Obama says EU membership makes Britain great

[Grouse]

Tell the big useless sod to keep his nose out of Brit affairs and sort out his own house.

There is a string of US and other Allied war cemeteries starting at Normandy stretching probably all the way to Berlin which suggests neither he, nor any other US (and allied leader) have to keep his nose out of this one.

As an Australian, it would be a pleasure to see Britain leave the EU so I can see those ashen faced performances of British trade negotiators as they go cap in hand to all their major trade partners for a trade agreement only to be told to get to the back of the line. It would be exquisite to watch the little englander's who lobbied for a Brexit looking to find a reason why a trade agreement might take 10 or so years to arrive at, and when you do eventually get there, look for explanations on why it will be sub-optimal to the one which being part of the EU affords you.

It would be extra sweet given it was the Brits with little sympathy cut out Australian, NZ, SA, Canada out of its trade arrangements abruptly in 1971 leaving us in the lurch, and which has taken many of us 30 to 40 years to repair -all at a disadvantage of not being part of a trading block.

But that is me as an Australian.

As an economist, I'd tell you you were daft. Being part of a major trading block is what it is all about. It gives you a level of influence that you'd never get being on your own. You are the top two or three influencers in the EU, and with that the ability to steer and advantage from that market is something not to be sneezed at.

So Obama has a point, it magnifies your influence.

So you are bitter because you feel betrayed by something that happened 45 years ago?

I would like to point out that TRADE is not the only talking point about whether Great Britain stays or opts out.

GB is literally on it's knees because of many reasons, all caused by the spineless governments we have had since 1990

We used to have a backbone the envy of the world for a nation of the size of Florida

Now we just bow down to all and sundry in fear of being labelled racist. It is St George's day today yet people are scared to fly the cross in case they are labelled racist. Another govt/council decision as to not upset whining minorities

I would love to answer Grouse in respect of what has gone wrong or failed under the EU, but I think electricity will have run out by the time I had listed everything!

I urge you to do so!

Incidentally I abhor PC, so we can at least agree on that

I would like see St George Criss fly atop every church

I am an aetheist but schools should celebrate nativity.

I could go on

[samran]

Tell the big useless sod to keep his nose out of Brit affairs and sort out his own house.

There is a string of US and other Allied war cemeteries starting at Normandy stretching probably all the way to Berlin which suggests neither he, nor any other US (and allied leader) have to keep his nose out of this one.

As an Australian, it would be a pleasure to see Britain leave the EU so I can see those ashen faced performances of British trade negotiators as they go cap in hand to all their major trade partners for a trade agreement only to be told to get to the back of the line. It would be exquisite to watch the little englander's who lobbied for a Brexit looking to find a reason why a trade agreement might take 10 or so years to arrive at, and when you do eventually get there, look for explanations on why it will be sub-optimal to the one which being part of the EU affords you.

It would be extra sweet given it was the Brits with little sympathy cut out Australian, NZ, SA, Canada out of its trade arrangements abruptly in 1971 leaving us in the lurch, and which has taken many of us 30 to 40 years to repair -all at a disadvantage of not being part of a trading block.

But that is me as an Australian.

As an economist, I'd tell you you were daft. Being part of a major trading block is what it is all about. It gives you a level of influence that you'd never get being on your own. You are the top two or three influencers in the EU, and with that the ability to steer and advantage from that market is something not to be sneezed at.

So Obama has a point, it magnifies your influence.

So you are bitter because you feel betrayed by something that happened 45 years ago?

I would like to point out that TRADE is not the only talking point about whether Great Britain stays or opts out.

GB is literally on it's knees because of many reasons, all caused by the spineless governments we have had since 1990

We used to have a backbone the envy of the world for a nation of the size of Florida

Now we just bow down to all and sundry in fear of being labelled racist. It is St George's day today yet people are scared to fly the cross in case they are labelled racist. Another govt/council decision as to not upset whining minorities

I would love to answer Grouse in respect of what has gone wrong or failed under the EU, but I think electricity will have run out by the time I had listed everything!

Reading your post here, it ain't me who is bitter about the past, present, or future.

[Dixie Normus]

Samran makes a good point about how long it would take for any new trade deals, would the UK be better off? The truth is nobody knows what will happen if the UK exits but one thing you can count on is that there is no way a French/German led EU will be doing any sweet deals on trade or anything else with the UK that might make other EU nations like Sweden for example, think about jumping ship. They will look to punish the UK for leaving 'the club'. Greece thought that they could play the we are leaving card and get whatever they wanted and Germany played hard ball with them and they ended up with a worse deal than was offered to them before. I think Brexit would initially be very detrimental to the economy any recovery in the UK after that though who knows?

[Grouse]

Tell the big useless sod to keep his nose out of Brit affairs and sort out his own house.

There is a string of US and other Allied war cemeteries starting at Normandy stretching probably all the way to Berlin which suggests neither he, nor any other US (and allied leader) have to keep his nose out of this one.

As an Australian, it would be a pleasure to see Britain leave the EU so I can see those ashen faced performances of British trade negotiators as they go cap in hand to all their major trade partners for a trade agreement only to be told to get to the back of the line. It would be exquisite to watch the little englander's who lobbied for a Brexit looking to find a reason why a trade agreement might take 10 or so years to arrive at, and when you do eventually get there, look for explanations on why it will be sub-optimal to the one which being part of the EU affords you.

It would be extra sweet given it was the Brits with little sympathy cut out Australian, NZ, SA, Canada out of its trade arrangements abruptly in 1971 leaving us in the lurch, and which has taken many of us 30 to 40 years to repair -all at a disadvantage of not being part of a trading block.

But that is me as an Australian.

As an economist, I'd tell you you were daft. Being part of a major trading block is what it is all about. It gives you a level of influence that you'd never get being on your own. You are the top two or three influencers in the EU, and with that the ability to steer and advantage from that market is something not to be sneezed at.

So Obama has a point, it magnifies your influence.

From an Aussies point of view.....

From any educated person's (above primary) point of view'

Another typical arrogant statement.

Hard not to appear arrogant in some of this company

Put it down to a good education

No offence intended

[i claudius]

Your word Mr Obama means zero we are still waiting for the hope and change you promised.

Oh dear! Do I have to list all Obama's achievements? I will if you wish

Hang on ,I will just find a stamp for you to write on the back of

[Grouse]

Your word Mr Obama means zero we are still waiting for the hope and change you promised.

Oh dear! Do I have to list all Obama's achievements? I will if you wish

Hang on ,I will just find a stamp for you to write on the back of

Ha! It'll have to be a big stamp!

[MadDog2020]

He said EU MAGNIFIES UK power

Correct

He is and has been a great president

If you don't understand that, may I suggest you read up on the matter?

You are deluded. Obama (the muslim) has been a horrible president and anyone with half a brain or more admits that.

[nontabury]

He said EU MAGNIFIES UK power

Correct

He is and has been a great president

If you don't understand that, may I suggest you read up on the matter?

Great president my aris. Great for you lefties maybe.

Tell the big useless sod to keep his nose out of Brit affairs and sort out his own house.

I am not a lefty but nor am I facist.

Do you really have no idea of what Obama has achieved? No, I suppose not.

As the USA does more trade with us than any other country, of course this issue affects them

I really don't get your point though I feel splattered with your bile

Hmmm . . .

It's usually only lefties that use the word facist?

And it's usually lefties who accuse others opinions as bile? (usually proceeded by the word racist)

Kinda gave yourself away there Grouse old bean hahaha

Let's say that I'm a social democrat without capitals. Scandinavian ideas I suppose. Happy now?

I think"tell the big, useless sod" constitutes bile. Noxious anyway.

Scandinavian ideas, well it would seem that the Swede's are also getting sick of the EU,with increasing numbers wanting to follow the UK and jump the sinking ship.

[samran]

There is a string of US and other Allied war cemeteries starting at Normandy stretching probably all the way to Berlin which suggests neither he, nor any other US (and allied leader) have to keep his nose out of this one.

As an Australian, it would be a pleasure to see Britain leave the EU so I can see those ashen faced performances of British trade negotiators as they go cap in hand to all their major trade partners for a trade agreement only to be told to get to the back of the line. It would be exquisite to watch the little englander's who lobbied for a Brexit looking to find a reason why a trade agreement might take 10 or so years to arrive at, and when you do eventually get there, look for explanations on why it will be sub-optimal to the one which being part of the EU affords you.

It would be extra sweet given it was the Brits with little sympathy cut out Australian, NZ, SA, Canada out of its trade arrangements abruptly in 1971 leaving us in the lurch, and which has taken many of us 30 to 40 years to repair -all at a disadvantage of not being part of a trading block.

But that is me as an Australian.

As an economist, I'd tell you you were daft. Being part of a major trading block is what it is all about. It gives you a level of influence that you'd never get being on your own. You are the top two or three influencers in the EU, and with that the ability to steer and advantage from that market is something not to be sneezed at.

So Obama has a point, it magnifies your influence.

So you are bitter because you feel betrayed by something that happened 45 years ago?

I would like to point out that TRADE is not the only talking point about whether Great Britain stays or opts out.

GB is literally on it's knees because of many reasons, all caused by the spineless governments we have had since 1990

We used to have a backbone the envy of the world for a nation of the size of Florida

Now we just bow down to all and sundry in fear of being labelled racist. It is St George's day today yet people are scared to fly the cross in case they are labelled racist. Another govt/council decision as to not upset whining minorities

I would love to answer Grouse in respect of what has gone wrong or failed under the EU, but I think electricity will have run out by the time I had listed everything!

Reading your post here, it ain't me who is bitter about the past, present, or future.

I haven't brought anything up from 4 decades ago buddy. I don't even talk about England winning the football world cup from 1966 because it is sooooo long ago!!!

If having a gripe about something I do not like is bitter, then fair play. You did the same but your 'gripe' is over 40 years old!! Get over it.

Apologies. You referred to the last time Britain had backbone. Given you haven't been able to win a real war by yourselves without the yanks running to the rescue for more than a century, I though you were referring to the 1890's. Envy of the world, even longer...

Didn't realise you were talking about the faux tubthumping of the Thatcher era, which is still closer the 30 years ago.

Edited April 23, 2016 by samran

[kingalfred]

Obama such a hypocrite or maybe he would be content for the USA to give up the ability to decide who to trade with, and have a court in another country tell it what laws are allowed. Looking at his failed 2nd term perhaps he is happy with such actions

Edited April 23, 2016 by kingalfred

[uksomchai]

He said EU MAGNIFIES UK power

Correct

He is and has been a great president

If you don't understand that, may I suggest you read up on the matter?

I think you forgot to add the funny emoticons to your post as you cannot be serious here ?

Obama is the most useless and impotent President in living history. He has made the world standing for the USA a joke. In the Middle East, in Asia, in Africa – and, yes, in Europe – he has betrayed long-standing US allies, stood weak and passive in the face of aggression, kowtowed to dictators and seen the US’s standing diminished far below even the level left by his predecessor George W Bush. A President that was elected on the back of the slogan " yes we can" turned out to be the President that COULDN'T ! ands DIDN'T and yet here is a President telling us Brits we should stay in an unelected, undemocratic EU not because it is good for the British people but it is just good for America. A President that lectures us on how we need to be told what to do by the EU and yet himself refuses to sign up to international laws that would make US citizens bound to accept laws from legally superior foreign bodies. He refuses to sign up to the International Criminal Court, The International convention on the Law of the Sea and it is the only nation on earth that has refused to recognise the UN conventions on the rights of the child and the emancipation of women.

We also have very little say when it comes to anything the EU does as we have only have a 3.6% amount of the EC members so barely nothing and certainly needs magnifying

Oh and I am betting that by the time he does bow out Gitmo will still be open for business About a decade after he told you all he was closing it

[Scotwight]

Obama such a hypocrite or maybe he would be content for the USA to give up the ability to decide who to trade with, and have a court in another country tell it what laws are allowed. Looking at his failed 2nd term perhaps he is happy with such actions

What do you think Trump has been going on about? Gee you are not informed at all. Perhaps you should talk to an American before you post.

The WTO routinely trumps U.S. laws and conventions with its rulings. According to former trade representative Robert Lighthizer, the U.S. is one of the most sued nations in the WTO and we lose the majority of cases brought against us. By signing the agreement with the World Trade Organization, the U.S. Congress agreed to concede a major portion of our sovereignty and permit the usurpation of our democratic legislative process, including:

1. Conforming U.S. laws, regulations and administrative procedures to the will of the WTO (Article XVI, p. 10)
2. Subjecting all state and local laws and practices that affect trade to international review by the WTO (Article XVI, p. 10)
3. Allowing any WTO member country to challenge federal, state and local laws and practices as trade impeding (Section 2 of the Dispute Settlement Understanding)
4. Taking all trade disputes to the WTO judiciary – giving the WTO final jurisdiction over all trade altercations. No appeal exists outside of the WTO (Section 2 of the Dispute Settlement Understanding)
5. Empowering the WTO to enforce its rulings by imposing fines on the United States until we comply
6. Disallowing Congress to change the agreement.

http://economyincrisis.org/content/what-the-u-s-gave-up-by-joining-the-wto

[Thongkorn]

All the EU is doing is taking 55%million a day of British taxpayers, They hinder our fishing fleet, by making quotes forcing fishermen to throw back fish who cannot swim becasue their swim bladder is full of air so they are wasted, And we cannot even fish our own waters for fish, Every other EU country can ,They HInder the Great british NHS,Tell us we must provide healthcare for ALL of the EU, THey hinder the British farmers who have to grow straight carrots or throw the bent ones away, along with many other vegetables, Britain cannot make its own trade agreements with the world with out permission from an UNELECTED Body. although its the 5th largest economy in the world , and the net contributor Country, and the biggest Importer of EU goods, British law is about 40% made in Britain becasue again an UNELECTED BODY makes 60% laws for Britain, Britain has no say in who can enter our Country, WE have 460 foreign murders in our prisons, we cannot send them back becasue THEY have Human rights, according to the EU, There are numerous rapes by eastern men, they say I thought it was ok it is in our country, and we cannot deport them because THEY have human right, what about the victims. I could go on , Can not any one see why brits are pist off,

Edited April 23, 2016 by Thongkorn

[Khon Kaen Dave]

I dont care either way,as long as its sunny!

[TommyUK1960]

Obama visiting Britain has most likely increased the out votes. Just hope America has Mr Trump as their next president.

[rijit]

All the EU is doing is taking 55%million a day of British taxpayers, They hinder our fishing fleet, by making quotes forcing fishermen to throw back fish who cannot swim becasue their swim bladder is full of air so they are wasted, And we cannot even fish our own waters for fish, Every other EU country can ,They HInder the Great british NHS,Tell us we must provide healthcare for ALL of the EU, THey hinder the British farmers who have to grow straight carrots or throw the bent ones away, along with many other vegetables, Britain cannot make its own trade agreements with the world with out permission from an UNELECTED Body. although its the 5th largest economy in the world , and the net contributor Country, and the biggest Importer of EU goods, British law is about 40% made in Britain becasue again an UNELECTED BODY makes 60% laws for Britain, Britain has no say in who can enter our Country, WE have 460 foreign murders in our prisons, we cannot send them back becasue THEY have Human rights, according to the EU, There are numerous rapes by eastern men, they say I thought it was ok it is in our country, and we cannot deport them because THEY have human right, what about the victims. I could go on , Can not any one see why brits are pist off,

What. Absolute dribble

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lungmi]

2 miilions of economic migrants will come back after a Brexit.

The qualified British workers has to be integrated in a rotten

health and social system, a weak fiancial situation and

Francfort will take over London as financial place.

[nontabury]

All the EU is doing is taking 55%million a day of British taxpayers, They hinder our fishing fleet, by making quotes forcing fishermen to throw back fish who cannot swim becasue their swim bladder is full of air so they are wasted, And we cannot even fish our own waters for fish, Every other EU country can ,They HInder the Great british NHS,Tell us we must provide healthcare for ALL of the EU, THey hinder the British farmers who have to grow straight carrots or throw the bent ones away, along with many other vegetables, Britain cannot make its own trade agreements with the world with out permission from an UNELECTED Body. although its the 5th largest economy in the world , and the net contributor Country, and the biggest Importer of EU goods, British law is about 40% made in Britain becasue again an UNELECTED BODY makes 60% laws for Britain, Britain has no say in who can enter our Country, WE have 460 foreign murders in our prisons, we cannot send them back becasue THEY have Human rights, according to the EU, There are numerous rapes by eastern men, they say I thought it was ok it is in our country, and we cannot deport them because THEY have human right, what about the victims. I could go on , Can not any one see why brits are pist off,

What. Absolute dribble

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Apart from the reference to carrots and unrestricted access to our country( although this is true to citizens of the EU)what other is absolute dribble?

[samran]

^^nontabury

Nothing mate - opportunities for business and career, not to say lifestyle are superior in my case being in Asia. London was too far away from family and networks in either Thailand or Australia to raise kids. Must admit it was nice to be expatriated back to Thailand. But that was more than a decade ago so it is in the past.

You must confuse my gentle ribbing as is required of me as an australian towards all Brits as something more sinister. Let me assure your pasty think skin that I am not and that my family and I are booked to spend a couple of weeks touring around your glorious sunny isles this coming 'summer'.

Edited April 23, 2016 by samran

[Basil B]

As POTUS, Obama's previous visits to the UK.

1 x G20 Summit.

2 x G8 Summits.

1 x NATO Summit.

The reason for this visit. Nothing to do with the UK being in the EU. A fear that TTIP will be dead in the water should the UK leave the EU.

Sorry Obama, you came for the wrong reasons, time to get in your jet back to Stateside and deal with America. It would appear that you have more than enough sh!t to deal with on your own doorstep.

The Queen's 90th birthday?

BTW your Pythonesque political system is so ineffectual that no one can get anything done. Is it mainly for humour?

Queens birthday... <deleted> queue jumper.

As protocol goes he should be at the back of the queue, remember he represents former colonies that went to war against Great Britain.

[samran]

Samran

OK I will bite and talk about way back seeing that is what you seem to be more interested in

1) If you are referring to the 2 world wars when you say USA came "running to the rescue" let me point out that it was A WORLD WAR not GB against allcomers so it was the duty of the USA to come and help

2) In the 2nd world war, the USA were too busy struggling against the Japs until they felt the need to almost obliterate a whole nation with the H bomb

3) USA has tried twice and failed in trying to take Canada

4) GB is undefeated since 1066 - for Australians and other new nations, 1066 is a year from 950 years ago, not 11:06am

5) Many reports state that in fact, the Germans lost WW2 because of an error in planning to take the Soviet Union. Said error being that they became trapped by the sub-zero climate in the depths of the Baltic winter rendering the Germans pretty useless. 10s of thousands succumbed leaving opportunities for the allies to take their chance thus defeating the nazis. Obviously I am not saying that this was the only reason but it did play a major part in their demise. Only a naive person would deny this

You seem to make out as though the Americans came over, shot a few bullets, threw a few grenades and walked off with their rifles over their shoulders smoking fat cigars!! Rather like the movies? Made in erm . . . . . . HOLLYWOOD?

Your comments would turn any WW2 soldier in their graves Sam.

Brits, Americans, Canadians, Australians, Ghurkas . . . everyone who fought and died for our freedom.

I respect your right to reply, but will say I will not be typing anything more to you as it is becoming obvious you are wanting an argument about things nothing to do with Obama's visit to London or his possible motives. That's all

Hardly looking for an argument. I made some points about trade policy in an historical and economic context and why Obama's comments made sense.

You banged on about the flag of St George and british backbone before finishing with a the misinformed flourish we see above. But, I don't want to get off topic. You, however, were never on topic.

I started on topic if you care to begin at my 1st comment

You took it off topic with your anti British rant about your hardships from 1971

Chip? Shoulder?

Goodbye

Oh, poor you, facts or accuracy must never have been as strong suite of yours, as has been pointed out by others (btw how did Stalingrad get to be near the baltics?)

As for my points, they are highly relevant, and mentioned most recently by none other than your floppy haired PM in waiting:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10265619/The-Aussies-are-just-like-us-so-lets-stop-kicking-them-out.html

But do keep banging on how you can't wave your St Georges flag anymore and lamenting your self inflicted lack of backbone. Very productive thoughts and all that you are probably capeable of....

[HappyinNE]

Your word Mr Obama means zero we are still waiting for the hope and change you promised.

Oh dear! Do I have to list all Obama's achievements? I will if you wish

You just did!

[Scotwight]

Your word Mr Obama means zero we are still waiting for the hope and change you promised.

Oh dear! Do I have to list all Obama's achievements? I will if you wish

You just did!

U.S. reopened its embassy in Cuba. Appointed first openly transgender Cabinet Official in History. Appointed more openly gay officials than anyone in history. Killed Osama.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Scotwight

[Squeegee]

British politicians are so full of it too. I believe just recently David Cameron was the latest in a long line of those who abuse the true geographical meaning, that being the greatest in size of the British Isles.

[derator01]

Several off topic and bickering posts have been removed from view. Please stick to the topic and respect other members.

[mki8]

Look at GDP per person since the 70s. Not bad!

What kind of security do you want? North Korea? After a Brexit we will have migrant camps in Kent and much reduced cooperation with mainland security. Again, I think we're doing quite well

What bailouts have we contributed to?

More low price labour for us and bigger market for products and services

Which "better off" countries want leave? Germany? Netherlands?

Scots get more money per head than UK

So, tell us again what your beef is?

Are you being undercut by a Bulgarian?

So we should leave?

since the 70's of course numbers are up, the world has printed a lot more money

EU open borders very secure yeh ?

why would we have migrant camps in kent? or would that be a disaster seeing as most migrants are dispersed all over the country, you are just yet to have any in Kent.

Also the brexit would mean UK could change migrant/immigration laws without EU's permission or Eu changing anything, which means UK can tighten security.

We dont pay any money to be in EU do we ?

it all goes in a big pot, then is used to keep the poorer countries afloat, as Eu thinks of Eu as a whole.

Low price labour...... obviously you are not someone born without, as you have not had to compete for for a low wage job, or had to work with any immigrants.

bigger markets for trade............ in or out of EU will make no difference to trade at all, stop repeating crap from media intended to scare people in to a way of thinking. business is business and companies will always make money wherever they can.

UK done just fine before we joined EU. was it not the UK alone that established many trade routes now used by many countries ??????

UK was stated in brackets, if UK leaves others will follow (or at least weigh up options) (ok should have stated a primamy member, not countries)

Scots get more money per head, yeh right show us your reference for this so we can rip it to shreds, my argument was also the money that comes from scotland goes to england and the same amount does not go back to scotland, nothing to do with per head, and we know money is not divided like that anyway.

obviously you must be English

Edited April 24, 2016 by mki8

[p_brownstone]

It still amazes me that America, with a National Debt in the Trillions, deep in debt to China, Japan, Saudi Arabia et al still feels it has a moral right to dictate to others.

Patrick

[kingalfred]

It still amazes me that America, with a National Debt in the Trillions, deep in debt to China, Japan, Saudi Arabia et al still feels it has a moral right to dictate to others.

Patrick

actually its Only Obama and his damsel in hock Hillary who lectures others,not the US people.And both of them have been abject failures in their respective roles!

[Scotwight]

It still amazes me that America, with a National Debt in the Trillions, deep in debt to China, Japan, Saudi Arabia et al still feels it has a moral right to dictate to others.

Patrick

Good point but since the external national debt of the USA is 103% of GDP and the UK's is 569% of GDP I guess the UK should be listening to the US. You did bring it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

[arjunadawn]

Fallacy of the appeal to authority; the problem is, his legitimacy is only the office, no longer the person. One thing is viscerally clear: Obama does not believe staying in the EU magnifies the UK; Obama believes UK staying in the the EU magnifies the US. (His Freudian threat suggests this).