Strict checks on work permits after American might have submitted fake papers

[argus]

cannot understand why such a discussion ? around the world if someone fakes documents then he has to deal with authorities and people get the well deserved penalty. What is the difference in this case? Why have some people stomach ache?

if you hear the new government direction then over the next few month the enforcement of the existing (!) law becomes the rule not the exception. What is wrong with that?

[racefan]

So who said anything about them being reputable?

It seems to be that they did in fact submit false documents but the question is if they know this or not. From at least one report it was a false visa stamp so it sounds as if the applicant may have provided a passport with a false stamp (which would make it interesting for find the source) - but it could also mean someone switched passport photos so we really don't have any information to base a judgment on in my non lawyer mind.

My very point.

I am not suggesting that the firm he used was beyond corruption, but many posters seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the law firm were at fault and the American completely innocent.

[sting01]

So who said anything about them being reputable?

It seems to be that they did in fact submit false documents but the question is if they know this or not. From at least one report it was a false visa stamp so it sounds as if the applicant may have provided a passport with a false stamp (which would make it interesting for find the source) - but it could also mean someone switched passport photos so we really don't have any information to base a judgment on in my non lawyer mind.

My very point.

I am not suggesting that the firm he used was beyond corruption, but many posters seem to have jumped to the conclusion that the law firm were at fault and the American completely innocent.

PAsseport usually are personal, if there is a visa problem, fake visa, so it's more the guy than the lawfirm that is guilty.

Here the case is one of the worst case for our community (expat), because there is no objective ground for using fake documents and fake visas, but simply the fact to go hiding. It's far way beyong the usual topic of the abuse of the spirit of the law of the VOA (so called visa runners) who can be defended. Here, I am affraid I can only applaud to the arrest, and maybe ask : why it took you so long?

[teepruksa]

When annual renewal time comes around for the visa extension & work permit renewal, I always accompany our company officials on at least one visit to each.

I feel that this places both the company officials & civil servants under less pressure. They are free to ask me any question they want, plus they can visually match my face with my passport. In this way, I've found that these renewal matters seem to run far more smoothly.

On my first visit to One Stop I was asked if I was able to produce the original of my Degree. When I took it in on the next visit, the official just smiled & said 'no need'.

Edited November 9, 2006 by teepruksa

[Steph1012]

Well here we go again the Oh so honest concerned Thai Goverment srvants and all those lovely indignant Farangs jumping up and down defending assorted actions and defending and attacking on diverse fronts.

HEY SPARE A THOUGHT PLEASE FOR THE ABUSED BURMESE,LAO AND OTHER IMMIGRANT WORKERS HERE AND THE POOR UNEDUCATED PEASANTS WHO ARE ABUSED BY IN THE CASE OF THE UNEDUCATED THAIS THER OWN PEOPLE AND IN THE CASE OF THE IMMIGRANT WORKERS THEY ARE HUSTLED BY THE CORRUPT POLICE AND THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS ANYONE OF US WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ?

No we are all ensconced safely in our privilieged lifestyles why should we have a conscience?

The guy took a short cut it failed, the company ,well perhapd they were less than honest as perhaps was the guy who was caught.

My sympathy is for the ethic groups here who are reviled and abused by the so called master race of Thais.

Why then are you posturing on this site?

People like you and related NGO's try to impose stupid conditions on any debate these days with your ridiculous 1st year College Student Union Politically Correct outbursts.

Lovely as I sure you all are, when the big shock of the real world hits you personally and all its unfairness, you will have to deal with your own affairs and like many others, lose sight of the plight of others.

viewhigh.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_viewhigh_archive.html - 96k - Supplemental Result -

Go on here and impress other like minded lefties and leave us in peace.

Go to Burma and posture there. Its not Thailands role in the world to deal with these refugees, life is hard enough here thank you.

[samran]

Well here we go again the Oh so honest concerned Thai Goverment srvants and all those lovely indignant Farangs jumping up and down defending assorted actions and defending and attacking on diverse fronts.

HEY SPARE A THOUGHT PLEASE FOR THE ABUSED BURMESE,LAO AND OTHER IMMIGRANT WORKERS HERE AND THE POOR UNEDUCATED PEASANTS WHO ARE ABUSED BY IN THE CASE OF THE UNEDUCATED THAIS THER OWN PEOPLE AND IN THE CASE OF THE IMMIGRANT WORKERS THEY ARE HUSTLED BY THE CORRUPT POLICE AND THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS ANYONE OF US WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ?

No we are all ensconced safely in our privilieged lifestyles why should we have a conscience?

The guy took a short cut it failed, the company ,well perhapd they were less than honest as perhaps was the guy who was caught.

My sympathy is for the ethic groups here who are reviled and abused by the so called master race of Thais.

oh yes, and santa and the tooth fairy really don't exist either...

[siampolee]

Well here we go again the Oh so honest concerned Thai Goverment srvants and all those lovely indignant Farangs jumping up and down defending assorted actions and defending and attacking on diverse fronts.

HEY SPARE A THOUGHT PLEASE FOR THE ABUSED BURMESE,LAO AND OTHER IMMIGRANT WORKERS HERE AND THE POOR UNEDUCATED PEASANTS WHO ARE ABUSED BY IN THE CASE OF THE UNEDUCATED THAIS THER OWN PEOPLE AND IN THE CASE OF THE IMMIGRANT WORKERS THEY ARE HUSTLED BY THE CORRUPT POLICE AND THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS ANYONE OF US WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ?

No we are all ensconced safely in our privilieged lifestyles why should we have a conscience?

The guy took a short cut it failed, the company ,well perhapd they were less than honest as perhaps was the guy who was caught.

My sympathy is for the ethic groups here who are reviled and abused by the so called master race of Thais.

Why then are you posturing on this site?

People like you and related NGO's try to impose stupid conditions on any debate these days with your ridiculous 1st year College Student Union Politically Correct outbursts.

Lovely as I sure you all are, when the big shock of the real world hits you personally and all its unfairness, you will have to deal with your own affairs and like many others, lose sight of the plight of others.

viewhigh.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_viewhigh_archive.html - 96k - Supplemental Result -

Go on here and impress other like minded lefties and leave us in peace.

Go to Burma and posture there. Its not Thailands role in the world to deal with these refugees, life is hard enough here thank you.

Steph 1012.

I am a mature man with a Masters of Education who works here and have done so for the last 15 years I am very CONSERVATIVE and I like to consider others, unlike you sir.

Life hard here for you!!, for me it is not ,married with children and a house, a decent job with a Thai salary level too not an expat salary and a Starbucks Macdonalds or Subway junky I don't have problems. I do live near the new airport please if the country is so hard for you to live in be my guest .

Come and stay overnight prior to your outward bound flight to your homeland which seems to be paradise for you.Please return to your cocooned paradise where your are shielded from brutality and discrimination why did you leave there in the first place ?

I am no lover of mamby pamby policies however I am sad when my fellow human beings are treated as 3rd class by some third rate uneducated oik whether Asin or Farang.I presume you dine on lemon juice and vinegar prior to addressing the world and your fellow human beings. Indeed I am glad I do not work alongside you.

Are we not refufgees in a sense here in Thailand, can you go back home, are you able to live the good life in your homeland or aree you yet another wannabee here ? One day you may need someone to speak for you would you wish to be alane in your hour osf need ?

[dvk1951]

Same Same in Chonburi, company does all the paper work, I just show my pretty and sign the ubiquitous book at the end.

In Bangkok you have to show up yourself for the visa extension. Your lawyer or visa dealer can do all the paperwork, but at the end you have to be there. Not even need to open your mouth, just sit there so they can see you. This is so since at least 2 or 3 years.

[kudroz]

I am no lover of mamby pamby policies however I am sad when my fellow human beings are treated as 3rd class by some third rate uneducated oik whether Asin or Farang.I presume you dine on lemon juice and vinegar prior to addressing the world and your fellow human beings. Indeed I am glad I do not work alongside you.

Hi Jesus, nice to meet you.

[ChiangMaiChas]

I think Sunbelt here in Thailand for one have earned the right to be classed in this group and have also given lot,s of free advice out to T.Visa members.

Another is Scouses company ( U.K. based i think ? ) who i reckon has earned our support and Scouse as we know is one of several on the Thai visa section who all deserve Kudos Mak Mak for their continual assistance.

You don't work for them do you?

What was the name of the lawyers who faked the doc.?

I wouldn't trust ANY legal firm here, apart from maybe the International firms.

No firm give free advice - do it yourself. Scouse does give excellent advice. Can't say what I think of any other company, well on this website anyway.

[Bottlerocket]

Well here we go again the Oh so honest concerned Thai Goverment srvants and all those lovely indignant Farangs jumping up and down defending assorted actions and defending and attacking on diverse fronts.

HEY SPARE A THOUGHT PLEASE FOR THE ABUSED BURMESE,LAO AND OTHER IMMIGRANT WORKERS HERE AND THE POOR UNEDUCATED PEASANTS WHO ARE ABUSED BY IN THE CASE OF THE UNEDUCATED THAIS THER OWN PEOPLE AND IN THE CASE OF THE IMMIGRANT WORKERS THEY ARE HUSTLED BY THE CORRUPT POLICE AND THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS ANYONE OF US WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ?

No we are all ensconced safely in our privilieged lifestyles why should we have a conscience?

The guy took a short cut it failed, the company ,well perhapd they were less than honest as perhaps was the guy who was caught.

My sympathy is for the ethic groups here who are reviled and abused by the so called master race of Thais.

Well, I'm glad you're there for them. Personally, I'll leave it to you to speak up for them and whatever human rights groups that are out there doing the right thing. They can't lose with people like you looking out for them. I really do hope you, and they, succeed in changing the hearts and minds of the "so called master race of Thais." That's a really good cause. Maybe you can influence the countries of immigrant workers to pay their people enough money so that they don't have to illegally cross borders and deal with corruption and abuse. Good luck!

[george]

Update:

American caught with fake ‘visa’

PHUKET CITY: -- Following an American man being caught with a fake permit-to-stay stamp in his work permit application, the Phuket Provincial Employment Office (PPEO) has warned all foreign workers – and the companies that employ them – to remember that forgery of Immigration stamps and documents is a serious crime.

At the “Governor Meets the Press” meeting at Phuket Provincial Hall earlier this week, PPEO Chief Boonchoke Maneechote announced that people found guilty of producing Immigration stamp forgeries will be prosecuted, with offenders facing from six months to five years in prison, a fine of 1,000 to 10,000 baht or both.

The warning followed the September 19 discovery of a forged permit-to stay stamp in a work permit application of American Jeremy Loud. The application was submitted to the PPEO by Phuket Visa & Accounting service.

Boonchoke said that Loud, 33, requested a permit to work for DPic Imaging Ltd Partnership.

The American had granted a power-of-attorney to the manager of Phuket Visa & Accounting to apply for the work permit on his behalf.

When the applicant went to pick up the work permit, however, a PPEO officer noted that copies of the applicant’s permit-to-stay stamp failed to match the stamps in Loud’s passport.

The office therefore refused to issue the work permit, contacted Phuket Visa & Accounting to inform them of the apparent fraud, and reported the matter to police.

Nattasorn “Somjet” Eadkanan, Managing Director Phuket Visa & Accounting, confirmed that he had already been questioned by police over the matter.

He had hired a “freelance” agent named “Nong Man” to handle the work permit application on the company’s behalf.

“We hired him because we were busy and he had a perfect record with other jobs we gave him in the past. So when he prepared the documents for me, I signed them all without checking every page and submitted them myself to the Employment Office,” he said.

Neither himself nor the American had any way of knowing that the application contained copies of fake permit-to-stay stamp, he said.

Efforts to contact Nong Man at his Phuket Villa California home or by telephone have thus far proved successful, he said.

Somjet confirmed that Nong Man was a civilian and not a Thai government officer.

“I think he knows he has been found out,” said Somjet.

In 2004 a Phuket-based visa and accounting company came under the microscope for being involved in obtaining fake permit-to-stay stamps marked as issued at Sadao Immigration Office.

An internal investigation by Immigration into the fake stamps was inconclusive.

--Phuket Gazette 2006-11-09

[A_Traveller]

Do the words deniability & plausible pass through any other readers mind......

Regards

/edit spelling//

Edited November 9, 2006 by A_Traveller

[sriracha john]

sooo... it WAS the company and not the applicant who did the fudging... interesting how things turnaround on some follow-up reports.

Edited November 9, 2006 by sriracha john

[robsamui]

I know of three teachers here in Pattaya who have work permits but their degree's came from a certain Soi in Bangkok. In all cases they have got away with it for five years -- It makes me angry because I worked hard and scrapped round for money to get my degree. I think the sooner these cheats find out what the inside of a Thai prison is like the better and the law firms that are assisting them should join them.

Interesting. I had always assumed that one had to be moderately literate to gain a degree - although I suppose there are degrees in all things, including degrees.

Plural nouns do not have apostrophes (DEGREE'S).

The word is "scraped" not SCRAPPED (unless you gained your money by pugilistic means) and, certainly, a refresher course in the use of punctuation would not go amiss ... the occasional comma, perhaps, plus the knowledge of how to use an en-dash and the spacing that goes with it?

Or is the ability to spell and a knowledge of puntuation not important if you're merely a teacher?

Rob

Edited November 9, 2006 by robsamui

[robsamui]

Rob -- I was always taught never to mock the aflicted -- I am dyslexic and it took me nine years to get a degree BUT i did it.

Whereas you have my sympathies - I have worked with many dyslexic students - this has to be the most attrocious qualification for being a teacher that I have come across.

"I have great difficulty with my ability to read and write, I can't spell or punctuate, but I can work hard, so let me teach you English"?

I had a student once who was almost totally blind and whose ambition was to be a photographer. She really worked hard at it too.

Rob

Edited November 9, 2006 by robsamui

[Nemo.]

Well Thai agents seem to have a habit of saying "don't worry just sign the blank papers and the power of attorney...." my last one did. Fake school the result! And a 13 month work permit and 3 month non-B visa extension

Glad I am at a legit school via UK agent NOT a Thai agency anymore! waited 4 months for WP but at least it will be kosher!

[marshbags]

I think Sunbelt here in Thailand for one have earned the right to be classed in this group and have also given lot,s of free advice out to T.Visa members.

Another is Scouses company ( U.K. based i think ? ) who i reckon has earned our support and Scouse as we know is one of several on the Thai visa section who all deserve Kudos Mak Mak for their continual assistance.

You don't work for them do you? quote

No, i,m just one of thousands of members who benefit from the FREE advice and information on legal matters. MY REPLY

What was the name of the lawyers who faked the doc.? quote

Phuket Visa & Accounting ( please read Georges update ( post 44 ) MY REPLY

I wouldn't trust ANY legal firm here, apart from maybe the International firms. quote

Sunbelt Asia are the sponsors of the following section:-

Thai visas, residency and work permits

Visa, visa runs, visa extensions, work permit, immigration, residency in Thailand.

Sponsored by: SUNBELT ASIA MY REPLY

There integrity is well known on T.Visa and if you want to know more about them just click on to the Logo.

No firm give free advice - do it yourself. Scouse does give excellent advice. Can't say what I think of any other company, well on this website anyway.

Sunbelt Asia give advice freely on a regular basis to all T.Visa members and you can see for yourself if you need re assuring, in the visa section for one. MY REPLY

As one of the many members who benefits from this i am just showing my appreciation by this post and i can assure you again i am NOT connected in any way to the Co. by the way.

At the same time i am supporting T.Visa via this action and one of it,s sponsors

They deserve our support by return in my humble opinion and why not show it on T.Visa and use them when you need good reliable advice.

I note you are possibly in the C.Mai area " ChiangMaiChas " if your T.Visa I.D is anything to go by

Why not post in their forum and ask about a good local legal expert if you need one., i,m sure they will advise you regarding this, indeed anything relevant to the area, should you need to know.

Get to know them if you do live there by way of a new member introduction

marshbags

Edited November 9, 2006 by marshbags

[FREDPAT]

Well here we go again the Oh so honest concerned Thai Goverment srvants and all those lovely indignant Farangs jumping up and down defending assorted actions and defending and attacking on diverse fronts.

HEY SPARE A THOUGHT PLEASE FOR THE ABUSED BURMESE,LAO AND OTHER IMMIGRANT WORKERS HERE AND THE POOR UNEDUCATED PEASANTS WHO ARE ABUSED BY IN THE CASE OF THE UNEDUCATED THAIS THER OWN PEOPLE AND IN THE CASE OF THE IMMIGRANT WORKERS THEY ARE HUSTLED BY THE CORRUPT POLICE AND THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS ANYONE OF US WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE ?

No we are all ensconced safely in our privilieged lifestyles why should we have a conscience?

The guy took a short cut it failed, the company ,well perhapd they were less than honest as perhaps was the guy who was caught.

My sympathy is for the ethic groups here who are reviled and abused by the so called master race of Thais.

Why then are you posturing on this site?

People like you and related NGO's try to impose stupid conditions on any debate these days with your ridiculous 1st year College Student Union Politically Correct outbursts.

Lovely as I sure you all are, when the big shock of the real world hits you personally and all its unfairness, you will have to deal with your own affairs and like many others, lose sight of the plight of others.

viewhigh.blogspot.com/2005_08_01_viewhigh_archive.html - 96k - Supplemental Result -

Go on here and impress other like minded lefties and leave us in peace.

Go to Burma and posture there. Its not Thailands role in the world to deal with these refugees, life is hard enough here thank you.

Steph 1012.

I am a mature man with a Masters of Education who works here and have done so for the last 15 years I am very CONSERVATIVE and I like to consider others, unlike you sir.

Life hard here for you!!, for me it is not ,married with children and a house, a decent job with a Thai salary level too not an expat salary and a Starbucks Macdonalds or Subway junky I don't have problems. I do live near the new airport please if the country is so hard for you to live in be my guest .

Come and stay overnight prior to your outward bound flight to your homeland which seems to be paradise for you.Please return to your cocooned paradise where your are shielded from brutality and discrimination why did you leave there in the first place ?

I am no lover of mamby pamby policies however I am sad when my fellow human beings are treated as 3rd class by some third rate uneducated oik whether Asin or Farang.I presume you dine on lemon juice and vinegar prior to addressing the world and your fellow human beings. Indeed I am glad I do not work alongside you.

Are we not refufgees in a sense here in Thailand, can you go back home, are you able to live the good life in your homeland or aree you yet another wannabee here ? One day you may need someone to speak for you would you wish to be alane in your hour osf need ?

I can't stand it when "apologists" can only fall back on their typical "well if you don't like it, leave!" rant when anyone dares to criticise something/anything about the country in which they live. It is precisely because we love living somewhere, be it Thailand, Japan, or wherever, that we wish to see changes, not only for our sakes but also -- and more importantly -- for the benefit of the locals, who more often than not are getting screwed over by their respective governments but WITHOUT the luxury of being able to leave.

When you say masters of education, I assume you mean a "Masters of the Universe" education, as your post was filled with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and almost a complete lack of punctuation. Maybe YOU should go back and take a refresher course in English 101. I hear you get a free decoder ring upon successful completion!

[cusacktog]

BIG DEAL,

as most established expats would know- schools (including intenational/ bilingual and govt.) in bkk. and all over Thai. are littered with people with fake transcripts and diploma/ degree copies. It's been going on for years and will not stop. Do they honestly expect farangs with 'real' credentials to work for 25-50000 a month in this country? Get real. I can work as a truck driver in any developed country for a week and earn more than that.

The business of faking paperwork is not limited to schools either- it includes people applying for loans (thais and foreigners) here in this country- the banking and finance sector- all sorts of depts. are involved in these types of 'scandals'- have people forgotten that we are living in asia? The wheel is greasy- just accept it and don't think for a moment that there will be any serious crack down on visas or transcript issues. It just won't happen- not to the extent that it will affect any foreigner with half a brain who has been here more than two years. Work around it guys. It's not that hard- but obviously most of you know this....

apologise for the ramble in advance

cusackotg

Bangkapi, Bangers.

[Foggy Bottom]

A degree is required to make a work permit legal.

The other thing that of course has got people worried is that even if you are doing everything right the legal way when the time comes for Farang business owners to renew their B visa you must have one million baht in the bank (this is on top of the equity of a 2 million baht company).

Rubbish !!!!

[makavelithedon]

Getting back to the main point of the thread (a fake passport stamp) and little else, this company by all acounts have a pretty shady reputation to say the least and it's not the first time there has been problems. Previously it was reported that a mass visa fraud was being committed on a mass scale pertaining to passport matters for 18 months or more!

However, as pointed out by others, I'd imagine the American gent will be the one who gets the full force of 3rd world punishment and the company a trivial fine at best.

I was also quite shocked reading many of the views expressed in regard punishments that fit 'the crimes'.

I think in the league of things then the majority here feel a forged stamp or document is second only to child murder?

I think deporting someone with a black stamp/mark and either a life ban from returning or say a 5 year or so duration is quite fitting and suitable but I appear in the minority!

Why don't we all discuss speeding or parking in a red and white marked area next, so it can come in at number 3? We can push rape, child prostitution, murder, beating people senseless and a host of others to their rightful places near the bottom eh?

Pathetic