Thailand, US sign agreement to share tax information

[thaihome]

NEVER is a very strong statement! I am happy for you that you are so CONFIDENT!

You appear to have no knowledge of what a US Consulate is allowed to do while at the same time you appear to the sort of person that can only post non productive, negative posts.

Yes I am confident because knowledge is on my side, not ignorance.

TH

thank you for your polite input -- GEE if knowledge is on your side please enlighten the rest of us as to US government /consulate laws - no mention or acknowledgement of what Thai might do -- head in the sand - ignorance! this is the meaning of someone who ignores the possibility of change and sticks by there belief's that what I believe is cast in stone - good luck my friend

Though I'm unsure why you are making an issue of this I will try to explain.

The income statement US citizens get from the US Consulate is merely a document in which the person's affirms they receive such in such income and that the statement was made in presence of the Consulate Official as a notary. The Consulate makes no claim that the statement is true, that could only be done if the Consulate authenticated the backup documents. The Consulate cannot authenticat documents, that can only be done by the issuing entity in the US.

I am not sure what is meant by "no acknowledgement of what Thai might do". Certainly there is the chance Thailand may change the requirements for a retirement extention, though they have not in many years. The last time when they raised the financial requirements many years ago. At the time many people said it was the end of the world as we know it and nobody was going to get a retirement extention and Thailand was finished as a retirement haven.

The FUBAR reporting requirements are almost 10 years old now, the tax law under discussion in this thread is 2 years old. None of it is new. I have found a way to live within the regulations without an excess of reporting. I'm sorry that you seem to be offended by the fact I'm not upset by it.

TH

[JimGant]

the FATCA law requires you only to report financial assets ie bank accts, stock brokarage accts , ins etc -- property assets are not part of it - so if you have over 10,000 in finalcial assets in total outside the US at any point during the calendar year it must be reported

Sounds like you're confusing FATCA thresholds with FBAR thresholds....

You got the only "financial assets" part correct (value of your foreign home and rental properties not subject to FATCA). But the threshold is way off -- it begins at $50k, for single taxpayers living in the US ($100k married). But, if you're an Expat, the single threshold begins at $200k ($400k married). Thus, based on the thresholds, the Feds are mainly after tax cheats living in the US -- not Expats. Also, FATCA is two parted. The above mentioned thresholds are for reporting financial assets on your tax filing of Form 1040, by attaching FATCA Form 8938. The second part of FATCA is where your foreign bank accounts *may* be reportable by the foreign financial institution -- and here the reporting threshold is $50k. So if your accounts, in aggregate, didn't exceed $50k in the year, at a single financial institution (including all branches), this financial institution is not required to report anything. Now, some reports have said some banks find reporting all US person accounts easier than trying to identify aggregate accounts. Still don't know what Thai banks will do, but it doesn't seem logical they would want to report all US account holders, when probably only 5% trip the $50k threshold..... Cheaper to identify aggregate accounts, particularly when only resources in place are needed to meet FATCA's due diligence criteria. We'll find out this year, I guess.

FATCA is probably the most destructive legislation to be enacted by the US in the last 100 years.

Yeah, but it sure has attracted a lot of copy cats in the First World interested in recouping their citizens unreported income.

OECD’s Common Reporting Standard

The OECD has recently taken further steps to improve global cross border tax compliance by releasing the Common Reporting Standard (“CRS”). The CRS is a set of global standards for the annual exchange of financial information by FI’s pertaining to customers, to the tax authorities of the jurisdictions in which those customers are resident for tax purposes. The standards are due to be formally presented to the G20 Finance Ministers at their next meeting on 20 September 2014. Over 65 countries including Ireland, have already publically committed to adhering to these standards which have an implementation date of 1 January 2016.

http://www.businesslaw-magazine.com/2015/06/11/the-oecd-common-reporting-standard-crs-fatca-is-going-global/

Note that, like FATCA, the interest is in residents avoiding taxes from foreign sources -- not in expats.

And moving right along to FBAR.....

btw, for all my fellow US Ex-patriots.. If you use the online version of TurboTax it will ask about your foreign accounts and if needed it will prepare and file the forms required for FBAR also..

No, you still have to log onto the Treasury website and file your FBAR yourself (TT advises how to do this). But TT will do your FATCA Form 8938 -- assuming you exceed those expat 200/400k financial thresholds previously discussed (doubtful for most reading this).

"so if your married and you have to deposit the 400,000 in a thai bank 2 to 3 months before hand will that create a problem with the IRS?"

Well, you will need to file a FBAR (FinCEN Form 114), since you've exceeded the $10k FBAR threshold. This is filed at the opposite end of Treasury from the IRS, namely with the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN). But, assuming your 2/3 month deposit earned interest, IRS will indeed be interested in this foreign income -- or at least that your reported it, regardless of amount. And with today's tax software, once you mention foreign income, it will generate a Schedule B, which in turn will ask "Are you required to file a FBAR?" Kinda hard to plead ignorance of the FBAR requirement -- if you're being honest about your foreign income with your tax software.

"The FBAR law states that, if I happen to be $1 over the threshold requiring filing and I fail to file, the US government is entitled to take 50% of my holdings. That is seriously immoral and stupid."

If you declared your foreign income on your tax return, FBAR penalties for failing to file are waived.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephendunn/2014/07/20/all-you-need-to-do-is-file-your-delinquent-fbars/#798a26132e24

But, if this has been the situation for past years, best to file these past FBARs online, with the explanation "All foreign income declared, but didn't know I had to file a FBAR." (There's a drop down box for explanations.)

[ThailandLOS]

Feels increasingly better day by day to not be a US citizen

[JimGant]

Feels increasingly better day by day to not be a US citizen

And I feel better day by day -- that you're not.

[JimGant]

The income statement US citizens get from the US Consulate is merely a document in which the person's affirms they receive such in such income and that the statement was made in presence of the Consulate Official as a notary. The Consulate makes no claim that the statement is true,

Right. And as you say, no way are resources available by the Consulate to validate income statements.

But jj has a point. The US Consulate could be prompted to procedurally change its methods -- by requiring applicants to present something that looks like valid pension, social security, annuity, rental, whatever income statements. Sure, the clever bugger could have really good looking bogus statements. But some (many?) cheating scum bags would probably be challenged to produce a valid looking Government pension or Social Security statement. So, yeah, some (many?) cheaters would be caught out -- when no documentation is presented -- or when that Social Security statement is handwritten, with Chang stains.

The UK asks for income statements for its citizens when providing an income letter. But they certainly don't have the resources to validate these income statements. They, however, *do* write in small print at the bottom of the income letter something like, "We don't guarantee these numbers." Certainly, requiring some kind of income paperwork of its citizens has prevented a few more shady farangs in Thailand.

So, it's not beyond believe that things could change at the US Consulates in Thailand -- at least now requiring a quick glance at your income documentation. However, no change in the affidavit income letter needed. Not even any fluff at the bottom about "reported income not guaranteed." Just a new change requiring more than your passport, signature, and baht note to walk out with an income letter.

[Pimay1]

The income statement US citizens get from the US Consulate is merely a document in which the person's affirms they receive such in such income and that the statement was made in presence of the Consulate Official as a notary. The Consulate makes no claim that the statement is true,

Right. And as you say, no way are resources available by the Consulate to validate income statements.

But jj has a point. The US Consulate could be prompted to procedurally change its methods -- by requiring applicants to present something that looks like valid pension, social security, annuity, rental, whatever income statements. Sure, the clever bugger could have really good looking bogus statements. But some (many?) cheating scum bags would probably be challenged to produce a valid looking Government pension or Social Security statement. So, yeah, some (many?) cheaters would be caught out -- when no documentation is presented -- or when that Social Security statement is handwritten, with Chang stains.

The UK asks for income statements for its citizens when providing an income letter. But they certainly don't have the resources to validate these income statements. They, however, *do* write in small print at the bottom of the income letter something like, "We don't guarantee these numbers." Certainly, requiring some kind of income paperwork of its citizens has prevented a few more shady farangs in Thailand.

So, it's not beyond believe that things could change at the US Consulates in Thailand -- at least now requiring a quick glance at your income documentation. However, no change in the affidavit income letter needed. Not even any fluff at the bottom about "reported income not guaranteed." Just a new change requiring more than your passport, signature, and baht note to walk out with an income letter.

I always carry my SS income statement and show it to the Consulate rep just in case....

[JimGant]

I always carry my SS income statement and show it to the Consulate rep just in case....

Has he ever asked for it? Or, do you just flash it at him -- in which case, what's his response?

Edited March 7, 2016 by JimGant

[radiochaser]

There is no written law that states that Americans have to pay personal income tax. There are former IRS officials that have went on record stating they themselves could not find any written law and even the former head of the IRS dodged the question and simply stated that Americans understand it was their duty to pay personal income tax. There is a difference between a persons duty and a country's law.

People think that their taxes go to pay for schools, false, paid for with property taxes. People think their income taxes pay for roads, false, paid for by the fuel tax. And the list goes on and on and on. The personal income tax is the biggest scam of all time.

Here is a list of taxes Americans pay.

#1 Air Transportation Taxes (just look at how much you were charged the last time you flew)

#2 Biodiesel Fuel Taxes

#3 Building Permit Taxes#4 Business Registration Fees#5 Capital Gains Taxes#6 Cigarette Taxes#7 Court Fines (indirect taxes)#8 Disposal Fees#9 Dog License Taxes#10 Drivers License Fees (another form of taxation)#11 Employer Health Insurance Mandate Tax#12 Employer Medicare Taxes#13 Employer Social Security Taxes#14 Environmental Fees#15 Estate Taxes#16 Excise Taxes On Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans#17 Federal Corporate Taxes#18 Federal Income Taxes#19 Federal Unemployment Taxes#20 Fishing License Taxes#21 Flush Taxes (yes, this actually exists in some areas)#22 Food And Beverage License Fees#23 Franchise Business Taxes#24 Garbage Taxes#25 Gasoline Taxes#26 Gift Taxes#27 Gun Ownership Permits#28 Hazardous Material Disposal Fees#29 Highway Access Fees#30 Hotel Taxes (these are becoming quite large in some areas)#31 Hunting License Taxes#32 Import Taxes#33 Individual Health Insurance Mandate Taxes#34 Inheritance Taxes#35 Insect Control Hazardous Materials Licenses#36 Inspection Fees#37 Insurance Premium Taxes#38 Interstate User Diesel Fuel Taxes#39 Inventory Taxes#40 IRA Early Withdrawal Taxes#41 IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)#42 IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)#43 Library Taxes#44 License Plate Fees#45 Liquor Taxes#46 Local Corporate Taxes#47 Local Income Taxes#48 Local School Taxes#49 Local Unemployment Taxes#50 Luxury Taxes#51 Marriage License Taxes#52 Medicare Taxes#53 Medicare Tax Surcharge On High Earning Americans Under Obamacare#54 Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax (if you don’t buy “qualifying” health insurance under Obamacare you will have to pay an additional tax)#55 Obamacare Surtax On Investment Income (a new 3.8% surtax on investment income)#56 Parking Meters#57 Passport Fees#58 Professional Licenses And Fees (another form of taxation)#59 Property Taxes#60 Real Estate Taxes#61 Recreational Vehicle Taxes#62 Registration Fees For New Businesses#63 Toll Booth Taxes#64 Sales Taxes#65 Self-Employment Taxes#66 Sewer & Water Taxes#67 School Taxes#68 Septic Permit Taxes#69 Service Charge Taxes#70 Social Security Taxes#71 Special Assessments For Road Repairs Or Construction#72 Sports Stadium Taxes#73 State Corporate Taxes#74 State Income Taxes#75 State Park Entrance Fees#76 State Unemployment Taxes (SUTA)#77 Tanning Taxes (a new Obamacare tax on tanning services)#78 Telephone 911 Service Taxes#79 Telephone Federal Excise Taxes#80 Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Taxes#81 Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Taxes#82 Telephone State And Local Taxes#83 Telephone Universal Access Taxes#84 The Alternative Minimum Tax#85 Tire Recycling Fees#86 Tire Taxes#87 Tolls (another form of taxation)#88 Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)#89 Use Taxes (Out of state purchases, etc.)#90 Utility Taxes#91 Vehicle Registration Taxes#92 Waste Management Taxes#93 Water Rights Fees#94 Watercraft Registration & Licensing Fees#95 Well Permit Fees#96 Workers Compensation Taxes#97 Zoning Permit Fees

I guess they need to pay for the wars somehow.

But, if you were, like me and my siblings, born on a United States Government property (military base), you are required to pay income taxes and all those other taxes in your list are just icing on the cake!!!

This according to information in a 1 inch stack of papers sent to me, when I lived in California, by a man who claimed I did not have to pay income tax.

Other than that, if I do not pay certain taxes, then people with guns will arrive at my house to arrest me and put me in jail for not paying those taxes!

Or people with guns will arrive at my house, take all but items needed for basic life to sell them at auction and keep the money, because I did not pay taxes!!

[Rhys]

April Fooles early... what ...time to turn in the passport, head on up to the jungle...see ya..