A leading German politician says the country’s mosques should come under state control

[rooster59]

A leading German politician says the country’s mosques should come under state control



An influential politician from Angela Merkel’s ruling CDU party says all mosques in Germany should be subject to state supervision in light of what he sees as a threat from extreme Muslims.

Volker Kauder, who heads the conservative parliamentary grouping in Germany’s lower house, used his twitter account air his views on controlling mosques and radical imams.

That drew an immediate response from some critics of the idea.
Unrealistic and useless was the view of the Die Welt newspaper.

But Kauder says that Germany was constituted as a secular state and that sermons delivered in some mosques donot conform with that concept.

The Berliner Zeitung newspaper on Friday quoted him as saying religion does not stand above the state, but rather the the state over religion.

Kauder’s remarks came just before a meeting of the right-wing Alternative for Germany party, which has drafted an anti-Islamic manifesto.

Some analysts see his remarks as an attempt win back voters from the AfD.

Germany is home to around four million Muslims.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-04-30

[malathione]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

[Steely Dan]

With an estimated four million Muslims living in Germany I can but ask how overdue is this?

Edited April 30, 2016 by Steely Dan

[sweatalot]

why tolerate a "religion" that teaches their believers to despise all other believes in a country of people who do not believe in that "religion"?

BTW how many percent of terror attacks and other cruelties are committed by the believers?

Inviting a big family of cobras to their house comes to my mind

Edited April 30, 2016 by sweatalot

[mumjokmok]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

Edited April 30, 2016 by mumjokmok

[Ulic]

The first step is to get rid of the Saudi Wahhabi imams that preach the hatred.

Just deport and blacklist them.

[sanukjim]

Signed Adolf

[mesterm]

They constantly ask for tolerance... but if I were to preach Christianity or Buddhism or anything else in the Middle East, how much would I be tolerated I wonder?

[hansnl]

Sanukjim thinks it necessary to relate the democratic situation now to the undemocratic situation then.

If a religion, more or less, wants to rebuild the democratic state into a hell on earth for others, wants to do away with our freedoms, then control of these centres of dissident must be controlled.

Overdue really.

May I say that the islam does not belong in Europe.

In history there are examples why.

Edited April 30, 2016 by hansnl

[i claudius]

Far from being a religion of peace ,it has become once again a religion of hate and subjugation,as it always does once the religious leaders take over,just look what Iran was until they took the reins

[Saladin]

Religion of any creed should come under the control of the State in all countries and an ear should be kept on their teachings and preachings. Throughout history institutionalised religion has been the major cause of wars and man-made misery..

[ggt]

This brave politician's days are now numbered...he is not dealing with rational people...they defend their perceived territory with the sword...

[humqdpf]

I remember in Germany years ago that there was a religious tax that you paid. This must give the authorities some power over the various religions.

I would be in favour of putting ALL religious outlets (temples, churches, schools etc) under state control. Too easy to have hate speech going on under the noses of the authorities, not to mention child abuse etc.

[Dumbastheycome]

To be fair to the sentiment when it comes to anti establishment and/or socially divisive doctrine being preached then it should be applied to all faiths and religions.

[arjunadawn]

Religion of any creed should come under the control of the State in all countries and an ear should be kept on their teachings and preachings. Throughout history institutionalised religion has been the major cause of wars and man-made misery..

Great post; agreed. One point though. I am initially concerned less with religion being under state control (as, for example, in the case of the US where this is not possible. Also a high bar in many countries.) then wanting religion to be provided no sacred cow status. Religion should be voluntary association, and its protections and exemptions no different than organizations or yachting clubs. This is the key issue: religion is treated with special accommodation, like a collective Pascal's Wager. Its as if nation's are afraid to subordinate religion. Like an amulet, religion embraces their lofty status in the modern world and demands opacity. Poppycock!

Pascal offered he should live his life as if there was a god because when he dies, if there is a god, he would have gained all. If, when he died, and there is no god, he would have lost nothing and lived an upright life. Its a fallacious argument but the inheritance of religions in the secular, modern classical world seems to provide a special accommodation for religion for no apparent reason; an inheritance. With regard to islam, its nearly beyond circumspection, and demands this. The efforts to prevent criticism or even objective evaluation of islam is nearly as loudly protested as the reasons for wanting to investigate islam are compelling.

Islam's presence and elevation in the west is wholly accommodated and facilitated by the left. Its a marriage of convenience because its self evident to the left that islam's aims are initially the same as the left: the subordination or dissolution of traditional western civilization. This permission is central to the current problem in Germany, EU, and the USA. The Grand Jihad, How Obama Embraces Sharia's Agenda, Catastrophic Failure, The Red Green Axis, Unholy Alliance, and many other books document the left's marriage islamic permissiveness. A peek into Germany just today reveals violent leftists. This should be a harbinger of how the dialogue regarding islamization in Germany is going to pan out. (Its a curious thing but invariably the left would be the first housecleaning in a sharia environment).

Add to this formula the near global and persistent efforts to criminalize critique of islam and the perfect storm of insurrection is in place. All the while islam is provided cover for status because it believes in... something... anything, and has a book, the defining characteristic of a religion! No organization of peoples should be above query because they hold unique, old, or peculiar beliefs. Without question, Germany, the EU, the USA, indeed everywhere, is going to be in for a long hot summer (suggesting America's election process is going to exacerbate events abroad).

[car720]

Islam is both insidious and ubiquitous yet nobody wants to attack the problem which is becoming increasingly obvious. However, if China or Russia or any other nationalistic group decides to show signs of expansion then all military might is brought to bear.

It seems that there is money in war but not in protecting freedom.

But then again, what would I know.

[Jimbo2014]

Bulldoze them all.

[Ace of Pop]

Bulldoze them all.

Yes All Mumbo Jumbo places too

[overherebc]

Bulldoze them all.

Return the favour and give them all the support and understanding they give other religions on their turf.

[spidermike007]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

It is an interesting point you bring up, and one that makes us ponder if this debate is going on within Muslim society. And if so, why are we hearing so little about that debate? Why are so few Muslims speaking out against the super freak rapists, gang banging ISIS men children, and the murderous thugs pretending to be religious. There was a massive rally in Belgium recently. How many muslims showed up, denouncing the extremists? How many Muslim leaders, politicians and clerics are speaking out in a vociferous manner?

The issue is, that many moderate minded people are starting to lump all Muslims together, due to the lack of outcry from within the Muslim community. It is making them appear to be either complicit, or at least tolerant of the nonsense. If they do not start speaking out, the potential backlash toward all muslims worldwide could become horrific.

[simple1]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

It is an interesting point you bring up, and one that makes us ponder if this debate is going on within Muslim society. And if so, why are we hearing so little about that debate? Why are so few Muslims speaking out against the super freak rapists, gang banging ISIS men children, and the murderous thugs pretending to be religious. There was a massive rally in Belgium recently. How many muslims showed up, denouncing the extremists? How many Muslim leaders, politicians and clerics are speaking out in a vociferous manner?

The issue is, that many moderate minded people are starting to lump all Muslims together, due to the lack of outcry from within the Muslim community. It is making them appear to be either complicit, or at least tolerant of the nonsense. If they do not start speaking out, the potential backlash toward all muslims worldwide could become horrific.

Below is an example of an anti terror protest on April 17 in Belgium. Even though the report is from The Guardian it failed to report the demonstration was contributed to & coordinated by members of the local Muslim community - reported by another media outlet. An earlier demonstration was stopped by violent far right thugs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/17/thousands-participate-in-brussels-march-against-terror-and-hate

As previously mentioned in other topics in some detail many Islamic / Muslim organisations have very clearly spoken out against Daesh and other terror groups with little coverage by mainstream media outlets. Here in Australia there was a terror murder of a police civilian worker; the local Muslim community held a fund raiser for the family of the deceased - exactly one media outlet reported the matter. Thousands of Muslim security forces have lost their lives fighting Islamic terror groups, minimal coverage of the effort & losses.

Overall there is little balanced reporting, one has to ask the question - "Why?".

Edited May 1, 2016 by simple1

[Naam]

I remember in Germany years ago that there was a religious tax that you paid. This must give the authorities some power over the various religions.

I would be in favour of putting ALL religious outlets (temples, churches, schools etc) under state control. Too easy to have hate speech going on under the noses of the authorities, not to mention child abuse etc.

this tax called "Kirchensteuer" (church tax) still exists (levied with income tax from catholics and protestants). but it does not empower any government authorities over both christian religions.

the basis of this tax was the confiscation of most properties both churches owned in the late 19th century.

[malathione]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

It is an interesting point you bring up, and one that makes us ponder if this debate is going on within Muslim society. And if so, why are we hearing so little about that debate? Why are so few Muslims speaking out against the super freak rapists, gang banging ISIS men children, and the murderous thugs pretending to be religious. There was a massive rally in Belgium recently. How many muslims showed up, denouncing the extremists? How many Muslim leaders, politicians and clerics are speaking out in a vociferous manner?

The issue is, that many moderate minded people are starting to lump all Muslims together, due to the lack of outcry from within the Muslim community. It is making them appear to be either complicit, or at least tolerant of the nonsense. If they do not start speaking out, the potential backlash toward all muslims worldwide could become horrific.

Below is an example of an anti terror protest on April 17 in Belgium. Even though the report is from The Guardian it failed to report the demonstration was contributed to & coordinated by members of the local Muslim community - reported by another media outlet. An earlier demonstration was stopped by violent far right thugs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/17/thousands-participate-in-brussels-march-against-terror-and-hate

As previously mentioned in other topics in some detail many Islamic / Muslim organisations have very clearly spoken out against Daesh and other terror groups with little coverage by mainstream media outlets. Here in Australia there was a terror murder of a police civilian worker; the local Muslim community held a fund raiser for the family of the deceased - exactly one media outlet reported the matter. Thousands of Muslim security forces have lost their lives fighting Islamic terror groups, minimal coverage of the effort & losses.

Overall there is little balanced reporting, one has to ask the question - "Why?".

Agree entirely. In Pakistan, where I go for work quite frequently, many liberals have been killed simply for speaking out. Do we hear of it in the mainstream press? Rarely.

Unfortunately, the whacko hatemongerers are both better funded and better armed than those who are willing to speak out.

[Stan7444]

There is a relatively new American-Islamic organization which are speaking out very loudly in that country and was formed be Muslims. They posted their declaration on the wall of a Washington DC Saudi office which it was ripped down by the Saudis immediately. The Saudis ARE the enemy funding Al Qaida and ISIS.

If an Iman is caught preaching teaching violence and terrorism, should bulldoze such religious facility. PERIOD! All Muslims should be required to take an orth of alliangience to their country of residence or be given a one way ticket to any Islamic country of their choice.

[overherebc]

There is a relatively new American-Islamic organization which are speaking out very loudly in that country and was formed be Muslims. They posted their declaration on the wall of a Washington DC Saudi office which it was ripped down by the Saudis immediately. The Saudis ARE the enemy funding Al Qaida and ISIS.

If an Iman is caught preaching teaching violence and terrorism, should bulldoze such religious facility. PERIOD! All Muslims should be required to take an orth of alliangience to their country of residence or be given a one way ticket to any Islamic country of their choice.

Agree and any family members with them.

[Naam]

There is a relatively new American-Islamic organization which are speaking out very loudly in that country and was formed be Muslims. They posted their declaration on the wall of a Washington DC Saudi office which it was ripped down by the Saudis immediately. The Saudis ARE the enemy funding Al Qaida and ISIS.

If an Iman is caught preaching teaching violence and terrorism, should bulldoze such religious facility. PERIOD! All Muslims should be required to take an orth of alliangience to their country of residence or be given a one way ticket to any Islamic country of their choice.

Agree and any family members with them.

i also agree but "an orth of alliangience" is too much to ask for

[spidermike007]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

Yeah well I suppose sensible and true.

I just think then Muslims may want to have a bit of free international discussion as to what is the core of the religion and see whether the current Salafist and Wahabbi leadership, or internationally represented face of Islam, actually fits the people's core beliefs. White people watch that debate you'd change your perceptions in five minutes..

It is an interesting point you bring up, and one that makes us ponder if this debate is going on within Muslim society. And if so, why are we hearing so little about that debate? Why are so few Muslims speaking out against the super freak rapists, gang banging ISIS men children, and the murderous thugs pretending to be religious. There was a massive rally in Belgium recently. How many muslims showed up, denouncing the extremists? How many Muslim leaders, politicians and clerics are speaking out in a vociferous manner?

The issue is, that many moderate minded people are starting to lump all Muslims together, due to the lack of outcry from within the Muslim community. It is making them appear to be either complicit, or at least tolerant of the nonsense. If they do not start speaking out, the potential backlash toward all muslims worldwide could become horrific.

Below is an example of an anti terror protest on April 17 in Belgium. Even though the report is from The Guardian it failed to report the demonstration was contributed to & coordinated by members of the local Muslim community - reported by another media outlet. An earlier demonstration was stopped by violent far right thugs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/17/thousands-participate-in-brussels-march-against-terror-and-hate

As previously mentioned in other topics in some detail many Islamic / Muslim organisations have very clearly spoken out against Daesh and other terror groups with little coverage by mainstream media outlets. Here in Australia there was a terror murder of a police civilian worker; the local Muslim community held a fund raiser for the family of the deceased - exactly one media outlet reported the matter. Thousands of Muslim security forces have lost their lives fighting Islamic terror groups, minimal coverage of the effort & losses.

Overall there is little balanced reporting, one has to ask the question - "Why?".

Thanks so much for that post. People really need to start seeing these kinds of things. I am very alarmed at my moderate minded friends, who are starting to lump all Muslims together. I have spent years arguing that the majority of Muslims do not support the butthead extremists. But, that argument is getting harder and harder to make. We need to see more of this, and there is an urgency to this.

And yes, I agree the media does not seem to have an interest in reporting much of this. It seems fear mongering, and spreading hatred, Trump style, is what the media is more interested in.

[AYJAYDEE]

That's how it is in Saudi Arabia, as well. There, sermons have to be cleared by the government before they can be delivered to ensure that they follow the government line.

No reason why the same cannot apply elsewhere, in my opinion.

great idea, make germany as vile a system as the saudis

[hansnl]

Indeed, an oath of allegiance?

Given by muslims to non muslims?

Can do, no problem, not valid anyway.

[hansnl]

Islam declared war on all other religions and secular people.

Politically correctness inhabits the right response.

Rules of this, rules of that, rules of everything.

We keep them, islam not.

Which will be our undoing.