Chinese Holiday Drivers

[ardokano]

LHD, RHD is important?

I guess NO!!!! More important HOW drive.

No light. 60-80 on speed line when avaible 90-120. Turn (change line) with out signal or even signal on when start turn.

Cuting.

Its all be in Thailand road. And its from all: chines, farang and ofcouse thai people.

So what about we talking?

Just few day comback from Pattay. Near 10 time have hard cuting(only in sity maybe 40 km drive and few hour on 5 day inclusive trip to Bangkok) and half its be FARANG.

About turn with out signal i even not talking. Or when can go turn left on red licth many time some " smart" guy stay in left line when his need go true. And almast in Pattay its be farang on LHD car.

So what about talking?

[Tomtomtom69]

No it isn't.

For private vehicles:

There is an agreement with Laos.

There are semi-formal agreements with Malaysia and Singapore.

There are local agreements with Cambodia and Myanmar, but officially only for local traffic.

For trucks:

There is a formal agreement with Cambodia, on a quota basis.

There is a formal agreement with Vietnam, on a quota basis.

There is a formal agreement with Malaysia and Singapore for perishable goods but with a quota on the amount of tons of produce that can be transported.

For buses:

There is a formal agreement with Cambodia, on a quota basis.

There is a semi-formal agreement with Malaysia but only for buses travelling within the border regions. Malaysian buses can now officially no longer drive further than Hat Yai or Songkhla province.

There is NO agreement with China.

Thailand is under no obligation to allow the entry of Chinese or other third country private vehicles since China for example doesn't allow it either.

Of course this doesn't mean that Thailand (or even China) want to stop the entry of foreign registered vehicles altogether, rather, the new proposed restrictions will merely cut down on the number of foreign registered vehicles driving in Thailand (presumably non-ASEAN foreign) as it becomes more complicated to meet all the requirements.

Sorry I forgot to add that Thailand and Laos obviously also have an agreement for commercial vehicles i.e. trucks and buses. Laos is also the only country with which Thailand has concluded an agreement for all vehicle types WITHOUT a quota. Therefore, unlimited numbers of Thai trucks and buses can enter Laos and vice versa. In practice, most buses crossing the border operate on set routes and with alternate day Thai/Lao registrations, while the trucking industry heavily favours Thai trucks, which are seen all over Laos, whereas Lao registered LHD trucks never drive all the way to Bangkok. Whether or not Thai trucking operators or the Thai logistics industry blocks them/they switch trailers/their fleet is too small I don't know, but 100% of all trucks seen in Bangkok and other points a certain distance from the border are Thai registered. Lao registered trucks generally only travel within Isarn, usually not even beyond Udon Thani or Kalasin if coming across the second friendship bridge.

I've owned 2 LHD vehicles in UK and spent years driving borth LHD and RHD on both sides of the road (in the appropriate country. I f you live in UK driving on ther right around Europe is second nature - there are no significant problems.

as thfor the reasons given about Chinese drivers - pure poppy-cock.

The reasons why Chinese drivers (vehicles actually) should NOT be allowed in my opinion has little to do merely with the side of the car their steering wheel is located on.

The lack of an agreement between Thailand and China should be enough to keep them out. They are not used to the Thai driving style and their large numbers, especially during holiday periods can cause significant traffic congestion. Lack of insurance, accidents etc. are further problems.

I'm glad that the Thai Land Transport Department along with customs and other stakeholders is finally addressing this issue and will make it more difficult for them to enter starting in the near future. It's about time. Chinese don't allow foreign registered vehicles in either - they have been given a free pass to enter Thailand for too long. This is simply not right - either you have a bilateral agreement where both sides are given the same or similar concessions or you have no agreement at all.

ASEAN registered vehicles on the other hand, have good reasons for coming to Thailand as neighboring states. Thailand should expedite formal agreements on private motor vehicles with Myanmar and Cambodia ASAP. Vietnam, perhaps, although less important.

China? Who cares. They are not part of ASEAN/AEC and have no plans on making it easier for AEC vehicles to cross into their territory so they should be kept out of the AEC, with Chinese traffic in border regions of neighboring Laos excepted.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Police are completely ineffective - they don't seem to understand anything about road safety and certainlty can't be relied on to give an accurate, scientific appraisal of what is going on.....of course there are more Chinese involved in incidents - especially in the North - a few years back there weren't any Chinese cars at all.

What is happening is an influx of FOREIGN drivers and the authorities are reacting to it in a particularly ignorant way.

inUk or anywhere in Europe you will notice not just foreign cars but a huge amount of foreign vehicles on ALL roads......Eastern Europe, and the West........no-one raises an eyebrow - it's called TRADE.

to suggest that Chinese cars don't bring in money just shows the paucity of thinking by the authorities.

In the end they had better just get used to it - if ASEAN is going to work one should expect to see heavy goods vehicles from ALL ASEAN countries and of course3 China as China is a major trading partner.

What people fail to realise about China is that the west part of that huge country is effectively land-locked - they NEED to have access to the roads of Laos,Thailand and Burma not just for trade in those countries but also for access to the potential deep-water ports in burma....why do you think they keep building all these roads? Altruism is certainly not a big part of Chinese foreign policy.

foreign vehicles - get used to them and stop being such moaning minnies.

Wrong dude - your thinking goes against the predominant way of thinking in this part of the world.

There is NO freedom of movement for vehicles in Asia; it is NOTHING like Europe. RHD vs. LHD has little do with it either.

While I know China well and I think it's a nice country and everything, what you have failed to address is that China itself is perhaps the MOST closed to foreign vehicles of all Asian countries. If you think they deserve to get in to Thailand/Myanmar etc. (which does NOT let them in BTW) then we too should be allowed free access to China.

You mentioned trade. Well hahaha...don't you realize that foreign registered private vehicles aren't involved in trade? Nor would they be allowed to, given that would be working illegally without a work permit.

Chinese commercial vehicles have never been allowed to enter Thailand.

Nobody is stopping Chinese drivers from picking up a rental car and driving here in Thailand. What they ARE trying to stop (or slow down the flow of) is Chinese registered cars and rightly they SHOULD be. Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand, period. UNLESS they are forced to spend a considerable amount of money to be allowed the privilege of entering, with a Thai tour guide in tow - that WOULD bring in considerable amounts of money and that is what China imposes on Thais and other foreigners bringing in their own cars to China (exceptions apply for Lao registered cars travelling within about 200km from the border and presumably Russian ones coming from Russia driving close to their common border).

There is not enough road space for them all either; Thailand has major traffic congestion problems, especially during holiday periods. Consider that even without the Chinese vehicles, even Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai face VERY heavy traffic during Songkran and just after Christmas/New Year. It can take an hour to pass through Chiang Rai even, if travelling from the south towards Mae Sai.

The new rules that Thailand is imposing will slow down the flow of Chinese cars into Thailand. It remains to be seen if they will be enough of a deterrent though - however, a very limited number of Chinese cars wouldn't be a problem. It's the LARGE numbers that we shouldn't be seeing.

[Tomtomtom69]

"concerns the large numbers of Chinese vehicles are causing all sorts of problems for Thai drivers and road users. Accidents are common'

I've heard this before....but I haven't read a single report in the EL media that actually backs this up.

I'm sure the general standard of driving in China is pretty poor, but one would expect that those who venture forth into lands unknown might actually be in the better driver categories.

I've seen a lot of Chinese vehicles in my travels around Laos ... Much more than Thailand...

I definitely get the impression that the accusations are not actually based on a scientific analysis so much as confirmation bias.

I have seen quite a lot more 'blue plates' in Pattaya this year so the Chinese are getting more adventurous. Last year, just before CNY, Mrs NL and I were tootling around Chiang Mai/Rai and there was plenty of mini-convoys of 'blue plates' that weren't driving cautiously and more than a few had conspicuous dings and dents. I worked in China and held a Chinese HGV license for about 8 years, driving Kenworth 5th-wheel oilfield beds regularly. These buggers do not fear death and in that regard are comparable to Thai minibus drivers, including the one that threw a water bottle at me around 2 AM while doing around 100 kph on the Mitraparp north of Korat about 3 nights ago (all because I didn't pull over when he raced up my arse flashing his lights because the left lane was full of lorries).

A Thai minibus driver threw a water bottle at you? Weird...

I've been in the same situation as you many times (though perhaps not THAT many as I tend to drive a little faster than "average") with drivers behind me flashing their lights, but NEVER would anyone react that way in Thailand, in my experience.

[cumgranosalum]

The Police are completely ineffective - they don't seem to understand anything about road safety and certainlty can't be relied on to give an accurate, scientific appraisal of what is going on.....of course there are more Chinese involved in incidents - especially in the North - a few years back there weren't any Chinese cars at all.

What is happening is an influx of FOREIGN drivers and the authorities are reacting to it in a particularly ignorant way.

inUk or anywhere in Europe you will notice not just foreign cars but a huge amount of foreign vehicles on ALL roads......Eastern Europe, and the West........no-one raises an eyebrow - it's called TRADE.

to suggest that Chinese cars don't bring in money just shows the paucity of thinking by the authorities.

In the end they had better just get used to it - if ASEAN is going to work one should expect to see heavy goods vehicles from ALL ASEAN countries and of course3 China as China is a major trading partner.

What people fail to realise about China is that the west part of that huge country is effectively land-locked - they NEED to have access to the roads of Laos,Thailand and Burma not just for trade in those countries but also for access to the potential deep-water ports in burma....why do you think they keep building all these roads? Altruism is certainly not a big part of Chinese foreign policy.

foreign vehicles - get used to them and stop being such moaning minnies.

Wrong dude - your thinking goes against the predominant way of thinking in this part of the world.

There is NO freedom of movement for vehicles in Asia; it is NOTHING like Europe. RHD vs. LHD has little do with it either.

While I know China well and I think it's a nice country and everything, what you have failed to address is that China itself is perhaps the MOST closed to foreign vehicles of all Asian countries. If you think they deserve to get in to Thailand/Myanmar etc. (which does NOT let them in BTW) then we too should be allowed free access to China.

You mentioned trade. Well hahaha...don't you realize that foreign registered private vehicles aren't involved in trade? Nor would they be allowed to, given that would be working illegally without a work permit.

Chinese commercial vehicles have never been allowed to enter Thailand.

Nobody is stopping Chinese drivers from picking up a rental car and driving here in Thailand. What they ARE trying to stop (or slow down the flow of) is Chinese registered cars and rightly they SHOULD be. Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand, period. UNLESS they are forced to spend a considerable amount of money to be allowed the privilege of entering, with a Thai tour guide in tow - that WOULD bring in considerable amounts of money and that is what China imposes on Thais and other foreigners bringing in their own cars to China (exceptions apply for Lao registered cars travelling within about 200km from the border and presumably Russian ones coming from Russia driving close to their common border).

There is not enough road space for them all either; Thailand has major traffic congestion problems, especially during holiday periods. Consider that even without the Chinese vehicles, even Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai face VERY heavy traffic during Songkran and just after Christmas/New Year. It can take an hour to pass through Chiang Rai even, if travelling from the south towards Mae Sai.

The new rules that Thailand is imposing will slow down the flow of Chinese cars into Thailand. It remains to be seen if they will be enough of a deterrent though - however, a very limited number of Chinese cars wouldn't be a problem. It's the LARGE numbers that we shouldn't be seeing.

" Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand" - no accounting for some people's thought processes!

[Tomtomtom69]

Good read I think, bit of subject but seeing as it has been mentioned.

No matter how many times you go to a country like England or Japan, it’s still a little shock to get off a plane and see people driving on the left side of the road. That is, if you’re from the roughly 75 percent of countries that drive on the right side of the road. Wrong in this case is relative, depending on where you’re from.

There are a lot of differences in how individual countries do things, of course. The metric system might be the biggest—the United States is largely on its own in measuring with feet and inches. Currencies and exchange rates are certainly country-specific as well, not to mention languages and customs. But all of those things go back hundreds of years. Automobiles arrived in the 20th century. Why couldn’t the world standardize one system for driving?

It’s harder than you might think. Despite the modern invention of the car, the side of the road on which we drive has a centuries-old history. The fact that most people are right-handed is the biggest factor contributing to which side of the road people initially chose. Ancient Romans drove chariots with the reins in their dominant right hands to allow them to whip a horse with their left. That way there was little risk of accidentally whipping a passing chariot. But if a warrior needed to do battle from a horse, he could attack a passing opponent on the right with his stronger hand.

For centuries, driving on a certain side of the road was mostly just a custom. There weren’t that many travelers and roads weren’t paved or marked to direct traffic, so it didn’t matter too much. But as more people started driving, some uniformity was needed. One of the biggest influencers of driving direction was Henry Ford, who designed his Model T with the driver on the left. That decision meant cars would have to drive on the road’s right, so that passengers in both the front and back seat could exit the car onto the curb.

Many countries eventually followed. Canada, Italy, and Spain changed to right-side driving in the 1920s. Most of Eastern Europe changed in the ’30s. Scandinavia waited until the 1960s, but its countries eventually changed to the right, too. Things got interesting in colonial countries, especially in Africa. France had long been a right-side country and Britain a left-side country, so their colonies usually followed suit. But when they became independent, many sought to normalize with their neighbors to make things easier. Today, most African countries drive on the right.

Driving on the left means sitting on the right. Photo by Spencer Millsap / NGM Staff

So why do close to 50 countries still drive on the left? The short answer might be stubbornness, which—we should be fair here—is part of the same reason the U.S. still sticks to measuring in inches and feet. But the more nuanced reason is momentum. Cities like London were designed to accommodate left handed driving, so switching would be no simple tweak. Changing the rules of the road is a very complex and expensive thing to do. And the more time that goes by, more cars on the road makes it even harder.

It’s certainly not a debilitating difference to foreign drivers. After a few minutes, your mind tends to adapt. But the most fascinating places to see the confusion might be at border crossings, where drivers are required to immediately change sides. British drivers who take their cars under the English Channel need to swap when they arrive in France. The same is true when crossing borders between China and Pakistan, as well as China and Hong Kong. Where possible, that seems like a good enough reason to cross a border on foot.

Interesting analysis and you've raised some good points.

Best example in the world where switching between driving on the left and right needs to be made? Right here in Thailand!

3 out of 4 of Thailand's neighbors drive on the right. Unfortunately, the system for changing sides, which is done at the border, isn't necessary flawless. Between Thailand and Laos MOST though not all border crossings have clearly marked signs. One border crossing where there are NO signs and due to a hill between the two border posts, making it impossible to see what's coming up on the other side is the Huay Kon/Muang Ngern crossing in Thailand's Nan / Laos' Saiyabuli province. The actual switchover point should be halfway between the two countries in the no-man's land. However, in reality the only indicator of where you should switch is the short gap between the better paved and marked Thai built road and the Lao road, after which road signs are on the right. No actual arrows, signs etc. are in place there, for some unknown reason. On the other hand, the much newer Phu Doo crossing in Uttaradit clearly has arrows marked and signs in place. The switchover takes place on top of a steep hill, but with markings and signs it's a breeze.

On the other hand, between Cambodia and Thailand, where cross border traffic volume remains low (though it is expected to increase considerably in the future, especially if the two countries ever get around to signing an agreement that covers private motor vehicles crossing into each other's territory) it is a free for all. There are no markings, signs indicating that traffic needs to switch from one side to the other. Most vehicles switch wherever it's convenient or where they think they have crossed into Thai territory (or vice versa). I haven't seen any head-on collisions yet, but for safety's sake they really should address this. Of course it didn't seem to matter for the last couple of decades but it may start to matter soon.

Between Thailand and Myanmar, there are only 4 crossings where vehicles are allowed to cross (as far as I'm aware) of which I know 2 have road markings and signs (Mae Sot/Myawady and Mae Sai/Tachilek). I'm not sure what Phu Nam Ron/Htee Khee is like as I haven't been there, but presumably as a new crossing, it's similar. The Three Pagodas Pass has no markings, but the left lane is blocked when entering Myanmar from the Thai side (right lane when crossing into Thailand) so presumably that causes drivers to remember. However, with that border crossing not really being officially open and traffic volume extremely small, it's not a big deal either way.

BTW a little correction in your post. Most southern and eastern African countries drive on the LEFT. Two more African countries (Burundi and Rwanda) which both currently drive on the RIGHT may soon switch to the LEFT as they are part of a customs and economic union with other left driving African countries and have poor relations with some of their right driving neighbors.

In Scandinavia, only Sweden switched from driving on the left to the right, but all their cars were already LHD and being completely surrounded by other left hand traffic countries this made sense. It made less sense for an island like Iceland to do the same, given that I believe most of their cars were RHD. All other Scandinavian countries already drove on the right to begin with.

Also another interesting anecdote: While a lot more countries have switched from driving on the left to the right, for whatever reasons, all of them did so prior to the mid-1970s. Since then, the only countries that have switched sides have been from RIGHT to LEFT. These countries/territories include: East Timor (in 1975? I think) when it was absorbed into Indonesia. Since independence from Indo in 1999 it has retained the custom of driving on the left and in fact it would be absurd not to mention expensive and pointless to switch back again. Okinawa switched back to left hand traffic as in the rest of Japan due to a rule that in one country, only one side of the road driving is allowed. Finally, Samoa in 2009 I think it was switched to the left in order to allow Samoan expats based in left-hand driving Aus and NZ to bring their cars over more easily.

Oops...obviously I was meant to say that "but their cars were already LHD and being completely surround by other RIGHT hand traffic countries this made sense." I guess now it's me becoming the dyslexic one, LOL.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Police are completely ineffective - they don't seem to understand anything about road safety and certainlty can't be relied on to give an accurate, scientific appraisal of what is going on.....of course there are more Chinese involved in incidents - especially in the North - a few years back there weren't any Chinese cars at all.

What is happening is an influx of FOREIGN drivers and the authorities are reacting to it in a particularly ignorant way.

inUk or anywhere in Europe you will notice not just foreign cars but a huge amount of foreign vehicles on ALL roads......Eastern Europe, and the West........no-one raises an eyebrow - it's called TRADE.

to suggest that Chinese cars don't bring in money just shows the paucity of thinking by the authorities.

In the end they had better just get used to it - if ASEAN is going to work one should expect to see heavy goods vehicles from ALL ASEAN countries and of course3 China as China is a major trading partner.

What people fail to realise about China is that the west part of that huge country is effectively land-locked - they NEED to have access to the roads of Laos,Thailand and Burma not just for trade in those countries but also for access to the potential deep-water ports in burma....why do you think they keep building all these roads? Altruism is certainly not a big part of Chinese foreign policy.

foreign vehicles - get used to them and stop being such moaning minnies.

Wrong dude - your thinking goes against the predominant way of thinking in this part of the world.

There is NO freedom of movement for vehicles in Asia; it is NOTHING like Europe. RHD vs. LHD has little do with it either.

While I know China well and I think it's a nice country and everything, what you have failed to address is that China itself is perhaps the MOST closed to foreign vehicles of all Asian countries. If you think they deserve to get in to Thailand/Myanmar etc. (which does NOT let them in BTW) then we too should be allowed free access to China.

You mentioned trade. Well hahaha...don't you realize that foreign registered private vehicles aren't involved in trade? Nor would they be allowed to, given that would be working illegally without a work permit.

Chinese commercial vehicles have never been allowed to enter Thailand.

Nobody is stopping Chinese drivers from picking up a rental car and driving here in Thailand. What they ARE trying to stop (or slow down the flow of) is Chinese registered cars and rightly they SHOULD be. Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand, period. UNLESS they are forced to spend a considerable amount of money to be allowed the privilege of entering, with a Thai tour guide in tow - that WOULD bring in considerable amounts of money and that is what China imposes on Thais and other foreigners bringing in their own cars to China (exceptions apply for Lao registered cars travelling within about 200km from the border and presumably Russian ones coming from Russia driving close to their common border).

There is not enough road space for them all either; Thailand has major traffic congestion problems, especially during holiday periods. Consider that even without the Chinese vehicles, even Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai face VERY heavy traffic during Songkran and just after Christmas/New Year. It can take an hour to pass through Chiang Rai even, if travelling from the south towards Mae Sai.

The new rules that Thailand is imposing will slow down the flow of Chinese cars into Thailand. It remains to be seen if they will be enough of a deterrent though - however, a very limited number of Chinese cars wouldn't be a problem. It's the LARGE numbers that we shouldn't be seeing.

" Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand" - no accounting for some people's thought processes!

I was referring to government ministers. Try talking to some Vietnamese and Chinese ministers about what you think about their rigid rules on the entry of foreign registered vehicles. They will come up with all sorts of reasons why they won't change their policies.

As I said before - in this part of the world bilateral agreements mean everything. Chinese vehicles should NOT be allowed entry into Thailand EXCEPT under the same circumstances that China imposes on Thai vehicles. This being due to a lack of an agreement between the two countries. Also, China signed but does NOT apply the 2003 GMS CBTA agreement which was supposed to allow vehicles from all 5 other Mekong countries to freely enter China's Yunnan and Guangxi provinces, Thailand included. In reality, China only has a bilateral agreement on buses travelling between Yunnan and Laos, and an agreement on trucks. There is a local, probably non-formal agreement on private vehicles with Laos, but the Lao are clearly disadvantaged when it comes to that agreement.

Finally after a lot of discussion, Thailand is now drafting regulations to bring the number of Chinese vehicles in Thailand under control. Broadly speaking, they will also be applied to other foreign registered vehicles (excluding ASEAN ones I would presume) however, it is so rare to see non-ASEAN or non-Chinese vehicles driving in Thailand that it won't make a big difference for them. I don't think the new Thai rules will be much of a deterrent for say an EU registered campervan or motorhome doing a round the world trip (I saw two yesterday - one registered in Spain the other I think in Holland - the latter one was probably waiting at the shopping mall for the former one), but may be enough for Chinese cars. The big difference of course is the difference in numbers - during this recent CNY as many as 4400 Chinese vehicles entered Thailand, whereas there were probably less than a dozen non-ASEAN, non-Chinese foreign registered vehicles.

[cumgranosalum]

THere is no case for Thailand to Change over to DoR.

however there isa strong, even overwhelming case for Burma to switch back to DoL

If they did there would be uninterrupted DoL from the Iran Pakistan border through to Tasmania....

Pakistan, India Nepal Bhutan, Bangladesh, BURMA, Thailand Malaysia, Indonesia Australia (and New Zealand.

the actual problems of LHD/RHD are immaterial, it is the numbers of cars already built for RHD and the source for supplies - in Burma 90% of vehicles are already RHD

i might add that relative ownership of LHD vehicles in countries that neighbour Thailand is so relatively low that if anyone should change, it should be them.

[Tomtomtom69]

THere is no case for Thailand to Change over to DoR.

however there isa strong, even overwhelming case for Burma to switch back to DoL

If they did there would be uninterrupted DoL from the Iran Pakistan border through to Tasmania....

Pakistan, India Nepal Bhutan, Bangladesh, BURMA, Thailand Malaysia, Indonesia Australia (and New Zealand.

Now there's something I can agree with you on. Thailand will never change to DoR not ONLY because there's no case for it, but because it would be too expensive, too complicated and just frankly stupid. There are nearly 20 million registered vehicles in Thailand, excluding motorcycles.

For Burma/Myanmar to change back, yes, absolutely there is a case. Especially when you consider that 1) they already have experience switching sides 2) 90% of their vehicular fleet is still RHD, suited for DoL 3) their east-west neighbors, with which they have considerable trade relationships and they have agreed to open a trilateral highway (India-Myanmar-Thailand) also DoL

However, it appears that Myanmar will probably not make the switch as it considers it to be too expensive. That's why the government has introduce a policy that all new vehicles imported will need to be LHD. Also, I think starting this year all used vehicles imported must be no more than about 2 years old (first registered in 2014 or later) and also LHD. Existing RHD vehicles do not need to be converted (unlike in Cambodia, which implemented a similar policy in 2001 but has never really enforced it). Details of these policies, which keep changing, can be found on the Irrawaddy.org news website.

Actually, notwithstanding the fact that many of the countries you have mentioned are island nations hence whether they drive on the same side of the road or not is pretty irrelevant (like Indonesia, Australia, New Zealand) but going east of NZ, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and many other Pacific island chains also drive on the left. Not all though, but many. The independent ones generally drive on the left, while the ones claimed by the USA and France generally drive on the right (American Samoa, Guam, New Caledonia, Tahiti/French Polynesia).

[Tomtomtom69]

The New Zealand Police are rather sensible in regard to Tourist Drivers.They simply pull the Offender over in their renter , and if they see fit,call a Taxi for them and thats it. Rental Co has to collect and sort out the situation. Asians and Chinese mainly.

I think it's fairly obvious that Kiwi police are following a racist policy there. As are the BK post et al with their complaints about Chinese drivers in Thailand - talk about the pot calling the kettel black - they wouldn't know a bad driver if one ran them over.

Nah, I don't think so. Don't make such ridiculous accusations - the NZ police are in their right to pull over drivers who can't stick to their lane. NZ police are also amongst the strictest in the world when it comes to enforcing road rules. What do you suggest they do? Stop pulling them over as soon as they notice it's a mainland Chinese driver driving? What a crock.

If we reversed the situation, I don't think a Chinese police officer would have any reservations pulling over a white, western driver who drives dangerously, even though enforcement of traffic laws there is more lax than in NZ.

Or how about the Thai officer that pulled over and arrested the "crazy white woman" in Pattaya a year or two ago, who drove against the flow of traffic, damaging multiple vehicles along the way. Was he "racist"? Or was he simply doing his job?

Come on really, get a grip. Nobody is pulling over anyone just on the way they look.

The Bangkok Post's analysis was very good re: Chinese drivers. Anyway, it doesn't matter what you think, they are going to change the law and I think it's long overdue. There are enough bad local drivers (including I'm sure, some locally based expats) that we really don't need to add thousands of poorly trained LHD Chinese drivers/cars to the mix. There is no case for them to be here. I've said it numerous times - no agreement = no Chinese cars should be here (except those arriving on tours with Thai tour guide perhaps). If no actions were taken, consider what the situation could have been like in 2-3 years from now, instead of 4400 during CNY 2016 maybe 20,000? Then what, in 10 years, 100,000? Seriously, there's no way that would have been sustainable.

[cumgranosalum]

The New Zealand Police are rather sensible in regard to Tourist Drivers.They simply pull the Offender over in their renter , and if they see fit,call a Taxi for them and thats it. Rental Co has to collect and sort out the situation. Asians and Chinese mainly.

I think it's fairly obvious that Kiwi police are following a racist policy there. As are the BK post et al with their complaints about Chinese drivers in Thailand - talk about the pot calling the kettel black - they wouldn't know a bad driver if one ran them over.

Nah, I don't think so. Don't make such ridiculous accusations - the NZ police are in their right to pull over drivers who can't stick to their lane. NZ police are also amongst the strictest in the world when it comes to enforcing road rules. What do you suggest they do? Stop pulling them over as soon as they notice it's a mainland Chinese driver driving? What a crock.

If we reversed the situation, I don't think a Chinese police officer would have any reservations pulling over a white, western driver who drives dangerously, even though enforcement of traffic laws there is more lax than in NZ.

Or how about the Thai officer that pulled over and arrested the "crazy white woman" in Pattaya a year or two ago, who drove against the flow of traffic, damaging multiple vehicles along the way. Was he "racist"? Or was he simply doing his job?

Come on really, get a grip. Nobody is pulling over anyone just on the way they look.

The Bangkok Post's analysis was very good re: Chinese drivers. Anyway, it doesn't matter what you think, they are going to change the law and I think it's long overdue. There are enough bad local drivers (including I'm sure, some locally based expats) that we really don't need to add thousands of poorly trained LHD Chinese drivers/cars to the mix. There is no case for them to be here. I've said it numerous times - no agreement = no Chinese cars should be here (except those arriving on tours with Thai tour guide perhaps). If no actions were taken, consider what the situation could have been like in 2-3 years from now, instead of 4400 during CNY 2016 maybe 20,000? Then what, in 10 years, 100,000? Seriously, there's no way that would have been sustainable.

Vehemently denying racism is a bit of a giveaway, don't you think.?

[Ace of Pop]

Raceist is a very handy word for P.C. Lefties they use it for every weak point that make.[emoji572]️ers

[ardokano]

If we reversed the situation, I don't think a Chinese police officer would have any reservations pulling over a white, western driver who drives dangerously, even though enforcement of traffic laws there is more lax than in NZ.

You wrong...

Chines police officer in many region in past even if you do not have drivers licence give you Go!!!

1. His do not much well speak english.

2. Look1.. so do not want spell much time for paperwark.

But...

If its be black man I am sure 99% checking all documents . and in post even 100% look car ALL..

So rasist thinks have any time in many Asia coutry..

But you cant say anuthink because not have any real proof...

And in some regione for some ethnic chines group also Different than another chines or white people.

[ardokano]

The Police are completely ineffective - they don't seem to understand anything about road safety and certainlty can't be relied on to give an accurate, scientific appraisal of what is going on.....of course there are more Chinese involved in incidents - especially in the North - a few years back there weren't any Chinese cars at all.

What is happening is an influx of FOREIGN drivers and the authorities are reacting to it in a particularly ignorant way.

inUk or anywhere in Europe you will notice not just foreign cars but a huge amount of foreign vehicles on ALL roads......Eastern Europe, and the West........no-one raises an eyebrow - it's called TRADE.

to suggest that Chinese cars don't bring in money just shows the paucity of thinking by the authorities.

In the end they had better just get used to it - if ASEAN is going to work one should expect to see heavy goods vehicles from ALL ASEAN countries and of course3 China as China is a major trading partner.

What people fail to realise about China is that the west part of that huge country is effectively land-locked - they NEED to have access to the roads of Laos,Thailand and Burma not just for trade in those countries but also for access to the potential deep-water ports in burma....why do you think they keep building all these roads? Altruism is certainly not a big part of Chinese foreign policy.

foreign vehicles - get used to them and stop being such moaning minnies.

Wrong dude - your thinking goes against the predominant way of thinking in this part of the world.

There is NO freedom of movement for vehicles in Asia; it is NOTHING like Europe. RHD vs. LHD has little do with it either.

While I know China well and I think it's a nice country and everything, what you have failed to address is that China itself is perhaps the MOST closed to foreign vehicles of all Asian countries. If you think they deserve to get in to Thailand/Myanmar etc. (which does NOT let them in BTW) then we too should be allowed free access to China.

You mentioned trade. Well hahaha...don't you realize that foreign registered private vehicles aren't involved in trade? Nor would they be allowed to, given that would be working illegally without a work permit.

Chinese commercial vehicles have never been allowed to enter Thailand.

Nobody is stopping Chinese drivers from picking up a rental car and driving here in Thailand. What they ARE trying to stop (or slow down the flow of) is Chinese registered cars and rightly they SHOULD be. Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand, period. UNLESS they are forced to spend a considerable amount of money to be allowed the privilege of entering, with a Thai tour guide in tow - that WOULD bring in considerable amounts of money and that is what China imposes on Thais and other foreigners bringing in their own cars to China (exceptions apply for Lao registered cars travelling within about 200km from the border and presumably Russian ones coming from Russia driving close to their common border).

There is not enough road space for them all either; Thailand has major traffic congestion problems, especially during holiday periods. Consider that even without the Chinese vehicles, even Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai face VERY heavy traffic during Songkran and just after Christmas/New Year. It can take an hour to pass through Chiang Rai even, if travelling from the south towards Mae Sai.

The new rules that Thailand is imposing will slow down the flow of Chinese cars into Thailand. It remains to be seen if they will be enough of a deterrent though - however, a very limited number of Chinese cars wouldn't be a problem. It's the LARGE numbers that we shouldn't be seeing.

" Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand" - no accounting for some people's thought processes!

I was referring to government ministers. Try talking to some Vietnamese and Chinese ministers about what you think about their rigid rules on the entry of foreign registered vehicles. They will come up with all sorts of reasons why they won't change their policies.

As I said before - in this part of the world bilateral agreements mean everything. Chinese vehicles should NOT be allowed entry into Thailand EXCEPT under the same circumstances that China imposes on Thai vehicles. This being due to a lack of an agreement between the two countries. Also, China signed but does NOT apply the 2003 GMS CBTA agreement which was supposed to allow vehicles from all 5 other Mekong countries to freely enter China's Yunnan and Guangxi provinces, Thailand included. In reality, China only has a bilateral agreement on buses travelling between Yunnan and Laos, and an agreement on trucks. There is a local, probably non-formal agreement on private vehicles with Laos, but the Lao are clearly disadvantaged when it comes to that agreement.

Finally after a lot of discussion, Thailand is now drafting regulations to bring the number of Chinese vehicles in Thailand under control. Broadly speaking, they will also be applied to other foreign registered vehicles (excluding ASEAN ones I would presume) however, it is so rare to see non-ASEAN or non-Chinese vehicles driving in Thailand that it won't make a big difference for them. I don't think the new Thai rules will be much of a deterrent for say an EU registered campervan or motorhome doing a round the world trip (I saw two yesterday - one registered in Spain the other I think in Holland - the latter one was probably waiting at the shopping mall for the former one), but may be enough for Chinese cars. The big difference of course is the difference in numbers - during this recent CNY as many as 4400 Chinese vehicles entered Thailand, whereas there were probably less than a dozen non-ASEAN, non-Chinese foreign registered vehicles.

in this part of the world who are often stronger than he is right .. and agreements are not respected.

China did not lose anything from the prohibition of Chinese cars in Thailand

but some Thai "wallet" can lose. If a person likes to travel by car, it will not go for frequent (or shorten the stay and visit) to a place where you can not stop by the car.

Thailand is not flourishing comfortable car rental. it is expensive and ban to leave the city where rent car.

[Tomtomtom69]

Wrong dude - your thinking goes against the predominant way of thinking in this part of the world.

There is NO freedom of movement for vehicles in Asia; it is NOTHING like Europe. RHD vs. LHD has little do with it either.

While I know China well and I think it's a nice country and everything, what you have failed to address is that China itself is perhaps the MOST closed to foreign vehicles of all Asian countries. If you think they deserve to get in to Thailand/Myanmar etc. (which does NOT let them in BTW) then we too should be allowed free access to China.

You mentioned trade. Well hahaha...don't you realize that foreign registered private vehicles aren't involved in trade? Nor would they be allowed to, given that would be working illegally without a work permit.

Chinese commercial vehicles have never been allowed to enter Thailand.

Nobody is stopping Chinese drivers from picking up a rental car and driving here in Thailand. What they ARE trying to stop (or slow down the flow of) is Chinese registered cars and rightly they SHOULD be. Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand, period. UNLESS they are forced to spend a considerable amount of money to be allowed the privilege of entering, with a Thai tour guide in tow - that WOULD bring in considerable amounts of money and that is what China imposes on Thais and other foreigners bringing in their own cars to China (exceptions apply for Lao registered cars travelling within about 200km from the border and presumably Russian ones coming from Russia driving close to their common border).

There is not enough road space for them all either; Thailand has major traffic congestion problems, especially during holiday periods. Consider that even without the Chinese vehicles, even Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai face VERY heavy traffic during Songkran and just after Christmas/New Year. It can take an hour to pass through Chiang Rai even, if travelling from the south towards Mae Sai.

The new rules that Thailand is imposing will slow down the flow of Chinese cars into Thailand. It remains to be seen if they will be enough of a deterrent though - however, a very limited number of Chinese cars wouldn't be a problem. It's the LARGE numbers that we shouldn't be seeing.

" Chinese registered cars should NOT be in Thailand" - no accounting for some people's thought processes!

I was referring to government ministers. Try talking to some Vietnamese and Chinese ministers about what you think about their rigid rules on the entry of foreign registered vehicles. They will come up with all sorts of reasons why they won't change their policies.

As I said before - in this part of the world bilateral agreements mean everything. Chinese vehicles should NOT be allowed entry into Thailand EXCEPT under the same circumstances that China imposes on Thai vehicles. This being due to a lack of an agreement between the two countries. Also, China signed but does NOT apply the 2003 GMS CBTA agreement which was supposed to allow vehicles from all 5 other Mekong countries to freely enter China's Yunnan and Guangxi provinces, Thailand included. In reality, China only has a bilateral agreement on buses travelling between Yunnan and Laos, and an agreement on trucks. There is a local, probably non-formal agreement on private vehicles with Laos, but the Lao are clearly disadvantaged when it comes to that agreement.

Finally after a lot of discussion, Thailand is now drafting regulations to bring the number of Chinese vehicles in Thailand under control. Broadly speaking, they will also be applied to other foreign registered vehicles (excluding ASEAN ones I would presume) however, it is so rare to see non-ASEAN or non-Chinese vehicles driving in Thailand that it won't make a big difference for them. I don't think the new Thai rules will be much of a deterrent for say an EU registered campervan or motorhome doing a round the world trip (I saw two yesterday - one registered in Spain the other I think in Holland - the latter one was probably waiting at the shopping mall for the former one), but may be enough for Chinese cars. The big difference of course is the difference in numbers - during this recent CNY as many as 4400 Chinese vehicles entered Thailand, whereas there were probably less than a dozen non-ASEAN, non-Chinese foreign registered vehicles.

in this part of the world who are often stronger than he is right .. and agreements are not respected.

China did not lose anything from the prohibition of Chinese cars in Thailand

but some Thai "wallet" can lose. If a person likes to travel by car, it will not go for frequent (or shorten the stay and visit) to a place where you can not stop by the car.

Thailand is not flourishing comfortable car rental. it is expensive and ban to leave the city where rent car.

I don't really understand what you are saying but based on the parts I do:

First of all, yes, you are right, China doesn't really lose out by making it more difficult for Chinese cars to come here, the same is true of the reverse situation. Chinese tourists are still very welcome, but increasingly they'll either have to pay for the privilege to drive their cars here or do what everyone else does and rent locally. Or just catch a bus.

There is plenty of car rental in Thailand and yes, the market IS flourishing. New cities where international car rental agencies have been available since 2015 include Mae Sot and Lampang. Local car agencies are all over the place and ALL of them allow you to drive around the country, what are you talking about? None of them however, allow you to drive their cars across the border, but renting a car from Hat Yai and driving to Mae Sai for instance, is allowed.

Please get your facts straight next time.

[Tomtomtom69]

If we reversed the situation, I don't think a Chinese police officer would have any reservations pulling over a white, western driver who drives dangerously, even though enforcement of traffic laws there is more lax than in NZ.

You wrong...

Chines police officer in many region in past even if you do not have drivers licence give you Go!!!

1. His do not much well speak english.

2. Look1.. so do not want spell much time for paperwark.

But...

If its be black man I am sure 99% checking all documents . and in post even 100% look car ALL..

So rasist thinks have any time in many Asia coutry..

But you cant say anuthink because not have any real proof...

And in some regione for some ethnic chines group also Different than another chines or white people.

Can't really understand your garbled response but here goes:

I have driven in China many times. If a white person was driving there and pulled over for whatever reason, the police officer would speak Chinese with them not let them go just because they can't speak English. You are right only in the sense that the police there aren't very strict, despite the fairly strict traffic laws in place in China, they aren't very well enforced. Chinese people generally can't speak English but WILL speak Chinese directly with foreigners in most cases. A lot of foreigners living in China speak anything from mediocre to very good Chinese, which is much more than can be said for foreign expats living in Thailand, few of whom can speak anything more than barstool Thai.

One time at a toll collection point on the main highway between the Lao border (Mohan) and Kunming, I was told by an officer about a major accident 200km up the road that was blocking traffic and asked whether I had a Chinese driver's licence. I said yes and all was good. On another occasion at the Yunnan-Guangxi border the police pulled over all vehicles and checked documents including my driver's licence. Similar situation at the checkpoint north of Jinghong coming from the Lao border though my driver's licence was not checked that time.

I have seen a black African person drive a car in Kunming. Had to look twice, but yes, he was African and no, he wasn't pulled over by the police. Presumably he had a Chinese driver's licence too.

[Ace of Pop]

Some of those Chin SUVs look like the Real Deal. Saw 3 yesterday,not that bad at first glance.

[cumgranosalum]

Saw a convoy of SUVs headed towards rayong - presumably Koh Samet or Koh Chang...included an Audi

[Ace of Pop]

[ardokano]

Can't really understand your garbled response but here goes:

I have driven in China many times. If a white person was driving there and pulled over for whatever reason, the police officer would speak Chinese with them not let them go just because they can't speak English. You are right only in the sense that the police there aren't very strict, despite the fairly strict traffic laws in place in China, they aren't very well enforced. Chinese people generally can't speak English but WILL speak Chinese directly with foreigners in most cases. A lot of foreigners living in China speak anything from mediocre to very good Chinese, which is much more than can be said for foreign expats living in Thailand, few of whom can speak anything more than barstool Thai.

One time at a toll collection point on the main highway between the Lao border (Mohan) and Kunming, I was told by an officer about a major accident 200km up the road that was blocking traffic and asked whether I had a Chinese driver's licence. I said yes and all was good. On another occasion at the Yunnan-Guangxi border the police pulled over all vehicles and checked documents including my driver's licence. Similar situation at the checkpoint north of Jinghong coming from the Lao border though my driver's licence was not checked that time.

I have seen a black African person drive a car in Kunming. Had to look twice, but yes, he was African and no, he wasn't pulled over by the police. Presumably he had a Chinese driver's licence too.

How you know its be black african or black from another place?

I am not many time frive in China. I LIVE in China near 7 year . and buy my first come in China even than i am not live in China.

Total drive in China more whan 500k km

Near 3 year with out Chines driver licence. stop 8 time.. 7 times almast be when be near student Olympiad so it be I guess attention to the security reason. ANf avry time give go.

And one time at a checkpoint far from the higway (when I actually forgot at home right). Come some officer.. Say please care on Road and next time show DL another way I am arrest you!

I am not see african or anothe black guys. I KNOW many guys with black skin ..

So my frien with dark scin tell me. it is impossible to let go of them Chinese officer.

PS

and this discussion is not my idea, but I was told the same said .. 3 senior police officer. one of them the head of the district police.

Anf can I ask from you get this is

"not let them go just because they can't speak English. "

How many Time you be stop with out DL and can say this is ?

I say my imho basif on experience

[ardokano]

images (5).jpgimages (6).jpg

this is hoover this russian number

Anf yes its be car..

Can offroad

8 year ego price less 20k..

if my Fortunerr would be this logo and this price, I would not be disappointed. But Toyota and more than 40k

this is car even hard use not get gaps on plastik bumper

although plastic interior creaks even when a light frost But its not even 20k and it CHINES CAR

[ardokano]

I don't really understand what you are saying but based on the parts I do:

First of all, yes, you are right, China doesn't really lose out by making it more difficult for Chinese cars to come here, the same is true of the reverse situation. Chinese tourists are still very welcome, but increasingly they'll either have to pay for the privilege to drive their cars here or do what everyone else does and rent locally. Or just catch a bus.

There is plenty of car rental in Thailand and yes, the market IS flourishing. New cities where international car rental agencies have been available since 2015 include Mae Sot and Lampang. Local car agencies are all over the place and ALL of them allow you to drive around the country, what are you talking about? None of them however, allow you to drive their cars across the border, but renting a car from Hat Yai and driving to Mae Sai for instance, is allowed.

Please get your facts straight next time.

1. So China not care about it.

2. Some type car traveling it more hight cost than come by plane and after rent..( need stop at nitgh in hotel not all can drive from China to Thailand in one time this out stop.Mayby after need change glass, becouse road from China to Thailand not wery good. may be after need polish car for same reason o even paint.)

3."Local car agencies are all over the place and ALL of them allow you to drive around the country, what are you talking about?" Local egency not have normal comfort car. only some local lowcost and not for all its be easy to change normal car for some lowcost and go drive many thousanf km.

And any comfort car in Thailand its have expensive price, not evry place can get it.

SO my point its if not baned car from China its lost some money for Thqailand.

Baned its not Way.

Get some fee for entry?- Yes

Must have full cover insurance - yes!!

but why need banned?

You guess if Chines get rent car they more care drive?

[Tomtomtom69]

I don't really understand what you are saying but based on the parts I do:

First of all, yes, you are right, China doesn't really lose out by making it more difficult for Chinese cars to come here, the same is true of the reverse situation. Chinese tourists are still very welcome, but increasingly they'll either have to pay for the privilege to drive their cars here or do what everyone else does and rent locally. Or just catch a bus.

There is plenty of car rental in Thailand and yes, the market IS flourishing. New cities where international car rental agencies have been available since 2015 include Mae Sot and Lampang. Local car agencies are all over the place and ALL of them allow you to drive around the country, what are you talking about? None of them however, allow you to drive their cars across the border, but renting a car from Hat Yai and driving to Mae Sai for instance, is allowed.

Please get your facts straight next time.

1. So China not care about it.

2. Some type car traveling it more hight cost than come by plane and after rent..( need stop at nitgh in hotel not all can drive from China to Thailand in one time this out stop.Mayby after need change glass, becouse road from China to Thailand not wery good. may be after need polish car for same reason o even paint.)

3."Local car agencies are all over the place and ALL of them allow you to drive around the country, what are you talking about?" Local egency not have normal comfort car. only some local lowcost and not for all its be easy to change normal car for some lowcost and go drive many thousanf km.

And any comfort car in Thailand its have expensive price, not evry place can get it.

SO my point its if not baned car from China its lost some money for Thqailand.

Baned its not Way.

Get some fee for entry?- Yes

Must have full cover insurance - yes!!

but why need banned?

You guess if Chines get rent car they more care drive?

Chinese cars won't be banned any more than Thai cars are banned in China. Just that they will soon need to request advance permission to come. There are other articles on this topic already. Just that I mentioned it first and one wise guy here said he hadn't read anything about it in the English language media until smack, bam, numerous articles were published all over the place, by Thai PBS, Bangkok Post etc.

However, Chinese campervans may no longer be easily given entry.

Also, Thailand drives on the LEFT with RHD while China drives on the RIGHT with LHD. Absolutely, if Chinese tourists drive RHD cars, they will be forced to adapt better to driving on the left, which is the intention here.

I agree that for the most part, driving to Thailand as opposed to flying is more expensive. It also requires a lot of time. Seems like many Chinese tourists have so much time they can spend weeks at a time driving here, unlike the rest of us who have actual jobs and can only spend a week on holidays and thus need to fly.

Rental cars in Thailand are not expensive. AVIS rents out cars from as little as 699 Baht for daily rentals, much less for long-term ones. That is not expensive. If you want expensive, try renting a car in Switzerland, Singapore or Hong Kong.

[ardokano]

Chinese cars won't be banned any more than Thai cars are banned in China. Just that they will soon need to request advance permission to come. There are other articles on this topic already. Just that I mentioned it first and one wise guy here said he hadn't read anything about it in the English language media until smack, bam, numerous articles were published all over the place, by Thai PBS, Bangkok Post etc.

However, Chinese campervans may no longer be easily given entry.

Also, Thailand drives on the LEFT with RHD while China drives on the RIGHT with LHD. Absolutely, if Chinese tourists drive RHD cars, they will be forced to adapt better to driving on the left, which is the intention here.

I agree that for the most part, driving to Thailand as opposed to flying is more expensive. It also requires a lot of time. Seems like many Chinese tourists have so much time they can spend weeks at a time driving here, unlike the rest of us who have actual jobs and can only spend a week on holidays and thus need to fly.

Rental cars in Thailand are not expensive. AVIS rents out cars from as little as 699 Baht for daily rentals, much less for long-term ones. That is not expensive. If you want expensive, try renting a car in Switzerland, Singapore or Hong Kong.

1. Thailand, Dingapure/HK, Swizerland.

2. 699 baht it for fomestic manufactured not comfort car.

3. You try rent some minimum as Mersedes C etc.

I am not talking about E or ML.

"Chinese cars won't be banned any more than Thai cars are banned in China".

Tell me why nee Chines unbanned Thailand car? Thailand tourist give some extra money in chines wallet?

For russians it be easy near some border, becouse YES its give for Chines some extra money.

And It some THAI "wallet " lost some money.. not Chines.

PS

belive me more easy drive youself car in another side road then NEW car this another side sit on right side road.

So i no think chines safe driving on the unusual side of the car.