Why is land so expensive in Thailand? Is it?!

[blackcab]

Many factors have been pushing up land prices. The nominal inflationary factor is a small part.A greater part is the sudden debt level of family members who do not inhabit the family land except to pay brief visits home bearing gifts purchased on available credit in unaffordable vehicles previously purchased on credit using the family chanote as security. When faced with calls for overdue payment and the sum total is added up plus a percentage to tempt the aging parents into believing such a sum will provide for them forever more that total is now typical of the asking.

sadly the percentage for the parents is the first to go in reductions of the asking.

Many parents would aquiesce to selling in order to save face of family .

Never doubt that if there is any hint of a farang involved in the buying the price naturally is increased in the initial asking.

And if there is no chanote issued then unless the buyer and seller are very near family then it would be best passed by.

Another factor that has been negatively been made apparent is the impact of corporate accumulation. The negative has been the illegitimate aquisitions. But at the same time legitimate aquisitions have assisted the rise in average value. In East Thailand vast areas of land are now owned or leased long term by corporate business.

Not available to me now but I do recall seeing about 2 years ago that the average land value in Thailand had reached 150,000 per rai.

Obviously locality would make that average only a reference.

Many years before I did hear comments about farang distorting the price of land by being willing to pay too much. Maybe at that time it may have had some legitimacy but ten years on I think that would be a minor factor.

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

Leased land can still be obtained. Legitimately if done properly. And that has the advantage of that land for the term of the lease as if your own.

30 years on , if the way the world is going lets you actually last that long, ...............................

Makro has a good deal on usb keyboards at the minute. Buy a few because your space bar is going to wear out soon.

Hmmmmm. I could perhaps avoid using it at all. But as a two finger typist I am cursed with that habit. Is theremoreyoucansayaboutit?

If you cut down on the amount of spaces you transmit you are actually conserving the Internet.

[Dumbastheycome]

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

You're wrong,

Western countries are suffering population reductions, as is Thailand.

I would like to see evidence of that claim. Or do you cite a reduction in the growth rate? I have yet to hear of the "human lemming syndrome".

Thailand actually has no official record of total population beyond an estimate which in reality is well be low the actuality. Birth numbers in Thailand are also based mainly on urban population while rural births are estimated. And importantly the "growth rate" of many charts do not offset the migratory effects. Birth/death rates in Western countries account for an average of 25% of actual resident increased population numbers.

The tsunami that impacted Thailand caused the death of at least 1 +million unaccounted unregistered unknown to authority people around the whole impact regions.Some estimates suggest as many as 3 million.

Some regions have a measured zero /minus population growth such as Germany and the Czechrepublic.

Offsetting this is the massive Asian / African averages.

And if people could only comprehend that as a primary cause of the migratory trend into Europe then there might be a little less paranoid interpretations.

Similarly Thailands resistance to unproductive immigrants.

We can breed at will. We can not "create" land.

[Dumbastheycome]

Many factors have been pushing up land prices. The nominal inflationary factor is a small part.A greater part is the sudden debt level of family members who do not inhabit the family land except to pay brief visits home bearing gifts purchased on available credit in unaffordable vehicles previously purchased on credit using the family chanote as security. When faced with calls for overdue payment and the sum total is added up plus a percentage to tempt the aging parents into believing such a sum will provide for them forever more that total is now typical of the asking.

sadly the percentage for the parents is the first to go in reductions of the asking.

Many parents would aquiesce to selling in order to save face of family .

Never doubt that if there is any hint of a farang involved in the buying the price naturally is increased in the initial asking.

And if there is no chanote issued then unless the buyer and seller are very near family then it would be best passed by.

Another factor that has been negatively been made apparent is the impact of corporate accumulation. The negative has been the illegitimate aquisitions. But at the same time legitimate aquisitions have assisted the rise in average value. In East Thailand vast areas of land are now owned or leased long term by corporate business.

Not available to me now but I do recall seeing about 2 years ago that the average land value in Thailand had reached 150,000 per rai.

Obviously locality would make that average only a reference.

Many years before I did hear comments about farang distorting the price of land by being willing to pay too much. Maybe at that time it may have had some legitimacy but ten years on I think that would be a minor factor.

Population growth globally is now exponential. Purely on that basis land is a reducing commodity regardless of the intended functional use.( or abuse).

Leased land can still be obtained. Legitimately if done properly. And that has the advantage of that land for the term of the lease as if your own.

30 years on , if the way the world is going lets you actually last that long, ...............................

Makro has a good deal on usb keyboards at the minute. Buy a few because your space bar is going to wear out soon.

Hmmmmm. I could perhaps avoid using it at all. But as a two finger typist I am cursed with that habit. Is theremoreyoucansayaboutit?

If you cut down on the amount of spaces you transmit you are actually conserving the Internet.

Ok.

[Inyourendo]

?.........

Edited April 13, 2016 by Inyourendo

[Adolfaart]

One Rai equals 0.40 of an acre - 2.5 Rai equals 1 acre - I think and Mark Twain said, "Buy land, they're not making it anymore".

Hi,

piersbackett is right i'm agree with you. one rai equals 0.40 of an acre - 2.5 rai equals 1 acre. It's very expensive to buy land in bangkok.

[timberpond]

Gary A, I just bought 5.5 rai for 350k of Sor Por Kor land. It has electricity and tarmac paved road in the village and 7km away from the main city of fang where the makro and tesco are.

I understand your concern about chanote lands but I have a different thinking. The chanote land in fang city are going at 200k a ngan not rai. A rai will be in an average of 800k to 1 mil. It will take more than a lifetime to farm it. The produce of the land will be sold at the same farmgate prices. You can't sell your fruits higher price just because it came from a chanote land. Since I cannot legally owned any land in Thailand I would rather minimize my risk to the lowest. My land came to be a little over 60k a rai and worked out to be 40 baht a sqm. If a dwarf longan tree takes 25 sqm (5 x 5) it will cost me 1000 baht. After 4 years of husbandry it should produce anywhere 50-60kg yearly for the next 15 -20 years. If you timed your harvest correctly targeting chinese new year or Ching Ming festivals, 1 harvest and my land price is returned. After that is what I call, farming for the maintenance of my family.

I also read that you bought chanote land for 100k which is a really good price. I did came across chanote land at that price at northeast CR near to laos river. The problem is that electricity could not reach it and it is in the middle of nowhere. The nearest bank is 58km away and nearest tesco lotus is 36km away.

The chances of government taking away lands are really very very low. There's millions and millions of rai in north alone. For my land to be targeted by them will be like winning the Power ball or Mega Millions lottery.

My opinion is that chanote land are required if we are buying to build a home or invest to build a factory where the investment are huge and we need the security of ownership. As for farming, it is not necessary. Moreover if you want to sell your land to make a profit, only heavy-weight plans will buy your land. No farmers will unless you are selling at a farm land price. I don't believe that chanote lands are easy to be sold than non chanote. It is still location location location.

I'm not saying that I'm right nor you are wrong. Nobody is right since we cannot legally own any land. It's just purely for discussion purposes.

[blackcab]

Gary A, I just bought 5.5 rai for 350k of Sor Por Kor land. It has electricity and tarmac paved road in the village and 7km away from the main city of fang where the makro and tesco are.

I understand your concern about chanote lands but I have a different thinking. The chanote land in fang city are going at 200k a ngan not rai. A rai will be in an average of 800k to 1 mil. It will take more than a lifetime to farm it. The produce of the land will be sold at the same farmgate prices. You can't sell your fruits higher price just because it came from a chanote land. Since I cannot legally owned any land in Thailand I would rather minimize my risk to the lowest. My land came to be a little over 60k a rai and worked out to be 40 baht a sqm. If a dwarf longan tree takes 25 sqm (5 x 5) it will cost me 1000 baht. After 4 years of husbandry it should produce anywhere 50-60kg yearly for the next 15 -20 years. If you timed your harvest correctly targeting chinese new year or Ching Ming festivals, 1 harvest and my land price is returned. After that is what I call, farming for the maintenance of my family.

I also read that you bought chanote land for 100k which is a really good price. I did came across chanote land at that price at northeast CR near to laos river. The problem is that electricity could not reach it and it is in the middle of nowhere. The nearest bank is 58km away and nearest tesco lotus is 36km away.

The chances of government taking away lands are really very very low. There's millions and millions of rai in north alone. For my land to be targeted by them will be like winning the Power ball or Mega Millions lottery.

My opinion is that chanote land are required if we are buying to build a home or invest to build a factory where the investment are huge and we need the security of ownership. As for farming, it is not necessary. Moreover if you want to sell your land to make a profit, only heavy-weight plans will buy your land. No farmers will unless you are selling at a farm land price. I don't believe that chanote lands are easy to be sold than non chanote. It is still location location location.

I'm not saying that I'm right nor you are wrong. Nobody is right since we cannot legally own any land. It's just purely for discussion purposes.

A well written and considered post.

[uthaithanirules]

Gary A, I just bought 5.5 rai for 350k of Sor Por Kor land. It has electricity and tarmac paved road in the village and 7km away from the main city of fang where the makro and tesco are.

I understand your concern about chanote lands but I have a different thinking. The chanote land in fang city are going at 200k a ngan not rai. A rai will be in an average of 800k to 1 mil. It will take more than a lifetime to farm it. The produce of the land will be sold at the same farmgate prices. You can't sell your fruits higher price just because it came from a chanote land. Since I cannot legally owned any land in Thailand I would rather minimize my risk to the lowest. My land came to be a little over 60k a rai and worked out to be 40 baht a sqm. If a dwarf longan tree takes 25 sqm (5 x 5) it will cost me 1000 baht. After 4 years of husbandry it should produce anywhere 50-60kg yearly for the next 15 -20 years. If you timed your harvest correctly targeting chinese new year or Ching Ming festivals, 1 harvest and my land price is returned. After that is what I call, farming for the maintenance of my family.

I also read that you bought chanote land for 100k which is a really good price. I did came across chanote land at that price at northeast CR near to laos river. The problem is that electricity could not reach it and it is in the middle of nowhere. The nearest bank is 58km away and nearest tesco lotus is 36km away.

The chances of government taking away lands are really very very low. There's millions and millions of rai in north alone. For my land to be targeted by them will be like winning the Power ball or Mega Millions lottery.

My opinion is that chanote land are required if we are buying to build a home or invest to build a factory where the investment are huge and we need the security of ownership. As for farming, it is not necessary. Moreover if you want to sell your land to make a profit, only heavy-weight plans will buy your land. No farmers will unless you are selling at a farm land price. I don't believe that chanote lands are easy to be sold than non chanote. It is still location location location.

I'm not saying that I'm right nor you are wrong. Nobody is right since we cannot legally own any land. It's just purely for discussion purposes.

Ditto, on it being a well written post

But I got to ask, why do you bother with farming?

[trogers]

Gary A, I just bought 5.5 rai for 350k of Sor Por Kor land. It has electricity and tarmac paved road in the village and 7km away from the main city of fang where the makro and tesco are.

I understand your concern about chanote lands but I have a different thinking. The chanote land in fang city are going at 200k a ngan not rai. A rai will be in an average of 800k to 1 mil. It will take more than a lifetime to farm it. The produce of the land will be sold at the same farmgate prices. You can't sell your fruits higher price just because it came from a chanote land. Since I cannot legally owned any land in Thailand I would rather minimize my risk to the lowest. My land came to be a little over 60k a rai and worked out to be 40 baht a sqm. If a dwarf longan tree takes 25 sqm (5 x 5) it will cost me 1000 baht. After 4 years of husbandry it should produce anywhere 50-60kg yearly for the next 15 -20 years. If you timed your harvest correctly targeting chinese new year or Ching Ming festivals, 1 harvest and my land price is returned. After that is what I call, farming for the maintenance of my family.

I also read that you bought chanote land for 100k which is a really good price. I did came across chanote land at that price at northeast CR near to laos river. The problem is that electricity could not reach it and it is in the middle of nowhere. The nearest bank is 58km away and nearest tesco lotus is 36km away.

The chances of government taking away lands are really very very low. There's millions and millions of rai in north alone. For my land to be targeted by them will be like winning the Power ball or Mega Millions lottery.

My opinion is that chanote land are required if we are buying to build a home or invest to build a factory where the investment are huge and we need the security of ownership. As for farming, it is not necessary. Moreover if you want to sell your land to make a profit, only heavy-weight plans will buy your land. No farmers will unless you are selling at a farm land price. I don't believe that chanote lands are easy to be sold than non chanote. It is still location location location.

I'm not saying that I'm right nor you are wrong. Nobody is right since we cannot legally own any land. It's just purely for discussion purposes.

Ditto, on it being a well written post

But I got to ask, why do you bother with farming?

The idea started when paddy were being bought at Bt20,000/tonne?

[timberpond]

But I got to ask, why do you bother with farming?

Good morning my friend… why bother farming? We did it because it is still a trade that feed millions in this country and it will still sustain in years to come.

1. I do not have a lucrative pension to look forward to
2. I do not have a vacant house for rent back in my home country
3. I do not have a talented mind like many do here in investment and stock

Expenses vary from people to people. Many are living down south by the beach with expenditure of 100k a month. These groups of elites should not go into farming. It just doesn’t make sense to them. Someone like me that could get by comfortably with 25-30k a month will find farming a great idea. Seriously folks, it’s not that bad. Let me explain why…

Many people thought that farming is a full time back breaking work which is not true. Let’s stick to lamyai since I mentioned it earlier. You watered it like once in 3-4 days and if there’s a heavy downpour you could skip it. Pruning, fertilizer/chemical application, removing weeds, etc. You don’t do it yourself. You hired part time worker to do it. The service of part timer required is like what? 5 days a month?

Your job is to pay attention on the health of the crops and remedies if necessary. Some might think that watering 200 trees is no joke. Here again a misconception. You don’t halt buckets walking 100m, you just have to switch on the pumps. How difficult can that be?

Read some thread in farming section when you are free. There are quite a few successful farmers here in thai visa. They are not living the poor farmer life that we know. I personally visited redbullhorn in CR. He’s a reputable fish farmer in the north making definitely more than a million baht a year. I don’t see him breaking his back. He spent an hour in the morning and afternoon feeding his stock and that’s it. How about harvesting and cleaning ponds? He hired helpers! He doesn’t have rents to pay nor bar addiction habits to maintain. (note – bar addiction habit and evening couch beers by the balcony is really 2 different thing)

So to me farming for a semi-retirement plan seem to be a good deal but not for others. Sorry for the long-winded post again. Cheers.

[timberpond]

The idea started when paddy were being bought at Bt20,000/tonne?

No sir. I wouldn't think of rice paddy unless we have 100 rai. But just for discussion purposes let's look at rice paddy. Gone are the days where the back breaking preparing of paddy field and planting. They uses machinery to plant them and pump to flood the field. I'm not saying that it is totally effortless but think again, after that you just let nature do its work. Maybe in between harvest require to spray agrochemical during the summer and release/filling the field with pumps like twice throughout the entire season. In total, how many days of work have you invested in this plot of land? Not much really. And if it can make you 2k baht after costing a plot, hey why not! Forget about the advertisement showing the old hunchback farmer working his ass out on the paddy field.

The prolong drought might affect prices this year and it's interesting who had tonnes of rice will laugh to the bank. I not trying to prove my point here but just simply nice to talk to people from different walks of life. I might be wrong about what I posted and will need guidance from experienced teacher here.

[Dumbastheycome]

The idea started when paddy were being bought at Bt20,000/tonne?

No sir. I wouldn't think of rice paddy unless we have 100 rai. But just for discussion purposes let's look at rice paddy. Gone are the days where the back breaking preparing of paddy field and planting. They uses machinery to plant them and pump to flood the field. I'm not saying that it is totally effortless but think again, after that you just let nature do its work. Maybe in between harvest require to spray agrochemical during the summer and release/filling the field with pumps like twice throughout the entire season. In total, how many days of work have you invested in this plot of land? Not much really. And if it can make you 2k baht after costing a plot, hey why not! Forget about the advertisement showing the old hunchback farmer working his ass out on the paddy field.

The prolong drought might affect prices this year and it's interesting who had tonnes of rice will laugh to the bank. I not trying to prove my point here but just simply nice to talk to people from different walks of life. I might be wrong about what I posted and will need guidance from experienced teacher here.

Do it as you see it ! You are correct in that farming is not the bleak picture many urban dwellers imagine.It would seem you have considered the concept quite well. I would suggest that you need to consider calculations of input versus outcome should be based on a low base expectation because farming almost invariably has factors that detract from the ideal. Research thoroughly agrochem. Be cautious about accepting " local " advice. There is a vast amount of Thai Govt. agricultural info that is mostly ignored in favour of "what we have always done'". Free soil teating services are available in many locations. But due to low demand you may need to wake them up.

[timberpond]

Thank you for the advise... We are fans of maejo! Many people view farming as a sure pay off job but we view it as a low risk business. In business you can't be certain that every year is going to be a good return. There are uncontrollable risk involved. Let's take the our old man as example, he has over 200 lychee trees and he controlled his expenses at 65k baht a year all in. He does nothing but hired hands for maintaining the trees. If this year became so bad that lychee going at 9 baht a kg (it ever happened once before) he will still break even. The lands and trees are still his, just that he didn't make any money this year. If this year is the same as last year, 14 baht a kg, he will make 110k baht for simply fishing and playing with his grandchildren all year long.

I ever read in this forum I guess about 2 year ago. Someone is so sad because he started lamyai 4 years before when a kg is going at 23 baht for AA. When the time he could harvest, the price is going at 5 baht top. He describe the hopelessness and condemned farming in Thailand. What I see is that he didn't produce off season fruits targeting the correct festivals. There's 2 ways to do it. Either you take good care of it and produce the fruits when it's in demand or leave it to nature without doing anything to it. Leaving it to nature of course will produce in season fruits rendering low prices.

Btw, you mentioned free soil treating services... what do you mean? Care to share a bit more?

[SoilSpoil]

The price of land is mostly determined by inflation and interest rates. People who invest in land or estates do that with a long term objective, the price of an apple in 1950 vs the price today., A lot better than keeping your money in the banks.

Never mind the population estimates for 2050 being over 10 billion.