NLA hosts seminar on fight against patronage system

[webfact]

NLA hosts seminar on fight against patronage system

BANGKOK, 3 May 2016 (NNT) – The National Legislative Assembly has hosted a seminar on the fight against the patronage system in Thailand’s bureaucracy.

The NLA’s committee on challenging the patronage system in the Thai bureaucracy, organized the seminar to hear opinions related to measures to prevent and to solve this problem in a concrete fashion.

Chairman of the committee Admiral Saksit Cherdboonmuang said that the patronage system has had deep roots in Thai society for hundreds of years, due to the country’s cultural foundation and the values held by Thais.

As a result of this, the patronage system has been adopted by successive administrations and has resulted in the present situation, in which decisions have been made by those in power and not in accordance with rules and regulations, Admiral Saksit said.

He stressed that such a practice has adversely affected the efficiency of the bureaucratic system and led to corruption as well as the loss of the people’s faith in the credibility of the Thai bureaucracy.

At the seminar, participants also heard a lecture and a debate on this issue from which information was collected by the committee for the preparation of suggested solutions to this problem.

-- NNT 2016-05-03

[mtls2005]

Shortest seminar ever?

[WhizBang]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

[robblok]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

[teko]

A step in the right direction that they recognize the problem within the bureaucracy, and you might say the majority of Thai society, business, police and so on.
Though as we know with all these grandiose statements, they are simply that and I doubt if real change will ever come into place.

[trainman34014]

Good luck with that one.....but i fear a damp squib !

[NongKhaiKid]

Didn't NLA members hire family members as soon as the assembly was set up ?

Hypocrisy doesn;t even start to cover it.

Would the admiral quoted in the story be the one who hired 4 of his own family ?

[Holy Cinema]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

Booom!! you can't help yourself can you you see an opportunity to bring the Shins into an thread.

I pity guys like you, you seem unable to move away from the past, the steps to prevent repeating occurrences should be made today, so that tomorrow we don't make the same mistakes as yesterday!!

The biggest repeating occurrence in Modern Thai history is the Military coups. Prevent them from happening by severely punishing those who stage them would be the best "attitude adjustment this country could ever possibly see. It would make those who plan and plot them, which is subversive in nature, which is against the Law, something the junta lovers seem to enjoy overlooking.

Coups are not the answer to the problems, they are the cause of them.

You bitched and moaned about the Yingluck Regime not being accountable but yet you are quite happy to "go with the flow" when there's none now.

You were one of the very vocal people back in 2014 who praised this coup from the high heavens and stated .. "But this coup is different" when it's clearly no different to the previous ones, if anything, what's been going on has been worse.

[robblok]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

Booom!! you can't help yourself can you you see an opportunity to bring the Shins into an thread.

I pity guys like you, you seem unable to move away from the past, the steps to prevent repeating occurrences should be made today, so that tomorrow we don't make the same mistakes as yesterday!!

The biggest repeating occurrence in Modern Thai history is the Military coups. Prevent them from happening by severely punishing those who stage them would be the best "attitude adjustment this country could ever possibly see. It would make those who plan and plot them, which is subversive in nature, which is against the Law, something the junta lovers seem to enjoy overlooking.

Coups are not the answer to the problems, they are the cause of them.

You bitched and moaned about the Yingluck Regime not being accountable but yet you are quite happy to "go with the flow" when there's none now.

You were one of the very vocal people back in 2014 who praised this coup from the high heavens and stated .. "But this coup is different" when it's clearly no different to the previous ones, if anything, what's been going on has been worse.

Boom.. you hate seeing that YL did the same.

Fact is they are all doing it and it should change, did you not see me commenting that I did not agree what happened to the PM his nephew ? You act like its a junta thing.. its not.. its done by all the parties and is a cancer.

[Orac]

Is this a Not The Nation piece in disguise?

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Another exemple, a huge one but who has not been mentioned here :

AIS is summoned to give around 6 millions users to True. Officialy about a bandwitch thing, but strangely this happens since the son of a top brass is working for True.

http://www.telecomasia.net/content/thai-govt-leans-ais-surrender-8m-users-true

Manager quoted another anonymous source in the NBTC saying that the meeting was called under the orders of the “big boss” who wants the matter to be done and dusted as soon as possible. The source also highlighted conflict of interest pointing out that Deputy Prime Minister Wissanu’s son was now working at one of AIS’ competitors.

Edited May 3, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[phoenixdoglover]

For some reason, I'm feeling deeply cynical about this NLA initiative.

It comes close on the heels of a notable case of nepotism in the military.

It focuses only on the bureaucracy.

It avoids the military, police, and the NLA itself.

The NLA is an appointed, rubber stamp legislature, entirely dedicated to the agenda of the NCPO.

We're doing something about nepotism!

Yeah, right.

[Holy Cinema]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

Booom!! you can't help yourself can you you see an opportunity to bring the Shins into an thread.

I pity guys like you, you seem unable to move away from the past, the steps to prevent repeating occurrences should be made today, so that tomorrow we don't make the same mistakes as yesterday!!

The biggest repeating occurrence in Modern Thai history is the Military coups. Prevent them from happening by severely punishing those who stage them would be the best "attitude adjustment this country could ever possibly see. It would make those who plan and plot them, which is subversive in nature, which is against the Law, something the junta lovers seem to enjoy overlooking.

Coups are not the answer to the problems, they are the cause of them.

You bitched and moaned about the Yingluck Regime not being accountable but yet you are quite happy to "go with the flow" when there's none now.

You were one of the very vocal people back in 2014 who praised this coup from the high heavens and stated .. "But this coup is different" when it's clearly no different to the previous ones, if anything, what's been going on has been worse.

Boom.. you hate seeing that YL did the same.

Fact is they are all doing it and it should change, did you not see me commenting that I did not agree what happened to the PM his nephew ? You act like its a junta thing.. its not.. its done by all the parties and is a cancer.

News Flash, Yingluck has been gone 2 years, and is yesterdays news. Have you ever considered therapy for being unable to look forwards, instead of looking back constantly? Your neck must be in constant pain, as you do it so often!

Fact is, the ones doing it now are unaccountable to ANYONE. So right now, it IS a Junta think, it's been a Junta thing since May 2104, and until an election is held, it will remain to be a Junta thing.

[robblok]

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

Booom!! you can't help yourself can you you see an opportunity to bring the Shins into an thread.

I pity guys like you, you seem unable to move away from the past, the steps to prevent repeating occurrences should be made today, so that tomorrow we don't make the same mistakes as yesterday!!

The biggest repeating occurrence in Modern Thai history is the Military coups. Prevent them from happening by severely punishing those who stage them would be the best "attitude adjustment this country could ever possibly see. It would make those who plan and plot them, which is subversive in nature, which is against the Law, something the junta lovers seem to enjoy overlooking.

Coups are not the answer to the problems, they are the cause of them.

You bitched and moaned about the Yingluck Regime not being accountable but yet you are quite happy to "go with the flow" when there's none now.

You were one of the very vocal people back in 2014 who praised this coup from the high heavens and stated .. "But this coup is different" when it's clearly no different to the previous ones, if anything, what's been going on has been worse.

Boom.. you hate seeing that YL did the same.

Fact is they are all doing it and it should change, did you not see me commenting that I did not agree what happened to the PM his nephew ? You act like its a junta thing.. its not.. its done by all the parties and is a cancer.

News Flash, Yingluck has been gone 2 years, and is yesterdays news. Have you ever considered therapy for being unable to look forwards, instead of looking back constantly? Your neck must be in constant pain, as you do it so often!

Fact is, the ones doing it now are unaccountable to ANYONE. So right now, it IS a Junta think, it's been a Junta thing since May 2104, and until an election is held, it will remain to be a Junta thing.

No problems with my neck.. I am not an OAP I am still in good health so looking back does not hurt my neck.

No its a general thing here, if you don't see that you should go for a dr visit to check how red sighted you are.

They all do it and its wrong no matter who does it. Right now its a junta thing, in the past it was a YL thing, it has even been a democrat thing. In short.. whoever is in power seems to fall back on this system so a general change is needed.

[brucec64]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

but, but, but...

The difference is that the very thinly veiled, (and completely unbelievable) premise behind the coup was to clean up the past transgressions. That's what makes this current government especially hypocritical.

Any seminar by the NLA on patronage is a joke as long as all of their aide posts are filled by relatives.

[Holy Cinema]

ah the old if you don't support the junta, you must be red fallacy.

Sadly I don't do colours, didn't take political sides anywhere else I lived in the world in the past as it's not my issue, it's a local issue only, and only locals can sort it. It's interesting that most Thais are apathetic and don't really care what goes on anywhere else outside of their village, not their concern, never has been, never will be, it's the farangs who are more passionate about a country they're guests in who are more vocal and opinionated here.

[AlphaSoiDog]

ah the old if you don't support the junta, you must be red fallacy.

Sadly I don't do colours, didn't take political sides anywhere else I lived in the world in the past as it's not my issue, it's a local issue only, and only locals can sort it. It's interesting that most Thais are apathetic and don't really care what goes on anywhere else outside of their village, not their concern, never has been, never will be, it's the farangs who are more passionate about a country they're guests in who are more vocal and opinionated here.

They don't care?

Wasn't it the two previous "elected" governments that deliberately divided the country to wrest more control from the king? And the Thai people cared so much that they fought and some died? I'm guessing that shows more "care" than espousing a one eyed belief system on a foreign forum. Certainly the Thai people I know care a great deal.

And given the calculated way that they, the previous "elected" family, caused harm and syphoned money offshore I find it hard to accept your previously stated absolute that all the problems are caused by military coups. We don't know enough to ultimately know which government is worse, but pretending that the military "caused" all the problems and thereby implying that everything was rosy before that is naive.

[waitforusalso]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

Booom!! you can't help yourself can you you see an opportunity to bring the Shins into an thread.

I pity guys like you, you seem unable to move away from the past, the steps to prevent repeating occurrences should be made today, so that tomorrow we don't make the same mistakes as yesterday!!

The biggest repeating occurrence in Modern Thai history is the Military coups. Prevent them from happening by severely punishing those who stage them would be the best "attitude adjustment this country could ever possibly see. It would make those who plan and plot them, which is subversive in nature, which is against the Law, something the junta lovers seem to enjoy overlooking.

Coups are not the answer to the problems, they are the cause of them.

You bitched and moaned about the Yingluck Regime not being accountable but yet you are quite happy to "go with the flow" when there's none now.

You were one of the very vocal people back in 2014 who praised this coup from the high heavens and stated .. "But this coup is different" when it's clearly no different to the previous ones, if anything, what's been going on has been worse.

Boom.. you hate seeing that YL did the same.

Fact is they are all doing it and it should change, did you not see me commenting that I did not agree what happened to the PM his nephew ? You act like its a junta thing.. its not.. its done by all the parties and is a cancer.

The cancer is spread by the army & other established institutions. What you seem unable to realise is that the existing system/situation has been created & fostered by the continuing cycle of coups. You;\'d think after 18/19/? of them you'd have realised they are the cause of the problem, not the solution. How about this for a novel idea...an extended period of democracy? You never know, hasn't been tried. Not like the alternative, which is approaching attempt # 20, with no fruit in sight.

[AlphaSoiDog]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

but, but, but...

The difference is that the very thinly veiled, (and completely unbelievable) premise behind the coup was to clean up the past transgressions. That's what makes this current government especially hypocritical.

Any seminar by the NLA on patronage is a joke as long as all of their aide posts are filled by relatives.

I agree with most of what you said, except the "completely unbelievable" comment. But please don't take offence as many here do...

As I see it Thailand is ultimately a Kingdom. The previous government was using basic psychological tricks (like the 300B to poor people to make it seem the govt. cared more than the king) to divide the country, cause the king trouble and get more power. Prior to that Thai people were proud of their king, he was something good that united the country in spite of all the other crap going on. As a legacy of the last two governments we now have neighbours fighting each other over belief systems.

While I don't think that the Junta is well equiped to actually govern, and clearly they are not immune to corruption, something certainly needed to stop YL from inciting hatred and division. It's just a great pity that once a human has a belief system it is virtually impossible to get them to change it (just look at religious nuts) so the damage done will last a very long time.

[Holy Cinema]

ah the old if you don't support the junta, you must be red fallacy.

Sadly I don't do colours, didn't take political sides anywhere else I lived in the world in the past as it's not my issue, it's a local issue only, and only locals can sort it. It's interesting that most Thais are apathetic and don't really care what goes on anywhere else outside of their village, not their concern, never has been, never will be, it's the farangs who are more passionate about a country they're guests in who are more vocal and opinionated here.

They don't care?

Wasn't it the two previous "elected" governments that deliberately divided the country to wrest more control from the king? And the Thai people cared so much that they fought and some died? I'm guessing that shows more "care" than espousing a one eyed belief system on a foreign forum. Certainly the Thai people I know care a great deal.

And given the calculated way that they, the previous "elected" family, caused harm and syphoned money offshore I find it hard to accept your previously stated absolute that all the problems are caused by military coups. We don't know enough to ultimately know which government is worse, but pretending that the military "caused" all the problems and thereby implying that everything was rosy before that is naive.

And no they don't care, why do you think there was a distinct lack of protests against the Shiniwattra Regime all over the country, from North to South in 2013/14. If the people truly cared, and despised the Shins as much as some here claim they did, then there would have been even larger protests that went on across the WHOLE of the country.

Most Thais I talk to are sceptical of saying anything of a political or sensitive nature in front of a farang, even though they've known me for close to 10 years, and I never offer them opinions as to who is right and who is wrong either. .

Why all the coups then? you think Thaksin invented corruption ? he elevated it to a different level so that his opponents had their wings clipped. Now it's their turn again.

[AlphaSoiDog]

The cancer is spread by the army & other established institutions. What you seem unable to realise is that the existing system/situation has been created & fostered by the continuing cycle of coups. You;\'d think after 18/19/? of them you'd have realised they are the cause of the problem, not the solution. How about this for a novel idea...an extended period of democracy? You never know, hasn't been tried. Not like the alternative, which is approaching attempt # 20, with no fruit in sight.

I love the fact that so many have swallowed the American idea that democracy is the answer. Clearly it doesn't actually work, just look at the US with a critical eye. Democracy at it's very best is only good for guaranteeing that you don't get the very worst govt. Unfortunately it also guarantees that you can never get the best govt. (this statement came from far better thinkers than I).

Western "democracies" are just better at hiding the corruption than Thailand, I can cite many examples but I'm sure you can see that's true unless you don't want to. Given the current state of humanity with our greed, selfishness, lack of analytical thinking etc etc the only form of govt. that can work is a benign dictatorship. But finding a benign dictator is quite a trick given the previously stated human issues...

I don't have an answer other than to hope that Thailand gets a better elected govt. than the last one. My cynicism suggests that the best that can be hoped for is one that is better at hiding it's corruption. Perhaps if it doesn't openly hate the king, doesn't get caught funnelling vast amounts of money offshore and doesn't get the whole nation fighting itself then the next military coup might be delayed.

[AlphaSoiDog]

ah the old if you don't support the junta, you must be red fallacy.

Sadly I don't do colours, didn't take political sides anywhere else I lived in the world in the past as it's not my issue, it's a local issue only, and only locals can sort it. It's interesting that most Thais are apathetic and don't really care what goes on anywhere else outside of their village, not their concern, never has been, never will be, it's the farangs who are more passionate about a country they're guests in who are more vocal and opinionated here.

They don't care?

Wasn't it the two previous "elected" governments that deliberately divided the country to wrest more control from the king? And the Thai people cared so much that they fought and some died? I'm guessing that shows more "care" than espousing a one eyed belief system on a foreign forum. Certainly the Thai people I know care a great deal.

And given the calculated way that they, the previous "elected" family, caused harm and syphoned money offshore I find it hard to accept your previously stated absolute that all the problems are caused by military coups. We don't know enough to ultimately know which government is worse, but pretending that the military "caused" all the problems and thereby implying that everything was rosy before that is naive.

And no they don't care, why do you think there was a distinct lack of protests against the Shiniwattra Regime all over the country, from North to South in 2013/14. If the people truly cared, and despised the Shins as much as some here claim they did, then there would have been even larger protests that went on across the WHOLE of the country.

Most Thais I talk to are sceptical of saying anything of a political or sensitive nature in front of a farang, even though they've known me for close to 10 years, and I never offer them opinions as to who is right and who is wrong either. .

Why all the coups then? you think Thaksin invented corruption ? he elevated it to a different level so that his opponents had their wings clipped. Now it's their turn again.

There are a number of logical issues with your previous post as well as apparent contradictions to your previous statements. Clearly you have a belief system about this and no logical argument will ever win against a belief system.

If your belief is working for you then keep it and be happy. I certainly won't try to use any more logic to get you to change it. It's time for me to go and do something that actually makes me happy anyway...

[Rayk]

Masturbation makes everyone happy.

[AlphaSoiDog]

Masturbation makes everyone happy.

How did you know?

I've finally realised that my last post could be taken as a personal attack, if it was then I apologise to anyone offended.

Apparently I'm getting as bad as some of the others here....

Damn, where are the tissues....

Edited May 3, 2016 by AlphaSoiDog

[Holy Cinema]

ah the old if you don't support the junta, you must be red fallacy.

Sadly I don't do colours, didn't take political sides anywhere else I lived in the world in the past as it's not my issue, it's a local issue only, and only locals can sort it. It's interesting that most Thais are apathetic and don't really care what goes on anywhere else outside of their village, not their concern, never has been, never will be, it's the farangs who are more passionate about a country they're guests in who are more vocal and opinionated here.

They don't care?

Wasn't it the two previous "elected" governments that deliberately divided the country to wrest more control from the king? And the Thai people cared so much that they fought and some died? I'm guessing that shows more "care" than espousing a one eyed belief system on a foreign forum. Certainly the Thai people I know care a great deal.

And given the calculated way that they, the previous "elected" family, caused harm and syphoned money offshore I find it hard to accept your previously stated absolute that all the problems are caused by military coups. We don't know enough to ultimately know which government is worse, but pretending that the military "caused" all the problems and thereby implying that everything was rosy before that is naive.

And no they don't care, why do you think there was a distinct lack of protests against the Shiniwattra Regime all over the country, from North to South in 2013/14. If the people truly cared, and despised the Shins as much as some here claim they did, then there would have been even larger protests that went on across the WHOLE of the country.

Most Thais I talk to are sceptical of saying anything of a political or sensitive nature in front of a farang, even though they've known me for close to 10 years, and I never offer them opinions as to who is right and who is wrong either. .

Why all the coups then? you think Thaksin invented corruption ? he elevated it to a different level so that his opponents had their wings clipped. Now it's their turn again.

[gamini]

Start by cleaning your own house. Wasn't there a scandal just a few days ago about the PM's brother appointing his son a position. Nepotism and patronage are related.

Agree 100% other examples are YL and her merry gang. It happens all over and this should be changed to make progress. Now patronage is not so bad when it happens in private companies.. but in governments and public service its a cancer.

Booom!! you can't help yourself can you you see an opportunity to bring the Shins into an thread.

I pity guys like you, you seem unable to move away from the past, the steps to prevent repeating occurrences should be made today, so that tomorrow we don't make the same mistakes as yesterday!!

The biggest repeating occurrence in Modern Thai history is the Military coups. Prevent them from happening by severely punishing those who stage them would be the best "attitude adjustment this country could ever possibly see. It would make those who plan and plot them, which is subversive in nature, which is against the Law, something the junta lovers seem to enjoy overlooking.

Coups are not the answer to the problems, they are the cause of them.

You bitched and moaned about the Yingluck Regime not being accountable but yet you are quite happy to "go with the flow" when there's none now.

You were one of the very vocal people back in 2014 who praised this coup from the high heavens and stated .. "But this coup is different" when it's clearly no different to the previous ones, if anything, what's been going on has been worse.

That is only your private opinion. Most Thais would would not agree with you. Nothing could be worse than the Shin regime.

[baboon]

^^

Pol Pot? No?

[Srikcir]

There should be a national fight against the patronage system in Thailand’s bureaucracy.

But the military regime's efforts through its Five Rivers surrogates simply lacks credibility.

The Thai military high command exists solely through patronage. Some examples of this practice is the membership in the NCPO, NCPO use of Article 44 to make changes in the government bureaucracy and NCPO's proposed Senate membership in the 2015 draft charter. It is patronage based on trust and not merit.

But it is also hypocritical of the Democrats and Pheu Thai Party to present themselves as champions against patronage. History points differently- they both created their own patronage systems when in power. While Thaksin presented himself as a man of the people, he did so from the same elitist viewpoint as Abhisit.

All three of these political forces adhere to the same kreng jai tradition to promote the pii/nong patronage system, albeit in different approaches with different goals but with the same self-interest. For more detailed discussion see http://www.internationalcrimeauthors.com/?p=4938

Given the deep cultural heritage of the Thai patronage system, fundamental change might have to come from Thai political outsiders and/or from external influences who are not committed to the rewards of the Thai political patronage system. Such force of change is not yet apparent.