder lights up red to me. It is something people do when leaving in a hurry. Asking other readers for confirmation, as far as I know the cigarette buts were found next to the body. The hiding of the phone is by Wei Phyo own testimony. He gave the phone to his friend, because he was afraid he might be accused of the murder that he had just heard about that morning. the friend smashed it with a hammer and hid it in bushes behind the bungalow. The friend came forward and that's why the case turned from mon to the b2. The judge considered all of the evidences together as a unit with the dna being the highlight of the day. He did not make his decision selectively on 1 piece, as some people on here try to steer us to believe.

They were there, now fess up boys.

Once again you are misleading readers here.

There was no DNA evidence presented just recollections by police that there had been some which is just finger pointing nothing more. It may or may not have once existed and that is open to debate but that is all. You keep insisting the DNA evidence ties the B2 to the crime. That is a lie and you should stop repeating it.

You and the rest of us should really be pressing for an inquiry as to where all the DNA went. Was it pure incompetence which in itself would mean an acquittal or was it criminal which should also mean acquittal + prosecution of those concerned.

[AGareth2]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

point 3 is incorrect

[greenchair]

Oh right Gareth thank you. Where were the butts found.

I thought it was near the bodies and the condom.

[Happy Grumpy]

Thailand has a population based on casts.it has first,second,and third class citizens.the same applies to foreigners living here. Myanmar and Cambodian people are at the bottom of the list.

After Farangs???

Yes.

If you think that's incorrect, swap places with a Cambodian or Burmese migrant in the Thai fishing industry for a few months.

[somo]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

point 3 is incorrect

With the total absence of any DNA evidence connecting the accused to the crime (especially on the murder weapon) these points 1-5 are minor and easily explainable. They may wellhave found the phone then discarded it so as not to be accused of theft. Smoking cigarettes on a beach and disgarding them could lead to a fine for littering but not much else and retrieving your forgotten clothes is a natural thing to do. Leaving them behind after murdering someone would be the unnatural thing to do. These points 1-5 are not evidence of anything.

[greenchair]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

point 3 is incorrect

With the total absence of any DNA evidence connecting the accused to the crime (especially on the murder weapon) these points 1-5 are minor and easily explainable. They may wellhave found the phone then discarded it so as not to be accused of theft. Smoking cigarettes on a beach and disgarding them could lead to a fine for littering but not much else and retrieving your forgotten clothes is a natural thing to do. Leaving them behind after murdering someone would be the unnatural thing to do. These points 1-5 are not evidence of anything.

Yes, maybe you could clear this up for me then.

If their stuff was stolen, but not the shoes and guitar .

Then why did they not pick up the remaining items and take them home ?

If they did not see the items because it was dark.

Why did they go back at 5 oclock in the morning to retrieve stuff that they thought was stolen .

[rockingrobin]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

point 3 is incorrect

With the total absence of any DNA evidence connecting the accused to the crime (especially on the murder weapon) these points 1-5 are minor and easily explainable. They may wellhave found the phone then discarded it so as not to be accused of theft. Smoking cigarettes on a beach and disgarding them could lead to a fine for littering but not much else and retrieving your forgotten clothes is a natural thing to do. Leaving them behind after murdering someone would be the unnatural thing to do. These points 1-5 are not evidence of anything.

Yes, maybe you could clear this up for me then.

If their stuff was stolen, but not the shoes and guitar .

Then why did they not pick up the remaining items and take them home ?

If they did not see the items because it was dark.

Why did they go back at 5 oclock in the morning to retrieve stuff that they thought was stolen .

Greenchair

You answer your own question

But firstly the shoes was never found,

Secondly your statement why did they not retrieve the guitar is puzzling, if the guitar was stolen it would not have been recovered ,

if it was not stolen then MM who the RTP claim is not involved would have recovered it

[greenchair]

Let me think on that for a minute Robin lol.

[greenchair]

I didn't say the guitar was stolen. I said their clothes were stolen. My question is why did they not take the guitar home with them. Who leaves a guitar on the beach over night. It was them that said they left their shoes behind. I am trying to understand why they would leave their stuff at the beach.

Note. . Go on say it. Oh the poor cherub faced angels forgot it in their drunken state.

[Krenjai]

Here is a summary of her take on the court proceedings and was there to witness your all powering DNA greendoor

This is a very short summary, in lay men's terms, of exactly WHY the DNA evidence and it's alleged conclusions (by the Royal Thai Police) are scientifically, and legally, completely and utterly flawed.

1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!

3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)

4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!!!

5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!

For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!

"Below is my own (heidi anna) personal recollection of events, as recalled from all court sessions, to the best of my recollection. I hereby make no claims that it is 100% accurate:

The defense team requested that the DNA be retested independently and the court finally, after much time and the trial was already well underway, agreed. The police first stated that the DNA sample was "all used up", which is-in actuality-scientifically impossible!

Then the police later (one or two days time) stated, "no, it was not all used up. we have some of the solution left." The defense team was granted permission in court to independently retest the sample and so technicians from Dr. Porntip's lab took cheek swabs from both accused boys, in court under close observation, during the court session during which Dr. Porntip testified.

BUT, what actually remained of the police's alleged DNA "evidence" to be retested was, in fact, merely the midway solution required in the actual DNA testing process itself. This midpoint solution will give an accurate profile, however, it CANNOT determine the actual ORIGINAL SOURCE of the DNA! Therefore, it will NOT show if original alleged DNA from the female decedent at the crime scene came from "semen" as the Royal Thai Police claim, or if it in fact came from oral mucosa, skin, hair, blood, saliva, cigarette butts, etc.

Also, the court demanded that the DNA evidence from Dr. Porntip's lab be returned to the COURT itself and NOT to the defense team!!! Thus, the results and factual information would be completely out of the defense teams hands and thereby highly susceptible to contamination / falsification. For those two reasons, the defense team then; very wisely, declined retesting.

Independent verification (and independent receipt) is another "inalienable human right", as well as a legal right, agreed upon per international standards, so, once again; the accused boys rights were severely violated.

As a licensed and board certified medical professional, very familiar with and highly experienced with legalities as well as the strict scientifically necessary procedures which MUST be adhered to during the collection of (and rigid documentation of) forensic evidence acquired from rape victims in the Emergency Room intended to be used in a legal court of law in the United States of America, I'm shocked and appalled by the disgracefully unprofessional and non-scientifically qualifying (accurate) collection and so called documentation methods utilized by members of the Royal Thai Police whilst on the crime scene, as well as every action and process of documentation of the alleged DNA evidence utilized and displayed by the Royal Thai police de facto crime scene location. It is my educated and highly experienced professional, and personal, opinion that no one can even be at all certain-in any way-that there ever actually was semen present at the crime scene.

Excellent post and refreshing to read. I am sure that Hannah her clothes would have revealed the "real' DNA of the perpetrators, but......as we know.....her clothes got lost by the RTP. How in the hell do you lose those clothes, unless you want to lose them, right?

[Krenjai]

Anonymous hacks away 1 GB.......(download link available in the twitter post)

http://news.softpedia.com/news/anonymous-releases-1gb-of-data-from-supreme-court-of-thailand-498941.shtml?utm_content=bufferdd5fc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The RTP must be getting under huge pressure but the Koh Tao verdict will stil stand up in the Appeals & Supreme Courts so they better prepare for a long battle with the Hacker Anonymous Group, which is a battle I wouldn't wish to have.......!

[greenchair]

It was not that long ago that dna was not even used in the courts. Even now, it is extremely controversial.

Having possession of the victims phone.

Leaving belongings next to the crime.

Revisiting the crime to retrieve belongings.

Hiding and destroying victims belongings.

30 years ago, this would have been a mountain of evidence in a western court, they have been convicted based on the many connection they had to the victims and the crime scene.

The defense lawyers said, this is the first time they have challenged dna in a Thai court.

Considering thailand is a few years behind. Throw out dna, they still had reasonable evidence that would secure a conviction in the west 30 years ago. There is too much wrong in their testimony to risk letting them go.

[KunMatt]

It was not that long ago that dna was not even used in the courts. Even now, it is extremely controversial.

Having possession of the victims phone.

Leaving belongings next to the crime.

Revisiting the crime to retrieve belongings.

Hiding and destroying victims belongings.

30 years ago, this would have been a mountain of evidence in a western court, they have been convicted based on the many connection they had to the victims and the crime scene.

The defense lawyers said, this is the first time they have challenged dna in a Thai court.

Considering thailand is a few years behind. Throw out dna, they still had reasonable evidence that would secure a conviction in the west 30 years ago. There is too much wrong in their testimony to risk letting them go.

So do you believe that the B2 murdered Hannah and David?

And do you think they did it alone?