UN: delegates set to sign historic climate change deal

[up2u2]

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

[eliotness]

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

What rot, there were no accurate global surface temperature measurements 100 years ago and in fact scientists in the 70s were talking about "the coming ice age".

[RickBradford]

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

Here we go again, "The Noble Defender of Truth".

I wonder how and when it was that these smug Green/Left people managed to persuade themselves: "I am one of the few wise people who knows the truth, and we underestimated just how dumb these dumb hicks who disagree with us really are. We just didn't get our message to them. They just stayed in their information bubble. We can't let the lying liars keep lying to these people — but how do we reach these idiots who only trust Fox News?"

Insufferable smugness, appalling ignorance, and a total lack of self-awareness -- an unsavory Green/Left cocktail.

[eliotness]

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

[RickBradford]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

As a taxpayer, I didn't laugh too long after the bill in the millions of dollars for the rescue of this Ship of Fools came in.

This virtue-signalling jaunt also blew the contingency budget of Australia’s Antarctic program for an entire season and disrupted its serious scientific work.

Of course, being Green means never having to say you're sorry.

[boomerangutang]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

[RickBradford]

^^

So much smugness, so little originality of thought.

Can you really not see beyond the repetitive refrain: "Right-wingers are dumb. They only watch Fox News. If they weren't so dumb, they would see we are right about everything, because we are smart."

You're not alone, though, that is the limit of so many Green/Left thought processes: "What I believe is good, therefore it must be right. I'm always right, and that makes me a wonderful person. I'm such a wonderful person, I must always be right. So what I believe in is good."

It's certainly how the people signing this silly climate change deal think (those of it who aren't in it for the money, that is.)

[eliotness]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

[boomerangutang]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

You're ranting. But ok, I'll take the bait, and address some of your concerns. I don't use air-con, I seldom take a plane ride (once every several years, tops). Whenever I possible, I bicycle or walk instead of using internal combustion motors. My water system is 100% solar driven, and the panels were bought 2nd hand. The tower I built for holding the panels is made from recycled materials. I mulch plants, so there's less need for water. I grow about 20% of my food (living alone), so that's less food that needs to be sprayed, packaged, shipped, refrigerated, etc.

As for your closing sentence, I've been mentioning as loud and clear as possible about the manifold problems of human populations.

How have you been doing?

Your opening sentence in retort, "What the heck has measles got to do with climate change(?)" Answer: the reason I mentioned that is to underline the anti-science bent of right wingers. Usually being anti-science doesn't do any real harm. However, being against immunizations, for example, can have dire repercussions for many others. Similar is happening in Taliban-held regions. Polio is almost eradicated ww, but there are a few pockets of right-wing Muslims who are keeping Polio virulent, by disrupting vaccinations.

Anti-science attitudes affect Global Warming in different ways. The repercussions are not as immediate (as anti-immunization trends), as it will take decades for warming to gain steam. Yet already, migrant crises are taking place in several regions (usually people fleeing drought-devastated regions), and they're only going to get worse as the years roll by. Coastal cities are more prone to flooding, year by year. And so it goes......

[up2u2]

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

What rot, there were no accurate global surface temperature measurements 100 years ago and in fact scientists in the 70s were talking about "the coming ice age".

In fact 99% of scientists were not. Such reports published in the Press were dismissed immediately. Same old misinformation over and over again.

[up2u2]

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

Here we go again, "The Noble Defender of Truth".

I wonder how and when it was that these smug Green/Left people managed to persuade themselves: "I am one of the few wise people who knows the truth, and we underestimated just how dumb these dumb hicks who disagree with us really are. We just didn't get our message to them. They just stayed in their information bubble. We can't let the lying liars keep lying to these people — but how do we reach these idiots who only trust Fox News?"

Insufferable smugness, appalling ignorance, and a total lack of self-awareness -- an unsavory Green/Left cocktail.

It's pretty simple a person just has to look at the actual Science and evidence of GW / CC. Also take the misinformation and propaganda published on Denier blogsites and refer back to the scientific opinion and it is pretty simple to find it is hogwash.

[up2u2]

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Munitions would have no impact on CO₂ levels.

Nothing unusual for ships to be trapped in ice flows. Your not going to start throwing snowballs around are you 'Senator Inhofe'

[up2u2]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

You will find the majority of Right Wingers finally have come around to the actual science of GW / CC. Just a few stragglers like you to round up. The vast majority of Nations have signed on to addressing GW and limiting it to under 2^Oc. Why don't you look up the global surface temperature data yourself? It is published on the Internet. Berkeley Earth, NASA GISS, UK Met, Japan Met. Instead of just looking at the misinformation and propaganda put out by the Fossil Fuel Industry on bloggsites why don't you look at the actual scientific evidence?

[eliotness]

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Munitions would have no impact on CO₂ levels.

Nothing unusual for ships to be trapped in ice flows. Your not going to start throwing snowballs around are you 'Senator Inhofe'

Are you really saying the manufacture of all the munitions and their use in all the 20th century wars had no effect on CO2 levels ? Wow that's one heck of an assumption, and then of course there's the 2 nuclear bombs + all the bomb tests by both right wing and left wing governments. As you are so "facts based" I would like to know which scientific papers you referenced to prove that assumption.

Sure it's not unusual for ships to be caught in ice-flows. My point was it was ironic that a team sent to observe retreating ice sheets got caught in an expanding one.

[eliotness]

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

What rot, there were no accurate global surface temperature measurements 100 years ago and in fact scientists in the 70s were talking about "the coming ice age".

In fact 99% of scientists were not. Such reports published in the Press were dismissed immediately. Same old misinformation over and over again.

I was an environmental scientist at that time, so I guess I was one of the 1%. Strange though, all the scientists I worked with all thought an ice-age was possible. It seems you've swallowed the propaganda hook line and sinker.

[eliotness]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

You will find the majority of Right Wingers finally have come around to the actual science of GW / CC. Just a few stragglers like you to round up. The vast majority of Nations have signed on to addressing GW and limiting it to under 2^Oc. Why don't you look up the global surface temperature data yourself? It is published on the Internet. Berkeley Earth, NASA GISS, UK Met, Japan Met. Instead of just looking at the misinformation and propaganda put out by the Fossil Fuel Industry on bloggsites why don't you look at the actual scientific evidence?

Your use of "right wing" is wrong and "left wing" is correct shows your political agenda and totally ignores the fact that 2 of the countries/governments that have caused the most environmental damage are left wing i.e. communist. Your arguments would be more believable if you dropped the obvious politics.

[stillbornagain]

It addresses the often cited falsehood that warming stopped in 1998.

It is not a "falsehood" -- it is an assertion backed by statistical analysis which is supported by, among others, the UK Meteorological Office.

There are many statistical analyses that can be done on temperature data since 1998 -- some ways of looking at the data show mild warming, others show no warming. No particular way is "right" or "wrong" -- that is the nature of statistics.

To go further and call it a "falsehood" is absurd and cultish.

But it exactly fits the smug Green/Left worldview: "My opinions are facts, whereas your facts are merely opinions."

What rot. over the past 100 years the global surface temperature has slowly risen and shows absolutely no sign of cooling any time soon. Polar caps and sea ice is melting, Greenland is melting oceans are warming and becoming more acidic, climates are changing, weather is becoming more extreme, sea levels are rising. You would have to have rocks in your head to ignore all the evidence.

What fits the Green/Left are the facts support their opinion. The Right is catching up slowly. It is tiresome having to drag Conservatives into the 21st Century time and time again on every issue.

What rot, there were no accurate global surface temperature measurements 100 years ago and in fact scientists in the 70s were talking about "the coming ice age".

In fact 99% of scientists were not. Such reports published in the Press were dismissed immediately. Same old misinformation over and over again.

I was an environmental scientist at that time, so I guess I was one of the 1%. Strange though, all the scientists I worked with all thought an ice-age was possible. It seems you've swallowed the propaganda hook line and sinker.

In fact, the overwhelming scientific consensus in the 1970's supported global warming. Not global cooling. http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-1970s-science-said-about-global-cooling.html You could actually look this kind of thing up instead of parroting obvious falsehoods.

[eliotness]

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Ice movements in Antarctica are complicated issues. With warming, added meltwater finds its way to lower parts of glacier, thereby acting as a lubricant between ice on top, and wet rock beneath. I don't want to interrupt your laughter, but it may have been a situation where a moving mass of ice got in their way. I don't laugh at peoples' plights unless I really know what they're going through.

Also, be careful not to fall into a crevasse like our anti-science bumbling friend Donald Trump. He stepped out of his gold-encrusted building and noticed how cold it was in NYC. That cold morning, to him, was proof that GW is a myth. That's the sort of simple-minded thinking that hamstrings deniers. Another issue is snow. Deniers think that snow = a cooling trend, or at least proof that the Earth is not warming on average. If they could think a bit deeper, they'd realize that snow is precipitation, and has little to do with temperatures. Antarctica is one of the driest places on Earth in terms of precipitation. Plus, what happens in NYC is not necessarily indicative of what's happening worldwide. It's a big world out there. NYC may be the center of a lot of human-based things, but it's a big city among thousands ww.

Here's another indication of how right-wingers are clumsy with science:

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control declared that measles had been eliminated in the U.S., but by 2014 Americans had resurrected it

(677 reported cases), and researchers from Emory University and Johns Hopkins set out to learn how--and recently found the dominant reason to be the purposeful decision by some Americans to refuse or delay widely-available vaccinations (especially for their children). (The researchers found similar conclusions about "whooping cough.") source: Slate.com, 3-25-2016

What the heck has measles got to do with climate change. Typical tree hugger trying to confuse the issue. So explain the 100 years of surface temperature measurement, starting in the middle of WW1, when the last thing on anyone's mind was climate change, through the Great Depression, WW2, Korea et al, not to mention Iraq. Thanks to you and your comrades I realise this is a pure left wing anti capitalist thing, and saving the planet is only a banner to hide behind. If you truely believed you would not own any electronic devices - just think of the environmental damage mining those rare earth minerals to make your phone and computer work. You would not eat meat because of the environmental damage caused by intensive livestock production. Most of the veg you eat has been sprayed with man-made chemicals. But in the meantime you and your comrades do not raise a whisper about the ever increasing human population. Over 12 billion by 2100 - there's not enough caves for everyone to live in !

You're ranting. But ok, I'll take the bait, and address some of your concerns. I don't use air-con, I seldom take a plane ride (once every several years, tops). Whenever I possible, I bicycle or walk instead of using internal combustion motors. My water system is 100% solar driven, and the panels were bought 2nd hand. The tower I built for holding the panels is made from recycled materials. I mulch plants, so there's less need for water. I grow about 20% of my food (living alone), so that's less food that needs to be sprayed, packaged, shipped, refrigerated, etc.

As for your closing sentence, I've been mentioning as loud and clear as possible about the manifold problems of human populations.

How have you been doing?

Your opening sentence in retort, "What the heck has measles got to do with climate change(?)" Answer: the reason I mentioned that is to underline the anti-science bent of right wingers. Usually being anti-science doesn't do any real harm. However, being against immunizations, for example, can have dire repercussions for many others. Similar is happening in Taliban-held regions. Polio is almost eradicated ww, but there are a few pockets of right-wing Muslims who are keeping Polio virulent, by disrupting vaccinations.

Anti-science attitudes affect Global Warming in different ways. The repercussions are not as immediate (as anti-immunization trends), as it will take decades for warming to gain steam. Yet already, migrant crises are taking place in several regions (usually people fleeing drought-devastated regions), and they're only going to get worse as the years roll by. Coastal cities are more prone to flooding, year by year. And so it goes......

I was part of an organisation that raised many millions of $s for the polio eradication. It's failure in certain countries was because of religious nutters. The rejection of immunisation in the West was not a political thing, it was caused by ignorance and some misleading information released by scientists.

I do admire your green credentials and you are doing your bit setting an example, although it would be difficult for everyone to do similar without massive government support, which unfortunately ain't going to happen.

As for the migrant crisis being mainly due to people fleeing drought affected areas, oops and I thought it was because of conflict and chances to earn more money. All because of over-population.

[stillbornagain]

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Munitions would have no impact on CO₂ levels.

Nothing unusual for ships to be trapped in ice flows. Your not going to start throwing snowballs around are you 'Senator Inhofe'

Are you really saying the manufacture of all the munitions and their use in all the 20th century wars had no effect on CO2 levels ? Wow that's one heck of an assumption, and then of course there's the 2 nuclear bombs + all the bomb tests by both right wing and left wing governments. As you are so "facts based" I would like to know which scientific papers you referenced to prove that assumption.

Sure it's not unusual for ships to be caught in ice-flows. My point was it was ironic that a team sent to observe retreating ice sheets got caught in an expanding one.

Once again, massive ignorance of planet is on display. in this case, someone who has confused the North and South poles. Ice is disappear from the Northern end of the planet because it's an ocean. No land mass. On the southern end we have a continent called antartica with a huge ice shelf that extends from the continent. There the ice regularly retreats then expands.

[eliotness]

Therefore, Mr Stillbornagain, correct me if I'm wrong, melting sea ice should have no effect on sea levels, e.g. half fill a glass with water, top up to the top with ice, when that floating ice melts there will be no change in the water level in the glass. OK, but not sure about the Greenland ice. The Southern ice-cap is a different story and as you say the ice sheets keep expanding and retreating on a regular basis.

[boomerangutang]

Your use of "right wing" is wrong and "left wing" is correct shows your political agenda and totally ignores the fact that 2 of the countries/governments that have caused the most environmental damage are left wing i.e. communist. Your arguments would be more believable if you dropped the obvious politics.

Communism could be considered "right wing" depending on the prism it's viewed from. Perhaps liberal and conservative are better words to use in this context. I consider 'right wing' to signify non-pliable, stuck-in-old-patterns, similar to conservatives. Liberal thinking is pliable, open to new concepts. Liberals are usually, but not always, lefties. But all that is semantics. It's the language that keeps peoples' heads stuck in the mud.

Alternative and relatively clean ways to generate electricity/power are being refined weekly. Personally, I like concentrated solar. PV solar is ok (and I use it) but Concentrated is better at large/municipal scale. Thailand hasn't figured that out yet. It's got some PV arrays, and that's commendable, but hopefully in the coming decades, Thais will appreciate better solar methods. Needless to say, Thais aren't doing any vanguard research, so they will have to rely on farang findings. Tonopah in California now has the world's largest functional concentrated solar plant. It uses molten salt, and has figured a way to keep power generating for many days of no sun. California is also at the forefront of storing energy by using compressed air.

There are other very promising developments with alternatives to coal/nuclear/fossil fuels, but all innovations are coming out of Europe, Australia/NZ, and N.America. Asians are behind the curve by about 20 years. Plus, when they do install farang innovations, they'll have to (or should) pay royalties to farang innovators/inventors. Ha ha, we know how well that would work, eh?

As for the migrant crisis being mainly due to people fleeing drought affected areas, oops and I thought it was because of conflict and chances to earn more money. All because of over-population.

As we know, there are several reasons for mass migrations. Drought is one of the main ones. Look at where the immigrants are coming from - who are streaming into Europe: the M.East and N.Africa, also Pakistan, Afghanistan, and NE Africa and Saharan regions. All are experiencing crippling drought of Biblical dimensions. Every time you see a photo of the Middle east, do you ever see any forests or green fields? Never. You see sand and rubble, with maybe a sad little dried succulent, if you're lucky. Farmers in those regions can't even grow drought-tolerant crops like pomegrantes or dates, ....it's getting so bad. What doesn't die from drought, will get eaten by skinny little goats with ribs showing. Even weeds won't grow in those regions. Most of the migrants are desperate to get to Europe because they have a chance of surviving there. Europe still has green grass and trees. It also has jobs, welfare, and welcoming people. the opposite, for example, of places like the Arabian Peninsula or Algeria, which is right next door. Too bad some of the kids of migrants will grow up to blow up their hosts, but that's another topic.

[stillbornagain]

Therefore, Mr Stillbornagain, correct me if I'm wrong, melting sea ice should have no effect on sea levels, e.g. half fill a glass with water, top up to the top with ice, when that floating ice melts there will be no change in the water level in the glass. OK, but not sure about the Greenland ice. The Southern ice-cap is a different story and as you say the ice sheets keep expanding and retreating on a regular basis.

Not sure about Greenland? In Greenland the glaciers are retreating rapidly. Where do you think that water goes? Into the ocean. What exactly are you not sure about? And it's not only Greenland. All around the world the glaciers are in retreat. All that water flowing into the sea. And not just that. The oceans are getting warmer. As the oceans get warmer, the water expands in volume. It's called thermal expansion.

And what's more, why are the glaciers in retreat all around the world? Is it because

a) the world is getting colder

the world is staying the same temperature

c) the world is getting warmer

[up2u2]

Just a point to consider: has anyone worked out the "carbon emissions" from all the wars over the last 102 years. The amount of munitions expended has been huge. Maybe the greens should blame the military for the increase in CO2 rather than industry ! Remember, it was the same politicians who start wars that are now declaring they want to save the planet.

I laughed out loud when that party of "environmentalists" sailed from Australia to witness the vanishing southern ice cap and got stuck in an expanding ice sheet, so ironic ! It took 2 ice-breakers to free them ?

Munitions would have no impact on CO₂ levels.

Nothing unusual for ships to be trapped in ice flows. Your not going to start throwing snowballs around are you 'Senator Inhofe'

Are you really saying the manufacture of all the munitions and their use in all the 20th century wars had no effect on CO2 levels ? Wow that's one heck of an assumption, and then of course there's the 2 nuclear bombs + all the bomb tests by both right wing and left wing governments. As you are so "facts based" I would like to know which scientific papers you referenced to prove that assumption.

Sure it's not unusual for ships to be caught in ice-flows. My point was it was ironic that a team sent to observe retreating ice sheets got caught in an expanding one.

Why don't you research whether munitions effect CO₂ levels? Explosives are generally Nitrous based. Nuclear bombs are atomic based so I don't think they would effect CO₂ levels. I have never come across it being mentioned or referred too in scientific literature (as opposed too Denier bloggsites).

Not unusual for sea ice to shift on currents and wedge a ship and require icebreakers to come in and drag them out.

[up2u2]

Therefore, Mr Stillbornagain, correct me if I'm wrong, melting sea ice should have no effect on sea levels, e.g. half fill a glass with water, top up to the top with ice, when that floating ice melts there will be no change in the water level in the glass. OK, but not sure about the Greenland ice. The Southern ice-cap is a different story and as you say the ice sheets keep expanding and retreating on a regular basis.

Oh dear. Antarctic and Greenland are similar systems. Both are the main contributors to sea level rises. Antarctic and Greenland sea ice is formed from sea water so it has no effect on sea level increases. However, the land ice and Glacial ice does. ALL Glaciers on the eastern side of Antarctica have reached the point of no return. They will now gradually melt into the sea including trillions and trillions of metric tonnes of land ice. Same goes for Greenland ALL Glaciers are in full retreat and as with Antarctica the land ice is also thinning. In Greenland there is also the Albedo effect caused from particulate matter from burning Fossil Fuels and landing on the ice. Instead of being white and reflecting sunlight it is black (black ice) and absorbs sunlight causing it to melt. Also adding to sea level increase is, as 97% of the heat from excess CO₂ goes into the oceans the oceans become warmer as they warm the water expands causing sea levels to rise. The Arctic works under a different system. The last Arctic Summer sea ice extent was the lowest ever recorded. Arctic sea is formed by precipitation falling in the Arctic and freezing during summer it then breaks up and melts. The past 4 years the Arctic pressure systems have collapsed due to Earth heating up unevenly sending polar vortexes through Canada and the US. So snow that should have fallen in the Arctic fell over Canada and Mid US. The Arctic is losing some 11% of ice per decade so in 30 years 33% of Arctic sea and land ice will be in the oceans. As it moves south it hits warmer temperatures and falls as rain flooding Texas and into Mexico. Some of the snow ball Senator Inhofe threw in Congress should actually have fallen in the Arctic not in Washington. Of course the GW / CC science totally escapes him because he's an idiot.

Then there is the real scary part. If the oceans warm too much they thaw the Methane ice slurries in the Arctic and that is released into the atmosphere. Then it is game over for humans. The earth will go in but most life will not exist.

In the last mass extinction Northern hemisphere volcanic cracks poured trillions and trillions of tons of molten lava into the oceans heating them up. Eventually the Methane ice slurries melted and Methane gas was pumped into the atmosphere. At first the earth cooled but when the volcanic clouds settled to earth the Greenhouse gas Methane sent surface temperatures souring and wiped out 99% of all living creatures on Earth.

We can pollute the Earth but there are consequences.

[eliotness]

So from what has been said by the more vocal posters "we are all doomed". I don't see that a few politicians signing some Accord at the UN is going to make even the slightest difference to the Armageddon predicted in this thread. Man is harming the planet in an unsustainable way (please guys, the possible effect on climate is only one aspect of that harm, you can't focus on just one) and is breeding at an unsustainable rate too. So what to do ?

Well I for one will sit down with my ice-cold beer, with the aircon on and think "well it was nice while it lasted".

Those of you who think you can change human nature, well good luck to you, enjoy your dream before the nightmare you predict arrives

[boomerangutang]

Therefore, Mr Stillbornagain, correct me if I'm wrong, melting sea ice should have no effect on sea levels, e.g. half fill a glass with water, top up to the top with ice, when that floating ice melts there will be no change in the water level in the glass. OK, but not sure about the Greenland ice. The Southern ice-cap is a different story and as you say the ice sheets keep expanding and retreating on a regular basis.

Not sure about Greenland? In Greenland the glaciers are retreating rapidly. Where do you think that water goes? Into the ocean. What exactly are you not sure about? And it's not only Greenland. All around the world the glaciers are in retreat. All that water flowing into the sea. And not just that. The oceans are getting warmer. As the oceans get warmer, the water expands in volume. It's called thermal expansion.

And what's more, why are the glaciers in retreat all around the world? Is it because

a) the world is getting colder

b. the world is staying the same temperature

c) the world is getting warmer

I know the struggle, stillbornagain. Sometimes it feels like we're talking to first graders.

Even if I didn't believe the vast majority of scientists who are studying these things, I would still be convinced of a warming planet, when I hear first hand accounts from people who live and travel at/near the poles, including Greenland and mountainous regions (Alps, Himalaya's, Andes, Rockies, Sierra Nevada, etc). Without exception, those folks are all telling stories of melting/retreating ice and warming trends. There's no reason for them to lie.

[boomerangutang]

So from what has been said by the more vocal posters "we are all doomed". I don't see that a few politicians signing some Accord at the UN is going to make even the slightest difference to the Armageddon predicted in this thread. Man is harming the planet in an unsustainable way (please guys, the possible effect on climate is only one aspect of that harm, you can't focus on just one) and is breeding at an unsustainable rate too. So what to do ?

Well I for one will sit down with my ice-cold beer, with the aircon on and think "well it was nice while it lasted".

Those of you who think you can change human nature, well good luck to you, enjoy your dream before the nightmare you predict arrives

I don't say "We are all doomed." Warming will actually be advantageous for some. We are but one species out of millions. I care as much for other species as I do for humans. If human population numbers crashed to 1/50th what they are today, it would astound me, but it wouldn't bum me out. I'm only going to be around for two or three decades more, max. I purposefully stopped at one child, though could have easily sired twenty (yes, I've dallied around). I consciously didn't want to add to overpopulation.

As you alluded to, nearly every poster on this thread has access to air-con, cold drinks, and reasonably comfortable lifestyles. We are the exception, not the norm. Most people in the world are struggling to make ends meet day to day. Those are the sorts who will be adversely affected by a warming world. Not people like us who, if living conditions are uncomfortable, can add another air-con unit, or go to hang at the pool, or pick up and move to a place where it's easier to live. Most people in the world have no hope of doing that. That's why people migrations are gaining in momentum each year. I have a hill tribe friend up here in northern Thailand whose ramshackle house floods two months of each year. he has a wife and two little girls. I ask him "can't you ask the village headman to give you a better place to put your house?" He's so dirt poor that it's all he can do to just keep trying to survive at the Lil' Abner shack he's in. He's actually better off than hundreds of millions of poor people worldwide. People that Donald Trump would call losers. They can barely scrape together 30 baht to go get a little bit of rice for their family at the local store. They're the majority types who are and will increasingly get screwed when deserts keep expanding and seas keep rising and water aquifers dry up or become salty (which is a BIG BIG problem in parts of India and elsewhere). There's a giant aquifer in the Middle of the USA which is drying up fast. Not getting replenished. There's another giant aquifer in eastern Australia which has become polluted from radioactivity from a mining operation. The list of calamities goes on and on.............

[thaibeachlovers]

Just how do they expect to slow the imaginary warming rate? More money more meetings? Never before in the history of the human race has there been so many idiots clumped together in one place. If they really wanted to do something for the planet earth they should get tough on the Asian countries burning off crop stubble and creating the haze that covers vast areas every year. This would make more sense. Maybe after they all sign this so called deal to slow climate warming they could start a new agreement to stop all volcanoe's errupting and creating more damage to the climate than CO2 ever does. Maybe they should go back to school and study just what CO2 does. It supports life and has absolutely nothing to do with climate change. Really stupid politicians, maybe they can start WW111 as it seems they are so stupid its quite on the cards.

Volcanoes cause Global cooling not warming. They emit trillions of tons of aerosol particulates into the upper Troposphere that reflect sunlight back into space. Burning of crops stubble produces particulate matter into the lower sea level atmosphere (where we breath). Nothing really to do with CO2 levels and is regional so requires a regional solution not a Global Solution. Maybe you need to go back to school. CO2 is one of the Greenhouse gasses that contribute an increase in Earth's temperature by +30⁰c without it we freeze solid with too much it becomes a pollutant and elevates Earth's temperatures where most of the human race would not survive. Although CO2 is a key element in plant photosynthesis Earth's vegetation can only absorb natural occurring CO2 plus a small proportion of man made CO2. CO2 introduced by man burning Fossil Fuels is easily identifiable and quantifiable as it has a different Carbon14 Isotope attached.

It would seem the stupid politicians may have a better grasp of the actual basic science on Global Warming / Climate Change than you appear to demonstrate.

If politicians actually believed it was possible to reverse CC they would do something to change it. As they have not, and are not going to do anything that will change CC ( which is impossible anyway ) they obviously do not believe it can be changed.

There is a difference between reducing pollution, recycling and building renewable energy sources and reducing CC. Those are an admirable goal and would make life better for all, but will do ZERO to stop CC.

If Obama believed in the rhetoric he'd stop using AF1, and if governments believed in it they'd stop private cars being sold, stop mass air travel and build nuclear power stations and electric railways.

[arjunadawn]

Never heard of wattsupwiththat, and doubt I would visit. A stickler for quotations, I would hardly use another's work without citing it. That you used "denier" rendered the remainder of your post... well, unread.

The third link in your list is this: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/22/seven-earth-day-predictions-that-failed-spectacularly/

Looks like wattsupwiththat.com to me.

That's what I thought SB.

I rather poke myself in the eye with a stick than cite Anthony Watts.

Wow. Great point. I did not realize who that was and equally did not realize that i cited it. Hard to look smart when one does something so stupid. In truth, I was unaware of that site at the post. I mostly do not care what site has what information, if it is true or speaks self evidently. There is no reason now or then for me to obfuscate using a site... I just didnt know. But this is a great poke in my eye!

[arjunadawn]

Just how do they expect to slow the imaginary warming rate? More money more meetings? Never before in the history of the human race has there been so many idiots clumped together in one place. If they really wanted to do something for the planet earth they should get tough on the Asian countries burning off crop stubble and creating the haze that covers vast areas every year. This would make more sense. Maybe after they all sign this so called deal to slow climate warming they could start a new agreement to stop all volcanoe's errupting and creating more damage to the climate than CO2 ever does. Maybe they should go back to school and study just what CO2 does. It supports life and has absolutely nothing to do with climate change. Really stupid politicians, maybe they can start WW111 as it seems they are so stupid its quite on the cards.

Volcanoes cause Global cooling not warming. They emit trillions of tons of aerosol particulates into the upper Troposphere that reflect sunlight back into space. Burning of crops stubble produces particulate matter into the lower sea level atmosphere (where we breath). Nothing really to do with CO2 levels and is regional so requires a regional solution not a Global Solution. Maybe you need to go back to school. CO2 is one of the Greenhouse gasses that contribute an increase in Earth's temperature by +30⁰c without it we freeze solid with too much it becomes a pollutant and elevates Earth's temperatures where most of the human race would not survive. Although CO2 is a key element in plant photosynthesis Earth's vegetation can only absorb natural occurring CO2 plus a small proportion of man made CO2. CO2 introduced by man burning Fossil Fuels is easily identifiable and quantifiable as it has a different Carbon14 Isotope attached.

It would seem the stupid politicians may have a better grasp of the actual basic science on Global Warming / Climate Change than you appear to demonstrate.

If politicians actually believed it was possible to reverse CC they would do something to change it. As they have not, and are not going to do anything that will change CC ( which is impossible anyway ) they obviously do not believe it can be changed.

There is a difference between reducing pollution, recycling and building renewable energy sources and reducing CC. Those are an admirable goal and would make life better for all, but will do ZERO to stop CC.

If Obama believed in the rhetoric he'd stop using AF1, and if governments believed in it they'd stop private cars being sold, stop mass air travel and build nuclear power stations and electric railways.

Its pretty clear volcanism is variously responsible for both warming and cooling; it just depends (example: difference between submerged eruptions or not). There is some pretty clear evidence of drastic warming secondary to or concurrent with exception volcanism triggering the younger dryas/bringing us out of the younger dryas. At first glance I agree, seems like heating only. Its not. In any event, as an update on 28 April 2016, it continues to be clear the science does not remotely support the political agenda of "Climate Change."