Questions About Calculating Overstay Length, Fine, and Tourist Visa

[SeaMike01]

I arrived in Thailand on February 17th using the 30-day tourist visa exemption status. My intention was to renew the exempt status for 30 days, but do to a variety of mishaps wasn't able to do so.

I just got a new job, so now need to pay my overstay fine, and get a new tourist visa. Eventually I will get a non-immigrant B visa, but I just need to "get legal" for now.

My first question is, if I arrived on February 17th, when would the 90-day overstay rule kick in? As I understand it I was "legal" from February 17th - March 17th and I should calculate my overstay from then. Therefore April 17th, would be 30-day overstay, May 17th would be 60 days and June 17th would be 90 days. Is that accurate?

I'm asking because I'm expecting two different payments to arrive in June, and I just need to make sure I can wait that long to do my border run, pay the fine, and get the new visa. Otherwise I need to take emergency measures to make a border run before May 17th. (Yes, I already realize that in ideal circumstances I should resolve the overstay immediately, but that's not possible at the moment.)

Secondly, I need to calculate the cost of renewal. I know that the fine is 500 baht per day with a 20,000 baht maximum. I'll have to pay the maximum which comes out to about (US$569), plus the 1,900 baht fee (US$54) and the cost of the visa run service. Is that correct?

Third, should I just get the 30-day tourist visa, and plan on doing that every month until my employer provides the paperwork for the non-immigrant B visa?

Lastly, for someone in my situation who will be working Monday - Friday, would you recommend making the trip to Cambodia, or Laos? At this point it appears that Laos I the better option. Do you agree?

Your sage advice and wisdom is appreciated. Thank you.

[elviajero]

• Your overstay started on March 18th and the 90th day will be June 15th.
• You have already overstayed more than 40 days so you will be fined 20,000 baht.
• A SETV is 1,000 baht.
• You might be denied re-entery if returning using visa exempt entry immediately after an overstay so you should get a SETV.
• SETV gives you 60 days that can be extended at immigration by 30 days (1,900 baht).
• You should expect to be limited to 2/3 SETV's back to back from the same Embassy/Consulate.
• You are not legally allowed to work with a tourist visa or any visa without a work permit.

[FritsSikkink]

"but I just need to "get legal" for now."

you can't as you are working without a work permit.

[johnatong]

You will be getting dangerously close to being banned.

Follow elviajero's advice and do not attempt any further visa exempt entries because a 40+ day overstay will be red flag to immigration officers and the chance of being refused entry will be high.

Getting caught working without a WP or appropriate visa can also prove painful resulting in possible fines, jail time and deportation.

[seancbk]

"but I just need to "get legal" for now."

you can't as you are working without a work permit.

He has been offered a job. That is not the same as 'working'.

He clearly stated he plans to get a Non B, which I took to mean he knows that to get a Work Permit he first needs a Non B visa.

[johnatong]

"but I just need to "get legal" for now."

you can't as you are working without a work permit.

He has been offered a job. That is not the same as 'working'.

He clearly stated he plans to get a Non B, which I took to mean he knows that to get a Work Permit he first needs a Non B visa.

If you read carefully the OP says this !

"I just got a new job, so now need to pay my overstay fine, and get a new tourist visa. Eventually I will get a non-immigrant B visa, but I just need to "get legal" for now."

No mention of the word "offered"

The OP then further sets out his 'plan'

"Third, should I just get the 30-day tourist visa, and plan on doing that every month until my employer provides the paperwork for the non-immigrant B visa?"

Note the word "employer" not prospective employer !

​I would guess that the probabilities point toward the OP working illegally.

I am sure the OP will clear up this issue by saying he will NOT be working until he has a WP and appropriate visA

[seancbk]

"but I just need to "get legal" for now."

you can't as you are working without a work permit.

He has been offered a job. That is not the same as 'working'.

He clearly stated he plans to get a Non B, which I took to mean he knows that to get a Work Permit he first needs a Non B visa.

If you read carefully the OP says this !

"I just got a new job, so now need to pay my overstay fine, and get a new tourist visa. Eventually I will get a non-immigrant B visa, but I just need to "get legal" for now."

No mention of the word "offered"

The OP then further sets out his 'plan'

"Third, should I just get the 30-day tourist visa, and plan on doing that every month until my employer provides the paperwork for the non-immigrant B visa?"

Note the word "employer" not prospective employer !

​I would guess that the probabilities point toward the OP working illegally.

I am sure the OP will clear up this issue by saying he will NOT be working until he has a WP and appropriate visA

I get what you mean, but it is symantics.

If I had just got a new job but wasn't starting for a month I would say "I just got a new job" No need to mention when I start.

Admittedly he does seem to be thinking he can start working without a WP.

However, it is not my business, or yours or anyone else's if he want to work without a WP.

[johnatong]

"but I just need to "get legal" for now."

you can't as you are working without a work permit.

He has been offered a job. That is not the same as 'working'.

He clearly stated he plans to get a Non B, which I took to mean he knows that to get a Work Permit he first needs a Non B visa.

If you read carefully the OP says this !

"I just got a new job, so now need to pay my overstay fine, and get a new tourist visa. Eventually I will get a non-immigrant B visa, but I just need to "get legal" for now."

No mention of the word "offered"

The OP then further sets out his 'plan'

"Third, should I just get the 30-day tourist visa, and plan on doing that every month until my employer provides the paperwork for the non-immigrant B visa?"

Note the word "employer" not prospective employer !

​I would guess that the probabilities point toward the OP working illegally.

I am sure the OP will clear up this issue by saying he will NOT be working until he has a WP and appropriate visA

I get what you mean, but it is symantics.

If I had just got a new job but wasn't starting for a month I would say "I just got a new job" No need to mention when I start.

Admittedly he does seem to be thinking he can start working without a WP.

However, it is not my business, or yours or anyone else's if he want to work without a WP.

To be frank as long as the OP understands the potential pitfalls associated with his actions I could care less about what he does,

As you say "not my business" and I never claimed it was.

[Colabamumbai]

A "new job" could mean he had an old job.

[Suradit69]

"but I just need to "get legal" for now."

you can't as you are working without a work permit.

He has been offered a job. That is not the same as 'working'.

He clearly stated he plans to get a Non B, which I took to mean he knows that to get a Work Permit he first needs a Non B visa.

If you read carefully the OP says this !

"I just got a new job, so now need to pay my overstay fine, and get a new tourist visa. Eventually I will get a non-immigrant B visa, but I just need to "get legal" for now."

No mention of the word "offered"

The OP then further sets out his 'plan'

"Third, should I just get the 30-day tourist visa, and plan on doing that every month until my employer provides the paperwork for the non-immigrant B visa?"

Note the word "employer" not prospective employer !

​I would guess that the probabilities point toward the OP working illegally.

I am sure the OP will clear up this issue by saying he will NOT be working until he has a WP and appropriate visA

I get what you mean, but it is symantics.

If I had just got a new job but wasn't starting for a month I would say "I just got a new job" No need to mention when I start.

Admittedly he does seem to be thinking he can start working without a WP.

However, it is not my business, or yours or anyone else's if he want to work without a WP.

He asked for advice (on a public message board) and got it. Responding to the request is hardly unwarranted meddling in his business.

[SeaMike01]

I have been hired and have not yet started working. I want to rectify my visa status as quickly as possible so that I can legally work in Thailand. Therefore I am evaluating the requirements, and my options, to find out what I need to do. If I wasn't in a "pinch", so to speak, I would have done these things already. Now that I've been offered a job, I'm trying to make sure that I can keep it, given my current circumstances.

[lopburi3]

Third, should I just get the 30-day tourist visa, and plan on doing that every month until my employer provides the paperwork for the non-immigrant B visa?

You can not legally work in Thailand on a tourist visa or visa exempt entry so you really need paperwork for the B visa ASAP.

[elviajero]

I have been hired and have not yet started working. I want to rectify my visa status as quickly as possible so that I can legally work in Thailand. Therefore I am evaluating the requirements, and my options, to find out what I need to do. If I wasn't in a "pinch", so to speak, I would have done these things already. Now that I've been offered a job, I'm trying to make sure that I can keep it, given my current circumstances.

Your immediate aim should be to exit and clear the overstay asap. If you get caught and prosecuted for overstay you will be deported and banned for 5 years.

[johnatong]

I have been hired and have not yet started working. I want to rectify my visa status as quickly as possible so that I can legally work in Thailand. Therefore I am evaluating the requirements, and my options, to find out what I need to do. If I wasn't in a "pinch", so to speak, I would have done these things already. Now that I've been offered a job, I'm trying to make sure that I can keep it, given my current circumstances.

Has your employer applied for your work permit ?

You will not get a "B" visa anywhere in the region until you can produce a letter from the Labour Office which confirms an application has been made and accepted.

[SeaMike01]

I've been told I'm on a probationary period, so I don't think I will be receiving the B-visa paperwork until the probationary period ends. This seems to be the standard for the industry.

[elviajero]

I've been told I'm on a probationary period, so I don't think I will be receiving the B-visa paperwork until the probationary period ends. This seems to be the standard for the industry.

Standard but illegal.

[beano2274]

I've been told I'm on a probationary period, so I don't think I will be receiving the B-visa paperwork until the probationary period ends. This seems to be the standard for the industry.

so working without a Work Permit, highly illegal, is it a Thai Company or an international one?

[johnatong]

I've been told I'm on a probationary period, so I don't think I will be receiving the B-visa paperwork until the probationary period ends. This seems to be the standard for the industry.

Just be aware that it is you who assumes the majority of risk and who has most to lose as a result of being caught working illegally.

[SeaMike01]

I'll be working the education field, similar to many other foreigners here. (I won't be teaching English, but another subject.) This school, along with every other one I've talked to and interviewed with has a three-to-five month probationary period. In this case five months.

Is it legal, illegal, in-between? I don't know! But it is the industry standard. The schools all seem to have a system in place for handling new foreign teachers, which includes placing them on probationary status before "officially" hiring them.

If it's not acceptable to Immigration then perhaps half the teachers in the country are subject to fines and deportation. Maybe the Education Minister has already discussed the issue with the Director of Immigration. Who knows. All schools seems to be doing it, and it's not up to me how they want to operate their educational system.

I'm simply trying to get advice about the best way to resolve my visa (and timing) issues. My preference would have been to already have the visa and not be in this situation. I'm operating under my current circumstances as they exist, however, and doing my best to keep this job offer while complying with the law as quickly as possible.

[beano2274]

It is illegal for a school to employ you without a Work Permit and also the correct visa, are you employed directly by the school or by an agency, as agencies always use this kind of tactic.

I worked in schools and Universities in Thailand and never was on a probation period. Clearing 20,000baht as overstay is going to take a chunk out of your salary.

Are you sure that the school is giving you a probation period and not setting you up to work until October (next major school holiday) then kicking you out? As they do not want the have to pay for the visa and a work permit, then the next guy comes along for a 3 month probation period (but is again until the next major holiday).

[johnatong]

I'll be working the education field, similar to many other foreigners here. (I won't be teaching English, but another subject.) This school, along with every other one I've talked to and interviewed with has a three-to-five month probationary period. In this case five months.

Is it legal, illegal, in-between? I don't know! But it is the industry standard. The schools all seem to have a system in place for handling new foreign teachers, which includes placing them on probationary status before "officially" hiring them.

If it's not acceptable to Immigration then perhaps half the teachers in the country are subject to fines and deportation. Maybe the Education Minister has already discussed the issue with the Director of Immigration. Who knows. All schools seems to be doing it, and it's not up to me how they want to operate their educational system.

I'm simply trying to get advice about the best way to resolve my visa (and timing) issues. My preference would have been to already have the visa and not be in this situation. I'm operating under my current circumstances as they exist, however, and doing my best to keep this job offer while complying with the law as quickly as possible.

Illegal !

Anyone who accepts a job with such conditions is taking a big personal risk !

The "teacher" scams. will of course, become fewer over time as it becomes increasingly difficult to secure tourist visas. The long stay tourist visa "teacher" is now an endangered species.

Do not be surprised if the "B" visa paperwork never materialises.

[SeaMike01]

Why couldn't he extend his 30 day visa like he says he intended but "variety of mishaps wasn't able to do so"? It take only a morning to extend.

Obviously I would have done this if I had been able to, but my funds ran out, and the additional funds I was supposed to receive from overseas were first delayed and then not sent. I was left unexpectedly without travel funds for a period of time and thus unable to simply extend for 30 days at that time.

Then my other living expenses came due, the fine accrued, and I didn't have enough to pay the fine or go on a visa run. Of course I had applied for jobs too, but Songkran came and went, everything was delayed.

Now here we are in May. I've finally received job offers and am ready to move forward to resolve the visa issue and begin working.

[SeaMike01]

I'll be working the education field, similar to many other foreigners here. (I won't be teaching English, but another subject.) This school, along with every other one I've talked to and interviewed with has a three-to-five month probationary period. In this case five months.

Is it legal, illegal, in-between? I don't know! But it is the industry standard. The schools all seem to have a system in place for handling new foreign teachers, which includes placing them on probationary status before "officially" hiring them.

If it's not acceptable to Immigration then perhaps half the teachers in the country are subject to fines and deportation. Maybe the Education Minister has already discussed the issue with the Director of Immigration. Who knows. All schools seems to be doing it, and it's not up to me how they want to operate their educational system.

I'm simply trying to get advice about the best way to resolve my visa (and timing) issues. My preference would have been to already have the visa and not be in this situation. I'm operating under my current circumstances as they exist, however, and doing my best to keep this job offer while complying with the law as quickly as possible.

Illegal !

Anyone who accepts a job with such conditions is taking a big personal risk !

The "teacher" scams. will of course, become fewer over time as it becomes increasingly difficult to secure tourist visas. The long stay tourist visa "teacher" is now an endangered species.

Do not be surprised if the "B" visa paperwork never materialises.

I'm not sure that you're as well-informed about this issue as you seem to think you are. These are very reputable schools. I highly doubt that they're running "teacher scams".

[FritsSikkink]

I'll be working the education field, similar to many other foreigners here. (I won't be teaching English, but another subject.) This school, along with every other one I've talked to and interviewed with has a three-to-five month probationary period. In this case five months.

Is it legal, illegal, in-between? I don't know! But it is the industry standard. The schools all seem to have a system in place for handling new foreign teachers, which includes placing them on probationary status before "officially" hiring them.

If it's not acceptable to Immigration then perhaps half the teachers in the country are subject to fines and deportation. Maybe the Education Minister has already discussed the issue with the Director of Immigration. Who knows. All schools seems to be doing it, and it's not up to me how they want to operate their educational system.

I'm simply trying to get advice about the best way to resolve my visa (and timing) issues. My preference would have been to already have the visa and not be in this situation. I'm operating under my current circumstances as they exist, however, and doing my best to keep this job offer while complying with the law as quickly as possible.

Illegal !

Anyone who accepts a job with such conditions is taking a big personal risk !

The "teacher" scams. will of course, become fewer over time as it becomes increasingly difficult to secure tourist visas. The long stay tourist visa "teacher" is now an endangered species.

Do not be surprised if the "B" visa paperwork never materialises.

I'm not sure that you're as well-informed about this issue as you seem to think you are. These are very reputable schools. I highly doubt that they're running "teacher scams".

He is a lot better informed than you, It is illegal to work without a work permit. It is illegal to stay in the country without a visa. You break both laws and are looking for excuses. The school is breaking the law too so i doubt the "is very reputable" statement. Hope you don't teach law.

[Doc46]

There is no excuse for Overstay,,,,You always calculate the worst scenario before you go to an other Country and if you Don't have the Money to cover that, you just Can't afford to go ,,,,So that's why you get in the Shit Sherlock,,,,

[Squeegee]

I don't think we're talking about the evil agency types or chew 'em up, spit 'em out schools per se.

He seems to be trying to say that he's spoken with a number of schools and found a standard practice in his research as well. I think the missing link between his perception and the replies he's been getting is that the practices he is thinking about should include the paperwork process being started immediately. The three month probation is common but is usually a part of the contract, like by the end of or during the first three months of a twelve month contract the school reserves the right to [whatever... etc.]

It's very common that schools will start their teacher even though their paperwork isn't ready for the trip to Laos for the right visa yet. That's the situation the OP is in now. He considers this "industry standard" but should know this would be a case of weeks not months.

That's the key. If they've offered you a job and you've accepted the process should be underway from the beginning. If you are expected to work your 3 month probation on a tourist visa before they start your process then that is definitely NOT standard practice by anyone other than cowboys, so then you should indeed listen hard to the ladies shrieking illegal, illegal!

[FritsSikkink]

I don't think we're talking about the evil agency types or chew 'em up, spit 'em out schools per se.

He seems to be trying to say that he's spoken with a number of schools and found a standard practice in his research as well. I think the missing link between his perception and the replies he's been getting is that the practices he is thinking about should include the paperwork process being started immediately. The three month probation is common but is usually a part of the contract, like by the end of or during the first three months of a twelve month contract the school reserves the right to [whatever... etc.]

It's very common that schools will start their teacher even though their paperwork isn't ready for the trip to Laos for the right visa yet. That's the situation the OP is in now. He considers this "industry standard" but should know this would be a case of weeks not months.

That's the key. If they've offered you a job and you've accepted the process should be underway from the beginning. If you are expected to work your 3 month probation on a tourist visa before they start your process then that is definitely NOT standard practice by anyone other than cowboys, so then you should indeed listen hard to the ladies shrieking illegal, illegal!

The OP has 5 month probation and doesn't expect a work permit / visa before this ends.

[beano2274]

Who is gonna pay for the Work Permit is that stated in your contract, like i said in October when the School term finishes you will still find yourself without the correct Visa and Work Permit, a unexpected and unannounced visit from Immigration beforehand to the school will have you and some other teachers either climbing over the fences to escape or being arrested, this has happened before, even in the reputable schools.

[Ronuk]

Weeks of over stay and working illegally. I can see this is all going to end badly. I have never been in the situation but are the Labour Ministry and/or Immigration liable to actually issue a work Visa when someone already has a large overstay in there Passport even though it may of been recently cleared. Surely it must raise suspicion that they have or may have been working? Do they want to see proof of funds in order to support yourself?

[BritTim]

Weeks of over stay and working illegally. I can see this is all going to end badly. I have never been in the situation but are the Labour Ministry and/or Immigration liable to actually issue a work Visa when someone already has a large overstay in there Passport even though it may of been recently cleared. Surely it must raise suspicion that they have or may have been working? Do they want to see proof of funds in order to support yourself?

I doubt the overstay will be an issue with Non B visa or work permit. However, trying to return visa exempt after the overstay would be foolhardy. Even returning with a tourist visa, there might be questions about how you can support yourself without working.