Unhappy Condo Purchaser

[nostrel]

Letter in todays Bangkok Post

************************

Treated badly by condo developer

I bought a condominium at Belle Park Residence on Naratiwas Road, a

brand new condo, over a year ago now and I have found it to be the most

stressful, painstaking thing I have ever done. Not only did the

developer of Belle Park promise me and other customers that certain

amenities/facilities would be included in the finished project (a

garden on upper levels of the building, for instance), it failed to

even acknowledge that these promises were made.

I have not met a co-owner who hasn't had problems with either cracks in

walls, flooding of balconies, toilets releasing terrible smells, cracks

in the ceiling. As if this wasn't enough to deal with, the developer of

Belle Park continues to fail to address these problems 15 months since

it was completed.

There is one other co-owner that I know of who has voiced his

complaints time and time again in the sales office. Belle Park's

reaction is to call the police, who just stand idly by watching with

amusement as the argument persists. To add insult to injury, a Belle

Park representative starts taking photographs of the situation as to

keep a record for a possible lawsuit for causing a scene in the sales

room and damaging Belle Park's good name.

I stress that anyone who is to buy a condominium should always

investigate the developer before they buy, ask around and then make

your decision to buy. This is critical, really!

I have been complaining to Belle Park for a year about various problems

and I still don't know who to address my letters to!

I also urge the Bangkok Post to contact the co-owners committee of

Belle Park, because I think you would have an interesting story there

as the co-owners are up in arms, and they have no one to turn to. This

is not just a farang having a moan, this concerns hundreds of people

who feel they have been treated terribly by an unscrupulous,

unorganised company.

SIMON GREEN

[Gary A]

The writer is luckier than some. Take a look around the country and you will see huge developments that have never been finished. Some that were 90 percent finished have never had the electricity or the water hooked up, thus are not able to be occupied. The developers want to sell the units and then disappear. They don't care about a maintenance fund or security. When there is no money in the general fund nothing will be done to complete the complex. It IS a good selling point though. LOW low monthly maintenance fee. RIGHT!

[Nignoy]

Letter in todays Bangkok Post

************************

Treated badly by condo developer

I bought a condominium at Belle Park Residence on Naratiwas Road, a

brand new condo, over a year ago now and I have found it to be the most

stressful, painstaking thing I have ever done. Not only did the

developer of Belle Park promise me and other customers that certain

amenities/facilities would be included in the finished project (a

garden on upper levels of the building, for instance), it failed to

even acknowledge that these promises were made.

I have not met a co-owner who hasn't had problems with either cracks in

walls, flooding of balconies, toilets releasing terrible smells, cracks

in the ceiling. As if this wasn't enough to deal with, the developer of

Belle Park continues to fail to address these problems 15 months since

it was completed.

There is one other co-owner that I know of who has voiced his

complaints time and time again in the sales office. Belle Park's

reaction is to call the police, who just stand idly by watching with

amusement as the argument persists. To add insult to injury, a Belle

Park representative starts taking photographs of the situation as to

keep a record for a possible lawsuit for causing a scene in the sales

room and damaging Belle Park's good name.

I stress that anyone who is to buy a condominium should always

investigate the developer before they buy, ask around and then make

your decision to buy. This is critical, really!

I have been complaining to Belle Park for a year about various problems

and I still don't know who to address my letters to!

I also urge the Bangkok Post to contact the co-owners committee of

Belle Park, because I think you would have an interesting story there

as the co-owners are up in arms, and they have no one to turn to. This

is not just a farang having a moan, this concerns hundreds of people

who feel they have been treated terribly by an unscrupulous,

unorganised company.

SIMON GREEN

So Sorry about your predicament, but Confucius always say, before investing in thailand look before you leap!! :,the road to a happy existance in thailand is littered with the pieces of shattered european dreams Nignoy

[dvk1951]

It is always a crap shoot when one invests in blue sky.

I would never consider giving my hard earned money to someone in Thailand based upon promises as in the end, that is all they regardless of what the papers say. Your recouse is extremely limited due to a hugh void in consumer rights.

While I do hold sympathy for you in your current situation, there are repeated warnings from others on this site regarding investing in building projects prior to their completion. There is no way of knowing what the future holds regarding construction quality or the health of the annual maintenance funds.

Good Luck

dVk

[Casanundra]

I have looked at Belle Park several times as I was considering a purchase but I decided against it for several reasons, which i'll go into in a minute. I am sorry to hear what you have encountered but this is a clear example of not doing your homework or seeing the warning signs.

First let me point something out. Belle Park is NOT a new build. The buildings themselves are about 10 to 15 years old and ask any local Thai and they will confirm this for you. Belle Park is an OLD GHOST build that was purchased back from the repo yard at the bank, refurbished and pushed out to the unwary public as a new build. The rooms themselves are refurbished / new builds but the building is most certainly not.

Secondly, you only have to look at the cracks on the walls outside to see that this is something that you wouldn't want to buy. For something that is meant to be a new build, how come it looks 10 years old already on the outside? That's warning number 1 that should have made you ask some serious questions. I raised concerns with the sales teams as I was walking around about the HUGE cracks on the outside and talk about avoiding the question... not once did she acknowledge that i even asked that one. ALARM BELLS!

Third, why do the corridors and lifts look like they are from an old mine shaft? They are an absolute disgrace! When I asked about these I was basically told that they will be completed and painted and re-furbished once everyone has moved in and no damage will be caused. YEAH RIGHT!

When you ask when things will be finished, a response of 2 years (maybe) doesn't exactly instil confidence and I am talking all of this being discussed in the past 2 months.

The only good thing about Belle Park is that the Star Bucks coffee shop is quite nice but I wouldn't want to spend 3 point something million for a Condo just because there is a nice coffee shop at the end of the Soi.

In Thailand no more than anywhere I know, Buyer beware and doing your homework and due dilligience are the most important factors.

I know its a crap situation you and others are faced with but blimey

The silly thing is, had you driven further up the road to the junction past Belle Park on towards Rama III you would have found a Grade A new build Condo at roughly similar prices to Belle Park that far surpasses Belle park in terms of quality and style.

Doing your homework cannot be stressed enough, it really can't!

Chock Dee Na

[Sir Burr]

Before addressing the OP, please re-read the first line in his post.

[Casanundra]

" Treated badly by condo developer"

Yes we understand this and it's bang out of order and just another example of Thailand having no after sales service supported by no consumer rights.... But if you go to Belle Park and have a look it is fairly obvious to those who enter into the place that there are problems there for all the reasons I mentioned above in my post.

Ok things may have looked different 12 months ago but I doubt it because it looks like nothing has changed in all that time with the exception that more people have moved in.

You know what the first answer I got when I went and asked in the neighbourhood from the Thai's in the know... "don't buy!"

Like I said, doing your homework is important before making any kind of purchase here in Thailand.

Ask this then. Did anyone go and look at 'other' builds from the management company at Belle Park to see historically what they were like as a company? Anyone?

Pehaps Belle Park should be renamed to "Alarm Belle Park" because that's what went ringing off in my head when I was there looking around.

Edited November 1, 2006 by Casanundra

[Gary A]

I wasn't aware that this complex was a salvage job. Many complexes being sold right now ARE salvage jobs. Where do you suppose these salvage places came from? How many people lost their investment in the original project?

There are MANY established comlexes that have units for sale. They have a track record and money in the maintenance fund. Save yourself a lot of trouble and buy in a complex that has a track record. My condo is in Jomtien in a complex called Lalana. It is only about 20 percent farang owned so it is easy to get one in your own name and to be able to sleep well.

[HenryB]

I am surprise that one can have problems in Thailand with purchases in Thailand.

It must be you relax everything will be ok It will go up in value and you will make a lot of money.

Remember Bangkok will be more money they London and New York, as this is

Thailand the land of smilies.

[udon]

Please note, Nostrel is the messenger, not the author.

Letter in todays Bangkok Post

************************

[skippybangkok]

I always buy existing units...simple.

Have no doubt that it will be built cause its there already. More importantly, even new condo's can look terrible in just 3 years if the management and maintenance is not good.

If a 3 -5 year condo is still in good nick, most likely there are plenty of occupants and decent management.

New stuff always a risk in this country

[nostrel]

wasnt River Heaven a rehashed repo'd ? that turned out ok ,but second time around for some

[thaigene2]

I always buy existing units...simple.

Have no doubt that it will be built cause its there already. More importantly, even new condo's can look terrible in just 3 years if the management and maintenance is not good.

If a 3 -5 year condo is still in good nick, most likely there are plenty of occupants and decent management.

New stuff always a risk in this country

I agree with this. Looking at a 3-5 year old building is a much better prospect than buying a brand new place. You have a much better idea of what you're getting - and what you're geting 'into'.

The downside of course is after 5 years there aren't many units available. I also prefer low-rise over hi-rise. Though there are fewer people paying into the maintenance fees, the 'feel' to me is better. Think they're also in vogue now too..for what that's worth.

[Moonfruit]

I am surprise that one can have problems in Thailand with purchases in Thailand.

It must be you relax everything will be ok It will go up in value and you will make a lot of money.

Remember Bangkok will be more money they London and New York, as this is

Thailand the land of smilies.

An elightening post... cheers.

[udon]

I am surprise that one can have problems in Thailand with purchases in Thailand.

It must be you relax everything will be ok It will go up in value and you will make a lot of money.

Remember Bangkok will be more money they London and New York, as this is

Thailand the land of smilies.

An elightening post... cheers.

There maybe a kangaroo loose in the top paddock.

[bkkandrew]

I am surprise that one can have problems in Thailand with purchases in Thailand.

It must be you relax everything will be ok It will go up in value and you will make a lot of money.

Remember Bangkok will be more money they London and New York, as this is

Thailand the land of smilies.

Does anyone actually understand this post??

Anyway - I will go back to my advice that I have trotted out since washing up on these shores for the first time.. Rental is better than buying in Thailand, as they rely on YOU stumping up cash every month, which you can withold if problems are not sorted out, a sanction not available once you have handed over all you cash to buy the place.

Edited November 4, 2006 by bkkandrew

[Gary A]

I think it's always a good idea to rent for at least a year before buying anything. You can look around and decide if you really want to live in the area besides talking to other farangs who also live in the area. No doubt you will be offered condos owned by farangs who are either leaving that area or heading home. Just make sure you can own it in your own name if you do decide to buy. Renting with the option to buy is a great way to make a decision.

EDIT - I have a renter in my condo and have given him the option to buy. My unit is overpriced because I really don't want to sell it. I want my renter to stay. The rent is low so that he won't be able to find anything comparable for that price. I told him that for what he is paying for rent, he can't justify buying the place.

Edited November 5, 2006 by Gary A

[pumpuiman]

Letter not written by condo owner

136 Na Ranong Road, Klong Toey, Bangkok 10110, Thailand - fax:022403666 - email:[email protected]

The Oct 31 Postbag used a letter titled "Treated badly by condo developer" publishing a statement by Simon Green.

Contrary to this statement, Simon Green actually has never purchased a unit from Belle Park Residence and never lived in our condominium. All information presented by this person is based on lies and distortions.

We would be pleased to listen to any misunderstandings that he may have with our project. Instead, he cowardly made up a fictional story to terrorise and harass our company and damage our reputation for his own personal gain and amusement.

We do not claim to be perfect, but we pride ourselves on a remarkable service record. As of September, our response-time averaged three days for any complaints and we have a 95% customer satisfaction rate for defect services. This is an impressive service record by any standard for a property company in Thailand. We would like to further state that we pay close attention to all our customers' needs regardless of race or nationality.

Facts are Belle Park services more than 400 satisfied customers who have actually lived in Belle Park for some time. They enjoy our services and facilities, such as our large free-form tropical pool, two tennis courts, Starbucks on site and the nearby international school.

We encourage anyone who may have any concerns or interest in Belle Park Residence to see for themselves by visiting our project. You will find a great environment and convenient location.

Belle Park Residence sincerely regrets any confusion for our customers and readers of this newspaper caused by the fictional letter. Our company will further investigate this matter and will take legal action to protect the company against any future harassment.

NOPPAKOON POOMTHONGTROO, LAWYER

Bangkok

This was from todays Bangkok post

[Casanundra]

Thanks for that article it's always good to see the other side of the argument.

Now to open the debtae further, who would like to go there and ask the following questions.

1) What are they doing about the evident cracks and unsightly patch ups on the outside of the building?

2) When is the gym going to be finished that they have been promising will be done all year

3) Why don't they advertise that the building is over 10 years old and selling it off as a new build?

4) When are the mine shaft lifts that they pass off for use by tenants going to be completed?

Of course I don't particularly care because I don't own or live at Belle Park but a glossed over response still doesn't answer the obvious problems the place has when you venture on down there for a look see

Edited November 6, 2006 by Casanundra

[MiG16]

3) Why don't they advertise that the building is over 10 years old and selling it off as a new build?

hi

cant answer the other questions for you... but I must say the fact that they built over an old building is known, and was infact mentioned in the bangkok post a couple years back when the project was first launched. cant say if the info came directly from them, but it was definitely not with hled. also if I recall correctly, when my brother at the time he went to look at the place, asked the question, the sales lady didnt deny it. she didnt bring it up, but that is obviously not the kind of question they are trained to advertise. plus...I think its only some of the buildings that are old, not all 6 of them are. cant say for sure which are the new ones though

which is the other condo you mentioned looking at further down the street?

thanks

[Casanundra]

which is the other condo you mentioned looking at further down the street?

thanks

Naritiwas by the star group. It's just past the junction about 5 mins from Belle park on the way towards Rama III about 400 metres up from Tesco lotus

Edited November 6, 2006 by Casanundra

[MiG16]

Naritiwas by the star group. It's just past the junction about 5 mins from Belle park on the way towards Rama III about 400 metres up from Tesco lotus

thanks, will try to google for it. am still searching for a condo..but have almost difficult criteria

want somewhere reasonably inexpensive, yet not extremely far and buried in sub-sois of bangkok

[Casanundra]

Naritiwas by the star group. It's just past the junction about 5 mins from Belle park on the way towards Rama III about 400 metres up from Tesco lotus

thanks, will try to google for it. am still searching for a condo..but have almost difficult criteria

want somewhere reasonably inexpensive, yet not extremely far and buried in sub-sois of bangkok

In that case it would help if I spell it right for you. It is Star Estate @ Narathiwas

have a look at some pictures on Sky Scraper City to give you an idea of what it looks like

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=208392&page=5

[dsfbrit]

Letter not written by condo owner

136 Na Ranong Road, Klong Toey, Bangkok 10110, Thailand - fax:022403666 - email:[email protected]

The Oct 31 Postbag used a letter titled "Treated badly by condo developer" publishing a statement by Simon Green.

Contrary to this statement, Simon Green actually has never purchased a unit from Belle Park Residence and never lived in our condominium. All information presented by this person is based on lies and distortions.....

We do not claim to be perfect, but we pride ourselves on a remarkable service record. As of September, our response-time averaged three days for any complaints and we have a 95% customer satisfaction rate for defect services. This is an impressive service record by any standard for a property company in Thailand. We would like to further state that we pay close attention to all our customers' needs regardless of race or nationality.

...

Facts are Belle Park services more than 400 satisfied customers who have actually lived in Belle Park for some time.

NOPPAKOON POOMTHONGTROO, LAWYER

Bangkok

This was from todays Bangkok post

To be honest, if I were to write a letter of complaint to the Bangkok Post - about a condo in Bangkok that I currently lived in - I am not absolutely sure I would use my real name either.

I am also curious to know how these people know these incredibly precise statistics - I love it here in LOS, but I dont recall one of the things I marvel about the Thais being the ability to produce stats this accurate about something so mundane as condo maintenance.

I eagerly await 'Simon Green's' reply.

Edited November 6, 2006 by dsfbrit

[farang power]

Letter not written by condo owner

136 Na Ranong Road, Klong Toey, Bangkok 10110, Thailand - fax:022403666 - email:[email protected]

The Oct 31 Postbag used a letter titled "Treated badly by condo developer" publishing a statement by Simon Green.

Contrary to this statement, Simon Green actually has never purchased a unit from Belle Park Residence and never lived in our condominium. All information presented by this person is based on lies and distortions.

We would be pleased to listen to any misunderstandings that he may have with our project. Instead, he cowardly made up a fictional story to terrorise and harass our company and damage our reputation for his own personal gain and amusement.

We do not claim to be perfect, but we pride ourselves on a remarkable service record. As of September, our response-time averaged three days for any complaints and we have a 95% customer satisfaction rate for defect services. This is an impressive service record by any standard for a property company in Thailand. We would like to further state that we pay close attention to all our customers' needs regardless of race or nationality.

Facts are Belle Park services more than 400 satisfied customers who have actually lived in Belle Park for some time. They enjoy our services and facilities, such as our large free-form tropical pool, two tennis courts, Starbucks on site and the nearby international school.

We encourage anyone who may have any concerns or interest in Belle Park Residence to see for themselves by visiting our project. You will find a great environment and convenient location.

Belle Park Residence sincerely regrets any confusion for our customers and readers of this newspaper caused by the fictional letter. Our company will further investigate this matter and will take legal action to protect the company against any future harassment.

NOPPAKOON POOMTHONGTROO, LAWYER

Bangkok

This was from todays Bangkok post

Who are you?...

Are you the one that denied my wife to come in our own house? because her key card was broken and you didn't have any other to replace, and you told her she will have in 5 days, and the security (???) guards were not allowed to let her in, but she wasn't a foreigner, we buy this condo more than a year ago, so she had to sleep at her sister's house for five days, because YOU and your magnificent company didn't allow her to get in her own house, maybe she looked dangerous, yes sure, she was 8 month pregnant at that time...

But she was lucky to have a sister in Bangkok, if not she might be sleeping under the Taksin bridge.

And you too, were lucky because I was abroad....

Mr Green is absolutely right, he didn't said anything wrong, everything is true. BELLE PARK IS A REAL DISASTER. About the cracks, about the lifts, the facilities, the security personnel... and please write the advertisements in thai and in english please, everybody has the right to be informed.

have a nice day.