Eager to heal old wounds, Obama to visit Hiroshima

[willyumiii]

...megalomaniac seeking The Peace Prize...or something....

Where have you been?

He received the Nobel Peace Prize quite a while ago.

I bet that really irritates the Obama hating war mongers out there.

[JDGRUEN]

The problem with 'history has shown', ideas is that history is written with hindsight and many excuses used to justify unjustifiable behaviour. The US had spent huge amounts of time and money developing the nukes and the leadership probably just thought it a great opportunity to try them out. See if they worked as advertised.

Your speculation is total bunk... The estimates of probably loss of American / Allied life in a Japan invasion was made at the time ... close to 250,000 projected lives to be lost... Japan ruthlessly started - provoked the war with a dastardly act. Japan conducted the war from China, Japan, Thailand, the South Pacific Islands to Include the Philippines and much more. The treatment of allied prisoners of war was barbaric. Japan killed hundreds of thousands of civilians... Japan prosecuted ruthless wars and, refused to abide by the rules of war and treatment of prisoners, and killed hundreds of thousands deserved no less than what they got in a call of would America and the Allies lose even more. The Japan military at first even after the second bomb refused to surrender and plotted killing the emperor. Your knowledge of history is sorely lacking.

[JDGRUEN]

...megalomaniac seeking The Peace Prize...or something....

Where have you been?

He received the Nobel Peace Prize quite a while ago.

president_obama_nobel_peace_prize_winner_2009_pinback_button-r4893a43e2c8445368cd98e60585bf292_x7efx_1024.jpg

I bet that really irritates the Obama hating war mongers out there.

The Peace Prize given for absolutely NO REASON nor justification. Much regret has been voiced by those responsible for this silly cheapening of a prestigious award for a man whose only attribute was talking in platitudes..

Edited May 11, 2016 by JDGRUEN

[arjunadawn]

In principle I have no problem with healing wounds. However, the notion that such an act can heal such wounds, or even step in that direction is nonsense. The mere suggestion that such act heals an atomic bomb being dropped on grandma reflects a world self absorbed in selfies, ME, appearances, and the vacant generally. Its actually more of an appeal to division, couched in outreach. In fact, it is one more appeal to embracing victim status- by decree.

This has nothing to do with 'healing old wounds.' Why? Because we can measure the motivation behind this act relative to the prior acts in the apology category. Obama has been apologizing since the day he took office, for the real and imagined. Moreover, we can characterize the apologies as less useful for healing then for creating new wounds- self inflicted. With regard to Obama's grovel tour no where is there evidence of dividend. The apologies then appear as no more then genuflection!

So, when we read about Obama healing old wounds, its nonsense. Obama's goal is entirely based on creating new wounds- America's. Like a magician, Obama wants our attention focused on WWII, but the renewed attack is actually taking place in 2016. Once again, Obama employs people as victims as devices to assault a target twice removed- America. Wholly Machiavellian.

[JDGRUEN]

Two atom bombs killed 130,000. Firebombing of Tokyo killed 140,000. Long term deaths atomic 210,000 as opposed to high end Tokyo estimates of 203,000. 67 Japanese cities bombed causing 500,000 deaths.

To put the number of deaths in context review the numbers below.

Deaths WW2

Russia (USSR) 26 million

China 20 million

Japan 3 million

UK 450,000

USA 419,000

Australia 40,000

Thailand 7,600

Ireland 100

Switzerland 100

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#USSR

Just like going to the bars.

It is less expensive if you show up late.

and you have a better chance of bringing home the "prize".

The USA financed the war for China to fight back and supplied much war material ... Great Britain without the aid of the U.S. would have certainly suffered more greatly and perhaps even had a German Invasion of the British Isles. Australia generously provided brave and effective fighters to the WWII War Effort ... and were instrumental in many campaigns. Russia did do a mostly unsung heroic job of fighting off the Nazis, combated the Japanese and were ready to help invade Japan.

Had it not been for the American intervention - entry into both theaters of war in WWII - ALL would have been lost except that the soviets may have been able to fight to a stalemate without the U.S. and the allies fighting Germany from the other side. Your statistics prove nothing except that The USA - providing in great numbers of ship loads much needed war material before actual entry into the war -- helped win WWII in every theater. Your simple and simplistic statistics prove nothing except that you have a sophomoric understanding of even the basic elements of the heroic actions of the United States in conducting a winning campaign to help end WWII aiding all allies to the ultimate degree.... And ended the Pacific theater of that awful war by dropping two extraordinarily powerful bombs on Japan to demonstrate to them the futility of continuing the war.

[JDGRUEN]

Good. He can apologize for Hiroshima and then stop by France on the way back and apologize for the Normandy invasion. Maybe he'll apologize because it was the US's fault that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. I can't wait for the pictures of Obama bowing to Abe.

Yeah its really terrible that this American President should go anywhere, do anything say anything. Perhaps while he is visiting Japan he could visit Vietnam, I am sure he would be impressed how the Vietnamese are looking to the future.

Yes Vietnam looking to the future - as they rapidly dump the tenets of communism for the love of capitalism. The Vietnamese are ever so quickly finding out that their beloved communism was a false god and the way to prosper is amazingly -- make a slow march to capitalism ...

[Scotwight]

Two atom bombs killed 130,000. Firebombing of Tokyo killed 140,000. Long term deaths atomic 210,000 as opposed to high end Tokyo estimates of 203,000. 67 Japanese cities bombed causing 500,000 deaths.

To put the number of deaths in context review the numbers below.

Deaths WW2

Russia (USSR) 26 million

China 20 million

Japan 3 million

UK 450,000

USA 419,000

Australia 40,000

Thailand 7,600

Ireland 100

Switzerland 100

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#USSR

Just like going to the bars.

It is less expensive if you show up late.

and you have a better chance of bringing home the "prize".

WW II the USA spent 341 billion. Britain spent 120 billion. Who's your daddy?

Edited May 11, 2016 by Scotwight

[Trouble]

The problem with 'history has shown', ideas is that history is written with hindsight and many excuses used to justify unjustifiable behaviour. The US had spent huge amounts of time and money developing the nukes and the leadership probably just thought it a great opportunity to try them out. See if they worked as advertised.

Your speculation is total bunk... The estimates of probably loss of American / Allied life in a Japan invasion was made at the time ... close to 250,000 projected lives to be lost... Japan ruthlessly started - provoked the war with a dastardly act. Japan conducted the war from China, Japan, Thailand, the South Pacific Islands to Include the Philippines and much more. The treatment of allied prisoners of war was barbaric. Japan killed hundreds of thousands of civilians... Japan prosecuted ruthless wars and, refused to abide by the rules of war and treatment of prisoners, and killed hundreds of thousands deserved no less than what they got in a call of would America and the Allies lose even more. The Japan military at first even after the second bomb refused to surrender and plotted killing the emperor. Your knowledge of history is sorely lacking.

Japan's brutality started back in 1910 with its annexation of Korea then on to Manchuria. They were brutal in their treatment of the Koreans and Chinese. The Japanese have dragged their feet to this day dealing with any kind of apologies for their actions against other Asian nations. Their history books gloss over the subjects. While I don't expect the younger generation to feel responsible for the actions of their grandparents, neither do I feel it is necessary for today's president to make this gesture. It is all about legacy for Obama and he is grasping at straws to try to leave a legacy of some sort. Visiting Cuba and now Hiroshima is nothing but grand standing in my opinion. I do not hate Obama but in reality he has accomplished very little in eight years at the helm. He has been mostly ineffectual and that is a direct result of his inability to understand opposing views and come to terms with the fact that not all think like he does. He has been totally inept at working with others. He just doesn't know how.

[NeverSure]

To be fair, Great Britain did a lot of the heavy lifting against Japan in Asia in the beginning. The allies including the US were busy elsewhere - the US all over the Pacific as well as in Europe. Thailand allied with Japan in WWII but some would say they were invaded and had little choice.

The British hit the Japanese hard in Thailand, Burma and elsewhere. The US arrived and it might be fair to say that the British and US drove the Japanese out of SE Asia. It might be fair to say that Thailand and Burma had been conquered countries. Of course each country has its own spin on history but that's my take including the myth that Thailand was never "colonized".

Cheers.

[IAMHERE]

Two atom bombs killed 130,000. Firebombing of Tokyo killed 140,000. Long term deaths atomic 210,000 as opposed to high end Tokyo estimates of 203,000. 67 Japanese cities bombed causing 500,000 deaths.

To put the number of deaths in context review the numbers below.

Deaths WW2

Russia (USSR) 26 million

China 20 million

Japan 3 million

UK 450,000

USA 419,000

Australia 40,000

Thailand 7,600

Ireland 100

Switzerland 100

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#USSR

No Germans ?

[GOLDBUGGY]

If I was an Obama Adviser I would first suggest he make a stop over first to "Iwon Jima" and remember the 6,821 Young American Soldiers that died their and never came home again, and the other 19,217 who were wounded. That should keep things in prospective and help him remember why they dropped the "A Bomb" in the first place.

These American Casualties on Iwo Jima would have been muted 20 fold compared to a full out invasion on the Island of Japan itself. In Soldier losses on both sides, and Civilian casualties. It was clear by this time that Japan was going to lose the war and were given several chances to surrender, which they refused all of them. Even after dropping the first A Bomb.

So I don't see why after 71 years the Americans should apologize to Japan, or anyone else, for this. It was the Leaders of Japan who attached the United States first and without fare warning, as they were not at war with Japan then, and got them in that war in the first place. It was the Leaders of Japan who refused to surrender when it was perfectly clear they were going to lose this war. It was the Leaders of Japan who put there young pilots in aircraft loaded with bombs and not teaching them how to land this airplane as they were not expected to come back. It was the Leaders of Japan who sacrificed 21,000 of its own Soldiers and people on the island of Imo Jima, knowing full well they could not win this battle.

So in my view and take on this, It should be the Leaders of Japan who should be apologizing to the Japanese People and not the President of the United States. Obama has no business in being there and discrediting former presidents who were forced to make a tough decision at that time and place. .

[GOLDBUGGY]

Seems pretty clear he is not going there to apologize. Did Japan apologize for Pearl Harbor, rape of China, etc etc? "We're very sorry. Sorry we lost". Some Chinese still alive suffering from biological weapons testing during war. Japan won't even acknowledge their existence.

Yes, I agree that he will not apologize, but his actions do not make this perfectly clear. You can read between the lines here and many will.

When you go to the place where your country dropped the A Bomb and pay your respects to the ones who died from that, and then try to promote a World without Nuclear Weapons, when you are the only country who ever used them, to me it is a round about way of saying you are sorry you did that.

Let the Japanese Prime Minister got to Iwon Jima and pay his respects to the American Soldiers that died on Japanese Soil, which he would never do. The only clear message I see coming from Obama is that he has no business being there at all as the President of the United States. Make his speak someplace else in Japan if he must, but not there.

[boomerangutang]

I'm glad it's Obama going to Hiroshima to pay respects. Obama is a gentleman who knows how to speak. If it was Trump, can you imagine what a screw-up it would be? Trump would offend everyone in the vicinity. He'd be like a second atom bomb. He can't help but shoot his mouth off. Even when he tries to be decent, he verbally soils himself.

[craigt3365]

...megalomaniac seeking The Peace Prize...or something....

Where have you been?

He received the Nobel Peace Prize quite a while ago.

president_obama_nobel_peace_prize_winner_2009_pinback_button-r4893a43e2c8445368cd98e60585bf292_x7efx_1024.jpg

I bet that really irritates the Obama hating war mongers out there.

The Peace Prize given for absolutely NO REASON nor justification. Much regret has been voiced by those responsible for this silly cheapening of a prestigious award for a man whose only attribute was talking in platitudes..

Not true. They gave their reasons and justifications. Perhaps they regretted it later, but it was initially done for a reason. And awarded by a very select group of individuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Nobel_Peace_Prize

The 2009 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to United States President Barack Obama for his "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between people".^[1] The Norwegian Nobel Committee announced the award on October 9, 2009, citing Obama's promotion of nuclear nonproliferation^[2] and a "new climate" in international relations fostered by Obama, especially in reaching out to the Muslim world.^[3][4]

Like it or not, it was done for a reason.

[craigt3365]

I'm glad it's Obama going to Hiroshima to pay respects. Obama is a gentleman who knows how to speak. If it was Trump, can you imagine what a screw-up it would be? Trump would offend everyone in the vicinity. He'd be like a second atom bomb. He can't help but shoot his mouth off. Even when he tries to be decent, he verbally soils himself.

Love or hate Obama, he is a great orator. One of the best.

[GOLDBUGGY]

History shows the only reason the big bombs were dropped on Japan was to prevent Russia from joining the fight in the pacific, piece of the pie.

Russia had finished off Germany and was poised to attack the Japanese.

The war would have ended very soon without the big bombs.

America did not want Russia involved in post war Asia.

Me Thinks you need to go back and re-check your History Books.

History shows us that the dropping of the Atomic on Hiroshima actually caused the Russian to join and declare war on Japan, and not back away as you suggested. Russia knew the war would be over soon after that and wanted a piece of the pie from them to. So shortly after the Americans dropped the A Bomb, Russia declared war on Japan, and then they invaded "Manchuria".

The Russians had lost Manchuria to Japan in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-05 so now they wanted it back. As a result of this loss in 1905, this was the driving force behind the Russian Revolution and the start of Communism. But Russia didn't keep Manchuria very long this time after taking it back from Japan, as after the war China started there own revolution and soon took it back from Russia. Or most of it anyway.

Russia finished off Germany? That is a new one on me. Until the United States entered this war Russia was losing the war against Germany and badly. The Germans could have taken Moscow but instead changed there plan to Stalingrad. Stalingrad was the gateway to the north which held a lot of Russian Oil and what Germany needed the most. But Germany found it too difficult to fight a war on two fronts. So they withdrew there troops to fight more in the Western Front. Had America not joined, they had no need to do that.

America was not afraid of Russia in any shape, manner, or form back then. After all, it the USA who had the Atomic Bomb and not Russia. Germany was close then to, but Russia never even heard of the Atomic Bomb and until it was dropped. Russia had far more worries about the USA then they did of them. Churchill didn't trust the Russians and neither did Patton. It seems to me that they were both right then.

The war would have ended very soon even if Russia wasn't in this war. For most of it Russia wasn't at war with Japan and didn't fight against them anyway. That was not the problem! Or ever in question that Japan was going to lose this war and they were going to lose it soon. The deciding factor on using the A Bomb was the amount of casualties they would have suffered by invading Japan, and if they did not use this bomb.When there estimated came in, it was then, and only then, that they went ahead and used the bombs instead.

You must have gotten your history from Russian Books, as none that I read said anything about what you said.

[GOLDBUGGY]

The problem with 'history has shown', ideas is that history is written with hindsight and many excuses used to justify unjustifiable behaviour. The US had spent huge amounts of time and money developing the nukes and the leadership probably just thought it a great opportunity to try them out. See if they worked as advertised.

They did it because Alberta Einstein sent a personal letter to the President of the United States and told him that the Germans were well on there way in making such a bomb and as it turned out he was correct in his quote.

They already had the V.2 Rockets, which with a bomb like this attached would have been deadly. So the USA decided they needed to play catch-up in a hurry. Eat or be eaten, so to speak.

As it also turned out later, it was these same German Scientist who helped place a man on the moon. So they certainly knew what they were doing, when it came to that.

War of any kind is Unjustifiable Behavior. Unfortunately with people like Hitler, Stalin, and Mussolini, it seems that it is the only way in which you can stop them. I have no doubt that by using the Atomic Bomb saved many American Soldiers Lives. Had Japan or Germany had this bomb first you can be sure there would not be any hesitation in them using it first either. Especially on the UK and Australia.

Which reminds me. I don't recall seeing the German Chancellor going to London lately and to lay down flowers and bow his head, for the lives lost during the London Bombing. .

[JDGRUEN]

The Peace Prize given for absolutely NO REASON nor justification. Much regret has been voiced by those responsible for this silly cheapening of a prestigious award for a man whose only attribute was talking in platitudes..

Not true. They gave their reasons and justifications. Perhaps they regretted it later, but it was initially done for a reason. And awarded by a very select group of individuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Nobel_Peace_Prize

The 2009 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to United States President Barack Obama for his "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between people".^[1] The Norwegian Nobel Committee announced the award on October 9, 2009, citing Obama's promotion of nuclear nonproliferation^[2] and a "new climate" in international relations fostered by Obama, especially in reaching out to the Muslim world.^[3][4]

Like it or not, it was done for a reason.

By that time Obama had not done anything extraordinary... He has never done anything except make long winded speeches filled with nothing but platitudes... Nothing Concrete at that time and after

[craigt3365]

By that time Obama had not done anything extraordinary... He has never done anything except make long winded speeches filled with nothing but platitudes... Nothing Concrete at that time and after

Obviously, the highly esteemed committee thought Obama had done something extraordinary.

Let's get back to the topic, please.

[derator01]

No more conspiracy posts, please. Plenty of other sites out there for that. Ours is not one.

[Hammock]

Goldbuggy, you have posted a really interesting interpretation of the WW2 history with the extraordinary exceptional leading role of US army in it.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Hammock