Lawyers Council to appeal Koh Tao convicts’ death sentence

[JLCrab]

That's OK. When in the Bible i says " Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." it doesn't say

"Then you will know what you think is the truth, and what you think is the truth will set you free." .. and there's a lot on here who between the two don't seem to know or think it makes any difference.

Edited January 28, 2016 by JLCrab

[grumbleweed]

That's OK. When in the Bible i says " Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." it doesn't say

"Then you will know what you think is the truth, and what you think is the truth will set you free." .. and there's a lot on here who between the two don't seem to know or think it makes any difference.

Sorry but I fail to understand what a book of fairy tales has to do with truth

[JLCrab]

That's OK. When in the Bible i says " Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." it doesn't say

"Then you will know what you think is the truth, and what you think is the truth will set you free." .. and there's a lot on here who between the two don't seem to know or think it makes any difference.

Sorry but I fail to understand what a book of fairy tales has to do with truth

I guess I have my fairy tales and you have yours.

[iReason]

"The United Nations Commission on Human Rights, in resolution 1985/33, decided to appoint an expert, a special rapporteur, to examine questions relevant to torture."

"The mandate was extended for 3 years by Human Rights Council resolution 25/13 in March 2014."

"It covers all countries, irrespective of whether a State has ratified the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Torture/SRTorture/Pages/SRTortureIndex.aspx

[jayjay78]

Breaking news from Bangkok Post

Anonymous & Blink Hacker Group strikes again, Thai Prison websites now down

[DiscoDan]

"The United Nations Commission on Human Rights, in resolution 1985/33, decided to appoint an expert, a special rapporteur, to examine questions relevant to torture."

"The mandate was extended for 3 years by Human Rights Council resolution 25/13 in March 2014."

"It covers all countries, irrespective of whether a State has ratified the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Torture/SRTorture/Pages/SRTortureIndex.aspx

More hot air from the people who didn't let Jane Taupin take the stand,

Maybe its a way to get the funds rolling in I see already the fundraiser page is being posted on here again,

What do they say ?" a fool and there money are soon departed"

[jayjay78]

"The United Nations Commission on Human Rights, in resolution 1985/33, decided to appoint an expert, a special rapporteur, to examine questions relevant to torture."

"The mandate was extended for 3 years by Human Rights Council resolution 25/13 in March 2014."

"It covers all countries, irrespective of whether a State has ratified the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Torture/SRTorture/Pages/SRTortureIndex.aspx

More hot air from the people who didn't let Jane Taupin take the stand,

Maybe its a way to get the funds rolling in I see already the fundraiser page is being posted on here again,

What do they say ?" a fool and there money are soon departed"

If Jane had of taken the stand what would you have said then, more hot air?

[catsanddogs]

Breaking news from Bangkok Post

Anonymous & Blink Hacker Group strikes again, Thai Prison websites now down

http://time.com/4197695/hackers-thai-prisons-koh-tao-backpacker-murders/

[iReason]

"What do they say ?" a fool and there money are soon departed" Their?

Ignorance is bliss...

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Edited January 28, 2016 by iReason

[subterminalvelocity]

Right on. Those incompetent bums will have their feathers a flurry as they slap each of the prison desktops trying to get them working.

[JLCrab]

Breaking news from Bangkok Post

Anonymous & Blink Hacker Group strikes again, Thai Prison websites now down

From: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1453808903&typecate=06&section=

According to (lead defense attorney) Nakhon, the prison wardens also withhold money transferred for their use by their supporters and families. “We deposit money for them, but it still hasn’t reached them,” Nakhon said.

Reply (maybe) from NST Prison: Since our computers have been hacked, now we just don't have any idea where that money is.

Edited January 28, 2016 by JLCrab

[iReason]

"MYANMAR'S military commander-in-chief Senior General Min Aung Hlaing yesterday called for a review of the Koh Tao case in which two Myanmar men were sentenced to death,

for the murder of two British backpackers."

"The verdict had angered his compatriots in the neighboring country."

"It's very rare for leaders in Nay |Pyi Taw to express grave concern over the plight of ordinary citizens abroad."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Myanmar-military-chief-weighs-in-on-Koh-Tao-murder-30275784.html

Edited January 28, 2016 by iReason

[Khun Han]

"The United Nations Commission on Human Rights, in resolution 1985/33, decided to appoint an expert, a special rapporteur, to examine questions relevant to torture."

"The mandate was extended for 3 years by Human Rights Council resolution 25/13 in March 2014."

"It covers all countries, irrespective of whether a State has ratified the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment."

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Torture/SRTorture/Pages/SRTortureIndex.aspx

More hot air from the people who didn't let Jane Taupin take the stand,

Maybe its a way to get the funds rolling in I see already the fundraiser page is being posted on here again,

What do they say ?" a fool and there money are soon departed"

Great move by Andy Hall.

Reminds the powers-that-be in Thailand that they may be able to act with impunity in their little fiefdom, but the bigger world isn't part of that fiefdom.

[Khun Han]

Breaking news from Bangkok Post

Anonymous & Blink Hacker Group strikes again, Thai Prison websites now down

From: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1453808903&typecate=06&section=

According to (lead defense attorney) Nakhon, the prison wardens also withhold money transferred for their use by their supporters and families. “We deposit money for them, but it still hasn’t reached them,” Nakhon said.

Reply (maybe) from NST Prison: Since our computers have been hacked, now we just don't have any idea where that money is.

I see that the inanity pot is starting to run dry.

[JLCrab]

Breaking news from Bangkok Post

Anonymous & Blink Hacker Group strikes again, Thai Prison websites now down

From: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1453808903&typecate=06&section=

According to (lead defense attorney) Nakhon, the prison wardens also withhold money transferred for their use by their supporters and families. “We deposit money for them, but it still hasn’t reached them,” Nakhon said.

Reply (maybe) from NST Prison: Since our computers have been hacked, now we just don't have any idea where that money is.

I see that the inanity pot is starting to run dry.

Not any time soon -- but maybe the prison system could have some advantage in having their computers hacked. 'Now just where is that release order???'

[iReason]

"Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September,

confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

[iReason]

"The National Human Rights Commission of Thailand (NHRCT) has been downgraded from full membership to observer status

after being reviewed by the International Coordinating Committee (ICC)

– an international body that reviews and assesses performances of national human rights institutions (NHRIs) worldwide."

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/41683/

Edited January 28, 2016 by iReason

[lucky11]

"Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September,

confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Just what bearing does this have on the case if they killed David and Hannah.

This is simply a technicality or unfortunate oversight, if true.

Say, someone overtly went on a rampage in America and killed 15 people in a school, posting a video on U tube to air after after the killings saying what he had planned to do. If he didn't have a lawyer representing him at all times, should they release him as a consequence of failing to provide one? Does it make him less guilty of his crime? A lawyer cannot reverse what they did, can he.

[lucky11]

"The National Human Rights Commission of Thailand (NHRCT) has been downgraded from full membership to observer status

after being reviewed by the International Coordinating Committee (ICC)

– an international body that reviews and assesses performances of national human rights institutions (NHRIs) worldwide."

https://thaipoliticalprisoners.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/41683/

Wow!! I bet they are grief stricken at that!!

[iReason]

"The National Human Rights Commission of Thailand, or NHRC, has been downgraded from by its international governing organization,

a decision one commissioner hopes will be overturned later this year."

"Citing a failure to maintain independence and address human rights violations in a timely manner, the commission’s international coordinating committee announced Thailand was downgraded from A-level status to “B” on Thursday, a year after it first issued a warning to the Thai rights agency."

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1453983941&typecate=06&section=

Edited January 28, 2016 by iReason

[IslandLover]

subterminalvelocity, on 28 Jan 2016 - 05:18, said:

boomerangutang, on 28 Jan 2016 - 03:29, said:

subterminalvelocity, on 27 Jan 2016 - 17:17, said:

Does anyone know of former Commander Panya's whereabouts?

In my view, he is the one with the key.

I think Panya is a good water carrier boy. He certainly doesn't want to rock the boat of conventionalism by speaking out about what he knows. Maintaining his salary is paramount. While he was trying to do a decent job as initial head investigator, he was under extreme pressure from his Bkk betters to;

A. arrest suspects very quickly because tourism would suffer by any delay, and

B. Don't touch the Toovichiens or their buddies.

Regarding 'A': we farang know that tourism doesn't suffer if there's an ongoing professional investigation. Tourism suffers when scapegoats are nailed and VIP are unfairly let off the hook, and vicious murderers are allowed to roam at will. Thais don't know that. Regarding 'B': Panya started out by following where the clues led and announced they had prime suspects and were ready to arrest them. Very soon after that he was put in the anvil of reality, with the Toovichiens on one side and BKK top brass (incl. the PM) on the other side.

He got yanked off the case - given a Bkk desk job and a raise and told to keep quiet forever about the case. He may have also got a giant gift from the Headman or Mon, possible transferred to him by NS's lawyer (the lawyer is lifelong friends with NS's mother). We'll probably never know because top brass police obviously don't want any meddling in such things. Are they going to investigate possible bribe taking within their own ranks? Are they going to bust themselves? You tell me.

C'mon pal, I just wish to know of his whereabouts?

It's a pretty basic question.

Don't worry, I'm on your side but have really had enough of super sleuths and shills.

The truth is I don't think anybody knows of his whereabouts, except his family, the RTP and the Thai government of course. They are all remaining tight-lipped.

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection post and replies have been removed.

[boomerangutang]

"Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September,

confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Just what bearing does this have on the case if they killed David and Hannah.

This is simply a technicality or unfortunate oversight, if true.

Say, someone overtly went on a rampage in America and killed 15 people in a school, posting a video on U tube to air after after the killings saying what he had planned to do. If he didn't have a lawyer representing him at all times, should they release him as a consequence of failing to provide one? Does it make him less guilty of his crime? A lawyer cannot reverse what they did, can he.

For people accused of being murderers: to not have a lawyer has no bearing on the case or the carrying out of justice, according to Lucky11. Does it matter whether the accused understand the charges being brought against them? Does it matter that the translator is not professional nor good at his job and likely mis-translating the accusations? Does it matter that the translator added his own spin to the accusations (broken bottle, etc) and physically abused the accused? (note: the B2 claimed being tortured and specified that they were more afraid of the translators than the cops in the room).

Lucky, it would it be interesting to see you in a room in similar circumstances as the B2. Perhaps in Ugunda, falsely accused of murder. How fair would you assess the process? I wouldn't doubt Ugundan cops are as well-apprised of how to inflict torture (without any evident markings on the tortured person's body) ...as Thai cops. I even know how to inflict torture without it showing any marks, and I'm not even a cop. Hint: here are some of the tools that can be used: two wires tied to a power souce (AC or DC), pliers, a bic lighter, a length of rubber hose, long sharp object (chopstick or ice pick), plastic or rubber bags, water, smoke, chemicals (caustic, foul smelling, or...?), vapors, photos of next-of-kin of person being tortured, .....the list is long.

The truth is I don't think anybody knows of his (Panya's) whereabouts, except his family, the RTP and the Thai government of course. They are all remaining tight-lipped.

Panya is a little spoke in the big wheel of Thai officialdom. Even before he became a cop he knew that the #1 requirement was to follow orders, no matter how wrong-headed the order from his higher ups are. #2 is to maintain salary no matter what. In Chiang Rai we have many government workers (tens of thousands) and offices (hundreds). They work on the same principle. Does anything of value get done? No, but that's not even secondary importance, ....that's off the radar.

[PaPiPuPePo]

"Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September,

confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Again I appreciate your posting links to these articles. I've missed some so these postings of yours fill some info gaps.

Edited January 29, 2016 by PaPiPuPePo

[PaPiPuPePo]

"Police Colonel Prathoom Ruangtong, who initially took charge of the investigation, after the bodies of the pair were found on Sairee Beach in Koh Tao, last September,

confirmed the two Burmese immigrant workers had not been provided with their own lawyers."

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/koh_tao_murder_trial_defendents_did_not_have_representation_during_interrogations_court_hears_1_4211590

Just what bearing does this have on the case if they killed David and Hannah.

This is simply a technicality or unfortunate oversight, if true.

Say, someone overtly went on a rampage in America and killed 15 people in a school, posting a video on U tube to air after after the killings saying what he had planned to do. If he didn't have a lawyer representing him at all times, should they release him as a consequence of failing to provide one? Does it make him less guilty of his crime? A lawyer cannot reverse what they did, can he.

For people accused of being murderers: to not have a lawyer has no bearing on the case or the carrying out of justice, according to Lucky11. Does it matter whether the accused understand the charges being brought against them? Does it matter that the translator is not professional nor good at his job and likely mis-translating the accusations? Does it matter that the translator added his own spin to the accusations (broken bottle, etc) and physically abused the accused? (note: the B2 claimed being tortured and specified that they were more afraid of the translators than the cops in the room).

Lucky, it would it be interesting to see you in a room in similar circumstances as the B2. Perhaps in Ugunda, falsely accused of murder. How fair would you assess the process? I wouldn't doubt Ugundan cops are as well-apprised of how to inflict torture (without any evident markings on the tortured person's body) ...as Thai cops. I even know how to inflict torture without it showing any marks, and I'm not even a cop. Hint: here are some of the tools that can be used: two wires tied to a power souce (AC or DC), pliers, a bic lighter, a length of rubber hose, long sharp object (chopstick or ice pick), plastic or rubber bags, water, smoke, chemicals (caustic, foul smelling, or...?), vapors, photos of next-of-kin of person being tortured, .....the list is long.

iR It's generous of you to try dialogue with this member but look at his response to your initial post, it's so inane and unrelated to either standard legal practice or the facts of this particular case that IMO it is just trolling (or simple stupidity) and deserves nothing more than being ignored, just like the person who keeps posting these troll-like comments.

And yet, now he's gotten me to waste a couple minutes of MY time as well. That's how they work.....

Edited January 29, 2016 by PaPiPuPePo

[iReason]

Papi,

This member has been on my ignore list for a long time.

I never respond to, nor read, his wild rhetoric.

He just quotes me.

I view this poster as unstable.

Edited January 29, 2016 by iReason

[JLCrab]

Papi,

This member has been on my ignore list for a long time.

I never respond to, nor read, his wild rhetoric.

He just quotes me.

I view this poster as unstable.

I agree -- much better to spend one's time on ThaiVisa reading or responding to unstable persons who agree with you rather than unstable persons who disagree with you.

[jayjay78]

The defense needs to make sure that in the Appeal there is absolutely no excuse for the prosecution not disclosing all the relevant DNA documents as required under international standards. Without these then this alone should be enough for an overturn of the conviction on appeal as the DNA evidence should not be admissable: http://www.americanbar.org/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_dnaevidence.html#4.1

Standard 4.1 Disclosure

(a) The prosecutor should be required, within a specified and reasonable time prior to trial, to make available to the defense the following information and material relating to DNA evidence:

(i) laboratory reports as provided in Standard 3.3;

(ii) if different from or not contained in any laboratory report, a written description of the substance of the proposed testimony of each expert, the expert’s opinion, and the underlying basis of that opinion;

(iii) the laboratory case file and case notes;

(iv) a curriculum vitae for each testifying expert and for each person involved in the testing;

(v) the written material specified in Standard 3.1(a);

(vi) reports of all proficiency examinations of each testifying expert and each person involved in the testing, with further information on proficiency testing discoverable on a showing of particularized need;

(vii) the chain of custody documents specified in Standard 2.5;

(viii) all raw electronic data produced during testing;

(ix) reports of laboratory contamination and other laboratory problems affecting testing procedures or results relevant to the evaluation of the procedures and test results obtained in the case and corrective actions taken in response; and

(x) a list of collected items that there is reason to believe contained DNA evidence but have been destroyed or lost, or have otherwise become unavailable;

(xi) material or information within the prosecutor’s possession or control, including laboratory information or material, that would tend to negate the guilt of the defendant or reduce the punishment of the defendant.

( The defense should be required, within a specified and reasonable time prior to trial, to make available to the prosecution the information and material in subdivision (a)(i) through (ix) of this standard for each expert whose testimony the defense intends to offer.

[lucky11]

Papi,

This member has been on my ignore list for a long time.

I never respond to, nor read, his wild rhetoric.

He just quotes me.

I view this poster as unstable.

I agree -- much better to spend one's time on ThaiVisa reading or responding to unstable persons who agree with you rather than unstable persons who disagree with you.

I'm getting rather bored with this troll calling thing.

You are right JL, if anyone shoots their posts down in flames, or they are incapable of countering a post............then out it comes............troll alert..........ignore list.........unstable (that's a new one).......and I see that timmy was called a supertroll on another topic - just what did he do to be credited with that moniker?

Instead of this childish name calling, why don't they reply with a sensible retort to my posts - oh! I forgot, they are incapable of doing this!! that explains everything.

I thought such accusations were against forum rules - they should be more careful in the future. You are allowed to ignore me, but cease this troll thing please.

[lucky11]

The defense needs to make sure that in the Appeal there is absolutely no excuse for the prosecution not disclosing all the relevant DNA documents as required under international standards. Without these then this alone should be enough for an overturn of the conviction on appeal as the DNA evidence should not be admissable: http://www.americanbar.org/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_dnaevidence.html#4.1

Standard 4.1 Disclosure

(a) The prosecutor should be required, within a specified and reasonable time prior to trial, to make available to the defense the following information and material relating to DNA evidence:

(i) laboratory reports as provided in Standard 3.3;

(ii) if different from or not contained in any laboratory report, a written description of the substance of the proposed testimony of each expert, the expert’s opinion, and the underlying basis of that opinion;

(iii) the laboratory case file and case notes;

(iv) a curriculum vitae for each testifying expert and for each person involved in the testing;

(v) the written material specified in Standard 3.1(a);

(vi) reports of all proficiency examinations of each testifying expert and each person involved in the testing, with further information on proficiency testing discoverable on a showing of particularized need;

(vii) the chain of custody documents specified in Standard 2.5;

(viii) all raw electronic data produced during testing;

(ix) reports of laboratory contamination and other laboratory problems affecting testing procedures or results relevant to the evaluation of the procedures and test results obtained in the case and corrective actions taken in response; and

(x) a list of collected items that there is reason to believe contained DNA evidence but have been destroyed or lost, or have otherwise become unavailable;

(xi) material or information within the prosecutor’s possession or control, including laboratory information or material, that would tend to negate the guilt of the defendant or reduce the punishment of the defendant.

( The defense should be required, within a specified and reasonable time prior to trial, to make available to the prosecution the information and material in subdivision (a)(i) through (ix) of this standard for each expert whose testimony the defense intends to offer.

Why don't you send this to AH - I'm sure that he will send it on to the rest of the defence team. Thai's really appreciate being told how to do their job - they seek all of the international help they can get, such as with experts like Taupin, well maybe not her, or the Dutch when it comes to flooding advice, what do you mean they didn't listen to them? but, a TV member, well that's a different matter. I think that they base their defence case around your recommendations in using this as the central plank of their strategy in the appeal!! You never know, it could happen.