Starting To Learn Thai

[eu.stefan]

So today is my first day of studying Thai. I will have to do it by myself, with the help of internet sites. I am beginning to learn the alphabet first, and have learned the first 6 consonants - from Ko Kai to Ngo Ngu. I have lots of difficulties with the tones though. I use www.learningthai.com and Wikipedia for the alphabet. Any other suggestions welcome!

How much time will it take me to learn how to speak well enough to understand and be understood if I study all day?

Thanks!

PS: By the way, I am a good language learner, already speak English (fluently) and Greek (good), with my mother tongue - Bulgarian.

[meadish_sweetball]

It's very hard to say, and depends on what and how you study, and also if you are in Thailand or not.

I would say, tentatively, that if you study effectively 6-8 hours per day, you will be able to achieve an acceptable pronunciation, do small talk and basic Thai within 8 months to 1 year... but it is a difficult question, because we are all different and learn at different speeds.

[hasekamp]

Hello,

It is a bit silly and useless to study a language "all day". I would suggest that one to two hours a day is the absolute maximum. If you study more, you won't remember things.

Better half an hour a day, but EVERY day! That is the secret of learning a language: Preactice EVERY day.

http://www.laearningthai is good. Start with Manee book one. It also teaches you the alphabet. Later you can use thye separate trainers on the site for the alphabet and the tones. Start with Manee! For book two of Manee (called Manii there) and another good reader go to http://www.seasite.niu.edu/Thai/default.htm (click on the door at the left and choose reading).

A different apoproach, but also effective for starters, is at http://www.teachthai.com/ . You have to make your choice. Don't use different methods at the same time.

You will also need a good grammar book. The best is "Fundamentals of the Thai Language", but it is difficult to obtain nowadays.

Now, if you study every day, it will take you at least a year, if not longer, to learn to read. I am also a 'quick learner' of languages, but in my humble opinion I will need two or three years to tread fluently. Do you also want to write? Add another year. The Thai language is very complex, because of its alphabet (Greek is nothing compared to Thai) and the tone rules.

For westerners it really takes a long time to get familiar with them. I*f yuou could say in how much time you learned a language like Chines, I would say, reckon with thw same time for Thai.

Greek? Piece of cake! English? Extremely easy. Same for French, German, Spanish and you name what other European language.

I can read simple Thai texts reasonably well now, but speaking and understanding? That is quite a different matter!

It takes lots and lots of time and lots and lots of practice with native speakers to learn that. And writing? I did not even start wit that! And reading a newspaper is yet again another matter!

You really overestimate yourself (even if you are a genius in European languages) to think that learning Thai can be compared in any way to learning a Euriopean language. I can speak and read five European languages at a reasonable or good level, but learning Thai is another world.

I don't want to discourage you completely, but what I said above is the bitter truth. Reading, spaeaking and understanding within one year? No way!

Regards,

Rene Hasekamp

(http://www.hasekamp.net/thaiindex.htm)

[meadish_sweetball]

ไม่ทราพว่าคุณ haselkamp ได้อ่านข้อความที่ผมเขียนละเอียดแค่ไหน เนื่องจากว่าไม่มีใครอ้างว่า เราสามารถ อ่าน เขียน หรือ ฟังภาศาไทยออกได้ภายในปีเดียวเหมือนคุณ haselkamp พูดด้านบนนี้

I said "tentatively, that if you study effectively 6-8 hours per day, you will be able to achieve an acceptable pronunciation, do small talk and basic Thai within 8 months to 1 year"

In my humble opinion, that is slightly different from "Reading, spaeaking[sic!] and understanding within one year".

We all have different perceptions of when you are "fluent", when you "can read" and so forth, that's why it makes sense to specify how you personally define the expression... and why it also makes sense to use this ability to read, in order to take in what other people are saying, before discrediting their advice.

What I based my estimation on, was myself as well as the other people I studied with during my first year of learning Thai.

We did learn the basics of reading and writing Thai within the space of 6 months.

This means, those of us who did not drop out before the end of those six months, knew the entire alphabet, could sound out written Thai with largely correct pronunciation and correct tones, and knew the consonant classes and tone rules as well as the more common irregular spellings given in the AUA reading and writing books.

We were able to write Thai according to the regular spelling rules (obviously not all the exceptions and irregular Sanskrit/Pali, Khmer or English-based spellings). Our reading speed was very slow. But we did know how to read, it just took a lot of time and concentration to do so. As for understanding what we read - well, that took longer.

When I came to Thailand after my first year of studies (and I did study 5-6 hours per day during that year, with about 15-20% of that being lesson time with a Thai teacher, the rest self studies - practicing writing, reading, listening comprehension and translation) I could engage people in simple conversation, ask for directions, talk about myself, my studies, my family and a little bit about my country and my main interests making myself understood - I could also ask other people these questions, although I did have some problems understanding what they were saying at first, as they did not speak as slowly and correctly as my teacher.

As for fully understanding newspapers, I am still not there now - 8 years later.

Anyways, you can be fully conversant in everyday Thai without understanding newspapers; the language used in newspapers is different to everyday spoken Thai, and needs to be studied separately. The Bangkok Post provides good opportunity for doing so in their series 'sap jaak khaaw' (Words from the News) and the series of English-Thai newspaper article translation in "Translate It!". For a beginner, those are a few years up ahead though.

I hope that was a bit clearer. If you are still not convinced, I am sure Rikker who pops in to the forum now and then, can tell you more about his Thai learning experiences... His progress was a lot quicker than mine.

[hasekamp]

Dear meadish_sweetball,

You apparently had a native Thai speaker as your teacher and, if I understand things well, you studied Thai in Thailand, while living there.

That is quite a different starting point from the gentlemen from Bulgaria, who wants to study Thai without a Thai teacher, with the (good as it may be) website http://www.learningthai.com or similar websites as his teacher.

He seems to think that he will be able to communicate with Thai people in Thailand in about a year then, which is impossible. That is what I tried to say.

He will - however - be able to read and understand the 'Manee' books, but he will not be able to ask somebody in the street what the shortest way to Hua Lampong is, and which bus he should best take to get there.

He will be able to say some standard sentences, but if a Thai person replies, he won't understand the answer.

I do believe, however, that one can learn Thai fairly within a year, if one lives and works between Thai speaking people in Thailand.

My post, therefore, was not meant to offend you, but to warn eu.stefan, who seems to thinks that learning Thai is something like learning English or Greek, which is not the case.

Regards,

Rene Hasekamp

(sorry if there are still some typing errors)

[taxexile]

เนื่องจากว่า

what does that phrase mean ??

[meadish_sweetball]

Tax: http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/19738.html

[meadish_sweetball]

Dear meadish_sweetball,

You apparently had a native Thai speaker as your teacher and, if I understand things well, you studied Thai in Thailand, while living there.

I did have a native speaker as my main teacher, that is correct. I studied in Sweden though.

That is quite a different starting point from the gentlemen from Bulgaria, who wants to study Thai without a Thai teacher, with the (good as it may be) website http://www.learningthai.com or similar websites as his teacher.

He seems to think that he will be able to communicate with Thai people in Thailand in about a year then, which is impossible. That is what I tried to say.

I agree it is not likely - if he has a gift for languages, and puts a strong emphasis on learning life-like dialogue though, he should be able to get to the stage where he can have simple conversations with Thais about basic things after about one year. Ideally, he should seek out Thais to practice with - not sure if there are many Thais living in Bulgaria, but if he's in a major city there might be a Thai restaurant around. Making friends with any Thais working there is a great way of practicing conversation - apart from the benefit of having a Thai to discuss cultural differences etc. with.

He will - however - be able to read and understand the 'Manee' books, but he will not be able to ask somebody in the street what the shortest way to Hua Lampong is, and which bus he should best take to get there.

He will be able to say some standard sentences, but if a Thai person replies, he won't understand the answer.

Yes, that is possible - we all learn at different paces. It is equally possible he will know even less than what you describe. Some people never manage to learn the tonal system properly, no matter how much they try.

I do believe, however, that one can learn Thai fairly within a year, if one lives and works between Thai speaking people in Thailand.

My post, therefore, was not meant to offend you, but to warn eu.stefan, who seems to thinks that learning Thai is something like learning English or Greek, which is not the case.

Regards,

Rene Hasekamp

(sorry if there are still some typing errors)

No problem. It looked as if it was my post you were commenting.

I also agree the difference between learning an Indo-European language as opposed to Thai or Chinese is larger than one might think at first.

[khonnaarak]

เนื่องจากว่า

what does that phrase mean ??

U suppose to know it, don't u ?

[BlackArtemis]

6-8 hrs a day?

I had a 2 week crash course 4hrs a day at CMU when I started my semester abroad, then it went down to 2hrs a day. We studied Thai for about 2 months.

Within the first week we were having small talk.

Now stupid me opted out of the written class and now after 1 year of life in LOS (I went back home, got my BA and came back) I can hold 1-2hr conversations in Thai, but I am illiterate.... And working 60hrs a week with my fiancee means we don't have the time for her to teach me how to read and write...

[endure]

You will also need a good grammar book. The best is "Fundamentals of the Thai Language", but it is difficult to obtain nowadays.

'Fundamentals' is available as a download here:

http://www.thai-info2004.com/the_language_thailand.htm

[taxexile]

khon mai naarak

U suppose to know it, don't u ?

ไมมีงานทำหรือ

i think i know who you are !

กวนตีนหรือเปล่า

..... your english could do with a wash and brush up too !

[robitusson]

How much time will it take me to learn how to speak well enough to understand and be understood if I study all day?

All day? At any kind of worthwhile level, about 3 months. Make sure you're motivated.

I pretty much gave up on regular lessons and my own study when I became more familiar with Thai people and the national character. Say no more.

[khonnaarak]

khon mai naarak

ไมมีงานทำหรือ

Oh my God that's so RUDE !!!!!! ไม่มีอะไรทำหรอก กินๆนอนๆไปวัน ก็เหมือนคนบางคนนั่นแหละ

i think i know who you are !

กวนตีนหรือเปล่า

ไม่สุภาพเลยนะ ใครสอนเนี่ย ? :

..... your english could do with a wash and brush up too !

ฝากไว้ก่อนนะโอฬารรรรรรรรรรรรรรรร :annoyed ทีใครทีมันละกัน

:

[meadish_sweetball]

ไม่ต้องคิดมากครับ คุณคนน่ารัก กะว่าคุณ แทกซ์ คงหมายถึง กวนโอ้ยมากกว่านะครับ บางทีเราได้ยินคำใหม่และรูสึกอยากลอง อย่างคนไทยเรียนภาษาอังกฤษ ลองอุธาน ฟัก ยู ซึ่งแสนไม่สุภาพ แต่เราไม่ว่าเขา เพราะเข้าใจว่าเขายังไม่รู้ความหมาย อันแท้จริง ของคำนี้ว่ามันไม่สุภาพ ขนาดไหนนะครับ

[Doug]

Fundamentals of Thai is also available here:

Multi-Language Dictionary Project

Click on "Thai" in the menu at the left. It's a free download. Personally, I find it far too complex for me.

Also, this project has a program called "Speak Easy Thai" which has the Thai alphabet spoken by a native Thai speaker, plus more than 5000 words with pictures and sounds. You can download most of it free from the link above, or buy a complete CD-ROM for about US$25 from Thai Culture Publishing. If you choose to download, you can donate $25 to the project to unlock the protected files; then you get the same as on the CD. Same same either way.

[taxexile]

กวนตีนหรือเปล่า

ไม่สุภาพเลยนะ ใครสอนเนี่ย :

จำไม่ไดหรือ .......คุณครู

คนไม่น่ารัก was my thai teacher for a long while , is actually very ม่ารัก , and taught me all the bad language that i know , as well as a lot of good language , and worked hard trying to teach me to write and spell , something i fear i will always struggle with .

if i could name her school to recommend her then i would , mods ...... can i name the school ???

[khonnaarak]

ไม่ต้องคิดมากครับ คุณคนน่ารัก กะว่าคุณ แทกซ์ คงหมายถึง กวนโอ้ยมากกว่านะครับ บางทีเราได้ยินคำใหม่และรูสึกอยากลอง อย่างคนไทยเรียนภาษาอังกฤษ ลองอุธาน ฟัก ยู ซึ่งแสนไม่สุภาพ แต่เราไม่ว่าเขา เพราะเข้าใจว่าเขายังไม่รู้ความหมาย อันแท้จริง ของคำนี้ว่ามันไม่สุภาพ ขนาดไหนนะครับ

Sounds better. เข้าใจค่ะ จริงก็ไม่ได้ถือหรอก แค่แกล้งล้อเล่น ขอบคุณที่พยายามแก้ตัวแทนเขานะ ก็เข้าใจว่าคำไม่ดีแสนที่จะจำง่ายๆ จริงมะ

[khonnaarak]

จำไม่ไดหรือ .......คุณครู

ไม่ได้ not ได

คนไม่น่ารัก was my thai teacher for a long while , is actually very ม่ารัก

น่ารัก not ม่า

, and taught me all the bad language that i know

ไม่จริงงงงงงงงงงงงงงงงงงงง อย่าไปเชื่อ

That's Back Handed Compliment Thanks .....I think

and worked hard trying to teach me to write and spell

ใช่ๆๆๆๆๆๆๆๆ แต่สนุกดี นะ จริงไหมคะ

, something i fear i will always struggle with .

if i could name her school to recommend her then i would , mods ...... can i name the school ???

Well If u didn't start with the back handed compliment ,

[taxexile]

ใช่ .........สนุกดี