Air con leaking gas?

[William C F Pierce]

An aircon does not use gas! It is a liquid that has a very low ambient temperature. It is used in refrigerators, aircons, air source and ground source heat pumps. There are many types of this refrigerant. Some are toxic and inflammable. Some are not and are environmentally friendly. The liquid refrigerant in any of the above mentioned systems, with a small increase in temperature, converts to a vapour and then converts back to a liquid in the cycle of operation. It is a closed loop system operating cold hot cold etc. So you need to make sure you have the correct refrigerant type for the make or model you are using.

Edited April 20, 2016 by metisdead
Bold font removed, again. Please stop using bold font when posting.

[Naam]

An aircon does not use gas! It is a liquid that has a very low ambient temperature. It is used in refrigerators, aircons, air source and ground source heat pumps. There are many types of this refrigerant. Some are toxic and inflammable. Some are not and are environmentally friendly. The liquid refrigerant in any of the above mentioned systems, with a small increase in temperature, converts to a vapour and then converts back to a liquid in the cycle of operation. It is a closed loop system operating cold hot cold etc. So you need to make sure you have the correct refrigerant type for the make or model you are using.

oh dear!

Edited April 20, 2016 by metisdead

[Berty100]

An aircon does not use gas! It is a liquid that has a very low ambient temperature. It is used in refrigerators, aircons, air source and ground source heat pumps. There are many types of this refrigerant. Some are toxic and inflammable. Some are not and are environmentally friendly. The liquid refrigerant in any of the above mentioned systems, with a small increase in temperature, converts to a vapour and then converts back to a liquid in the cycle of operation. It is a closed loop system operating cold hot cold etc. So you need to make sure you have the correct refrigerant type for the make or model you are using.

oh dear!

Anything wrong with William's explanation Naam?

I don't see anything wrong with it, but probably you can educate us further on the subject.

[Naam]

An aircon does not use gas! It is a liquid that has a very low ambient temperature. It is used in refrigerators, aircons, air source and ground source heat pumps. There are many types of this refrigerant. Some are toxic and inflammable. Some are not and are environmentally friendly. The liquid refrigerant in any of the above mentioned systems, with a small increase in temperature, converts to a vapour and then converts back to a liquid in the cycle of operation. It is a closed loop system operating cold hot cold etc. So you need to make sure you have the correct refrigerant type for the make or model you are using.

oh dear!

Anything wrong with William's explanation Naam?

I don't see anything wrong with it, but probably you can educate us further on the subject.

-the most used refrigerant in airconditioning is a medium which in its natural state is a gas (not gasoline!) if not pressurised and a liquid when compressed.

-refrigerants -as mentioned above- whether in their liquid or gaseous form, have no "own" temperature. the latter varies based on the various conditions during a cooling cycle. temperature variation can be -30ºC (after expansion) to +85ºC (after compression).

[Berty100]

An aircon does not use gas! It is a liquid that has a very low ambient temperature. It is used in refrigerators, aircons, air source and ground source heat pumps. There are many types of this refrigerant. Some are toxic and inflammable. Some are not and are environmentally friendly. The liquid refrigerant in any of the above mentioned systems, with a small increase in temperature, converts to a vapour and then converts back to a liquid in the cycle of operation. It is a closed loop system operating cold hot cold etc. So you need to make sure you have the correct refrigerant type for the make or model you are using.

oh dear!

Anything wrong with William's explanation Naam?

I don't see anything wrong with it, but probably you can educate us further on the subject.

-the most used refrigerant in airconditioning is a medium which in its natural state is a gas (not gasoline!) if not pressurised and a liquid when compressed.

-refrigerants -as mentioned above- whether in their liquid or gaseous form, have no "own" temperature. the latter varies based on the various conditions during a cooling cycle. temperature variation can be -30ºC (after expansion) to +85ºC (after compression).

I suggest you contact wikipedia then and inform them that they are WRONG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerant

A refrigerant is a substance or mixture, usually a fluid, used in a heat pump and refrigeration cycle. In most cycles it undergoes phase transitions from a liquid to a gas and back again.

I also think William expressed himself in a wrong way when he said low ambient temperature, as what he meant is that a refrigerant has a much lower boiling point than other FLUIDS

http://www.wisdompage.com/SEUhtmDOCS/3SE5.htm

It’s just that refrigerant fluids change from liquid to gas at temperatures and pressures suited to refrigeration purposes. Refrigerants, for instance, “boil” at a much lower temperature than water.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Berty100

[Naam]

A refrigerant is a substance or mixture, usually a fluid

next time when your aircon chap is at your home let him "pour" some of the "fluid" out of the pressurised container.

who or what is wikipedia?

[Berty100]

A refrigerant is a substance or mixture, usually a fluid

next time when your aircon chap is at your home let him "pour" some of the "fluid" out of the pressurised container.

who or what is wikipedia?

Last time I had the "chaps" from Daikin head office here to solve an issue, and they replaced the R-410A refrigerant in my airconditioner, they put the container upside down.

They explained to me that it only could be done like this, otherwise it would fill with the GAS inside the container, and the point actually was that it would fill with the liquid.

For that reason they also put the container on a weighting scale, to verify how much of the LIQUID they charged. To my knowledge a gas doesn't have a weight.

I understand your hesitance as an "expert" to recognize Wikipedia, but how about the REAL aircon experts?

http://www.achrnews.com/articles/90581-r-410a-charging-practices

There are plenty of similarities between the R-22 and -410A, both in operating characteristics and equipment. For example, R-410A unitary systems have the same superheat/subcooling levels as R-22. Many top trainers recognize that 410A's glide is minimal.

R-410A refrigerant must be removed from the drum in a liquid state. The two refrigerants that comprise it boil at close to the same temperature. Therefore, for slight leaks, R-410A can be topped off. Just make sure it's removed from the drum while it is in a liquid state.

If you are charging it into the low side of the system, remember that the liquid must be vaporized before it enters the suction line. Then check the system's performance.

Other refrigerants like theR-22A are also a liquid inside the container but are discharged as a gas

http://www.frigi-tech.com/media/Refrigeration_Basic.pdf

At 100°f R22 equals 198.4 PSI, so you would charge your system up until you “head pressure” was close to 198.4.

•If the unit has a sight glass check it for bubbles If it does If the unit has a sight glass, check it for bubbles. If it doeshave bubbles, add more refrigerant slowly until it clears

•Always charge refrigerant into the suction line as a vapor. This is done by keeping your refrigerant cylinder right side up. If your cylinder is on it’s side or upside down, you will be

charging liquid refrigerant and it could damage your compressor.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Berty100

[kannot]

Do you know for sure there is an actual leak ?. The guy who services our AC charges 500 Baht for a basic service per unit, if he was to top up the gas that we be an extra cost depending on how much was used.

Another AC man who is now retired told my wife he used to inform the customer the system was low on gas and connect the gas tank to the system and pretend to add the gas. I recon most people when told their system is low in gas just give the go ahead to top it up when they have no idea if gas has been added or not.

AC do not use gas anymore than a fridge does and you don't have to top that up. You know you have a leak when the unit does not run as cold and in the end just blowing air

So what is it that is leaking ?

his wallet

[kannot]

It seems to be a common con here for a/c maintenance guys to claim the gas is low and to 'top it up' without actually doing anything.

If the A/C was fitted properly it should never need more gas as it is a closed system. Any need for more gas means there is a leak which needs fixing.

PRECISELY!! ask em when they last filled their pick up aircon gas in their beat up ole truck

[Naam]

Last time I had the "chaps" from Daikin head office here to solve an issue, and they replaced the R-410A refrigerant in my airconditioner, they put the container upside down.

of course they do

-because the pressurised refrigerant is liquid,

-filling a system with a "Thai" container upright does not work.

-if the refrigerant was not released in a closed system it would immediately change into a gaseous state. that's why i suggested "let them pour some of the fluid".

-proper refrigerant containers (valve pipe down to the bottom) which don't have to be turned are unknown in Thailand. they are also much more expensive than the old cooking gas containers which are used here.

[Berty100]

Last time I had the "chaps" from Daikin head office here to solve an issue, and they replaced the R-410A refrigerant in my airconditioner, they put the container upside down.

of course they do

-because the pressurised refrigerant is liquid,

-filling a system with a "Thai" container upright does not work.

-if the refrigerant was not released in a closed system it would immediately change into a gaseous state. that's why i suggested "let them pour some of the fluid".

-proper refrigerant containers (valve pipe down to the bottom) which don't have to be turned are unknown in Thailand. they are also much more expensive than the old cooking gas containers which are used here.

So you finally agree that William's explanation was right to the point, and that you only wanted to show your superiority complex by being pedantic?

You still seem to miss the point though, which was explained in the link in my previous post, that some aircons the refrigerant needs to be charged as a gas, and other in liquid, depending on the type of refrigerant. But at the end of the day, a refrigerant is a liquid.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Berty100

[Naam]

i finally agree that i am not willing to waste precious time discussing the paintstroke of an old master with blind people.

[1BADDAT]

to my knowledge a gas doesn't have a weight.

well there you go. You have summed it up perfectly. Your knowledge is from Internet searches.

All solids, liquids, and gassed have weight. If you want to find out just look at a periodic table for a clue as to what each element weighs. Pressurized gasses are more dense and if they are pressurized enough at a certain temperature they will become a liquid.

[Naam]

to my knowledge a gas doesn't have a weight.

earth's athmospheric pressure is ~14.7psi / 1bar, i.e. talking about blind men is justified

[whaleboneman]

Last time I had the "chaps" from Daikin head office here to solve an issue, and they replaced the R-410A refrigerant in my airconditioner, they put the container upside down.

of course they do

-because the pressurised refrigerant is liquid,

-filling a system with a "Thai" container upright does not work.

-if the refrigerant was not released in a closed system it would immediately change into a gaseous state. that's why i suggested "let them pour some of the fluid".

-proper refrigerant containers (valve pipe down to the bottom) which don't have to be turned are unknown in Thailand. they are also much more expensive than the old cooking gas containers which are used here.

So you finally agree that William's explanation was right to the point, and that you only wanted to show your superiority complex by being pedantic?

You still seem to miss the point though, which was explained in the link in my previous post, that some aircons the refrigerant needs to be charged as a gas, and other in liquid, depending on the type of refrigerant. But at the end of the day, a refrigerant is a liquid.

You may want to read your wiki quote again as you're getting liquid and fluid mixed up.

A liquid is a fluid but a fluid is not necessarily a liquid.