Has Bangkok become too western?

[Briggsy]

Blogging passed off as journalism.

[kannot]

No....

Thailand has moved from a third world country to a more developed country exciting people worldwide who visit.

I'm always at a loss to understand why many tourists and expats post negative content about Thailand, while many expats have lived here for years and the same tourists return year after year?

Perhaps it’s time for them to return to their home countries for a lengthy stay and experience all the expenses, tragedies, civil unrest, unhealthy food, confused women and all the problems first hand.

Then they can evaluate a fair comparison and reset their thinking.

I go back once a year and appreciate my home country even more especially its National Health service, stay only for my Wifes sake.....and her money

[HenryB]

Well if you mean has Bangkok become too western Yes if you mean the people are living longer they have western medicine and more vaccines ie Polio Vaccine you are right.

[Mickmouse1]

Can you be more specific and define your meaning of becoming "western"? BKK ? Or some parts? Do you mean the mushrooming churches or the many kfc,macs,pizza ut or wat?ops H....???? most definitely Thailand bends over when the £$ are seen.

[jybkk]

People continue conflating modernization and westernization.

Bangkok is getting more modern, but despite that, it is VERY different than western cities. The 'old thai ways' aren't replaced by 'western ways', they are being replaced by 'new thai ways'.

[Plutojames88]

Not long ago they marched to do away with their own freedoms.

Hardly

[phoenixdoglover]

I feel sorry for the author. He quit his job, left England, traveled around Asia, and decided to stay a while in Bangkok.

He still doesn't have a job, the travel has not clarified his purpose, and too many things remind him of home.

The article isn't about Bangkok. It's too superficial. The article is about the author's confusion.

Edited May 19, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[Thaidream]

Thailand always bends with the wind. It takes those things from the West that it can use to make money and discards the rest. Bangkok is a huge city with so many areas in which expats and tourists do not venture. The Sukhumvit corridor is 'Western' oriented in that it is loaded with fast food chains and Western style hotels and the prices to match. The majority of Thais never go to these places except to work and do not eat in Western style restaurants or go to the bars or pubs in that area. They can't afford it nor do they want to eat western style food. The rest of the city where tourists mostly do not venture is much more interesting and where the majority of Thais actually live. If you have time- go down many of the inner Sois that connect in a myriad of ways and you find a whole different lifestyle with delicious Thai food and friendly people. I have literally driven around Bangkok for 12 hours at a time and never left the city limits. The majority of the city is vibrant; fascinating and not Western at all. A better written piece might be about the undiscovered areas of Bangkok. We already know where the tourists hang out.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Thaidream

[DrTuner]

People continue conflating modernization and westernization.

Bangkok is getting more modern, but despite that, it is VERY different than western cities. The 'old thai ways' aren't replaced by 'western ways', they are being replaced by 'new thai ways'.

Well said. It's these New Thai Ways I find most disagreeable. Like something from the 80's back west. Simply looking at the hairdos of that evil period should tell any one it's not the correct direction to go. Never mind the mall rats, fast food craze, etcetc. Edited May 19, 2016 by DrTuner

[WhizBang]

accounting for a whopping 20 percent of the national GDP.

I think it's more about 10%. For Thailand to achieve the same GDP growth rate of the other ASEAN countries tourism will need to be about 50% GDP if exports don't keep contracting.

Like many Western and Asian-Pacific (ie., Japan, South Korea, China) nations Thailand adopted capitalism to drive its economy. But it has been resistant to allow its culture and tradition to become diluted by Western practices.

You mean like shoot the messenger, deny everything, never lose face Thainess? I think Thailand could well do with allowing that side of it's culture and tradition to be diluted, if not completely eradicated.

[HOAX]

BANGKOK is the EMBODYMENT and MOTHER LODE of FAILURE and BOREDOM of a capital anno 2016, and especially among 99,9% of people who are NOT tourists or do NOT work in the tourist industry.

Extremely few ends up with anything after having left their homes elsewhere to find work, persue a career or start a company in bkk.

A third of their day goes to transportation and a third of their income goes to transportion. For the rest of the day they're left with work, standing in lines, expensive bills and sleeping. Barely any time and money is left.

Bangkok is the heart of all sectors of Thailand and should be highly developed and well organized and structured. It should have been the hub for shopping, hi-so nightlife, higher education, science, technology, politics, living a wealthier lifestyle and for innovaters and those persuing a career as an entertainer.

You're probably thinking, but isn't that how Bangkok already is. Yes, Thaiwise, but in reality it's extremely far from western standards, what we would call a developed city. Bangkok is a cluster of everything done and gone wrong.

Bangkok is as unorganized, unstructured, unsystematic, planless and chaotic as anything can get.

The problem with Bangkok isn't that it is too "western". It's the exact opposite, it's too "eastern", or better said: Bangkok is too undeveloped.

Edited May 19, 2016 by HOAX

[sitti]

I always wonder how come some delusional farang actually think that they are the center of universe, stating Bangkok is trying to become such and such.... You see increasing number Japanese, Chinese and Western businesses because Thailand is becoming more and more attractive for foreign investments, and is modernizing itself naturally as its economy rapidly grows.

"Thailand was named among the best countries in the world in a recent study by US News and World Report.

Thailand came in at 21^st in the Best Country Overall and is listed in the top 10 of all five individual categories which include: 10^th place in the Open for Business section, 8^th place for Heritage, 6^th place for Best Countries to Invest in, and 4^th place for both Adventure and Movers (this category focuses on rising economies)."

[WhizBang]

<snip> A better written piece might be about the undiscovered areas of Bangkok. We already know where the tourists hang out.

Spot on.

[Caveat Emptor]

Sounds like the type of person who for selfish reasons never wants things to change no matter how much it may benefit the locals.

I'm not saying if Bkk, and other places, are benefiting but there must be some and it far outweighs an individuals' personal desire to have things as he / she wants.

I think most of us who have been here for a while have come across tourists who visit once a year or longer and bemoan the fact that time hasn't stood still so that everything is just as it was on their last visit.

It is selfishness pure and simple.

[DM07]

Same BS you hear from people so many many times!

"I was here in 19XX! XYZ (insert Thailand holiday destination of your choice!) was soooo much nicer back then! No so many tourists..."!

Yeah, @$$4ol3...that was before you and your backpacker- buddies went there, took pictures, posted them on whatever-was the-socialnetwork-of the day and came back next year with 10 more of your ilk!

It is called progress (not judging if it's good or bad)!

When I was a kid, you could cross the street in front of my parents' house eyes closed!

Try that today and you are dead!

Or as we say in Germany: back then, we had a Kaiser!

Things change!

Live with it!

[Lupatria]

Bit of a broad and vague piece with little point. He might be able to write a more interesting and informed piece after spending 4 years in the city rather than 4 months.

Not if he gets a four year employment with the TAT he is obviously eyeing.

[kimamey]

Sounds like the type of person who for selfish reasons never wants things to change no matter how much it may benefit the locals.

I'm not saying if Bkk, and other places, are benefiting but there must be some and it far outweighs an individuals' personal desire to have things as he / she wants.

I think he's just posing the question.

I live in Mahasarakham and only visit or pass through Bangkok but most places are getting westernised to some extent and even Western countries aren't immune. We can sit here posting these views only because of, firstly the internet which spread out from the USA and secondly the web which did the same from Europe. Without that neither would be much use. The USA provides a lot of Western influence but it doesn't come from the natives but largely from immigrants to that country. Most western countries now have restaurants serving food from around the world, including Thailand so it works both ways.

I think this can be good or bad depending how it's used. Some things are mostly good. Bringing Western medicine for instance can save lives. I have a Chinese friend who said that her country had rightly taken on board western capitalist views but without much in the way of morals. I know this could apply to any country but her view was that it was much worse in China.

There does seem to be a lack of responsibility in Thailand with western technology at least. Thais have taken quickly to motorbikes and cars which are obviously quite fun but are less interested in the boring bits like proper driving tests, helmets and seatbelts.

I assume Thais must like Starbucks, Tesco, malls, smartphones and the internet ect as they probably couldn't survive just on expats. It would be difficult, if not impossible to even get here without western technology so it's just down to how western we want to be and there will always be differing opinions on that.

[kimamey]

I am guessing we all agree this article is BS!

No but I think a lot of people are reading too much into it and treating it as a statement rather than a question.

Check out the heading, it ends with ?

[Thaidream]

Thailand needs to develop in a 'Thai way' and take those things that are from the West that work for Thailand and discard those things that do not work. The United States changed tremendously from the 60s until now but that change has not necessarily improved the lives of Americans. Statistics show that the lives of the wealthy have improved tremendously over that period of time at the cost of the poor and middle class. Thailand does not need to import this type of financial model to its country at all. There is already enough inequity due to class without another addition that makes the wealthy grow stronger and the poor weaker.

While Thailand imports western medical knowledge and drugs- it does not have to import the outrageous costs and leave its most vulnerable people without medical care. To its credit- the 30 Baht medical scheme has undoubtedly saved lives in Thailand while Americans die from lack of affordable medical care or go bankrupt in an attempt to stay alive. We, as expats, become irritated at not being able to own land outright or other things unique to Thailand but from a Thai perspective they are protecting their country and people. Thailand has allowed Western fast food to multiply at an incredible rate which is fine from a business sense but this type of food is unhealthy and causes weight gain. They certainly have a right and a responsibility to say enough.

My point is that not everything the West has to offer is beneficial to the evolution of Thailand and frankly some of the Western business philosophy that has created so much inequity in the West should never become part of the Thai business model. The Western concepts of management do not work well in Thailand but the Japanese style of hard work and quality do work well. Bangkok and Thailand have changed tremendously in the last 40 years coming from a fourth World country and evolving into a near newly industrialized country. The powers that be or will be have the rare opportunity to move the country forward in a way that sustains and provides a quality of life that works well in Thailand as well as provide dignity to its citizens. If I was Thailand I wouldn't be copying a Western model which is fraught with many examples of a failed society; I would develop based upon my own Thai model.

[Bender]

how i can become a journalist? i can also write crap article ...

[berybert]

There are so many parts of Thailand that are not 'real Thailand' that there really isn't much of Thailand left.

Tho you might find a farm in the middle of nowhere with a few pissed up farmers laying on the floor if you really want the 'Thai experience'.

[Dagnabbit]

Thailand always bends with the wind. It takes those things from the West that it can use to make money and discards the rest. Bangkok is a huge city with so many areas in which expats and tourists do not venture. The Sukhumvit corridor is 'Western' oriented in that it is loaded with fast food chains and Western style hotels and the prices to match. The majority of Thais never go to these places except to work and do not eat in Western style restaurants or go to the bars or pubs in that area. They can't afford it nor do they want to eat western style food. The rest of the city where tourists mostly do not venture is much more interesting and where the majority of Thais actually live. If you have time- go down many of the inner Sois that connect in a myriad of ways and you find a whole different lifestyle with delicious Thai food and friendly people. I have literally driven around Bangkok for 12 hours at a time and never left the city limits. The majority of the city is vibrant; fascinating and not Western at all. A better written piece might be about the undiscovered areas of Bangkok. We already know where the tourists hang out.

Agreed.

Geographically speaking, Bangkok is less than 1% westernised.

[Dagnabbit]

There are so many parts of Thailand that are not 'real Thailand' that there really isn't much of Thailand left.

Tho you might find a farm in the middle of nowhere with a few pissed up farmers laying on the floor if you really want the 'Thai experience'.

Thailand is the sum of its parts.

It is all real Thailand.

[Bantex]

4 months in Bangkok and he's already an expert in Thai culture and history. What did he expect from a Capitol city . The capitols all over the world have changed the most significantly in every country.

[phoenixdoglover]

More like globalized commerce.

When we visit my wife's niece in Bangkok, our experience includes:

Korean car

Japanese restaurants

Mobs of filtering scooters

Three language conversations

A deluge of Chinese products

Sandals left outside the door

Street food

Real Thai massage

Temple visits

Papaya salad with sticky rice

Accupuncture session

Public buses with no Aircon

The wai

None of this seems remotely western to me.

Edited May 19, 2016 by phoenixdoglover

[cpofc]

too Western? Depends which way you look at it. Does this ring a bell?

The Sherriff and the Bad Guy in the Red Black Hat.

[gandalf12]

Is this guy kidding or is he on a controlled substance? Sure in the West we have scams and cons but nothing like on the scale of Thailand. I would suggest he gts away from his bar stool and actually goes into the real Thailand. Other than that this is a load of rubbish

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

I have no idea who runs What's On Sukhumvit but I have to say they they seem to care little what is posted in this rag. If Jamie Harkis is some sort of journalist it doesn't show, and as for the opinion of someone who has spent less than six months in Thailand I wonder how he has the audacity to proclaim anything about the place.

I expect the reaction on TV will reflect my comments, as most on here have been in Thailand for many, many years.

Blog Off Jamie.

[rodknock]

thailand is a 20th. century country that wants to be a 21st. century country, but never will.

not the way this country is run!! make a law or rule, change it the next day when they see how bad it is.

#1 education system!! what a joke!!!

high speed train does not improve a dilapidated train system.

a police department that is a complete joke!!! all they are interested is in how much money they can get.

2 tier justice system

build a bts line that connects to nothing, really smart!!

money wasted on construction and then the project scraped, bts line, road ways and buildings.

the good part is it is affordable to live here.

[elie8282]

I am married to a Thai woman. I started traveling to BKK in the early 80's. BKK did not used to be this way at that point in time, there were cows roaming around the international airport then. In order for Thailand to become a tourist attraction, they had no option but to keep up with the western world. Actually, I find many hotels in BKK to be more luxurious than 5-star hotels in the USA. Having said that, not all BKK is like Sukkhumvit Road. If you drive 20 kms outside the main city, you will find less western environment. And of course, if you go out in the country side, you will experience the beauty and old traditions of the Thai culture. It all depends on what you want from life. Thailand can offer all kinds of options, either live the western way at a relevant cheaper price, or live the Thai way which we, as westerners, are not capable to do, or have a mixed combination. That's the beauty of this country.