Lawyers appeal against death sentences over murder of British tourists in Thailand

[gandalf12]

http://news.sky.com/story/1700640/appeal-launched-by-killers-of-uk-backpackers

[fab99]

"Technicalities" include...

- confession made under torture

- no lawyer present during "questioning"

- DNA- evidence more than questionable, because (among others) chain of custody was broken, DNA- samples are used up and can not be retested...

- several questionable practices during evidence collection (messing with the clothes, trampling of "outsiders, all over the crime- scene)

- "evidence" produced out of thin air

- several possibly/ probably involved persons just left of the hook

- several leads not followed

...

...

...

the list is -literally- endless!

Have no idea if any or all of the above occurred bur regardless of what you have stated it is the death sentence they are appealing, nothing more, nothing less.

Untrue, did you even bother to read the source of this OP ?

First paragraph :

"Lawyers filed an appeal on Monday against the conviction of two Myanmar migrant workers sentenced to death in Thailand for the 2014 murder of two British backpackers on a holiday island, another twist in a case mired in controversy and dispute."

Appeal against the conviction, not against the death sentence only...

The DNA that was the main reason for convicting the B2 is just non existent if it can't be properly retested and before somebody says the defense refused to retest it, again, it is untrue, they refused the conditions of the retesting, under the RTP supervision and with processed sample whose source couldn't be traced, could have been saliva, sperm, blood... DNA is irrefutable evidence only with perfect chain of custody, otherwise, it can be very easliy falsified, that is the whole point here...

[Chicog]

"Technicalities" include...

- confession made under torture

- no lawyer present during "questioning"

- DNA- evidence more than questionable, because (among others) chain of custody was broken, DNA- samples are used up and can not be retested...

- several questionable practices during evidence collection (messing with the clothes, trampling of "outsiders, all over the crime- scene)

- "evidence" produced out of thin air

- several possibly/ probably involved persons just left of the hook

- several leads not followed

...

...

...

the list is -literally- endless!

Have no idea if any or all of the above occurred bur regardless of what you have stated it is the death sentence they are appealing, nothing more, nothing less.

No, they are appealing the conviction and, by association, the sentence.

A team of Thai, Burmese, British and Australian lawyers, translators and advisers has compiled a 198-page argument against the conviction and sentencing, which was submitted to an appeals court Monday morning. It alleges that the two Burmese men were not initially given access to lawyers or decent translators, and that they were tortured and coerced with threats into giving confessions, which they later retracted.

The appeal focuses mainly on the DNA evidence relied upon for the conviction, some of which in court was only “referred to in the form of verbal hearsay evidence.” Strikingly, the lawyers say DNA taken from the murder weapon, a hoe, did not match DNA samples of the convicted men.

http://time.com/4344383/thailand-koh-tao-hannah-witheridge-david-miller/

Edited May 23, 2016 by Chicog

[sjaak327]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter ☺☺

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Well many people have genuine concerns that the two Burmese blokes didn't get a fair trial. The evidence presented has been put into doubt.

From the evidence that was presented, I fail to see how their guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

And therefore they should not be where they are now.

[greenchair]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter ☺☺

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Well many people have genuine concerns that the two Burmese blokes didn't get a fair trial. The evidence presented has been put into doubt.

From the evidence that was presented, I fail to see how their guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

And therefore they should not be where they are now.

What you should be saying is there are some evidences that in doubt.

I recognise that ,which is why I look at all evidences available to the public foremostly other evidences that are not in doubt. Those evidences the defense continue to refuse to address and would like swept under the carpet. That's why they lost, because they will not address certain evidence. The defense has tunnel vision. The judges did not.

[MorristheRunt]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

[greenchair]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

[rockingrobin]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

Greenchair I accept you think the B2 are guilty , but is there any explanation / reason forthcoming from yourself as to their guilt

[Bench499d]

"Technicalities" include...

- confession made under torture

- no lawyer present during "questioning"

- DNA- evidence more than questionable, because (among others) chain of custody was broken, DNA- samples are used up and can not be retested...

- several questionable practices during evidence collection (messing with the clothes, trampling of "outsiders, all over the crime- scene)

- "evidence" produced out of thin air

- several possibly/ probably involved persons just left of the hook

- several leads not followed

...

...

...

the list is -literally- endless!

Have no idea if any or all of the above occurred bur regardless of what you have stated it is the death sentence they are appealing, nothing more, nothing less.

Untrue, did you even bother to read the source of this OP ?

First paragraph :

"Lawyers filed an appeal on Monday against the conviction of two Myanmar migrant workers sentenced to death in Thailand for the 2014 murder of two British backpackers on a holiday island, another twist in a case mired in controversy and dispute."

Appeal against the conviction, not against the death sentence only...

The DNA that was the main reason for convicting the B2 is just non existent if it can't be properly retested and before somebody says the defense refused to retest it, again, it is untrue, they refused the conditions of the retesting, under the RTP supervision and with processed sample whose source couldn't be traced, could have been saliva, sperm, blood... DNA is irrefutable evidence only with perfect chain of custody, otherwise, it can be very easliy falsified, that is the whole point here...

I haven't commented on this case and I didn't follow it as closely as others but does the DNA even prove rape let along murder?

[MorristheRunt]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

In a civilised country the case would not have made court.

But with the limited press freedom during the trial and the speculation/facts that did come out, I went from believing

the two guys were 100% innocent, to thinking they were at least involved in what transpired.

I have to say it's incredible that all witnesses have been silenced if the local mafia were involved, even silencing the victims relatives etc...don't get that one.

I think this case stinks, but I am not convinced the Burmese were not involved in someway.

From what I read, the DNA evidence was a joke, so why did the defence on go on the all out attack on that matter alone. They were either incompetent or did not want to go in deep for a reason.

Edited May 23, 2016 by MorristheRunt

[Khun Han]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

They didn't have one iota of evidence against the B2: only the police's say so and the judges' belief in the police.

[Baerboxer]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

It's no more disgraceful than the second post which proclaims them to be as innocent as the day is long.

Neither view is really disgraceful as they believe what they right. Whereas neither can possibly know for sure.

The reality is we will never know what really happened on that night. Were the 2 convicted not involved in anyway; were they involved by not the main players; where they guilty as charged and convicted.

All we'll ever know is the inept investigation, the pantomime of holding a press conference with the most senior police officers to state the innocence of someone tried and convicted by social media and the trial and verdict itself.

Things just get filibustered, muddled and decisions made and rarely changed.

This is appalling in context but sadly not the only case in recent times.

[greenchair]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

Greenchair I accept you think the B2 are guilty , but is there any explanation / reason forthcoming from yourself as to their guilt

Robin we have all been down a long road together. Yes people, no people, not sure people. I do believe we all including aleg wanted them to be innocent.

I found reasonable explanations for them for many things.

They were on the beach.

They left their butts there.

The confession.

The dna .

The wine bottle.

The midnight swim.

In the rain.

The clothes left at the beach.

The shoes left at the beach.

The guitar left at the beach.

The phone being planted by rtp.

I defended all of it.

On the last day of court andies fb post popped up on my fb.

People were going nuts when they found out that in fact wp had davids phone.

But worse wp was not sleeping at 4am. He was down at the beach cleaning up.

It just got too much to continue justifying it any longer.

That moment hit me like a brick robyn.I shall never forget it.

Let's remember that poor girls last moments of life. ??

[Khon Kaen Dave]

As i said before,these kids are innocent,but they have to get a guilty,to save face over the total f##k up made by all involved.They will get a guilty and the DS will be reduced to life.After a few years have gone by, and they have been forgotten about,the Burmese government will do a deal with the Thais to release them.`This will be done under the strictest secrecy,with a warning of dont come back.it will not reach the media but word of mouth will spread it around that they escaped while on a work detail.

They will still be convicted felons and still be wanted in Thailand,but the escape will save face all round.

Either that or they will be found dead in their cells due to depression,that will be the reason.Either way,they will be forgotten.Its a win win situation.

[fab99]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

Greenchair I accept you think the B2 are guilty , but is there any explanation / reason forthcoming from yourself as to their guilt

Robin we have all been down a long road together. Yes people, no people, not sure people. I do believe we all including aleg wanted them to be innocent.

I found reasonable explanations for them for many things.

They were on the beach.

They left their butts there.

The confession.

The dna .

The wine bottle.

The midnight swim.

In the rain.

The clothes left at the beach.

The shoes left at the beach.

The guitar left at the beach.

The phone being planted by rtp.

I defended all of it.

On the last day of court andies fb post popped up on my fb.

People were going nuts when they found out that in fact wp had davids phone.

But worse wp was not sleeping at 4am. He was down at the beach cleaning up.

It just got too much to continue justifying it any longer.

That moment hit me like a brick robyn.I shall never forget it.

Let's remember that poor girls last moments of life. ??

Yes, let's remember for sure, but it is difficult to accept the uncertainty and the scenario described by the RTP saying the B2 saw the victims intimate and felt horny then decided to kill them being so drunk just doesn't add up.

Really, have you seen them, how could they kill the couple without even the element of surprise (because as was proven by DNA on the hoe both the victims DNA was found on the handle, they had the weapon in their hands) and how come David's blood has never been found on the hoe ? how can it be the only murder weapon then ?

Plus all the small wounds on his body just don't add up either, how was he killed, he fought for his life, did 2 small burmese guys really managed to fight this big guy, and what was Hannah doing then...

The scenario just isn't clear and with so many doubts, it is just not acceptable to see them convicted on just small evidences, I won't waste my time going through your list, we all know what it's worth...

[fab99]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

Greenchair I accept you think the B2 are guilty , but is there any explanation / reason forthcoming from yourself as to their guilt

Robin we have all been down a long road together. Yes people, no people, not sure people. I do believe we all including aleg wanted them to be innocent.

I found reasonable explanations for them for many things.

They were on the beach.

They left their butts there.

The confession.

The dna .

The wine bottle.

The midnight swim.

In the rain.

The clothes left at the beach.

The shoes left at the beach.

The guitar left at the beach.

The phone being planted by rtp.

I defended all of it.

On the last day of court andies fb post popped up on my fb.

People were going nuts when they found out that in fact wp had davids phone.

But worse wp was not sleeping at 4am. He was down at the beach cleaning up.

It just got too much to continue justifying it any longer.

That moment hit me like a brick robyn.I shall never forget it.

Let's remember that poor girls last moments of life. ??

And the fact they had the phone doesn't prove they raped and kill, does it?

It barrely proves they might have stolen it or simply found on the beach and maybe, just maybe they were involved, but I really dont believe either way they were alone, and it is just not just if some escape justice...

[greenchair]

Fab99 I agree, I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.

Edited May 23, 2016 by greenchair

[Khun Han]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

It's no more disgraceful than the second post which proclaims them to be as innocent as the day is long.

Neither view is really disgraceful as they believe what they right. Whereas neither can possibly know for sure.

The reality is we will never know what really happened on that night. Were the 2 convicted not involved in anyway; were they involved by not the main players; where they guilty as charged and convicted.

All we'll ever know is the inept investigation, the pantomime of holding a press conference with the most senior police officers to state the innocence of someone tried and convicted by social media and the trial and verdict itself.

Things just get filibustered, muddled and decisions made and rarely changed.

This is appalling in context but sadly not the only case in recent times.

The "second post" by myself is 100% accurate: There isn't a shred of hard evidence against the B2, just police say-so.

[Khun Han]

This trial has not shown Thailand up in a good light.

But I fear the appeal will simply fail. Why? The ex Chief of Police and the Leader of the Military Junta have both put thieir considerable reputations on the line. In Thailand the loss of face of two very senior elitest fugures will not be allowed to pass.

I do think the Burmese have a case to answer, and their defence lawyers did a simply appaling job in the original trial.

But this whole incident has been a tragedy.

I just don't understand what your stance is runt.

In 1 sentence you say the are scared of losing and that's why the b2 will not win.

In another you say the b2 have things to answer and the defense did an appalling job.

I personally think there was so much to answer, the defence ran out of answers. They had so much against those boys, the case became undefendable. They will be lucky indeed if the death sentence is overturned.

Greenchair I accept you think the B2 are guilty , but is there any explanation / reason forthcoming from yourself as to their guilt

Robin we have all been down a long road together. Yes people, no people, not sure people. I do believe we all including aleg wanted them to be innocent.

I found reasonable explanations for them for many things.

They were on the beach.

They left their butts there.

The confession.

The dna .

The wine bottle.

The midnight swim.

In the rain.

The clothes left at the beach.

The shoes left at the beach.

The guitar left at the beach.

The phone being planted by rtp.

I defended all of it.

On the last day of court andies fb post popped up on my fb.

People were going nuts when they found out that in fact wp had davids phone.

But worse wp was not sleeping at 4am. He was down at the beach cleaning up.

It just got too much to continue justifying it any longer.

That moment hit me like a brick robyn.I shall never forget it.

Let's remember that poor girls last moments of life. ??

More misinformation from greenchair that has been corrected heaven knows how many times already, but here we go again:

They were at the other end of the beach several hours before the crime, with a beach party that was never investigated going on much nearer the crime scene at the time of the crime scene.

The cigarette butts were at the other end of the beach, from when they were there earlier.

The confession was tortured out of them and later retracted when they received legal advice.

There is no "the wine bottle", just a wine bottle in photo. Did the police check the 7/11 till roll to see if the wine they bought was the same brand as the one in the photo? No.

The midnight swim that happened several hours before the crime.

The clothes lost at the beach hours before the crime.

The shoes lost at the beach hours before the crime.

The phone red herring saga that the police have lied about repeatedly.

And going for pathos over Hannah's tragic death, when your posts are helping to shield the real murderers!!! Ugh!!!! Utterly, utterly revolting!!!

[sjaak327]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter ☺☺

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Well many people have genuine concerns that the two Burmese blokes didn't get a fair trial. The evidence presented has been put into doubt.

From the evidence that was presented, I fail to see how their guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

And therefore they should not be where they are now.

What you should be saying is there are some evidences that in doubt.

I recognise that ,which is why I look at all evidences available to the public foremostly other evidences that are not in doubt. Those evidences the defense continue to refuse to address and would like swept under the carpet. That's why they lost, because they will not address certain evidence. The defense has tunnel vision. The judges did not.

Hmm, you must be privy to information the rest of us aren't. I am dying to hear what piece of evidence the prosecution brought to table which establishes quilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I have not see any such evidence.

Edited May 23, 2016 by sjaak327

[DiscoDan]

Greenchair I accept you think the B2 are guilty , but is there any explanation / reason forthcoming from yourself as to their guilt

Robin we have all been down a long road together. Yes people, no people, not sure people. I do believe we all including aleg wanted them to be innocent.

I found reasonable explanations for them for many things.

They were on the beach.

They left their butts there.

The confession.

The dna .

The wine bottle.

The midnight swim.

In the rain.

The clothes left at the beach.

The shoes left at the beach.

The guitar left at the beach.

The phone being planted by rtp.

I defended all of it.

On the last day of court andies fb post popped up on my fb.

People were going nuts when they found out that in fact wp had davids phone.

But worse wp was not sleeping at 4am. He was down at the beach cleaning up.

It just got too much to continue justifying it any longer.

That moment hit me like a brick robyn.I shall never forget it.

Let's remember that poor girls last moments of life. ??

Not forgetting never coming forward even though police stated witnesses saw people on a log playing guitar and said the song they were singing was not thai or english

Evaded the mass dna testing of 200 local Burmese workers (Sarah Yuen confirmed this)

They ran away and managed to evade capture when police turned up while they were playing a game of takraw with 7 others burmese, they other 7 did not run away.

Then eventually WP was caught trying to leave the island on a night ferry, even though Burmese workers were requested not to leave the Island.

The excuse give for this was his friend had managed to get him a job in construction, so only a couple of weeks ago he is sitting on a beach drinking beer & wine smoking cigs enjoying life he has got so much money he can even give his friend a 15,000 thb for free and he is going to give it all up to work on a construction site ?

I just can't believe people still can't see they are guilty,

[DiscoDan]

More misinformation from greenchair that has been corrected heaven knows how many times already, but here we go again:

They were at the other end of the beach several hours before the crime, with a beach party that was never investigated going on much nearer the crime scene at the time of the crime scene.

The cigarette butts were at the other end of the beach, from when they were there earlier.

The confession was tortured out of them and later retracted when they received legal advice.

There is no "the wine bottle", just a wine bottle in photo. Did the police check the 7/11 till roll to see if the wine they bought was the same brand as the one in the photo? No.

The midnight swim that happened several hours before the crime.

The clothes lost at the beach hours before the crime.

The shoes lost at the beach hours before the crime.

The phone red herring saga that the police have lied about repeatedly.

And going for pathos over Hannah's tragic death, when your posts are helping to shield the real murderers!!! Ugh!!!! Utterly, utterly revolting!!!

Khun H twisting the truth again and seem to be getting more desperate in the process

Yes there is a wine bottle Maung Maung went back home to get it as the B2 wanted to stay and drink more, then after he went to see his g/f (I can post the link if you want its on one of the so called justice pages )

cig butt they tested for DNA were next to the log 65 meters away (people can run 100m in under 10 seconds) so no not at the the other end of the beach. there were also other cig butts that were the same brand near the crime scene.

No prove that clothes were lost before crime or that they swam before crime thats just there story (no evidence to back this up)

Wai Phyo testified he found a phone on the beach (iphone4 thb15,000) his friend testified he smashed it up as he worried who's it was a phone that matched Davids.

We was told how these 2 were just poor migrants all they wanted to do is send money to their dear old Mums, But seem to be flush enough to destroy property worth 15,000thb

[Baerboxer]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

It's no more disgraceful than the second post which proclaims them to be as innocent as the day is long.

Neither view is really disgraceful as they believe what they right. Whereas neither can possibly know for sure.

The reality is we will never know what really happened on that night. Were the 2 convicted not involved in anyway; were they involved by not the main players; where they guilty as charged and convicted.

All we'll ever know is the inept investigation, the pantomime of holding a press conference with the most senior police officers to state the innocence of someone tried and convicted by social media and the trial and verdict itself.

Things just get filibustered, muddled and decisions made and rarely changed.

This is appalling in context but sadly not the only case in recent times.

The "second post" by myself is 100% accurate: There isn't a shred of hard evidence against the B2, just police say-so.

That's your opinion.

But, notwithstanding the performance and competence levels of the police and their inherent nature in such matters, the court believed otherwise; so did the British police forces who received reports and sent observers; so did the families of the victims.

We, unless you can say different, have not been privy to all the evidence against the two convicted of this crime.

We simply don't know all the facts and so with respect, you can't possible be 100% accurate.

[rockingrobin]

Fab99 I agree, I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.

Greenchair through my innoccent eyes I have difficulty believing you are genuine.

It seems that you are ready to forgo the cornerstone of justice and that is innocent untill proven guitly beyond reasonable doubt. It is a fact of life that nobody can know anything for certainty and the level of proof required varies depending upon the crime . In the case of an homicide the bar is raised to a considerable level.

It should also be remembered that it is not the burden of the accused to prove their innocence , but the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reaonable doubt.

I fail to see how you can agree with the conviction if you make the statement ' I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.'

Here you are casting doubt over the prosecution , it is the prosecution claim that both the defendants held the hoe ,

In an earlier post it is WP walking on the beach in your words 'cleaning up', it is the prosecution claim that both defendants are involved , are we to believe that WP was so concerned that he needed to fix things at the crime scene whilst ZL nonchantly returned to the accommadation and went to sleep

[Prbkk]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter [emoji5][emoji5]

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Disgraceful comments why do you continue to embarress yourself.

It's no more disgraceful than the second post which proclaims them to be as innocent as the day is long.

Neither view is really disgraceful as they believe what they right. Whereas neither can possibly know for sure.

The reality is we will never know what really happened on that night. Were the 2 convicted not involved in anyway; were they involved by not the main players; where they guilty as charged and convicted.

All we'll ever know is the inept investigation, the pantomime of holding a press conference with the most senior police officers to state the innocence of someone tried and convicted by social media and the trial and verdict itself.

Things just get filibustered, muddled and decisions made and rarely changed.

This is appalling in context but sadly not the only case in recent times.

The "second post" by myself is 100% accurate: There isn't a shred of hard evidence against the B2, just police say-so.

That's your opinion.

But, notwithstanding the performance and competence levels of the police and their inherent nature in such matters, the court believed otherwise; so did the British police forces who received reports and sent observers; so did the families of the victims.

We, unless you can say different, have not been privy to all the evidence against the two convicted of this crime.

We simply don't know all the facts and so with respect, you can't possible be 100% accurate.

But surely that is the heart of the matter: the foundation of any credible justice system is openness and transparency ( in addition to the concepts of procedural fairness). In this case there has been none of it: clouded in confusion, contradiction, shambolic investigation, naming of suspects and mysterious retractions/withdrawals, Clouseau-like buffoons stumbling around the case. Sure, no one could be absolutely certain of their innocence, IMO, but this case doesn't come close to passing the 'smell test', in fact it's rank.

[greenchair]

Fab99 I agree, I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.

Greenchair through my innoccent eyes I have difficulty believing you are genuine.

It seems that you are ready to forgo the cornerstone of justice and that is innocent untill proven guitly beyond reasonable doubt. It is a fact of life that nobody can know anything for certainty and the level of proof required varies depending upon the crime . In the case of an homicide the bar is raised to a considerable level.

It should also be remembered that it is not the burden of the accused to prove their innocence , but the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reaonable doubt.

I fail to see how you can agree with the conviction if you make the statement ' I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.'

Here you are casting doubt over the prosecution , it is the prosecution claim that both the defendants held the hoe ,

In an earlier post it is WP walking on the beach in your words 'cleaning up', it is the prosecution claim that both defendants are involved , are we to believe that WP was so concerned that he needed to fix things at the crime scene whilst ZL nonchantly returned to the accommadation and went to sleep

No, they did both go back to the room together. Then mm strangely left his girlfriend at 4am or there abouts and went to their room to wake them up. Apparently he was worried about his guitar and wp was worried about his shoes. So they went to retrieve them. I find mm story very strange. These island guys work late into the night. I just don't believe that he would sleep for only a couple of hours, then urgently leave his girlfriend. Why would he be worried about his guitar. He couldn't have known it was left behind, so why the urgency to leave his girlfriend? ??if wp thought his shoes were stolen, why would he go back for them? ?

If they were not stolen, why would he not take them back to his room, since he is so poor.

None of the night activities bothered me. But these morning activities are the strangest events. I'm not buying it was normal.

[MorristheRunt]

Have the court ever released the transcripts of the trial?

There is far too much speculation and comment, which can be validated.

If the transcripts have not been released, why not?? something to hide?

[rockingrobin]

Fab99 I agree, I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.

Greenchair through my innoccent eyes I have difficulty believing you are genuine.

It seems that you are ready to forgo the cornerstone of justice and that is innocent untill proven guitly beyond reasonable doubt. It is a fact of life that nobody can know anything for certainty and the level of proof required varies depending upon the crime . In the case of an homicide the bar is raised to a considerable level.

It should also be remembered that it is not the burden of the accused to prove their innocence , but the prosecution to prove guilt beyond a reaonable doubt.

I fail to see how you can agree with the conviction if you make the statement ' I absolutely do not agree with the rtp version of events. I also believe with out a doubt that there were others. I really don't know who held the hoe.'

Here you are casting doubt over the prosecution , it is the prosecution claim that both the defendants held the hoe ,

In an earlier post it is WP walking on the beach in your words 'cleaning up', it is the prosecution claim that both defendants are involved , are we to believe that WP was so concerned that he needed to fix things at the crime scene whilst ZL nonchantly returned to the accommadation and went to sleep

No, they did both go back to the room together. Then mm strangely left his girlfriend at 4am or there abouts and went to their room to wake them up. Apparently he was worried about his guitar and wp was worried about his shoes. So they went to retrieve them. I find mm story very strange. These island guys work late into the night. I just don't believe that he would sleep for only a couple of hours, then urgently leave his girlfriend. Why would he be worried about his guitar. He couldn't have known it was left behind, so why the urgency to leave his girlfriend? ??if wp thought his shoes were stolen, why would he go back for them? ?

If they were not stolen, why would he not take them back to his room, since he is so poor.

None of the night activities bothered me. But these morning activities are the strangest events. I'm not buying it was normal.

Greenchair MM wax a prosecution witness , and the RTP stated he was not involved, there is reports that MM made torture allegations against the RTP once he had taken refuge under the myanmar embassy.

To be accordance with the RTP scenario any events after MM returns to his accommadation is irrelevant,

However it is a pity that MM did not give testimony at the main trial , he should have been able to give some clarity

[greenchair]

Mm only alibi is that he was with his girlfriend. The police excluded him because of that. I was with my girlfriend would not pass the sniff test in the west. The defense told the public for almost a year that they went back to sleep, and that's where mm found them at 5am, everything seemed normal says mm.

The next couple of hours, going back to the beach at 4am,finding the phone, was all kept back from the public by the defense. Why did the defense feel the need to hide that information for a year. We were only let know what the defense wanted us to know to perpetuate the illusion of innocence. If you have to hide information ,there is always something that someone should not be doing.

[AleG]

See. They will fight on the technicalies of the case.

The new mantra.

Maybe they are innocent.

Maybe they are guilty.

It doesn't matter ☺☺

Protocol was not followed.

Bullshit.

Guilty as sin. even their own lawyers don't shout their innocence anymore.

Would like to see the death sentence overturned. Other than that, right where they should be.

Well many people have genuine concerns that the two Burmese blokes didn't get a fair trial. The evidence presented has been put into doubt.

From the evidence that was presented, I fail to see how their guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

And therefore they should not be where they are now.

What you should be saying is there are some evidences that in doubt.

I recognise that ,which is why I look at all evidences available to the public foremostly other evidences that are not in doubt. Those evidences the defense continue to refuse to address and would like swept under the carpet. That's why they lost, because they will not address certain evidence. The defense has tunnel vision. The judges did not.

Yes, the judges weighted all the evidence, for example when examining the matter of the torture allegations Zaw Lin claimed he was beaten nearly to death, yet the court report cites the doctor who examined after the alleged torture and the photos taken at that time to determine that he showed no signs of such thing, so no guessing how that's going (not) to fly during the appeal. The same with the DNA, again the judges didn't just focus on whether they dotted all their i's and crossed all their t's, they considered everything together, for example they pointed out that the results were produced just a few days after the murders, therefore the notion that they had been already adulterated to incriminate those two guys, caught two weeks later was, and is, absurd.

The thing is the "reasonable doubt" in this case is in fact an implausible list of amazing coincidences coupled to an elaborate conspiracy; there may be a doubt but reasonable it ain't.