Withholding tax in Thailand - Refund possible for Expat ?

[Bagsida]

@ skatewash

Do you remember which documents you was asked for only to get the Tax ID ?

Yes, that's a funny story. The only two things they wanted to see for that were my passport and proof of where I lived. Passport, of course, was no problem. Proof of where I lived was another story. .............

O.k. - now my experiences made today :

I visited the Tax Revenue Office Branch 1 (close to the jail or better in front of the provincial court in Phuket town).

They told me for Tambon Wichit I have to consult the Tax Revenue Office Branch 2 (in Chalong close to Wine Connection).

There they were very kind as well but they asked many questions about what I am doing in Thailand (retired), why I like to get a Tax ID (for claim the withholding tax) and from where the money on my account is (transfer from home country).

Then they asked for a document which is confirming my address. I offered them a water bill (on the name of the landlord), a internet bill (on my name) and a rental contract (would have to pick up and come again), but they gave me a form in Thai.

This form is a confirmation about I rent a house und I am allowed to run a business there

So I called there and asked why the landlord should confirm that I am allowed to run a business in that house, that´s not what I am doing there, and why they don´t accept the rental contract.

They told me that they would need such a short document and that they only have this for run a business, but I could write an own confirmation without the allowance of running a business in Thai.

So for now I wasn´t sucessful

After getting the confirmation from my landlord incl. ID card copy I will try to get the Tax ID again.

With Tax ID it´s possible to claim taxes for the last 3 years but has to be before 31. March 2016 for 2013 / 2014 / 2015 incl. withhold taxes deducted from interest on saving accounts. Withholding taxes are deducted from the interest on saving accounts if the interest is more than THB 20,000 per account - under THB 20.000 no WHT will be deducted and so there is nothing could claim back.

It seems to the regulations for apply a Tax ID in Thailand getting harder for expats.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Bagsida

[skatewash]

@ skatewash

Do you remember which documents you was asked for only to get the Tax ID ?

Yes, that's a funny story. The only two things they wanted to see for that were my passport and proof of where I lived. Passport, of course, was no problem. Proof of where I lived was another story. .............

O.k. - now my experiences made today :

I visited the Tax Revenue Office Branch 1 (close to the jail or better in front of the provincial court in Phuket town).

They told me for Tambon Wichit I have to consult the Tax Revenue Office Branch 2 (in Chalong close to Wine Connection).

There they were very kind as well but they asked many questions about what I am doing in Thailand (retired), why I like to get a Tax ID (for claim the withholding tax) and from where the money on my account is (transfer from home country).

Then they asked for a document which is confirming my address. I offered them a water bill (on the name of the landlord), a internet bill (on my name) and a rental contract (would have to pick up and come again), but they gave me a form in Thai.

This form is a confirmation about I rent a house und I am allowed to run a business there

So I called there and asked why the landlord should confirm that I am allowed to run a business in that house, that´s not what I am doing there, and why they don´t accept the rental contract.

They told me that they would need such a short document and that they only have this for run a business, but I could write an own confirmation without the allowance of running a business in Thai.

So for now I wasn´t sucessful

After getting the confirmation from my landlord incl. ID card copy I will try to get the Tax ID again.

With Tax ID it´s possible to claim taxes for the last 3 years but has to be before 31. March 2016 for 2013 / 2014 / 2015 incl. withhold taxes deducted from interest on saving accounts. Withholding taxes are deducted from the interest on saving accounts if the interest is more than THB 20,000 per account - under THB 20.000 no WHT will be deducted and so there is nothing could claim back.

It seems to the regulations for apply a Tax ID in Thailand getting harder for expats.

You're making progress

You're dealing with the right office. Not sure why the rental contract wasn't sufficient (assuming it lists your name, address, period of occupancy, and is signed by you and the owner). I was led to believe that would have been sufficient for me (but this was back in Feb 2015, when I got my tax id). Certainly the internet bill in your name should be confirmatory evidence of where you live. I can see why they may disregard the water bill as confirmatory evidence because your name doesn't appear on it.

As for why they want a confirmation from your landlord, I don't know. In that sense, it sounds like they are being a bit more rigorous than they used to be. Which makes it harder on expats.

In my experience government offices sometimes want someone to vouch for you, or to confirm the information you are providing. For instance, to prove that you live somewhere, they will ask for a copy of your landlord's Thai ID card and usually his tabian bahn (house registration book for where the landlord lives), both signed by the landlord. I guess this sort of certifies your claim that you live where you say you live (although I would think the rental lease would be positive proof of that). The copy of the Thai ID card and tabian bahn confirms the identity of your landlord. It sounds like they also want a brief note written by your landlord saying that you do live at the address you claim (all of which is already known from the rental lease). I understand that the tax office didn't request a copy of your landlord's tabian bahn in this case, but since you will have to bother your landlord to get a copy of his Thai ID you might also ask for a copy of his tabian bahn too.

I wouldn't worry about the "allowed to run a business at this address" thing, since it sounds like they just gave you that to illustrate the kind of note that they wish your landlord to write for you. I know that doesn't make a lot of sense, just trying to understand what they were after from your landlord. Normally, in my experience, it's enough to have copies of your landlord's Thai ID card and tabian bahn. Apparently, possessing these documents proves that the landlord knows what you're doing and confirms the information you are providing. It sounds like they are asking for an additional note from your landlord, which I imagine can just state that you are living at the address you provided.

And yes, now that you mention it, they were very interested in what I was doing in Thailand. Was I working here? Did I have any other income in Thailand? I provided the same answers you gave and they accepted that explanation. They didn't ask why I wanted a Thai tax id since they were the ones telling me I needed to get one.

The good news is that getting the Thai tax id is a one-time only process. Once you get it you've got it for life!

The way I look at these requests for what appear to be extra (even superfluous) documentation is that they are trying to cover their backsides rather than simply make your life more difficult. If someone were ever to question them as to why they issued you a tax id number they can point to all the documents they asked you to provide to justify their decision. That's the way I approach these things. Maybe it's not true, but believing it is helps me not to get too frustrated. You help them to help you, even if it doesn't even always make sense. Stay positive! Actually filling out the PND 90 once you have the tax id (and withholding statements from your banks) seems to go very smoothly.

[Bagsida]

The brother of my land lord (-lady) who translated this form and talked with them told me that since 2016 on Phuket many things regarding rented houses changed and the Tax Revenue Office is trying to get taxes from the Land Lords.

Sure the rental contract would proof all they want to be proofed, but if they ask me to confirm it in this short way, I should do what they want me to do

My Land Lord (-Lady) will provide (almost) everything I ask her for, but I don´t want that she get´s any trouble with that - we are like family

After I´ve got the TAX ID and claim the taxes I better will show them also the transfer slip of my funds from abroad, then everything should be cleared.

I still think positive

Edited February 11, 2016 by Bagsida

[skatewash]

The brother of my land lord (-lady) who translated this form and talked with them told me that since 2016 on Phuket many things regarding rented houses changed and the Tax Revenue Office is trying to get taxes from the Land Lords.

Sure the rental contract would proof all they want to be proofed, but if they ask me to confirm it in this short way, I should do what they want to do

My Land Lord (-Lady) provides everything I ask her for, but I don´t want that she get´s any trouble with that - we are like family

After I´ve got the TAX ID and claim the taxes I better will show them also the transfer slip of my funds from abroad, then everything should be cleared.

Actually, I wouldn't show them anything that they don't ask to see. Having documentation and evidence on your person is a good thing, but I wouldn't show them unbidden anything they don't ask to see. Sometimes showing more than you need to just raises more questions.

Like me you are probably retired and not working in Thailand, living off of savings (or maybe a pension) from your home country. They're interested in whether you have additional Thai income and if you don't it's kind of hard to prove a negative. What do you show to indicate that you are *not* doing something? Or don't have something (additional income)? If they accept your tax return which you will know because they will give you a receipt, then I would consider the matter of how you are living in Thailand to be addressed to their satisfaction. I wouldn't open up the subject again.

[Bagsida]

The brother of my land lord (-lady) who translated this form and talked with them told me that since 2016 on Phuket many things regarding rented houses changed and the Tax Revenue Office is trying to get taxes from the Land Lords.

Sure the rental contract would proof all they want to be proofed, but if they ask me to confirm it in this short way, I should do what they want to do

My Land Lord (-Lady) provides everything I ask her for, but I don´t want that she get´s any trouble with that - we are like family

After I´ve got the TAX ID and claim the taxes I better will show them also the transfer slip of my funds from abroad, then everything should be cleared.

Actually, I wouldn't show them anything that they don't ask to see. Having documentation and evidence on your person is a good thing, but I wouldn't show them unbidden anything they don't ask to see. Sometimes showing more than you need to just raises more questions.

Like me you are probably retired and not working in Thailand, living off of savings (or maybe a pension) from your home country. They're interested in whether you have additional Thai income and if you don't it's kind of hard to prove a negative. What do you show to indicate that you are *not* doing something? Or don't have something (additional income)? If they accept your tax return which you will know because they will give you a receipt, then I would consider the matter of how you are living in Thailand to be addressed to their satisfaction. I wouldn't open up the subject again.

You´re right - don´t wake up sleeping dogs - I only will bring the transfer slip with me without showing them - in case they would ask me to proof where the funds are comming from I could show them the slip immediatelly.