Does an 18 year old Thai need parental permission to leave Thailand

[SantiSuk]

My Thai wife and I (UK citizen) informally adopted my wife's younger cousin and we have lived together in Thailand (with our own natural daughter) for over 5 years. In UK immigration speak our informally adopted daughter is a "de-facto adopted child". We made tentative steps to legally adopt her either in Thailand or the UK in the early days but for various reasons did not proceed with it. She is now 18 years old.

We have previously travelled several times to the UK and Germany as a family with parental permission signed statements from both legal/natural parents; both of them (living apart) are very compliant when we can get to them. I know that the UK visa process does not require parental permission now that she is 18*.

So, we can arrive in the UK without parental permission, but can we leave Thailand without such permission?

The problem arises because her legal/natural mother is working in a rural part of China and their are reportedly severe practical mailing difficulties in getting permissions organised within my 6 weeks time frame

*In passing I will mention that the German visa process does appear to require them for anyone under 21 years old, although I might investigate pulling an EEA citizen defence on them if we decide to go there.

[SantiSuk]

Further thoughts:

Yes, I know we could consult a Thai lawyer and/or go to the amphur.

Yes I know we could wing it, since no one (airline or departing immigration) has ever challenged her leaving previously at Swampy. Perhaps they do not do so if they see a visa from a developed country - that would make sense since they could legitimately expect the visa application process to have already checked that out.

As usual I am looking for someone with practical experience or legal knowledge as a shortcut. I see from a recent poster that Amphurs and immigration can give conflicting advice on similar issues

Edited February 13, 2016 by SantiSuk

[Liquorice]

Some laws are not crystal clear, with many caveats, ifs and buts etc.

Being able to do everything an adult can do without legal restriction or parental consent is called the 'age of majority'.

In Thailand, that age is 20.

Smoking is 18 years.
Driving a car is 18 years.
Age of consent: Complex laws between 15 and 19, but unconditional once you reach 20.
Marriage: 15 with permission from a court. 17 with parental consent. 20 otherwise.

If your travelling as a group I seriously doubt you will be questioned at a Thai airport.

As long as she has the correct Visa to travel, the airlines won't question her age and in the UK the legal age is 18 anyway.

[SantiSuk]

Thanks for that Faz. Think I'll take a copy of the housebook, so I can demonstrate she has lived with us for 5 years. That combined with your comments makes it low risk enough for me.

All I need to do now is to find a TV member with experience of posting mail to rural parts of China - maybe I can find a way of getting that missing parental confirmation in time for a Schengen visa application, so she can make the side trip into Germany with us.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/894859-experience-of-mailing-documents-between-thailand-and-rural-china/?p=10420568

[SantiSuk]

Update:

The trip to the UK worked OK back in April - we did not obtain or take a maternal parental consent (did get paternal) and, as was the case for all previous trips neither airlines or Thai/UK border controls asked to see such confirmations. We did not go to Germany as the German embassy could not give us a timely appointment.

 

Bit of a problem for our next intended trip though. Wife wanted to have short family holiday in Korea next month (loves K-pop style). Luckily I did not book flights before remembering that our de facto adopted daughter's passport expires in February. Went to passport office to renew it yesterday.

 

No chance - not only is a signature required, but if natural mother is out of the country she has to go to a Thai embassy in that country and sign a statement agreeing to her daughter having a new passport. An 18 year old is still a child in Thai law for such purposes - it used to be 18 apparently.

 

Her natural mother (attractive mid to late thirties) is still (legally?) in rural eastern China as a masseuse for the forseeable. Can't see anyway in hell that she will want to pop her head up at a Beijing Thai Embassy 1,000 km away and reveal her immigration and employment status in China!

 

Shame for the 'child' - without a passport she's landlocked into Thailand for another 2 years unless we can persuade her mum to come back or guardianship/adoption can work off signed bits of paper only (unlikely). The rights of the child do not feature into the equation.

          
Pardon me if I was somewhat annoyed when the passport office official stated that the natural mother's say-so takes precedent because Thailand is concerned that people are taking girls like my daughter to Korea to sell sex. Yes - I had already seen ThaiV threads recording Korean displeasure at this, but was surprised that Thailand was so hypocritical as to express official displeasure towards sex-sale abroad, given what everyone knows about the domestic scene.

 

I suspect that the discounted rights of an 18 year old might get some attention from Thai 'netizens' if I could persuade my wife to set aside the facebook postings of food and cosmetic live videos and post something meaningful for once

 

So, officialdom craves the sign-off of a lady who gave away her illegimate daughter age 6 months and has shown no interest in her for 17 years, a lady who is now ...... well your guess is as good as mine on occupation. They prefer that over the say-so of those who have taken good care of her for 6 years plus - they agreed it was us who applied for her first passport 5 years ago and clocked the long-standing housebook entry and the several foreign family  trips recorded in her/our passports.

 

Don't flame me too intensely for not sorting out my daughters adoption - I did try hard for the first few years (as recounted somewhere on ThaiV), but then made the mistake of assuming it would all get irrelevant when she hit 18 anyway. I now know from reading more on here that we should have got my wife to take over legal guardianship back then in the absence of us being able to fully adopt.

 

Luckily I'm sanguine enough to know that laws have to be applied to the letter and can therefore sometimes have unintended consequences.

Edited September 22, 2016 by SantiSuk

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Off chance the the mother could visit a Thai Consulate?

 

 Consulate General in Chengdu

Address: 2nd Floor, C Building, Fengde International Square, No.6 Hangtian Lu, Chengdu, 610000
Tel: +86-28-66897861
      +86-28-66897862 (Visa Services)
Fax: +86-28-66897869

 

 Consulate Office in Nanning

Address: 1and 2F Oriental manhattan, No.52-1, Jinhu Road, Nanning
Postal Code: 530022
Tel: (+86)771 552 6945-47
Fax: (+86)771 552 6949
E-mail: [email protected]

 

 Consulate General in Guangzhou

Address: White Swan Hotel, Southern Street, Shamian Island
Postal Code: 510130
Tel: (+86)20 8188 6968
Fax: (+86)20 8187 9451, 8192 3076
Email: [email protected]
Consular Areas: Guangdong Province, Guangxi Province, Fujian Province, Hainan Province

 

 Consulate General in Kunming

Consul-general: Mr. Kosit Chatpaiboon
Address: 1/F, South Building, Kunming Hotel, No.145 Dong Feng Dong Lu, Kunming 650051
Tel: +86-871-3168916, 3149296
Fax: +86-871-3166891
Consular Areas: Yunnan Province, Guizhou Province, Sichuan Province, Hunan Province, and Chongqing

 

 Consulate General in Shanghai

Address: 15/F, Crystal Century Mansion, No. 567 Weihai Road
Tel: (+86)21 6288 3030
Fax: (+86)21 6288 9072
E-mail: [email protected]

 

 Consulate General in Xiamen

Consul-general: Mr. Wisanu Berananda
Address: Building No.3, City Hotel Xiamen, No. 16 Hu Yuan Lu, Xiamen 361003
Tel: +86-592-2027980, 2027982
Fax: +86-20-2027981
E-mail: [email protected]
Office Hours: 09:00-17:00, Monday-Friday 09:00-11:30, Monday-Friday (for visa and consular)

Consular Area: Fujian Province

 Consulate Office in Xian

Consul-general: Mr. Chainarong Keratiyutwong
Address: 4th Floor, Yu Lang International Building, No.77, Jie Fang Lu, Xian 710001
Consular Areas: Shaanxi Province, Gansu Province, Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region

[williewolf]

We have a situation similar to you where as our niece lives with us. May I ask do you have to obtain a permmision letter from the amphur every time you leave the country or is there a time limit on the letter?

Thank you

[SantiSuk]

^Thanks much. I'll look into it, though from memory* the form specifically said "Thai Embassy". Suspect it will still be mostly a "heads above parapet" issue for her .

 

Further down the line it may become a dilemna as to whether I "dob her in" if she does not come back in the next couple of months and we press for a signature to get adoption or guardianship, that is not forthcoming. There may be an alternative procedure if she refuses to make herself available for a necessary signature. That said, I'm not going to jump to that conclusion; she is actually a very pleasant lady, based on our one face-to-face contact a few years back, despite the impression I may give above. Reading between lines, she was a 19yo who got caught preggers to a devious little c***, based on my wife's offhand comments (and much more regular contact with 'uncle' since).  

 

*was a bit annoyed at the time and we came away without the form