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Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death


webfact

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I wish posters would give up trying to link the 3 deaths of the Frenchman, the young woman and Luke Miller to the deaths of Hannah and David.

The Frenchman left a suicide note in French which the family were satisfied with, presumably they recognized his style of writing as well as his handwriting. Or was it written by the mafia who are all fluent in French no doubt?

The woman, Christine, was taking far too many drugs for her own good, all tragically documented on her facebook page prior to her death.

Luke Miller, high risk antics again, yolo! Sometimes it seems to me folks in the West, especially in the UK with its nanny state, seem to have forgotten life is fragile, sometimes there is no safety net if you do something stupid.

And coming to the Samui Archipelago is the " in" thing to do for these youngsters who can't afford Ibiza, I guess. Then they indulge in 2-3 week alcohol binge fests, assorted legal and illegal drugs, shroom shakes, bucket gawd knows what, standing on spindly rails with long drops under them and other assorted foolery.

It really is a wonder 2 or 3 don't end up dead a week during high season.

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None of us can be sure who did it, what most of us agree on though is that this case didn't receive the investigation it deserved, many elements were ignored or even lost, many threats were made, just to make sure we don't deviate from just one unbelieviable scenario.

If you can't see that this case stinks, then we can't do anything else that just rub it in your nose, mybe the smell will go through whatever prevents it to..

The victims of this attocious crime deserve justice, and right now they aren't geting it.

And they never will. Too many are assigning western morals to a developing SE Asian nation. It's just not important, class and privilege are the only rule.

In my theory Win, ( or Zaw ) committed rape, he will pay because he's a poor migrant laborer. Nom Sod, and whoever else may have raped- and killed, do not pay, they are wealthy.

So unless you want to advocate a boycott, and leave the country, stop supporting it in any way- there's just nothing anyone can do.

.

Even if by some miracle the B-s are acquitted, no one will go looking for anyone else. The case is over

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rumour, report, mutterings, call it what you like, but when someone reports that a murder victim had an altercation with someone in the last place they were see alive then that is something the police would follow up thoroughly, cctv would be obtained and people interviewed, in actual fact even without the report of an altercation the AC bar should still have been thoroughly investigated and cctv footage seized, Mon should never have been allowed to withhold what would normally be regarded as crucial evidence in a murder inquiry, all bars and entertainment venues were by law forced to install cctv, Mon had no right to deny access - just another crooked twist in this so called murder investigation that they say they carried out

Agree, and a very good post, one of the few I've seen from the " Cover-up" camp.

Mind boggles as to your mission on this thread so late in the day. To call posters wanting justice for Hannah and David the 'cover up camp' is truly pathetic. Get a life.

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None of us can be sure who did it, what most of us agree on though is that this case didn't receive the investigation it deserved, many elements were ignored or even lost, many threats were made, just to make sure we don't deviate from just one unbelieviable scenario.

If you can't see that this case stinks, then we can't do anything else that just rub it in your nose, mybe the smell will go through whatever prevents it to..

The victims of this attocious crime deserve justice, and right now they aren't geting it.

And they never will. Too many are assigning western morals to a developing SE Asian nation. It's just not important, class and privilege are the only rule.

In my theory Win, ( or Zaw ) committed rape, he will pay because he's a poor migrant laborer. Nom Sod, and whoever else may have raped- and killed, do not pay, they are wealthy.

So unless you want to advocate a boycott, and leave the country, stop supporting it in any way- there's just nothing anyone can do.

.

Even if by some miracle the B-s are acquitted, no one will go looking for anyone else. The case is over

The case is over

Why are you on here then? Why keep posting? Time to move on if you believe that.

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And do you have a link for this? Here's mine; http://phuketwan.com/tourism/sudden-death-british-woman-thailands-koh-tao-remains-mystery-21759/ Mother Margaret Annesley said her daughter died from 'natural causes'. Posting on Facebook, she wrote: ''We have lost our beautiful daughter Chrissie in Thailand of natural causes. We are totally devastated. We love you so much darling, rest in peace. We will bring you home soon xxxxxxxxxx Mum and Dad.''

Of course I have a link, thats how I know and could pass on the information rather than speculate and tell lies like you. Up to you to gain access to it however as its the daily mail that I presume you cant get there. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3293703/Parents-backpacker-died-track-man-alive.html

So please read what you think into the story and new witness and I await your new speculation and slant on it rather than sticking to the facts in the article

You're right I cannot access it so please c/p the portion you want me to look at.

I'm not telling lies, I posted a link where I got that info.

Edited by Moonsterk
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None of us can be sure who did it, what most of us agree on though is that this case didn't receive the investigation it deserved, many elements were ignored or even lost, many threats were made, just to make sure we don't deviate from just one unbelieviable scenario.

If you can't see that this case stinks, then we can't do anything else that just rub it in your nose, mybe the smell will go through whatever prevents it to..

The victims of this attocious crime deserve justice, and right now they aren't geting it.

And they never will. Too many are assigning western morals to a developing SE Asian nation. It's just not important, class and privilege are the only rule.

In my theory Win, ( or Zaw ) committed rape, he will pay because he's a poor migrant laborer. Nom Sod, and whoever else may have raped- and killed, do not pay, they are wealthy.

So unless you want to advocate a boycott, and leave the country, stop supporting it in any way- there's just nothing anyone can do.

.

Even if by some miracle the B-s are acquitted, no one will go looking for anyone else. The case is over

The case is over

Why are you on here then? Why keep posting? Time to move on if you believe that.

I enjoy the debate.

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The case is over

Why are you on here then? Why keep posting? Time to move on if you believe that.

That's what gets me catsanddogs. Those of us who are posting in support of the B2 are doing so because we believe this isn't over. Yet the others can't stay away, often turning up mob-handed and flooding the thread, as they did yesterday. You'd think they'd just move on and leave us "conspiracy theorists" to chatter amongst ourselves. The fact that they are so concerned (even when they feign amusement) confirms that we are on the right track.

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Seems the only people talking conspiracies is you and moonsterk, I'm just posting what was said by 3 separate people one of which also reported it on Sky News

The conspiracy (allegedly) is stitching up Win and Zaw and the entire thread has been based on discussing it.

Edited by Moonsterk
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Several troll posts and replies have been removed from this thread.

Please be advised that reference to "shills" or "noids" or any other derogatory terms are not permitted on the Forum.

Violation of this may result in losing your posting rights on the Forum.

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JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:11, said:
IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:58, said:
JLCrab, on 25 Feb 2016 - 13:50, said:JLCrab, on 25 Feb 2016 - 13:50, said:

Mr. Samuels wrote on 9 JULY 2015 that his translator had been warned off by the Mafia and on 10 JULY 2015 he was submitting dispatches from the Samui Courtroom on his Twitter account.

He is also recorded on video outside the courtroom saying that his translator had been warned off. He described those threatening his female translator as "mafia".

So on 9 JULY 2015 he wrote and said on video that his translation had been scared off by mafia types and on July 10 he was able to submit his own Twitter dispatches from the courtroom so he apparently found another translator.

I have no idea whether he found another translator or not but that does not alter the fact that one of his translators was warned off.

Edited by frank83628
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IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:49, said:IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:49, said:IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:49, said:
JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:

Yes -- even to Chiang Rai if they really cared which they seem to not. So far nobody connected to the crime has been knocked off but, if the B2 were sitting on anything which would decisively work against the mafia-types interests, they most likely would be tops on the knock-off list.

Allegedly two people connected to the crime have been knocked off, and possibly a third. This information comes from a Koh Tao resident.

Just to be clear here, I was NOT referring to the deaths of western tourists on Koh Tao since the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. I was referring to Asian people (two men and one woman) who were connected to the investigation into the murders of H&D. As I said, this info comes from a KT resident. I don't know if it's true or not as I was not there myself to witness it, which is why I said allegedly.

Edited by IslandLover
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DM07, on 26 Feb 2016 - 05:32, said:
IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 04:56, said:
greenchair, on 26 Feb 2016 - 04:29, said:greenchair, on 26 Feb 2016 - 04:29, said:

Rumour is that Muang Muang the dj is the one having the argument. He left the island immediately on the morning of the murders. Since it is a rumour, it is certainly possible, that the argument was between Muang Muang and david. The rumour was that someone was getting fresh with hannah and david stepped in. Although the rumour has 3 branches.

1.Muang Muang dj had an argument and david stepped in to help.

2.mon or nomsod were getting fresh with hannah and david stepped in.

3.Muang Muang motorbike had argument with nomsod /mon and david stepped in.

4.Muang Muang dj got fresh with hannah and david stepped in.

Try taking that to court lol.

I don't know why the noids think this in the b2 favour, once again, if even 1 of them is true, it shows a connection between the burmese and david.

Just like the noids think pornthip got a point because she showed an unknown man, but totally ignore that she found a 25 % match to Wei Phyo.

It all comes down to perspective I guess.

Could somebody versed in the science of DNA please explain to greenchair what a 25 percent DNA match actually means?

Again?

There was a poster on the Koh Tao threads who could explain the what the 25 percent DNA match actually means in layman's terms for those who misinterpret its meaning. I can't remember his/her user name and he/she has not posted for a while unfortunately.

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bannork, on 26 Feb 2016 - 15:18, said:bannork, on 26 Feb 2016 - 15:18, said:bannork, on 26 Feb 2016 - 15:18, said:

Details,island lover, is one of those deaths the roti seller who fingered the Burmese 2?

Yes, but not the roti seller, the other one. However as far as I am concerned he died from natural causes unless there is evidence to the contrary, which is why I said "possibly" in my original post. The other two were murdered and found in bin bags, so I've been told. Sorry, but I do not wish to say any more than that for obvious reasons.

Edited by IslandLover
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DiscoDan, on 26 Feb 2016 - 06:15, said:
jayjay78, on 26 Feb 2016 - 05:10, said:
Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 03:05, said:

Even if she was warned off, OK for the sake of argument I'll accept it, but then so what? What's it prove? Who warned her off, do we know, does he know, does she know? Does anyone know it's even true? Maybe her kid was sick.....

JLCrab points out the reporter was able to find a new translator that day, so it wasn't really a death defying act to translate.

And example # ( losing count) of relying on what others extrapolate from rumours and then present as facts. I'll call it Argument by Regurgitative Process. ( ARP) and it is the single most used method on this and the Luke Miller death thread to put forth a conspiracy theory.

Maybe her kid was sick......

Perhaps a virus at school then, must have been a few kids off that day.

Our Thai translator at backpacker murder trial says she's been 'warned off' by 'the Mafia'. Elements here clearly fear a fair trial.#kohtao

A contact of mine on Samui tells me no translators are willing to cover #KohTao trial. All have been scared off

Many journalists contacted me today looking 4 translators to cover Koh Tao trial 2mrw as no one willing to do so. Any ideas let me know...

Anyone want to post a list of translators available on Samui ?

Lucky for activists there friend Sarah Yeun was not threatened and seems she had no trouble sourcing a translator while reporting,

You would of thought she would of been more of a target, If we want to talk conspiracies, maybe she got someone to make the mafia threat, she lives in Samui so would of been possible to pay someone to do it, even though Jonathan left the Samui Sarah Kept reporting & one of the media outlets she was reporting for was Sky news (Jonathan's job) so this could have been a form of media control by activists and there cohorts, making sure only there version of events in the courthouse was released to the media.

And still zero evidence of this Mafia man no photo, no description, no details of car bike he was driving,

Sarah Yuen understands and speaks Thai. Why would she have need of a translator?

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Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 05:05, said:Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 05:05, said:
fab99, on 26 Feb 2016 - 04:29, said:fab99, on 26 Feb 2016 - 04:29, said:
Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 03:05, said:Moonsterk, on 26 Feb 2016 - 03:05, said:

Even if she was warned off, OK for the sake of argument I'll accept it, but then so what? What's it prove? Who warned her off, do we know, does he know, does she know? Does anyone know it's even true? Maybe her kid was sick.....

JLCrab points out the reporter was able to find a new translator that day, so it wasn't really a death defying act to translate.

And example # ( losing count) of relying on what others extrapolate from rumours and then present as facts. I'll call it Argument by Regurgitative Process. ( ARP) and it is the single most used method on this and the Luke Miller death thread to put forth a conspiracy theory.

This single event doesn't prove anything, you can raise concerns about any single fact, BUT seen as a whole, the sum of discrepencies and manipulation is quite telling.

There have been multiple reports (you might qualitfy them as hearsay if you want) of threats and manipulations of the truth (may I remind that even the RTP tried to pay a taxi driver to testify as a false witness and beat him when he refused?).

If you see this particular event as irrelevant, let's discuss Hannah's sister threats, nobody reacted to what was written before about it, trying to sweep it under the carpet I guess.

Some tried to say she is a liar and has an alternate motive or even that she received threats from the conspiracy theorist (how similar to what you say about this translator event), but usually the simplest answer is the right one : she received threats and what she cares about the most is that her sister receives the justice she deserves... and she very obviously hasn't so far, that is why we don't want this case to be forgotten.

This was about the translator, not Laura, but I'll agree with you, Laura was afraid, and rightfully so.

I think a lot of Thais, not just Koh Tao biggies, might make threats to anyone who makes international news dissing Thailand.

Here's my outrageous theory # 1 , based on " rumours"

I think there was a gang-bang planned, and one of the B-2 was involved in that. He may have even sauntered off after his turn so wasn't around for the bludgeoning. Maybe went to get his pals. The event started elsewhere, in a nearby room, and for reasons we can only guess at, moved onto the beach ( CAVEAT this following is a ARP in progress...) Someone shot Witheridge, maybe accidentally, with a registered gun, a bullet from which would have been traceable, just under the right side of her jaw ( look at the pics, clearly a gunshot wound visible,) and the bullet needed to be dug out, hence the " cover-up" of the bludgeoning.

So, Zaw ( or Win? I get them mixed up) was involved, and deserves his sentence of rape. Of course if you are involved in a crime that results in death, you get charged for that, too.

It looks like you've taken every theory out there and put it all together in one post. Well done! - not sad.png

NB if Hannah had been shot, it would have been revealed during the UK autopsy, and it wasn't, so we can put that theory to bed.

Edited by IslandLover
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snip

Just like the noids think pornthip got a point because she showed an unknown man, but totally ignore that she found a 25 % match to Wei Phyo.

It all comes down to perspective I guess.

If the DNA sample taken by Ms Pormthip from the hoe was that of Wei Phyo, it would be a 100% match. And as humans share 50% of DNA with a banana, any more talk of a '25% match' is totally superfluous and irrelevant.

I really don't know why this is repeated time and time again - it's a nonsense statistic, especially as any man off the street would have a similar match (if not involved).

You have no idea what you are talking about, forensic DNA profiling uses parts of the genome that are unique to humans, bananas have nothing to do with it.

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snip

Just like the noids think pornthip got a point because she showed an unknown man, but totally ignore that she found a 25 % match to Wei Phyo.

It all comes down to perspective I guess.

If the DNA sample taken by Ms Pormthip from the hoe was that of Wei Phyo, it would be a 100% match. And as humans share 50% of DNA with a banana, any more talk of a '25% match' is totally superfluous and irrelevant.

I really don't know why this is repeated time and time again - it's a nonsense statistic, especially as any man off the street would have a similar match (if not involved).

You have no idea what you are talking about, forensic DNA profiling uses parts of the genome that are unique to humans, bananas have nothing to do with it.

The point still is that a 25% match means almost nothing and seriously can't be used against the B2.

I think (but I admit I am absolutely not an expert) there is a good chance you or me would have a similar match (and I haven't and will never set a foot on Koh Tao, so I am not s suspect...).

In DNA analysis the match needs to be very close to 100% (and a very clear and detailed procedure followed to the letter...) to be satisfying.

Edited by fab99
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snip

Just like the noids think pornthip got a point because she showed an unknown man, but totally ignore that she found a 25 % match to Wei Phyo.

It all comes down to perspective I guess.

If the DNA sample taken by Ms Pormthip from the hoe was that of Wei Phyo, it would be a 100% match. And as humans share 50% of DNA with a banana, any more talk of a '25% match' is totally superfluous and irrelevant.

I really don't know why this is repeated time and time again - it's a nonsense statistic, especially as any man off the street would have a similar match (if not involved).

You have no idea what you are talking about, forensic DNA profiling uses parts of the genome that are unique to humans, bananas have nothing to do with it.

The point still is that a 25% match means almost nothing and seriously can't be used against the B2.

I think (but I admit I am absolutely not an expert) there is a good chance you or me would have a similar match (and I haven't and will never set a foot on Koh Tao, so I am not s suspect...).

In DNA analysis the match needs to be very close to 100% (and a very clear and detailed procedure followed to the letter...) to be satisfying.

There are actually some people on this thread who believe a 25% match means there is a 1 in 4 chance of it being them.

Granted some really are that dim but there are others that know this is not correct but because it suits their agenda they keep mentioning it.

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With regard the method by which David's iphone was identified, this is what the court report stated:

"Pol. Col. Krisna Pattanacharoen verified the IMEI number of the exhibited mobile phone via coordination with officers at the British Embassy of Thailand, considering together with the testimony of Mr. Christopher Alan Ware, a friend of the First Deceased, and was able to identify that the mobile phone did in fact belong to the First Deceased, according to the Record of Testimony, the Evidence Document marked as Jor. 55."

But media reports from the time of Pol Col Pattanacharoen's testimony refer to a sim card being identified:

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2015/08/28/thai-murders-trial-confusion-over-cctv-footage/

"Fellow Thai police Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen also confirmed that Mr Miller’s phone had been found discarded near the lodgings of the defendants, and that the UK’s National Crime Agency had identified the SIM card as belonging to the Islander."

http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16198-thai-police-confirm-british-cooperation-in-koh-tao-case.html

"Royal Thai Police Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen confirmed to the Koh Samui court that a phone owned by one of the deceased, David Miller, 24, had been found discarded near the lodgings of the defendants.

The UK National Crime Agency later identified the SIM card as being Mr Miller’s, he said."

Another report from the time in the Great Yarmouth Mercury appears to be syndicated from the same source as the Jersey Evening Post one.

Did Pol Col Kissana/Krisna take the stand more than once, confirming the sim card on one testimony and the IMEI on another? Is the sim card ID a mistake? Or is the IMEI ID a mistake?

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There are actually some people on this thread who believe a 25% match means there is a 1 in 4 chance of it being them.

Granted some really are that dim but there are others that know this is not correct but because it suits their agenda they keep mentioning it.

There is one poster in particular, who appears to have a very good understanding of DNA forensics, who has never corrected anybody on the 25% match fallacy. This particular poster is very quick to correct any perceived mistakes by B2 supporters. In fact, he has very recently corrected a mistake by another poster about human DNA match to fruit, whilst completely ignoring the main point of the discussion about said 25% match fallacy. Distinct absence of intellectual honesty IMHO rolleyes.gif .

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There was a poster on the Koh Tao threads who could explain the what the 25 percent DNA match actually means in layman's terms for those who misinterpret its meaning. I can't remember his/her user name and he/she has not posted for a while unfortunately.

Partington.

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IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:49, said:IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:49, said:IslandLover, on 26 Feb 2016 - 02:49, said:
JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:JLCrab, on 26 Feb 2016 - 01:11, said:

Yes -- even to Chiang Rai if they really cared which they seem to not. So far nobody connected to the crime has been knocked off but, if the B2 were sitting on anything which would decisively work against the mafia-types interests, they most likely would be tops on the knock-off list.

Allegedly two people connected to the crime have been knocked off, and possibly a third. This information comes from a Koh Tao resident.

Just to be clear here, I was NOT referring to the deaths of western tourists on Koh Tao since the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller. I was referring to Asian people (two men and one woman) who were connected to the investigation into the murders of H&D. As I said, this info comes from a KT resident. I don't know if it's true or not as I was not there myself to witness it, which is why I said allegedly.

Well next time maybe let the KT resident post it themselves and let them vouch as to the truth of the statement.

While I'm at it, I said a while back that nobody had publicly stated that they saw any confrontation between the late Ms. Witheridge and others that evening and someone came forward and said "Well what about the rumour that ...?"

Note that I said publicly. Someone also said regarding rumors in general "Where there is smoke, there is fire" and I remember the old Boy Scout chant: Heap big smoke -- no fire.

Edited by JLCrab
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There was a poster on the Koh Tao threads who could explain the what the 25 percent DNA match actually means in layman's terms for those who misinterpret its meaning. I can't remember his/her user name and he/she has not posted for a while unfortunately.

Partington.

found this post for Greenchair to argue with .

Partington wrote jan 2016

This information is wrong as written, and so fairly meaningless.

STR vWA means "the short tandem repeat at the vWA locus."

"vWA" IS ONE single locus (a place in the genome that can be of different lengths in different people.) Each single locus is present ONCE on each of a pair of chromosomes and therefore each person can only have TWO values for the vWA locus (e.g. 11,17 ) because the vWA locus is present only twice in any one person, NOT sixteen times-this is nonsense. There can't be sixteen matches at vWA therefore.

Similarly D2S1338 is a SINGLE locus, that is a site present only once on each of a pair of chromosomes, it therefore can only have two numerical values in a single person (one for the length of the site on each chromosome e.g. 21, 23). It is therefore impossible for there to be sixteen matches.

At vWA and D2S1388 there would only be four figures for each suspect. A full DNA profile uses 10 different loci (plural of locus) in the UK, and 13 different loci in the US. Thus a high probability identification (less than one in a billion of being a chance match, i.e. a definitive identification) needs two numbers at each of 10 or 13 loci, that is a list of 20 or 26 different numbers, each of which must be identical in the suspect and the victim sample.

If this rather garbled account above is trying to say that the DNA samples from the victim match the suspects at four places (two numbers at vWA and two numbers at D2S1388) then the probability that this could happen by chance would be so high that it would be completely unacceptable in any court anywhere as identification.

All DNA reports (but obviously not the one submitted to the court , since apparently this was non-existent) give a calculated probability that the results obtained could be a chance match. When this probability is one in 50 million to several billion (as they always are in perfect matches of 20 or 26 number profiles from 10 or 13 loci) then the identification can be absolutely relied on. If only two loci and four numbers were used the probability of a chance match would be so high the result would be meaningless. A one in a 100 chance of getting the match would simply not identify anybody.

In any case it's become clear from the time taken to do the "analysis" (less than 24 hours), and the lack of any laboratory account of what was done, that this DNA evidence is not true. For technical reasons sperm DNA must be isolated from the overwhelming background of victim DNA by chemical treatment. This treatment separates female from male DNA but it takes at least overnight to process, and then the actual DNA profile needs to be done. There was not enough time between collection and report of the "match" for this to really have been carried out.

EDIT: just as a follow up to what some have written above: it is of course quite feasible in a table that consists of 16 or so pairs of numbers to just type in whatever numbers you want. If the records of how the numbers were obtained are not made available for examination ( why would they not be? graphs from the sequencing machines are stored as digital files indefinitely and can be printed out at will to show the actual peaks giving the numbers listed in the table) there is no way to prove that the numbers weren't just written in as desired and based on nothing.

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