moving 90 % of all my Cash to Asia and Thailand + Step by Step + stay liquid?

[bluebluewater]

I have found it very easy to be invested and liquid if by liquid you mean you are able to get cash money for your day to day needs when you need it.

All of my money is invested in a brokerage in the American markets either in individual stocks, ETF's, REIT's, or mutual funds. I can do all things online with that account. Those investments create an income for me. I have a checking account that is tied into that brokerage account and with it comes an ATM card where all the ATM fees all over the world are reimbursed every month. Charles Schwab is the one I use.

When I need money I go to the ATM and get it. Usually 20K at a time. I would not dream about investing any money here. I do have a bank acct here with about 10K Bt in it but I never use it.

You are in the Elite programme?

If not please give the details of which visa/extension allows you to stay here with 10,000 baht in a bank account.

I am NOT in the Elite programme. What gave you that idea? A closer reading of the text would have revealed this to you.

[WorkingTourist]

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

[…]

In real terms, you are in the negative

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Example: LannaGuy buys condo for 1 million (10 years ago). Spends 200,000 baht on renovation etc.

Capital invested: 1,200,000 baht.

Rent is set to 10,000 baht/month and maintenance, management, vacancy, etc. cost 20% of the income.

So profit = 12 months × 10,000 baht × 80% = 96,000 baht/year.

Yearly return on investment is 96,000 / 1,200,000 = 8% p.a.

The only “gotcha” here is that when LannaGuy sells, he’ll need to sell at around 1.3 million to make up for the initial renovation costs, transfer fee, stamp duty, withholding tax, etc.

That comes out to a yearly condo appreciation of about 2.7% which is probably not entirely unlikely.

[LannaGuy]

I did exactly that and now only have my pension coming from Europe. Step by step over 8 years until my 2 houses were sold and money transferred. Obviously a FX account is first on the list. Personally I invested in condos for income and get around 8% net. Forget business but how old are you? don't even consider it under 50.

Oh, heres one now

You get 8% net do you? On condos

Explain to us how you think you get 8% net after all costs, when you have yet to sell them. Also explain to us what 8% of the buy price really is this year or next year.

Truth is, you dont really know what your average returns will be, what you think is 8% more like 2%

happy to explain oh wise one

1/ i dont sell

2/ 8% net is on rents

we WERE talking about RoI on rents right? but just in case you were wondering I just sold 3 units in Chiang Mai at 30%+ RoI

I have owned units for nearly a decade, yes 10 years, and most have paid 8% to 9% NET after agents, common area etc.

You sound like you don't wan't to believe it but it's true in fact i have increased my portfolio by millions but im in it for the monthly income of 8% NET PLUS

Oh dear.

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

Basically if investing in anything in the entire country was worth it, all the big investment funds, chinas big three banks would be all over it, which would for 1 push up rents with condos.

In real terms, you are in the negative

when did I say that?

I get 8% NET on my capital you know a better way? I sell my condos (around 18 of them over ten years or so) at 30% increase (i.e. I buy for whatever, renovate then sell for 30% more)

I have already said the game is much more difficult now and so I, and many friends, have stopped flipping condos like we used to.

I'm unclear how you could misunderstand? my condo's are higher end and I did not own 22 all at one time - I bought and sold over the ten years. I get an average of 8% net RoI on my rooms after deductions. When i sell it is normal for me to get 30%+ more than I paid INCLUDING all renos etc.

If you think I'm doing bad you must be doing REALLY well and much, much better than me and all my buddies so congrats but I'm happy and content enough.

EDIT:

Decided to use a 'real ' example:

I bought a room in a very well known condo for 2.3m in farang quota - I spent 600,000 renovations = 2,900,000

I rented it out for last 3 years at 22,000 a month - agents one month fee of 22,000 = 242,000 minus common area = 230,000 x 3 years = 690,000 minus some odd depreciation etc let's say = 650,000

I just sold this room to a farang for 3,800,000 and so I actually made 35% profit on this particular room PLUS 650,000 income for 3 years?

where am I going wrong???

Edited April 16, 2016 by LannaGuy

[bazza40]

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

[…]

In real terms, you are in the negative

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Example: LannaGuy buys condo for 1 million (10 years ago). Spends 200,000 baht on renovation etc.

Capital invested: 1,200,000 baht.

Rent is set to 10,000 baht/month and maintenance, management, vacancy, etc. cost 20% of the income.

So profit = 12 months × 10,000 baht × 80% = 96,000 baht/year.

Yearly return on investment is 96,000 / 1,200,000 = 8% p.a.

The only “gotcha” here is that when LannaGuy sells, he’ll need to sell at around 1.3 million to make up for the initial renovation costs, transfer fee, stamp duty, withholding tax, etc.

That comes out to a yearly condo appreciation of about 2.7% which is probably not entirely unlikely.

If you bought ten years ago, what you say may well be true. Assuming (1) 100% occupancy rate (2) the condo is still saleable because condo management has actually maintained the infrastructure.

For someone buying now with an oversupply of condos which are 25 sqm dogboxes, slapped together with toad s##t and sealing wax, I would submit it's a much riskier proposition. When you see condos in Pattaya advertised with 20 years retirement visa included in the sale price, it smacks of desperation.

[shirtless]

Dont worry mate your on a winner you will double your doh , give us a call

[LannaGuy]

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

[…]

In real terms, you are in the negative

How do you arrive at that conclusion?

Example: LannaGuy buys condo for 1 million (10 years ago). Spends 200,000 baht on renovation etc.

Capital invested: 1,200,000 baht.

Rent is set to 10,000 baht/month and maintenance, management, vacancy, etc. cost 20% of the income.

So profit = 12 months × 10,000 baht × 80% = 96,000 baht/year.

Yearly return on investment is 96,000 / 1,200,000 = 8% p.a.

The only “gotcha” here is that when LannaGuy sells, he’ll need to sell at around 1.3 million to make up for the initial renovation costs, transfer fee, stamp duty, withholding tax, etc.

That comes out to a yearly condo appreciation of about 2.7% which is probably not entirely unlikely.

If you bought ten years ago, what you say may well be true. Assuming (1) 100% occupancy rate (2) the condo is still saleable because condo management has actually maintained the infrastructure.

For someone buying now with an oversupply of condos which are 25 sqm dogboxes, slapped together with toad s##t and sealing wax, I would submit it's a much riskier proposition. When you see condos in Pattaya advertised with 20 years retirement visa included in the sale price, it smacks of desperation.

well you made me smile dude... you go your way and I'll go mine... I would not buy ANY of the new condo builds

good luck to all

[PT4]

Annuities are usually not for the financially astute. ... Some people might ... sleep better knowing they have the means to make it to the end, even past age 88.I

Good point, Eddie: not for the financially astute. Certainly not in present economic conditions.

Annuities are a kind of insurance. Annuities are a fine idea iff economic conditions are stable. But, now, economic conditions are very fragile and likely to get worse. I expect that many/most insurance companies will go broke in the economic "reset" on the horizon.

​

​For young people who desire to convert current savings into stable wealth, an annuity would put their wealth at risk of economic catastrophe. For old people, who desire to convert wealth into current income, same risk.

Edited April 16, 2016 by PT4

[williamgeorgeallen]

i had plans to invest in thailand as a long term resident. moved about half my cash over and had 10 condos over 2 properties. what a mistake, tiny returns and big head aches. i was lucky to sell out and get most of my money out. now i have my 2 houses back in nz and i dont do anything but take cash from my nz ATM card when required. listen to the advice here. leave your cash outside thailand. there are enough sob stories about loosing everything in thailand as it is.

[uthaithanirules]

I did exactly that and now only have my pension coming from Europe. Step by step over 8 years until my 2 houses were sold and money transferred. Obviously a FX account is first on the list. Personally I invested in condos for income and get around 8% net. Forget business but how old are you? don't even consider it under 50.

Oh, heres one now

You get 8% net do you? On condos

Explain to us how you think you get 8% net after all costs, when you have yet to sell them. Also explain to us what 8% of the buy price really is this year or next year.

Truth is, you dont really know what your average returns will be, what you think is 8% more like 2%

happy to explain oh wise one

1/ i dont sell

2/ 8% net is on rents

we WERE talking about RoI on rents right? but just in case you were wondering I just sold 3 units in Chiang Mai at 30%+ RoI

I have owned units for nearly a decade, yes 10 years, and most have paid 8% to 9% NET after agents, common area etc.

You sound like you don't wan't to believe it but it's true in fact i have increased my portfolio by millions but im in it for the monthly income of 8% NET PLUS

Oh dear.

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

Basically if investing in anything in the entire country was worth it, all the big investment funds, chinas big three banks would be all over it, which would for 1 push up rents with condos.

In real terms, you are in the negative

when did I say that?

I get 8% NET on my capital you know a better way? I sell my condos (around 18 of them over ten years or so) at 30% increase (i.e. I buy for whatever, renovate then sell for 30% more)

I have already said the game is much more difficult now and so I, and many friends, have stopped flipping condos like we used to.

I'm unclear how you could misunderstand? my condo's are higher end and I did not own 22 all at one time - I bought and sold over the ten years. I get an average of 8% net RoI on my rooms after deductions. When i sell it is normal for me to get 30%+ more than I paid INCLUDING all renos etc.

If you think I'm doing bad you must be doing REALLY well and much, much better than me and all my buddies so congrats but I'm happy and content enough.

EDIT:

Decided to use a 'real ' example:

I bought a room in a very well known condo for 2.3m in farang quota - I spent 600,000 renovations = 2,900,000

I rented it out for last 3 years at 22,000 a month - agents one month fee of 22,000 = 242,000 minus common area = 230,000 x 3 years = 690,000 minus some odd depreciation etc let's say = 650,000

I just sold this room to a farang for 3,800,000 and so I actually made 35% profit on this particular room PLUS 650,000 income for 3 years?

where am I going wrong???

Ok, first you say you dont sell, now you say you sold 18 of them.

That example you gave, do you think most people reading that are going to assume you offered up your best result, or your worst result. That example covers one, but what about the other 17.

Lets say that example is true, and I dont really doubt most of it. Isnt where you really succeeded mostly to do with the part of finding an idiot falang that was going to take it off your hands for 900,000 more three years later. Why didnt this guy just do the same thing you did

No mention of adjusting for inflation, or adjusting for exchange rates. 8 years ago was 2008, the GfC and Thailands crazy roller coaster inflation rates. This is how I know.

Adjusted for inflation 230,000 on 2,900,000 is not 8%.

With property the initial capital just sits there, that value doesnt compound regularly. Not only in real terms do you have to adjust for deflation of the capital, but the compound interest you are losing.

Then there are the exchange rates, transfers back to your home country, if any, sit and wait for the exchange rate to jump around, you can make an automatic 20% on something more liquid, without doing anything. Apart from all other economic pressures Thailands currency is seasonally dependant, as a big chunk of its economy is from tourism.

Lets say you did as well with the other 17, I can guarantee you still would have done better with things like ETFs and jumping around with the exchange rate.

Why are all your investments in Thailand? Why are they all in condos, you may have better skills in selling to other falangs. But the OP wont.

This thread is about advising a newbie on how to spend his money

Anyone thats had any experience in trying to deal with thai builders or thai handymen. Is going to think you are full of it, or if successful, you are really in the business of conning newbie falangs.

I know if I could poor over your books as it were, Id find out the truth, a truth you are probably not aware of

[lvr181]

A good investor spreads risk. Investment risk is not only asset classes but also POLITICAL!

Ask yourself how politically "stable" is Thailand compared to your home country or (in Asia) Singapore? Consider another western economy.

But hey, it is your money and you can lose it in any way you wish. Many have made a small fortune in Thailand OUT OF A LARGE ONE!

[NCC1701A]

I invested $4500 USD into my Thai girlfriend's hair salon. She is now making about 60, 000 baht a month. The only condition for investing the money was I never give her another penny. I figure I have saved myself millions of dollars making this investment. I am not joking and I hope this helps.

[alwaysrainsinUK]

My advise would be dont do any business in Thailand or move your money either its not an easy path at all..........

I dont know where your from but for me i built up a portfolio of houses in UK and live of the rents and also trade the Uk stock mkt but id air caution on the stocks if you have little experience in it

[LannaGuy]

I did exactly that and now only have my pension coming from Europe. Step by step over 8 years until my 2 houses were sold and money transferred. Obviously a FX account is first on the list. Personally I invested in condos for income and get around 8% net. Forget business but how old are you? don't even consider it under 50.

Oh, heres one now

You get 8% net do you? On condos

Explain to us how you think you get 8% net after all costs, when you have yet to sell them. Also explain to us what 8% of the buy price really is this year or next year.

Truth is, you dont really know what your average returns will be, what you think is 8% more like 2%

happy to explain oh wise one

1/ i dont sell

2/ 8% net is on rents

we WERE talking about RoI on rents right? but just in case you were wondering I just sold 3 units in Chiang Mai at 30%+ RoI

I have owned units for nearly a decade, yes 10 years, and most have paid 8% to 9% NET after agents, common area etc.

You sound like you don't wan't to believe it but it's true in fact i have increased my portfolio by millions but im in it for the monthly income of 8% NET PLUS

Oh dear.

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

Basically if investing in anything in the entire country was worth it, all the big investment funds, chinas big three banks would be all over it, which would for 1 push up rents with condos.

In real terms, you are in the negative

when did I say that?

I get 8% NET on my capital you know a better way? I sell my condos (around 18 of them over ten years or so) at 30% increase (i.e. I buy for whatever, renovate then sell for 30% more)

I have already said the game is much more difficult now and so I, and many friends, have stopped flipping condos like we used to.

I'm unclear how you could misunderstand? my condo's are higher end and I did not own 22 all at one time - I bought and sold over the ten years. I get an average of 8% net RoI on my rooms after deductions. When i sell it is normal for me to get 30%+ more than I paid INCLUDING all renos etc.

If you think I'm doing bad you must be doing REALLY well and much, much better than me and all my buddies so congrats but I'm happy and content enough.

EDIT:

Decided to use a 'real ' example:

I bought a room in a very well known condo for 2.3m in farang quota - I spent 600,000 renovations = 2,900,000

I rented it out for last 3 years at 22,000 a month - agents one month fee of 22,000 = 242,000 minus common area = 230,000 x 3 years = 690,000 minus some odd depreciation etc let's say = 650,000

I just sold this room to a farang for 3,800,000 and so I actually made 35% profit on this particular room PLUS 650,000 income for 3 years?

where am I going wrong???

Ok, first you say you dont sell, now you say you sold 18 of them.

That example you gave, do you think most people reading that are going to assume you offered up your best result, or your worst result. That example covers one, but what about the other 17.

Lets say that example is true, and I dont really doubt most of it. Isnt where you really succeeded mostly to do with the part of finding an idiot falang that was going to take it off your hands for 900,000 more three years later. Why didnt this guy just do the same thing you did

No mention of adjusting for inflation, or adjusting for exchange rates. 8 years ago was 2008, the GfC and Thailands crazy roller coaster inflation rates. This is how I know.

Adjusted for inflation 230,000 on 2,900,000 is not 8%.

With property the initial capital just sits there, that value doesnt compound regularly. Not only in real terms do you have to adjust for deflation of the capital, but the compound interest you are losing.

Then there are the exchange rates, transfers back to your home country, if any, sit and wait for the exchange rate to jump around, you can make an automatic 20% on something more liquid, without doing anything. Apart from all other economic pressures Thailands currency is seasonally dependant, as a big chunk of its economy is from tourism.

Lets say you did as well with the other 17, I can guarantee you still would have done better with things like ETFs and jumping around with the exchange rate.

Why are all your investments in Thailand? Why are they all in condos, you may have better skills in selling to other falangs. But the OP wont.

This thread is about advising a newbie on how to spend his money

Anyone thats had any experience in trying to deal with thai builders or thai handymen. Is going to think you are full of it, or if successful, you are really in the business of conning newbie falangs.

I know if I could poor over your books as it were, Id find out the truth, a truth you are probably not aware of

I didn't say that at all read all of my posts! I said I had been liquidating for years but I have no intention of selling the ones I now have. I have done well here and made 30%+ profits on ones I have sold and 8% net on all of them including the ones I now retain and am very happy thank you!

My comments were for this 'newbie' on how to spend his money. Buy a few well located condos and get 8% NET as many of us have done. Cheers.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to a disallowed site has been removed.

[CousinEddie]

There are thousands of horror stories from those that have invested in Thailand.

Before buying any property, read about the unfortunate investors on Samui that were evicted form their homes.

Foreigners who built expensive holiday and retirement homes on the Thai island of Koh Samui on ‘extendable leases’ leases have been kicked out and their property and their possessions seized.

Now their homes are being rented and sold to other foreigners.

GOOGLE: 'Foreigners evicted from Thai paradise island'

[PT4]

GOOGLE: 'Foreigners evicted from Thai paradise island'

Important enough for expats here, especially new expats, to be a thread topic by itself (without ever mentioning the name of the writer, of course).

Eddie, will you start a thread?

Edited April 17, 2016 by PT4

[PT4]

I invested $4500 USD into my Thai girlfriend's hair salon. She is now making about 60, 000 baht a month. The only condition for investing the money was I never give her another penny. I figure I have saved myself millions of dollars making this investment. I am not joking and I hope this helps.

Compliments on very creative idea. But I have to wonder how long "Star Trek fan" has been living in Thailand and how well he understands Thai thinking.

I'd say, wait 'till she is desperate for money for something else, maybe just to pay the rent on the salon during a slow month, or something like that. Then we'll see if she keeps her side of the "agreement" you made. I wouldn't bet on it.

Edited April 17, 2016 by PT4

[LannaGuy]

There are thousands of horror stories from those that have invested in Thailand.

Before buying any property, read about the unfortunate investors on Samui that were evicted form their homes.

Foreigners who built expensive holiday and retirement homes on the Thai island of Koh Samui on ‘extendable leases’ leases have been kicked out and their property and their possessions seized.

Now their homes are being rented and sold to other foreigners.

GOOGLE: 'Foreigners evicted from Thai paradise island'

Indeed there are 1000s of horror stories for people with 'extendable leases' and very good advice to avoid them like the plague!

[garyk]

Wow, this day and time if you move your assist here and INVEST here? You are playing with fire IMO.

[garyk]

There is a retirement planning book, "DIE BROKE."

Live out your days in comfort and bounce the check to the undertaker. and 30%

The guy recommends:

-Annuity that will pay you until the day you die.

-Reverse Mortgage that will pay you monthly & allow you to stay in your house until the day you die.

-Insurance. Have plenty of health/accident insurance.

Give money to your kids wen they are younger, to help them along instead of giving them their inheritance when they are 60 or 70 years old.

The profit margin on annuities varies between 15% and 30%, depending on which company is selling them. They employ teams of actuaries and financial experts to ensure the company comes out ahead.

Suppose you buy an annuity for $100,000 which gives an annual income of $5500 per year at age 70. That means you have to live at least until age 88 before you start to cost the company money. Even then, the company is still well ahead because it is making a return on the capital you have given it. Die before age 88, and the company gets more icing on the profit cake.

IMHO, and provided you are reasonably astute financially, living off your capital plus returns on investment is preferable. Annuitants are always going to get the short end of the stick.

when I retired early in UK i opted for a fixed annuity pension (which gives me a small part of my retirement income) I think it cost 130,000 GBP and gives me over 500 GBP a month for life so far I have received over 50,000 GBP and assume I'll live at least 20 more years but thinking about it, with lost interest, even after 30 year it'll only break even. I did it as there was little choice.

I had to think long and hard before I sold a annuity plan. I had two investments strategies. One the market, equities, mutual funds and one a annuity. After watching the market for a few year I sold the annuity. Right before maturity so I would not be hit with a penalty. I am happy with my decission.

I was sick for a few months, but now my tolerance level is getting stronger with investing. Not that I am any good at it, but my tolerance level is higher.. LOL

[uthaithanirules]

I did exactly that and now only have my pension coming from Europe. Step by step over 8 years until my 2 houses were sold and money transferred. Obviously a FX account is first on the list. Personally I invested in condos for income and get around 8% net. Forget business but how old are you? don't even consider it under 50.

Oh, heres one now

You get 8% net do you? On condos

Explain to us how you think you get 8% net after all costs, when you have yet to sell them. Also explain to us what 8% of the buy price really is this year or next year.

Truth is, you dont really know what your average returns will be, what you think is 8% more like 2%

happy to explain oh wise one

1/ i dont sell

2/ 8% net is on rents

we WERE talking about RoI on rents right? but just in case you were wondering I just sold 3 units in Chiang Mai at 30%+ RoI

I have owned units for nearly a decade, yes 10 years, and most have paid 8% to 9% NET after agents, common area etc.

You sound like you don't wan't to believe it but it's true in fact i have increased my portfolio by millions but im in it for the monthly income of 8% NET PLUS

Oh dear.

8% based on the initial purchase price ten years ago is not an 8% roi this year.

Basically if investing in anything in the entire country was worth it, all the big investment funds, chinas big three banks would be all over it, which would for 1 push up rents with condos.

In real terms, you are in the negative

when did I say that?

I get 8% NET on my capital you know a better way? I sell my condos (around 18 of them over ten years or so) at 30% increase (i.e. I buy for whatever, renovate then sell for 30% more)

I have already said the game is much more difficult now and so I, and many friends, have stopped flipping condos like we used to.

I'm unclear how you could misunderstand? my condo's are higher end and I did not own 22 all at one time - I bought and sold over the ten years. I get an average of 8% net RoI on my rooms after deductions. When i sell it is normal for me to get 30%+ more than I paid INCLUDING all renos etc.

If you think I'm doing bad you must be doing REALLY well and much, much better than me and all my buddies so congrats but I'm happy and content enough.

EDIT:

Decided to use a 'real ' example:

I bought a room in a very well known condo for 2.3m in farang quota - I spent 600,000 renovations = 2,900,000

I rented it out for last 3 years at 22,000 a month - agents one month fee of 22,000 = 242,000 minus common area = 230,000 x 3 years = 690,000 minus some odd depreciation etc let's say = 650,000

I just sold this room to a farang for 3,800,000 and so I actually made 35% profit on this particular room PLUS 650,000 income for 3 years?

where am I going wrong???

Ok, first you say you dont sell, now you say you sold 18 of them.

That example you gave, do you think most people reading that are going to assume you offered up your best result, or your worst result. That example covers one, but what about the other 17.

Lets say that example is true, and I dont really doubt most of it. Isnt where you really succeeded mostly to do with the part of finding an idiot falang that was going to take it off your hands for 900,000 more three years later. Why didnt this guy just do the same thing you did

No mention of adjusting for inflation, or adjusting for exchange rates. 8 years ago was 2008, the GfC and Thailands crazy roller coaster inflation rates. This is how I know.

Adjusted for inflation 230,000 on 2,900,000 is not 8%.

With property the initial capital just sits there, that value doesnt compound regularly. Not only in real terms do you have to adjust for deflation of the capital, but the compound interest you are losing.

Then there are the exchange rates, transfers back to your home country, if any, sit and wait for the exchange rate to jump around, you can make an automatic 20% on something more liquid, without doing anything. Apart from all other economic pressures Thailands currency is seasonally dependant, as a big chunk of its economy is from tourism.

Lets say you did as well with the other 17, I can guarantee you still would have done better with things like ETFs and jumping around with the exchange rate.

Why are all your investments in Thailand? Why are they all in condos, you may have better skills in selling to other falangs. But the OP wont.

This thread is about advising a newbie on how to spend his money

Anyone thats had any experience in trying to deal with thai builders or thai handymen. Is going to think you are full of it, or if successful, you are really in the business of conning newbie falangs.

I know if I could poor over your books as it were, Id find out the truth, a truth you are probably not aware of

I didn't say that at all read all of my posts! I said I had been liquidating for years but I have no intention of selling the ones I now have. I have done well here and made 30%+ profits on ones I have sold and 8% net on all of them including the ones I now retain and am very happy thank you!

My comments were for this 'newbie' on how to spend his money. Buy a few well located condos and get 8% NET as many of us have done. Cheers.

Ok

[uthaithanirules]

I invested $4500 USD into my Thai girlfriend's hair salon. She is now making about 60, 000 baht a month. The only condition for investing the money was I never give her another penny. I figure I have saved myself millions of dollars making this investment. I am not joking and I hope this helps.

60,000 baht, US $1700 dollars a month from a hair salon in Thailand.

Again, not necessarily doubting it. But assuming an average spend of 500 baht, that would have to be somewhere in the 30 clients a week range if you are talking gross, 3,4 times that if you are talking net.

If true, then it just means you lucked out and got the 1 in 10 thai girlfriend with some business acumen and is prepared to work 12 hrs 6 days a week

[MANFROMBOCA]

that being said moving all your money here would be a mistake and unless your going into a franchise business and plan on leaving it to someone,,, a business is out of the question , rental return with a declining western clientel is a bust these days, investing in the stock market 40% bond 60 stocks mixed intl and usa and 5% gold along with 1 years cash you can get on average a 6-9% return.. but if you have enough just to spend until your 100 do so and enjoy

but as many have said how old are you where do you come from and how much do you have, too many variables to give you an good answer

I have 80% stocks 20% cash. I am too heavy in stocks and may be too much cash, I need to balance my portfolio with bonds, may i ask what bonds do you hold now?

i have a lot of bonds and cd's they are laddered so at least one is maturing every 6 months going out 10 years... holding 20%cash right now os not a bad place to be if you cant find bonds you ike can take 30%of portfolio and put into prefferred share stocks that pay a good dividend and they tend to not fluctuate and hold thier value

[WorkingTourist]

There are thousands of horror stories from those that have invested in Thailand.

Before buying any property, read about the unfortunate investors on Samui that were evicted form their homes.

The advice can be summarized as: “Don’t buy a house or land because this is not allowed by Thai law. And regardless of what people tell you, there is no loophole, only questionable setups that operate in a legal grey zone, where you cannot expect the full support of the law if you run into problems.”

A condo on the other hand is fully legal to buy and own (as a foreigner) as long as it’s in the 49% foreigner quota, and I have yet to learn about anyone who had their condo confiscated or similar, as some TV posters insinuate has/can/will happen.

As for buying house/land, if you have a Thai wife, you can buy in her name, but it’ll be her property. The best construct to ensure you can stay there is a usefrukt, alternatively you can do a 30 year lease, but not any longer, and you cannot get any guarantee that the lease will be renewed after the 30 years (as that would be a violation of the law).

[WorkingTourist]

I invested $4500 USD into my Thai girlfriend's hair salon. She is now making about 60, 000 baht a month. The only condition for investing the money was I never give her another penny. I figure I have saved myself millions of dollars making this investment. I am not joking and I hope this helps.

That sounds like an impressive income, even if it’s gross. Can you reveal where in Thailand she has the salon and who she caters to (locals or tourists)?

Also a hint about the rent, i.e. I assume this is not in some upscale mall with lots of food traffic but unpayable rent

[WorkingTourist]

Adjusted for inflation 230,000 on 2,900,000 is not 8%.

With property the initial capital just sits there, that value doesnt compound regularly. Not only in real terms do you have to adjust for deflation of the capital, but the compound interest you are losing.

Then there are the exchange rates, transfers back to your home country, if any, sit and wait for the exchange rate to jump around, you can make an automatic 20% on something more liquid, without doing anything. Apart from all other economic pressures Thailands currency is seasonally dependant, as a big chunk of its economy is from tourism.

LannaGuy simply shared that over the last decade he had seen an 8% ROI for his condo rental business.

Exchange rates are irrelevant. The liquidity of the invested capital is irrelevant as well.

That the return is not reinvested for compound interests is also irrelevant for a ROI calculation. And it actually sounds like LannaGuy did reinvest his profit.

You’re coming at this like it was a witch hunt and at best grasping at straws.

Lets say you did as well with the other 17, I can guarantee you still would have done better with things like ETFs and jumping around with the exchange rate.

This is funny. You basically throw all your weight behind the argument that LannaGuy is mistaken about his 8% ROI, and then you go on to say that he could have made a better return on the stock market

It’s still irrelevant though, as LannaGuy did not claim that he had found the best investment vehicle, he was simply sharing what he had done the last decade, and how it has turned out for him.

For LannaGuy, he might have more domain knowledge about the rental business than the stock market, so for him the former exposes him to much less risk, hence it was the right choice. The S&P 500 is basically at the exact same level as a year ago, so with comission, anyone who invested in this index is likely in the red, but LannaGuy still got his predictable 8% return on his initially invested capital.

This thread is about advising a newbie on how to spend his money

Anyone thats had any experience in trying to deal with thai builders or thai handymen. Is going to think you are full of it, or if successful, you are really in the business of conning newbie falangs.

I know if I could poor over your books as it were, Id find out the truth, a truth you are probably not aware of

I don’t think there is really any general advice for people who want to “spend their money investing”, be it Thailand or anywhere else. What would you say to someone asking about how to invest their money in the U.S.? People who ask these questions are generally naive, they think because they have a small fortune they can now start to get a passive income, but you don’t get something for nothing, and you’ll have to put work into it, this means at the minimum some research.

As for Thai builders/handymen, it requires more work (and sometimes money) to get things done to a high quality/standard here, but it’s definitely not impossible. I suspect that many of those who think “you are full of it” are dealing with migrant workers that get 300 baht/day and live in sheds or worse. No wonder these people won’t finish your bathroom to a Western standard without a lot of supervision.

[williamgeorgeallen]

I invested $4500 USD into my Thai girlfriend's hair salon. She is now making about 60, 000 baht a month. The only condition for investing the money was I never give her another penny. I figure I have saved myself millions of dollars making this investment. I am not joking and I hope this helps.

if this is true it is the most successful thai girlfriend investment i have ever heard about. congratulations. my girl talked about starting a bar, i preferred to just pay her a salary to have kids. cheaper and more rewarding.

congratulations again. anyone else got a success story like this? they are pretty rare.

Edited April 17, 2016 by williamgeorgeallen

[Oxx]

The S&P 500 is basically at the exact same level as a year ago, so with comission, anyone who invested in this index is likely in the red, but LannaGuy still got his predictable 8% return on his initially invested capital.

So wrong. On a total return basis the S&P 500 returned 2.2% over the last year. You're also clearly completely clueless about the costs of investing in a low cost ETF - they are negligible.

Over a more meaningful time period, say 5 years the S&P 500 has returned 73.2%.

And as for "predictable 8% return" from property, it simply isn't predictable. There will be periods were a property is tenantless, so no income. It's also possible that a property will become blighted (e.g. a major local employer closes down), so there can be a severe loss of capital too.

[WorkingTourist]

The S&P 500 is basically at the exact same level as a year ago, so with commission, anyone who invested in this index is likely in the red, but LannaGuy still got his predictable 8% return on his initially invested capital.

So wrong. On a total return basis the S&P 500 returned 2.2% over the last year. You're also clearly completely clueless about the costs of investing in a low cost ETF - they are negligible.

You are right in that I forgot to include dividends (though I see only 2.11% excl. taxes for 2015). I am not “completely clueless” as for the costs of ETFs though. They are not free, and the index itself is down since a year ago, hence why I said “in the red”, but with dividends, yes, I was mistaken. But certainly not an 8% ROI, as the commenter I replied to made it sound like was a no-brainer to receive by investing in an ETF.

It is true that there are no guarantees with rentals either, my point was about risk/volatility when you know what you are doing versus putting your money in the stock market.

[Oxx]

The S&P 500 is basically at the exact same level as a year ago, so with commission, anyone who invested in this index is likely in the red, but LannaGuy still got his predictable 8% return on his initially invested capital.

So wrong. On a total return basis the S&P 500 returned 2.2% over the last year. You're also clearly completely clueless about the costs of investing in a low cost ETF - they are negligible.

You are right in that I forgot to include dividends (though I see only 2.11% excl. taxes for 2015).

I was rather remiss in not considering FX rates. Assuming that the 8% p.a. is based upon property in Thailand (it's not clear), he'd actually have been significantly better off investing in the S&P500 which in THB, total return terms actually returned 10.8% over the last 12 months.

(S&P has increased 2.19%. FX rate has changed from 32.36 to 35.08 - an 8.4% shift.)