fake nominee case

[Naam]

sometimes being precise (not pedantic) is the only way to pinpoint rubbish such as in posting #43.

[Naam]

The company who set up your company and came up with the shareholders should sort this out.

I know someone in a similar position who's employees only exist on paper (they are real people), but when (I think) the labour department comes to check the office and sees no employees a 'transaction' is made and it's all fine and dandy. That's been common practice for years - at least in BKK.

Like others have mentioned I am not sure what you're pleading guilty to. You probably set up the company to get yourself a work-permit and work 'legally' without having 4 thai employees, correct?

As long as you paid tax and social security for your 'employees' then I don't see the trouble you are really in. After all this is Thailand not a westernised country, so even you are circumventing the law by having 4 fake employees doesn't automatically put you in jail or anything close to that.

Theres 1000's of companies out there with fake employees. As long as SS is paid and an envelope exchanges hands if you get a visit to your office, then it's business as usual.

In your case, I am quite sure someone is trying to rat you out or try to stick something on you. It usually doesn't happen out of nowhere.

Don't go with one of those small hua hin law firms, they will just fleece you in my opinion. Chose someone who has been around for a longtime.

another completely off topic comment. this thread is about "nominee shareholders" and not employees (see opening posting).

[vasudev]

Did you use a lawyer to set up the company? must have --- so who invented the nominees names??? maybe you dont want to mix with that lawyer again , maybe a guilty plea adding that you were unaware that the Nominees did not exist as your lawyer set up the company , but then sounds a bit far fetched,

Good luck.

Dude... you got it all totally wrong!

nominee shareholders are not invented. these Thai citizens are not fake because they do exist... what they did not do is invest own money in the company as Thai authorities are made to believe.

[vasudev]

The company who set up your company and came up with the shareholders should sort this out.

I know someone in a similar position who's employees only exist on paper (they are real people), but when (I think) the labour department comes to check the office and sees no employees a 'transaction' is made and it's all fine and dandy. That's been common practice for years - at least in BKK.

Like others have mentioned I am not sure what you're pleading guilty to. You probably set up the company to get yourself a work-permit and work 'legally' without having 4 thai employees, correct?

As long as you paid tax and social security for your 'employees' then I don't see the trouble you are really in. After all this is Thailand not a westernised country, so even you are circumventing the law by having 4 fake employees doesn't automatically put you in jail or anything close to that.

Theres 1000's of companies out there with fake employees. As long as SS is paid and an envelope exchanges hands if you get a visit to your office, then it's business as usual.

In your case, I am quite sure someone is trying to rat you out or try to stick something on you. It usually doesn't happen out of nowhere.

Don't go with one of those small hua hin law firms, they will just fleece you in my opinion. Chose someone who has been around for a longtime.

another completely off topic comment. this thread is about "nominee shareholders" and not employees (see opening posting).

you are absolutely right , thats how it happened, all my taxes are cleared, social securities and balance sheet.

[vasudev]

How have you been caught ? Should tell to others to warn them !

DSI officials were at my business place and start inquiring aboit way back in feb 2013 and the company i was running was closed in june 2013

because i got married with thai national

[vasudev]

I heard sometime back the new government is going to close the lop holes for creating the fake company to be able to buy land or house. They were talking about asking people to show what the company was doing all these years and where is the account etc. May be you could loose the house or land if this is what you have created the fake company for. If it is business related then all these years you have probably paid up someone to keep quite and also you not paid the tax etc for your suppose to be 4 Thai employee . So hope all goes well. What they do , I have no idea. May be you should contact the lawyer in one of the expats club as they should be professional in this kind of problems.

if you have no idea why do you spread your wild theories based on "I heard some time back"?

to all of u guys u just wanna say that i have alleady closed my company in june 2013

[vasudev]

Recommend you speak to a lawyer. But basically it sounds like a real 'nominee' company and not a fake one. i guess a fake one would be a company that doesn't exist and was never registered. Most nominee companies are real companies that are registered, do annual tax returns etc, they are called 'nominee' because their only purpose is to be able to purchase land and the Thai shareholders neither have contributed to it nor do they have any decision authority.

yes , its a real nominee company ,,,with balance sheet and social security , the only thing they caught that the thai shareholers dont have money

in my company and i m running it alone.. the company is closed in june 2013 but the proceedings took long and the court case comes up now

[Gary A]

It has always been illegal for foreigners to control a company, especially a company owning land with nominees who have no financial investment in the company. That was a common way to skirt the law. The bent lawyers love to set up these companies and should be prosecuted. Those lawyers love to set up these companies. They use their own nominees, accountants and inflated fees plus all the annual charges.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about going to jail. You will likely have to sell the property at a drastic loss but I doubt anything more than that will happen. There are many thousands of people in the same situation and some settlement will have to be reached. The jails are not big enough for all the foreigners who have been scammed by these bent lawyers. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but the magnitude of scammed foreigners should make a difference as to how these cases are handled.

[vasudev]

It has always been illegal for foreigners to control a company, especially a company owning land with nominees who have no financial investment in the company. That was a common way to skirt the law. The bent lawyers love to set up these companies and should be prosecuted. Those lawyers love to set up these companies. They use their own nominees, accountants and inflated fees plus all the annual charges.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about going to jail. You will likely have to sell the property at a drastic loss but I doubt anything more than that will happen. There are many thousands of people in the same situation and some settlement will have to be reached. The jails are not big enough for all the foreigners who have been scammed by these bent lawyers. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but the magnitude of scammed foreigners should make a difference as to how these cases are handled.

just wanna inform you that the company is allready closed from june 2014 onwards,,, does it help?

[fletchsmile]

Well they stopped the death penalty a few years ago in Thailand.

Officially yes. But let's not forget extra judicial killings by a previous regime and the possibilities of a comeback

On the upside: I believe the legal penalty for using nominee structures to circumvent laws around what foreigners are and are not allowed to do under FBA etc is only up to THB 1 million and/ or up to 3 years in jail

Edited March 15, 2016 by fletchsmile

[Naam]

Well they stopped the death penalty a few years ago in Thailand.

Officially yes. But let's not forget extra judicial killings by a previous regime and the possibilities of a comeback

On the upside: I believe the legal penalty for using nominee structures to circumvent laws around what foreigners are and are not allowed to do under FBA etc is only up to THB 1 million and/ or up to 3 years in jail

just jail? no more years of hard labour in northern Thailand's uranium mines?

family members of the criminal not sold into slavery anymore?

[DonaldBattles]

Regarding Thaksin, the 2500 extra judicial killings might have been 500 drug dealers and 2000 enemies of the state. No one knows the real count except the person who ordered them. When you think that the 2500 might have had 4 direct family members then this brings the suffering up to 10,000 people. You may rest assured that Thaksin will never return. There is no security service large enough to protect a person from 10,000 angry family members. To say the least about all the other dirty and corrupt deals that went on. Those people also are unhappy.

Regarding the subject of this thread the business man has pleaded guilty already so he is just waiting to be sentenced so all of the advice that people give him has no meaning. It is time to stop beating on this poor guy. He has thrown himself on the mercy of the court and lawyers can not help him.

[Gary A]

It has always been illegal for foreigners to control a company, especially a company owning land with nominees who have no financial investment in the company. That was a common way to skirt the law. The bent lawyers love to set up these companies and should be prosecuted. Those lawyers love to set up these companies. They use their own nominees, accountants and inflated fees plus all the annual charges.

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about going to jail. You will likely have to sell the property at a drastic loss but I doubt anything more than that will happen. There are many thousands of people in the same situation and some settlement will have to be reached. The jails are not big enough for all the foreigners who have been scammed by these bent lawyers. Ignorance of the law is no excuse but the magnitude of scammed foreigners should make a difference as to how these cases are handled.

just wanna inform you that the company is allready closed from june 2014 onwards,,, does it help?

I don't know if that would help or just more complicate the situation.

[sendintheclowns]

Sorry but you are obviously a devious person who tried to circumvent the law and therefore you deserve whatever the penalty is. Suck it up. No sympathy here.

You're in advanced stage of what, since you have Nothing to contribute? This is a help site. As the saying goes; 'if you have nothing good to say - say nothing at all'.

You need a state of happiness and jai dee to live comfortably in Thailand .

As Don Battles posted, there are tens of thousands who have used nominee companies, to hold land, do business. Who do you think owns Tesco Thailand, etc.

The OP should seek advice from a competent lawyer. PM me and I'll recommend 2, but they are in Phuket. However, they can probably refer you onward to someone in HH. Good luck with getting out of the difficulties you are in. There, but for good fortune, go many.

[sendintheclowns]

I was uninformed, when suggesting a competent lawyer; although it is still unclear to me the exact stage in the legal system that you are at. It would be helpful if we knew that.

[sead]

Many times the same lawyers that helped you open the company are listed as your shareholders. If this is the case then you immediately have to get another lawyer to get a neutral opinion.

[Jim7777]

Yes the penalty is deportation.